C19-vaccinations - negative global impact?

[martinus]

Having read an article in which a German medical scientist talks about his
doubts as to the world-wide C19-vaccinations I asked whether that global vaccination
might in the end turn out to be a worldwide danger.
The article was less concerned about possible negative side-effects of the vaccination
for a small number of individuals. Instead, the idea was: the more we try to stop the virus by using
widespread vaccination - the more it will tend to split into an ever increasing number of mutations -
mutations that we might not be able to efficiently cope with in the end. - Though not being familiar
with medical issues the same idea had occured to me some days before reading that article.

What I got was 21/5 resulting in 25.

Still pondering about that - I'll try to comment later.

 

[legume]

interesting, thanks for some food for thought. when i was in high school (early noughties) i had this crazy biology teacher who basically made us cram a lot of material that i later found was basically 1st year of medicine stuff and already back then she also made a point of how flu shots are kinda useless since viruses mutate each year anyway to sustain themselves... i understand vaccines (like for a flu) may be useful for more vulnerable people, not in completely eradicating the disease, but in making the symptoms milder. it's been a known fact for ages.

what i don't understand however is why would this vaccine and virus work any different and so why are the young and healthy people prompted to take it. makes no sense to me. as said, i get that for the elderly or people with lower immunity, this might help ease possible symptoms of covid. i also see, as you say, a possible danger of the virus just mutating faster, though i'm no expert on that matter.

Bradford comments on this line "While everyone here at the table might know that finding an arrowhead in your meat is good luck, it is not half as well known that not finding this item until it’s too late is something less than lucky". i wonder if it's about not taking it and finding out too late that it was better to take it, though to me it seems to be rather saying what you / the article imply, that the downside to finding the arrowhead (global vaccination) may come apparent when it's too late.

i read in a friend's fb post recently "sick unless proven healthy is no less tyrannical than guilty until proven innocent", couldn't agree more. the whole language around covid is unprecedented, up until this point people who died of flu or its complications, or had weird complications after a seasonal flu (like loss of hearing, it can happen) were never said to actually die from flu and the complication part was implicit. what's going on now is changing how people view medical standards and all of a sudden covid is to blame for everything, while coronavirus itself up until last year was barely ever heard of, as it was just one of many retroviruses that caused a common cold. to me, personally (though i understand it's a new mutation, stronger, causing more complications to a common cold, like pneumonia for example) what's going on is indeed bordering on tyranny if not fascism. i also wonder if this fear around the whole issue might be causing people the strong "out of breath" reaction, a bit like a panic attack would.

nobody was ever guilt-tripping young people for carrying around a flu virus that may affect their grandparents, that wasn't affecting their own immune system, it was up to grandparents to decide if they want to take the shot or not. i find this new understanding (or lack of it) of the vaccination quite worrying.

 

[Matali]

Hello !
What I notice is the Fan Yao 25.5 : no need for a medicine, this disease will pass, funny isn'it ?
But is it an answer just for Martinus ?

 

[dfreed]

21.5 reads: Biting pemmican: finding a golden bronze.

That sound pretty darn favorable to me: that getting (or giving or receiving) the COVID-19 vaccine (biting pemmican) will have more broad benefits (golden bronzes).

Looking too at the movement / changes of the upper trigrams, we have Flame moving to Heaven: perhaps that our own protected bubbles (trigram fire is associated with turtles, crabs, animals with protective shells) can benefit from more broad (heaven-like) thinking - that it's not about just me, you, our nation, etc. getting protected (vaccinated) but that it needs to happen on a more broad (world-wide) scale to be effective.

Getting away from what the Yi says: I know nothing about viruses or how they spread or change; so, the German scientist may be right, in that the virus may - or will - mutate. That seems to be what many or most viruses do, which is why I have to get a new, different flu vaccination every year.

So yes, it is beneficial to get vaccinated; and yes, it may be that the virus still mutates and we'll need to get other vaccinations in the future. But one doesn't negate the other - and I have no idea if there's a cause-and-effect between the two (vaccinations and mutations).

There is also the very well-know, well-proven fact that there are many, many scientist, doctors, researchers, politicians, former US presidents who are blowing smoke out their asses when they talk about COVID. Too bad there's not a vaccine to stop that virus.

Best, D

 

[moss elk]

So many important things to say here.

1st: no one received 25.5.

2nd: don't form your opinions off of what you read on facebook.

3rd: young healthy people die from this disease also, even 30 y/o fitness trainers.
I'm athletic and it nearly killed me.
marybluesky, how long were you sick?
(she's under 30)

4th: Do you personally know anyone with polio? smallpox? ...etc
No? I wonder why? Whatever could it be?
Why can't I think of the word??

5th Whining about grown ups "trying to guilt" one into socially responsible behaviour is something a teenager would say.

 

[legume]

1st: no one received 25.5.

nope, indeed, but it's the fan yao to 21.5

2nd: don't form your opinions off of what you read on facebook.

1. i'll form my opinions on whatever i please, but thanks for the advice
2. the opinion i expressed is mostly based on research, 2 years of studying medicine through which i received diploma in therapy (that's how i learned my high school teacher was amazing - that's what i mean by crazy, as in crazy good), plus discussing this issue with 3 doctors i know personally who practice across 3 different countries / 2 continents.
3. my opinion is just that - an opinion.

3rd: young healthy people die from this disease also, even 30 y/o fitness trainers.

i'm aware of the fact, some of my friends in their 30s still undergo recovery after almost half a year of contraction, but i'm also considering other factors (psychosomatic or personal belief systems).

4th: Do you personally know anyone with polio? smallpox? ...etc

i understand your point, my point was about comparison to flu virus and how quickly the virus mutates (which seems to be the case for the coronaviruses as well).

 

[dfreed]

1st: no one received 25.5.

Ah yes! Thanks for point that out.

25.5 is only the Fan Yao line of 21.5, which is the line that corresponds to the changing line / hexagram, 21 to 25. It is not however, what this person 'got' in their reading. Bradford Hatcher says it may offer hints, clues, etc. about the main hexagram / or line's meaning, but is not meant to replace it. It can therefore be way more broadly interpreted or misinterpreted to the point of madness - or in this case, illness!

I am re-reading Stephen Gaskin's Monday Night Class, originally published in 1970, and based on talks he gave in the 1960's at the Family Dog auditorium in San Francisco. He covers a broad range of topics, mostly of interest to he and the other hippies who were there.

The point being: in it he talks about the 'signal-to-noise' ratio we have in human communications, and that the the more truth and authenticity there is, the lower the noise and the greater the signal.

In the Kindle version, he adds later commentary; that the current digital environment (Q-anon, Trump's 'press conferences', Foxnews, FB ... etc.) have increased the noise factor exponentially. I think that a symptom of this is that we now have a shit-load of 'experts' all sharing their expertise (a.k.a bullshit) on everything: the elections, viruses, BLM, the China Virus, etc.

Best, D

 

[moss elk]

I think that a symptom of this is that we now have a shit-load of 'experts' all sharing their expertise ...

What I'm noticing is an entire generation who do not believe experts exist!
...and therefore, all opinions are equal.
"I've got instagram! why do I need knowledge and experience"

Ok, time to replace the non-existant
"get off my lawn" sign...

but that's better than being like this child:

 

[dfreed]

1. i'll form my opinions on whatever i please

Yes, but what if our opinions don't jibe with what the Yi is saying? This person asked for an interpretation of 21.5 in relation to his question - and not what we think we know based on our opinions or experience.

I know next to nothing about medicine or how viruses - or this particular virus - spreads. Similarly, I don't know all that much about dragons, stepping on tiger's tails, or sacrificing captives .... but I still try to stick to an interpretation of the Yi.

And I did offer my expert, correct (but humble) opinion as well, but I tried to keep it separate from interpreting the casting here - at least to the extent that any of us can do that.

Best, D

 

[dfreed]

What I'm noticing is an entire generation who do not believe experts exist!

I don't see it only as being generational, or from the younger generation.

I've been having a back and forth on FB with a friend's very conservative 70+ year old brother, and he brings in the same sort of arguments. I don't object to him having a different and much more conservative outlook than I do (though I do disagree with it). What I do object to his his dishonesty about it:

I and others have laid out dozens of facts about the election, and he goes out of his way to ignore 'facts' and instead says things like: well, there's a lot we don't know; I want to see more evidence; I want Congress to open an investigation into (the obvious to him) voter fraud, ... oh, and what about the JFK assassination or J. Epstein's so-called suicide, and what about Hunter, or China, or BLM or the Intifada ....

But that's all bullshit - what he's really saying is:

"I don't agree with the facts or the truth, so I won't pay attention to them; instead I'll pay attention to a mess o' lies, unproven or disproven theories, charges, or I'll only pay attention to the 'facts' that support my prejudice beliefs in the first place .... and since I know none of this can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt - then I can stick to these lies - and offer this as moral and rational justification for them!"

And this is multi-generational.

But heck, have you or I, or anyone else here ever 're-interpreted' what the Yi says so it matches what we think it should be saying - or so it matches what we believe it should say? Qui moi?

Best, D

 

[legume]

Yes, but what if our opinions don't jibe with what the Yi is saying?

i mostly post what i see within the lines of Yi. the thoughts i shared came from 1 - the topic of the article mentioned in the question, 2 - Bradfords translation of this line: Biting into dried meat Finding yellow metal Persistence is trouble Avoid mistakes

i also said, regarding his further commentary to the line:

i wonder if it's about not taking it and finding out too late that it was better to take it, though to me it seems to be rather saying what you / the article imply, that the downside to finding the arrowhead (global vaccination) may come apparent when it's too late.

this is how i would interpret it myself - that the arrow in the meat (jab in the arm) is troublesome and requires some attention. so i allowed myself to share what other troubles i personally see with it.

What I'm noticing is an entire genetation who do not believe experts exist!

this could be a generalisation, but being, most likely, part of the generation you mean, i'd say on the contrary, i know a pulmonologist specialising in infectious diseases with +25 years of 1st line medical practice and a friend with a phd in biotechnology working in pharmaceuticals, whom i asked to explain the whole RNA thing to me. neither of them are taking the vaccine for now. i consider them responsible people, way more than myself. and i respect their advice more than those TV / mainstream media / big pharma experts.

 

[dfreed]

Biting into dried meat Finding yellow metal Persistence is trouble Avoid mistakes

Well okay then. This is one translation and you've based your interpretation / response on that. I can go with that. I looked at another translation and based my interpretation / response on that.

Because translations can be so varied (and some, in my opinion, are wrong - but not Hatcher's) I am always interested in exactly what translation someone used for their reading. In this case, the person didn't offer it, so we had to go with our own resources.

Interesting for me is Hatcher's 'matrix' translation:

​

21.5​

biting, dried meat, flesh​

finding, encountering, getting​

yellow, bronze, golden; metal;​

persistence, determination, (is) difficult, stressful​

(but) no; not, avoid; blame; wrong; (a) mistake, (an) error.​

(I'd note also that even these words - or some of then - might not accurately reflect what these characters meant at the time the Zhouyi was written.)

And even here we get back to our interpretations - and our (or my) biases and so forth - I can see this saying:

Giving (getting, etc.) the vaccine will be difficult and stressful, but in the end, this is not a mistake or an error.


Best, D

 

[legume]

Giving (getting, etc.) the vaccine will be difficult and stressful, but in the end, this is not a mistake or an error.

i understand how you'd arrive at this interpretation, however the question wasn't of personal nature, but if the global vaccination might in the end turn out to be a worldwide danger. and even in Wilhelm's translation this line seems to be noting the awareness of danger, so the (biased) way i'd interpret "no blame" here is that nobody will be blamed for making us humans into "GMO's", they were only trying to help

 

[dfreed]

however the question wasn't of personal nature, but if the global vaccination might in the end turn out to be a worldwide danger.

The query is "C19-vaccinations - negative global impact?" My interpretation applies to this - and not just to a question of a 'personal nature'. I really have no clue how you arrived at that. I feel you're grasping at straws here, so perhaps I need to say:

​

No, there will be no negative global impact. Giving (getting, etc.) the vaccine on a global scale will be difficult and stressful, but in the end, this is not a mistake or an error for the entire world to do this. ​

Does that make it global enough for you?

way i'd interpret "no blame" here is that nobody will be blamed for making us humans into "GMO's",

Yes, this is your interpretation. But it is no more global, nor necessarily more correct (nor incorrect) than what I shared. And if you think that the COVID vaccine is turning us into "genetically modified organisms" - well, I do not read that at all in the Yi's response.

By in large, these 'big picture' questions - like will Trump win?; was the election stolen?; will it be harmful to the world for everyone to get vaccinated? - are traps that I never ask, and tend to avoid. We all too easily fall back on our own biases, pre-formed ideas, accumulated information, etc. and most often make the responses say what we already believe.

And I fully acknowledge that this may be what I'm doing here, and I think it's also very likely what others are doing as well.

And the other thing that happens with these types of questions - and is happening here - is that it becomes less a discussion about interpretation or the I Ching, and more about opinions and accumulated 'facts' and 'news' - so we start to say or ask:

* "humans into GMOs"; or,
* "RNA vaccine alters DNA?" or,
* "8% of our DNA is viral in origin", or
* "the German scientist may be right," or we say we know
* "someone with +25 years of 1st line medical practice"

.... all of which may mean something (and even carry a grain of truth), but is quite - and usually - often unrelated to the Yi's response. Or as a friend of mine says: no one ever wins an argument over the internet.

Best, D

 

[Viru10]

I received my vaccine and I'm not a Bill Gates microchipped alien reptile... at least not yet. If I am, then great, I can lose limbs and regenerate them like some reptiles can. And I'm tired of logging into Windows all the time. If I had my Bill Gates microchip I could just see the computer and log on.

Although I think I'd prefer to be microchipped by Tim Apple.

like will Trump win?; was the election stolen?; will it be harmful to the world for everyone to get vaccinated? - are traps that I never ask, and tend to avoid

This is a good point. Lot of political posts on this site that are great reference for wishful thinking in interpreting casts. Many of the 2020 election casts are on this site, one can pick through and see how what you want to hear vs. reality can be completely different. Lot of emotional intensity during that time. Very difficult to see the truth of a cast through those blinders. And yes the discussions devolve into pissing matches.

Fan yao is useful, but it's not the same as the line you actually cast. In some readings it's useless. Either way, it shouldn't be your primary reading of the line. Other people's interpretations of 21.5 seem to fit here.

And I'm not sure I'd trust a German scientist. They went to war... with the WORLD. Twice!

 

[martinus]

Don't trust a German scientist?
? (A.Einstein, German: "Are you being serious?" / Between 1995 and 2020 11 Nobel prrizes went to German scientists.)
-
The I Ching, I feel, definitely gives a warning here (?).
The Eranos translation ("word by word") of the 5th line::

"Gnawing at scorched pieces of meat: Getting yellow metal.
Test: Adversity.
No mistakes."

"test" also implying "probing"
(my translation of the German edition of the Eranos text)

The Chinese word for "adversity" here is LI meaning "whetstone".
"Test" = ZHEN = 4th phase of yearly cycle: Winter, north, midnight -
testing what will perish and what will survive.

The colour "yellow" here of course refers to the element "Earth", and "Metal"
is another one of the five elements. Metal is the child of Earth i.e. is its product.

I think the main idea of WuWang (25) is "Though innocent you may experience disaster."

 

[legume]

Does that make it global enough for you?

yes, thank you also just learned the idiom "grasping at straws", that's a great one.

the GMO comment was followed by a wink, which i try to use as indication it's my attempt at humour... to clarify tho, before we get fact-checking police here, reuters debunks such claims.

 

[dfreed]

"Gnawing at scorched pieces of meat: Getting yellow metal.
Test: Adversity.
No mistakes."

I'm not a big fan of the Eranos translations, but even so ... as I and others have discussed above, interpretations of what these words mean can vary and are often based on our own pre-conceived ideas of what we think the answer should be.

So, another thoughtful (and dare I say, correct ) interpretation of this particular translation is:

* Gnawing at scorched pieces of meat: the COVID-19 virus and pandemic.
* Getting yellow metal: development of the vaccines (yellow metal being bronze, a precious and useful metal in ancient China)
* Test, Adversity: that as a species, will be tested by this pandemic and there will be (and is) much adversity, about the vaccines.
* No mistakes - but in the end there are no mistakes here - and that that giving/getting the vaccines is a good thing!

I think the main idea of WuWang (25) is "Though innocent you may experience disaster."

I have never heard of this summary of Hex. 25. I Ching author Cyrille Javary calls it "Spontaneously Reacting". Richard Rutt (my current favorite translation) titles it "Unexpected". When I look at the trigrams, I think that these both work well as titles - and perhaps as the 'main idea' - for 25:

Here we have trigram Thunder below, rising up - spontaneously - towards The Creative (upper hexagram); it's a time when new thoughts and ideas emerge, and it can be - or it lead to that which is - unexpected (which can be both good or bad, an opportunity or a challenge).

So the main idea here is "let the new, the spontaneous, the unexpected participate in the creative."

Best, D

 

[dfreed]

And I'm not sure I'd trust a German scientist. They went to war... with the WORLD. Twice!

That's a pretty weak argument. If it were at all true - which it's not - we could also say things like: "I wouldn't trust an American scientist because they were the first country to develop and use atomic weapons" ... or "I wouldn't trust the I Ching because it was written by the Chinese, who also gave us the Wuhan Virus!"

 

[Viru10]

That's a pretty weak argument.

I'd say it's a rock solid.

For example, I wouldn't trust bats since they seem to be the ones that invented coronavirus in the first place. We should ban bats from getting citizenship in the US, at least temporarily until this whole covid thing gets squared away. I don't think I'm a chiropterist by saying that.

I would on the other hand, trust comets since they gave us water. See, my argument can go in the other direction too. Nothing wrong with trusting space projectiles. I can't foresee how that would result in a negative impact.

 

[dfreed]

For example, I wouldn't trust bats since they seem to be the ones that invented coronavirus

I have to assume you are pulling our leg here! Or, if you are really serious with this bat-shit crazy 'invention' story, I think you've proven my point. And as far as comets and space projectiles, they are obviously going off in some hair-brained directions too ... but I still don't get your point, nor how anything you're saying here supports what you said about German scientist?

Or ... maybe your 'logic' is something like this: because America gave the world Rock-and-Roll, the Blues, Bluegrass, and Jazz we can therefore trust American scientists. That's the 'logic' you're using here - which means, according to your 'reasoning' that we should eat a steady diet of Big Macs, fries and Egg McMuffins because they are 'American' - and we should avoid hot dogs - or wieners - because they are of German origin. Not!

 

[Viru10]

have to assume you are pulling our leg here

 

[dfreed]

The Chinese word for "adversity" here is LI meaning "whetstone".

I think the character 'Li' can have (and did have) multiple meanings. For the Yijing, I lean towards 'stern, serious, firm, decided'.

The closing phrase of 21.5 is 'Wu Jiu' which is often translated as 'no disaster' or 'no blame'. In a more divinatory context, I've seen it translated as: 'no misfortune' or 'no curse from the ancestors,' which meant that despite all that has come before - e.g. a pandemic, tests, adversity, a vaccine - that the ancestors approved of what was happening (or what was being proposed), and this was taken as a good sign or omen.

Best, D

 

[IrfanK]

i understand your point, my point was about comparison to flu virus and how quickly the virus mutates (which seems to be the case for the coronaviruses as well).

I try to stay out of these conversations, but for some reason I'm making an exception in this case. I've got no idea how you and your high school biology teacher could reach the conclusion that a vaccination program will actually result in an increase in mutations. Almost every other source I've read says exactly the opposite. When you have a very large pool of sick people, the virus has vastly greater opportunities to mutate and spread. It's always cited as one of the many reasons why individual vaccination is not going to provide even the vaccinated individual with optimal protection -- because she or he may still be vulnerable to mutations.

New flu vaccines every year? Sure. But the flu virus mutates far more easily and quickly than Covid-19. One of the few small mercies of the covid pandemic is that while the virus can mutate, it does so quite slowly. With your two years of formal medical training, I'm sure you'll be able to follow this peer-reviewed article in a medical journal that confirms what I say:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33064680/

I'm quite happy to continue this conversation if you support your conclusions, not with readings from the Yijing, but with links to articles describing reputable research. If you can't provide them, perhaps you should think twice before posting unsubstantiated, unscientific rubbish. I do usually make a point of being polite on this forum. But you've caught me on a day when I'm particularly unsympathetic to that kind of bilge.

 

[legume]

I've got no idea how you and your high school biology teacher could reach the conclusion that a vaccination program will actually result in an increase in mutations.

this was not the conclusion, at least not that of my teacher, the only information she provided was that the virus mutates quickly and so the flu shot is not very effective (if at all useful) for young and healthy people, however, although it contains older strains, it is considered to help those with lower immunity.

as to my own understanding of the matter, i think the virus mutates as it interacts with hosts cells, so depending on individual immunoresponse new mutations will be produced whether we like it or not. the conclusion that vaccination might play part in this is indeed a wild guess, though it does look like scientists and health professionals also ask this very question, and... why wouldn't they?

here's an article on how production of vaccines might have possibly added to release of new flu strains and some papers it was based on. here's another one on same topic that mentions:

This might be a consequence of repeated vaccines that can result in lower antibody response, reducing the effectiveness of the vaccine.

and here's a paper that explores this issue further and concludes:

Current- and previous-season vaccination generated similar levels of protection, and vaccine-induced protection was greatest for individuals not vaccinated during the prior 5 years.

my personal and biased conclusion thus would be - if i'm healthy and have a strong immune system, i might as well get infected with a flu and let my immune system do its job, instead of getting a jab.

here's a generic paper on statistical predictions in preparing annual flu shots.
and here's an article on covid mutations in relation to the vax which states:

“The period between the two is a period where you have weak antibodies and can create escape mutants,” says John Moore. The U.K. has given public guidance that it’s OK to wait several months between doses of the vaccine, “and that troubles us because it’s a breeding ground for escaped mutants.”

which ends with a summary by mr Fauci, a person who, i'm sorry, but don't trust at all when it comes to overall well-being of human population.

generally speaking, flu (and now covid) vaccination is a huge business and most research on the subject requires access to those vacciness. to gain access to vaccines requires money. so i doubt there's much interest (other than from people of genuine curiosity) in exploring the ideas of self-healing, or simply boosting immunity by so-called natural immune response modifiers, like: aloe, aronia, elderberry, garlic, ginger, raspberries, bee products, cereal products, citrus fruit and probiotics.

my own conclusions are also based on the works of Bruce Lipton and his ideas on epigenetics, yet another field of study that doesn't get as much exposure and funding as that of viruses and vaccines. according to his works a lot of immune response depends on personal belief, and so if someone solely "believes" in science - science is what helps that person most. if someone believes in alternative medicine / healing through processing their emotions, they might actually have their cancer go into remission by just switching their mindset. but these are not claims i can support with any papers, as they still require further research. as much as the effects of vaccination still do:

The inclusion of studies with relatively small sample sizes and low event rates contributed to the imprecision of summary VE and OR estimates, which were based on unadjusted data.Available evidence does not support a reduction in VE with consecutive influenza vaccination, but the possibility of reduced effectiveness cannot be ruled out due to very low certainty in this evidence.

 

[legume]

If you can't provide them, perhaps you should think twice before posting unsubstantiated, unscientific rubbish.

well, this is I Ching discussion board, not a generic argument board. i believe i do have a right to express my views, as long as they're to do with the cast and as long as they don't insult anybody, please correct me if i'm wrong. and that is whether my views go along with peer-reviewed science or not.

i mentioned before that what troubles me with the whole issue of current covid situation (and this is still in line with the topic of this thread and explained earlier) is the possibility of tyranny or the rise of oppresive power in general, especially one that aims at oppressing freedom of speech, in the form of people denying en masse the right of other people to express their opinions, if they are not agreeing with the narrative that the governments and corps like facebook / youtube currently suggest (by censoring any opposing content).

so here's the best example of defending freedom of speech i can think of: chomsky on the faurisson affair (chomsky is jewish himself yet he wouldn't deny a holocaust denier the right of speaking his mind and makes a clear distinction between supporting somebody's views versus supporting somebody's right to express their views). i understand it's a slippery slope from here, so it's probably the last time i voice my opinion on the matter, however i'm grateful for being given maybe the last platform, where it's actually still possible.

 

[dfreed]

perhaps you should think twice before posting unsubstantiated, unscientific rubbish.

For me, the idea here is that we interpret this person's casting of the Yi; it's not really about us posting 'stuff' - regardless what it is. Along those lines, I am pretty darn sure that my (otherwise perfect and correct ) interpretations would never pass scientific scrutiny but I'm okay with that.

Best, D

 

[IrfanK]

i mentioned before that what troubles me with the whole issue of current covid situation (and this is still in line with the topic of this thread and explained earlier) is the possibility of tyranny or the rise of oppresive power in general, especially one that aims at oppressing freedom of speech, in the form of people denying en masse the right of other people to express their opinions, if they are not agreeing with the narrative that the governments and corps like facebook / youtube currently suggest (by censoring any opposing content).

Oh, FFS! You have every right to say what you think. And I have every right to tell you that what you are saying is a pile of crap. That's how free speech works. It works best when people present evidence to support what they are saying, instead of merely feebly claiming their constitutional rights to open their mouth to repeat some half-arsed theory derived from god knows where. I don't think you should be suppressed by law or other forms of coercive control, I just think people should be aware you are talking crap.

So, nothing on your files to support your claim that covid mutates rapidly and that a vax campaign will exacerbate that issue? Nothing reputable you can turn up with a few minutes with Google?

 

[IrfanK]

For me, the idea here is that we interpret this person's casting of the Yi; it's not really about us posting 'stuff' - regardless what it is. Along those lines, I am pretty darn sure that my (otherwise perfect and correct ) interpretations would never pass scientific scrutiny but I'm okay with that.

Best, D

Well, if I saw solid scientific evidence and my initial reading of the hexagram contradicted it, my tendency would be to go back and review my reading to see where I got it wrong, rather than doubting the evidence.

 

[moss elk]

Being blocked on facebook is not censorship, nor is it an assault on free speech. Nor is it when Hilary deletes, edits, bans & blocks here.

Being blocked on facebook is like being blocked from using someone elses megaphone. See it?
Those/this platforms do not belong to you,
someone just lets you play with them.

No one has the right to use another persons private propery.

I had to explain this same thing to my dumb uncle, on facebook.

He was mad that they kept deleting his trump-'stolen' election-propaganda and kept screaming about it and harrassing his family, using facebook.

So, I explained to him on his FB wall,
that if twitter kicks him off for violating the terms-of-service, that is exactly like
the time when he and his brother got drunk, decided it was a good idea to go to the lesbian bar to pick up women, and then they refused service to him and threw him onto the sidewalk.
He then posted that I was a liar,
and within 5 seconds private messaged me "why are you bringing up something from 30 years ago?"

m.e.,
"because it is true, relevant, and applicable"
Then I posted on his wall that if he continued the harrassment,
I would screenshot his private message so the world would know that he was 1-a liar,
and 2-his macho butt got bounced by lesbians.


He shut up.
It's been months.
Ah, the beauty and power of free speech.