Calling all former codepentents?

[kkappa]

***codependents!

Hi everyone,

I've never had anxiety attacks before, but they seem to be a daily thing now. I am as wobbly as I have ever been. Luckily I have a close friend who knows the ins and outs of anxiety so I know how to accept them instead of fight them so I can still do my work. Painfully slowly, but I get things done anyway.

This is about a man that came back into my life recently and has left me wondering as to why (other than the flakiness that is). I am keeping myself away from the eye of the storm (Yi approved) and have to wait for a solution. My weekly reading is 64.6>40 so my anxieties could easily be about being afraid of completion and success, but not knowing which way it is going to go and trying to figure out like a deranged Sherlock Holmes what it will be.

Any questions I have asked about this man seem to often have this line in the answer: 41.5>61 I can only see it relating to my fear of becoming co-dependent again, not necessarily towards him because that is why I broke up with him - afraid to lose myself again like I have in the past with people, romantic or otherwise. So instead I keep a distance and still end up feeling like I'm starving.

In that light, it makes sense that when I asked about the potential with him, I got 22.3>27. Something nice and moist here, but no need to lose yourself. I know Yi, I know, but what if I don't know how?

After having gone in circles for days now and Yi patiently holding my hand through my thoughts, I asked for real, what is best for ME? 9.5>26 Be friends... but if we haven't cleared the air, how could I be friends? He doesn't know that it's my fear of codependency driving me away from him, and as it seems right now, no opportunity to tell him that is in sight. Just sit and wait.

I can't keep sitting in this not knowing. I am strong, but not almighty. The full moon is also coming tomorrow and I knew it well in advance that this is going to be a crazy rocky time for me. The outcome of the full moon for me (I know, it sounds like a strange question, but it's worked in the past) will be 53.1.3.5>27

I know these are a lot of hexes and a lot of questions and a lot of thoughts. I know, I know, I know, but please have mercy. What is the bigger picture here? Please help.

K

 

[anemos]

what is best for ME? 9.5>26 Be friends...

K

Not sure if its the only way to read this line. From here , seems to describe a way of relating where interdependence is acknowledged -without implying a lack of independence- and how the two parties can benefit from it. Past experiences (26) , good or not that good, are come into and influence. I recall seeing somewhere the image of 26 as a close fιst. There is some power in there and needs some taming to use it appropriately.

Have you consider telling him your fears ? not saying to do it , don't know if he will respect it but if you share it , do you think he will help you to put together the limits ?

When it comes on how to reduce that co-dependency, imo, it can't happen in a vacuum and it needs a "trial & error" approach, probably in a environment that is secure and allows you to say some no's and support you in that effort. Where you don't have to be strong or "cooool", where you can share your difficulties.

Good luck with the full moon

 

[kkappa]

Not sure if its the only way to read this line. From here , seems to describe a way of relating where interdependence is acknowledged -without implying a lack of independence- and how the two parties can benefit from it. Past experiences (26) , good or not that good, are come into and influence. I recall seeing somewhere the image of 26 as a close fιst. There is some power in there and needs some taming to use it appropriately.

Have you consider telling him your fears ? not saying to do it , don't know if he will respect it but if you share it , do you think he will help you to put together the limits ?

When it comes on how to reduce that co-dependency, imo, it can't happen in a vacuum and it needs a "trial & error" approach, probably in a environment that is secure and allows you to say some no's and support you in that effort. Where you don't have to be strong or "cooool", where you can share your difficulties.

Good luck with the full moon

Hi anemos,

I have not only considered to tell him, but that is also the plan. He will never understand me if he doesn't know what's up with me. I mean, I have come at least this far that showing that I haven't got it all figured out is not the worst thing in the world, and like most people, I have my stuff to work through, whether I like it or not.

I appreciate your comment on needing to get over codependence by trial and error. I do feel like that's what I've been doing - pushing towards and pulling from people in an awkward dance. For some reason I haven't considered that this is exactly the way to go. I guess you don't just jump from codependence to perfect interdependence... [insert lightbulb going on]

He is definitely safe to tell these things to, he is a very loving guy when he is not caught up in his work (which I don't mind btw), it's another matter completely whether he wants in on this ride. I mean, he has issues too, sure, but I don't know... It's just seems too unreal that he would want back in, he was so unsure about everything, incl. me, 6 months ago, how could he possibly know whether he wants me in his life suddenly?

 

[newlife123]

I've had bad anxiety attacks because of this kind of stuff. You are having post traumatic stress over things that happened. Going back to this guy will make the eventual break up much much worse and your panic attacks will become dangerous. It it were me I would completely end all contact now.

 

[kkappa]

I've had bad anxiety attacks because of this kind of stuff. You are having post traumatic stress over things that happened. Going back to this guy will make the eventual break up much much worse and your panic attacks will become dangerous. It it were me I would completely end all contact now.

Sorry to hear of your experience, I know now how debilitationg it can be at its worst. Well, for now I am keeping away, but other than that - I don't like to run away from bad feelings. I want to sit with them and get to know them, so I can understand what's up and down. And sometimes, on a more general level, meetingthe enemy takes the power they have over you away.

 

[anemos]

I appreciate your comment on needing to get over codependence by trial and error. I do feel like that's what I've been doing - pushing towards and pulling from people in an awkward dance. For some reason I haven't considered that this is exactly the way to go. I guess you don't just jump from codependence to perfect interdependence... [insert lightbulb going on]

You are welcome, Kappa ,

Just wanted to clarify that when i said "trial & error" was having in mind hex 26 and the taming of that power that pushes the automatic pilot button.

All the best

 

[TwoGeese]

I don't like to run away from bad feelings. I want to sit with them and get to know them, so I can understand what's up and down. And sometimes, on a more general level, meetingthe enemy takes the power they have over you away.

I can't help you much with the hex's I just don't feel confident enough with the Yi to help someone else just yet but I did want to say that this idea, imho, is the best for you. I don't believe running from anything is a good idea ( well no, that's not true. Defiantly run from someone welding a knife at you. )
In all seriousness be with where you are- no matter how much it may suck. If this guy is supportive and loving share what you are comfortable at whatever pace you are comfortable sharing it. He came back- he must not be to afraid of you. I think, as someone who is very proud of my strength, it is very hard to ask for help or be vulnerable with others sometimes even myself. But I also know that it is not fair on my part to decide for someone else how much of my pain they can handle. Allow him, if he is willing, to be there for you. (this is something I must remind myself of all the time.)
Hugs to you during your struggle.
Kim

 

[newlife123]

Sorry to hear of your experience, I know now how debilitationg it can be at its worst. Well, for now I am keeping away, but other than that - I don't like to run away from bad feelings. I want to sit with them and get to know them, so I can understand what's up and down. And sometimes, on a more general level, meetingthe enemy takes the power they have over you away.

I understand your thoughts. but in my opinion the "enemy" is a person with a sick mind. For me I would rather avoid participating in things that don't serve me. I prefer to move on to things that empower me. So what makes more sense? for you to get back with this guy and spend 3 or 4 years not getting it to work and then having to break up and start again from scratch or just hold out for another few months or year and get someone who has lasting power?

 

[psychonaut613]

Well, as someone who formerly dated someone with borderline personality disorder, I can tell you what I'm doing, and by the way dating someone with bpd is a very codependent thing to do, you simply can't get into a relationship like this without codependency and approval addiction. I have been just making friends with women again and it's scary.
I'll tell you what I've been doing though. I'm so OCD sometimes I can't really stop the chatter so I just keep reminding myself, "No one is responsible for my self-esteem but me", "I don't need anything from [this person or that person]", "whatever happens I will be able to handle it. I will be ok." (positive affirmations) and it's slowly sinking in. knowing something logically / intellectually and internalizing-- two different things. Panic attacks and anxiety are caused by core beliefs that have taken root over time, usually from childhood. and if you start changing things for the better, the thoughts get worse for a time. cognitive dissonance. But, with consistent effort, guess who wins?

And I'm starting to enjoy people more bc of the idea they add to my happiness, not create it :bows:

 

[kkappa]

newlife123 - I agree with you in general, my father is deeply bipolar and from him I knew to stay away long before I even understood what bipolar is, but not in this case, I already said he is a loving guy, and not someone with a sick mind. he is an elephant in a porcelain shop who doesn't think his actions through once he sets his mind to something, and that is his challenge in life. my reactions have not been as a direct result to his emails, he is being very sweet, discreet and holding back, it's what I have been able to create in my own head from thinking too much about my fear of getting close. this is about me, and not him. I hope this makes sense

which brings me to psychonaut613 - you have no idea what relief I felt when you wrote about that even making friends is scary. I can't say that it's scary with men for me per se, but there is some awkwardness there. well, that is generally also normal, but knowing what a joker I like to be in social settings, these one-on-one moments make me uneasy on some deeper level, like I don't trust myself or the other person to have my best interests in mind. I need to get to the bottom of this, there is something more here I need to deal with. I love your affirmations, I will use them - they are dead on!

kimbenes7, that's exactly it, no? there is strength in vulnerability, but my god is it hard to admit to someone. but the beauty is that once you admit it to someone, you can see their true colors - do they really care or not? in any case I don't want him to end up being a co-dependent, all I need is for him to understand why I am awkward in some situations, and not that I want him to solve my issues. I am perfectly capable of doing that by my own means (and with the help of qualified people).

But I will leave this to rest now. I am not seeking him out and he can come and go as he pleases. As of right now, he has no obligations towards me and neither do I, but my coolness has definitely gotten the message through - "think about your actions, there's no more playing second fiddle with me". if it's worth anything, that's 10x more strength of character in me towards him now than back then, and maybe that's what I'm worried of losing? I need a treadmill or a workout machine for training my strength of character

You people are so beautiful for sharing your stories with me. It means the world to me to know that I am not alone in being a messy human being

Love and light!
K

 

[kkappa]

newlife123 - I agree with you in general, my father is deeply bipolar and from him I knew to stay away long before I even understood what bipolar is, but not in this case, I already said he is a loving guy, and not someone with a sick mind. he is an elephant in a porcelain shop who doesn't think his actions through once he sets his mind to something, and that is his challenge in life. my reactions have not been as a direct result to his emails, he is being very sweet, discreet and holding back, it's what I have been able to create in my own head from thinking too much about my fear of getting close. this is about me, and not him. I hope this makes sense

which brings me to psychonaut613 - you have no idea what relief I felt when you wrote about that even making friends is scary. I can't say that it's scary with men for me per se, but there is some awkwardness there. well, that is generally also normal, but knowing what a joker I like to be in social settings, these one-on-one moments make me uneasy on some deeper level, like I don't trust myself or the other person to have my best interests in mind. I need to get to the bottom of this, there is something more here I need to deal with. I love your affirmations, I will use them - they are dead on!

kimbenes7, that's exactly it, no? there is strength in vulnerability, but my god is it hard to admit to someone. but the beauty is that once you admit it to someone, you can see their true colors - do they really care or not? in any case I don't want him to end up being a co-dependent, all I need is for him to understand why I am awkward in some situations, and not that I want him to solve my issues. I am perfectly capable of doing that by my own means (and with the help of qualified people).

But I will leave this to rest now. I am not seeking him out and he can come and go as he pleases. As of right now, he has no obligations towards me and neither do I, but my coolness has definitely gotten the message through - "think about your actions, there's no more playing second fiddle with me". if it's worth anything, that's 10x more strength of character in me towards him now than back then, and maybe that's what I'm worried of losing? I need a treadmill or a workout machine for training my strength of character

You people are so beautiful for sharing your stories with me. It means the world to me to know that I am not alone in being a messy human being

Love and light!
K

 

[psychonaut613]

... knowing what a joker I like to be in social settings, these one-on-one moments make me uneasy on some deeper level, like I don't trust myself or the other person to have my best interests in mind. I need to get to the bottom of this, there is something more here I need to deal with. I love your affirmations, I will use them - they are dead on!

kimbenes7, that's exactly it, no? there is strength in vulnerability, but my god is it hard to admit to someone. but the beauty is that once you admit it to someone, you can see their true colors - do they really care or not?
K

Sounds like we are on a similar path. I would submit that it is likely that, like me, your inability to trust other people to have your best interest comes from childhood experiences where your needs weren't met. As young children, we have no choice if these need aren't met, we are absolutely dependent on other people and are forced to suffer and bc we are children, we learn ineffective ways of trying so hard to have our needs met, and all we ever had to do as adults was make our needs known. This is the most important thing I have learned in the last few months, being assertive about my needs. We take care of our own needs and ask other people to take care of our needs first, then give to others from the overflow. For example, asking someone how they feel about you is less needy than telling them how you feel about them expecting a positive answer or expecting someone to feel positive about you bc you are nice to them.

 

[kkappa]

Sounds like we are on a similar path. I would submit that it is likely that, like me, your inability to trust other people to have your best interest comes from childhood experiences where your needs weren't met. As young children, we have no choice if these need aren't met, we are absolutely dependent on other people and are forced to suffer and bc we are children, we learn ineffective ways of trying so hard to have our needs met, and all we ever had to do as adults was make our needs known. This is the most important thing I have learned in the last few months, being assertive about my needs. We take care of our own needs and ask other people to take care of our needs first, then give to others from the overflow. For example, asking someone how they feel about you is less needy than telling them how you feel about them expecting a positive answer or expecting someone to feel positive about you bc you are nice to them.

Psychonaut613, this is very timely! Yes, of course it stems from my childhood, I only just realised the pattern shortly after I broke up with this guy. Before that I had left behind everyone I had been codependent with and realised I need to learn about assertiveness. My parents did leave me emotionally starving, but what did they know? All I can do now is make better choices for myself. Thank you for sharing, this is incredibely well-timed advice.

Speaking of - I made an honest confession to the man in question yesterday, laid it all out, and instead of being needy, I was assertive. It takes two to **** something good up, so it's up to him to accept his side of the mess. Last night we were at 49.1.3>31, and today at 5.1.2.4>31

Hold on tight, K, this is going to be a bumpy ride. And as per the anxiety attacks - they stopped as this thread here kind of died away. The affirmations were a huge help too, though I had to add one: "I am not in danger, my life is not in danger!" Now I just feel peace. If he can accept me like this, we might just stand a chance in hell.

 

[wind]

Kappa, my friend... as soon as I read your initial post on this thread, my mind INSTANTLY screamed "thyroid" and the need to tell you was overwhelming.

Go get your thyroid checked for hypothyroidism. Untreated, it is very much connected with panic attacks. Get your T4 and TSH levels checked. Not to cause you any worry, but I felt this very strongly.

Hope all works out for you amd this fellow.