Can I count on him? 35 changes to 4

[padma]

So I am preparing to tell a guy I have been dating for about one year, to move in with me.
In the house, still lives another guy (we sleep in separate rooms and are like friends), and I want to ask him to leave.
My question was: If I do make the move, can I count on my boyfriend to support me in the process? Got 35, lines 2 and 4 changing to hex 4.
Any suggestions will be appreciated - thanks

 

[Freedda]

So, from how you described it, you have a few secrets you're keeping: you haven't told your boyfriend you want him to move in, and you haven't told your friend that you're going to kick hin out of his home. Is that about it? And is this what you want support for?

I think the YI is suggesting that maybe you're a bit far along in the process to have all these secrets. And that maybe a bit of communication and compassion would be the kind of support you need here. Or, instead, you have the option of sneaking around like a 'squirrely rodent.' (Squirrely in American slang meaning sneaky, erratic, and not to be trusted.)

You do have some choices here.

 

[moss elk]

are like friends

Have you stopped having sex with him yet, squirrelly rodent?

35.4 is a warning about sneaking around, it is dangerous. When someome has a certain belief, say trust in another person, and that person proves duplicitous, someone could react very badly (for you).

 

[rosada]

If it’s your home you certainly have the right to ask your tenant to leave, provided you give him adequate notice.
I am unclear what you mean by your boyfriend supporting you. Do you mean paying rent? Or just emotional support? Hex 4 makes me think there are many considerations that still need to be taken into account. You might start off happily and then realize you had made some assumptions that weren’t necessarily true. 35.4 could be a warning that you should make your intentions and expectations clear.

 

[moss elk]

If it’s your home you certainly have the right to ask your tenant to leave

Roasada, I'm not sure this is a tenant,
and not sure that she has given us an accurate portayal of the dynamics going on.

 

[equinox]

@Moss

"Rosada, I'm not sure this is a tenant,
and not sure that she has given us an accurate portayal of the dynamics going on."

For me it sounds like this could well be a shared flat situation, why not?
Maybe she isn't obliged to the roommate beyond a shared flat situation, maybe he is a 'just' a casual flat mate. What you and Fredda suggest is quite a bit speculative.

@padm

You asked if he would support you in this wish, if you can count on him. 35.2 can indicate a (maybe temporary) rejection. In this context, 35.4 could also point to the attitude of your boyfriend, who may not want to position himself clearly in this matter.

So at least if I assume that the I-Ching answers your question directly and without detours, I wouldn't think that you can count in him at this matter-- at least at the moment.

But a bit more information would be helpful. What do you think of your result?

 

[equinox]

@padma, not padma. Sorry for the misspelling, the edit function doesn't work right now.

 

[equinox]

... and even he the flatmate is padmas ex and they still didn't manage to fully separate it is not appropriate to ask such private questions like if they still have sex and call her 'little mouse' in the same sentence.

 

[equinox]

Another thought: 35.4 could also mean that you are at risk to face rejection/a setback (35.2) because you yourself don't pursue a clear course.

 

[moss elk]

For me it sounds like this could well be a shared flat situation, why not?
Maybe she isn't obliged to the roommate beyond a shared flat situation, maybe he is a 'just' a casual flat mate. What you and Fredda suggest is quite a bit speculative.

Sure it is speculative.
That's what we do in the dark.
But, It was speculation based on thoughts and feelings that arise from her words, (something isn't right here) and from the reading itself.

I will go back and edit the offending phrase, and replace it with Yi's words.
thanks.

Hopefully she will come back and clear up any confusion and doubts.

 

[padma]

FU

 

[moss elk]

I sensed something wasn't right here.
And being called out on the duplicity caused this reaction.

 

[equinox]

I sensed something wasn't right here.
And being called out on the duplicity caused this reaction.

I don't think so. For me it is a comprehensible reaction to humiliating accusations and intrusive questions.

 

[Trojina]

I don't know, if someone writes so little and then says 'FU' and leaves to people who ask questions because the situation they have presented isn't clear maybe they just aren't worth our time ?

She can't be very much interested in the I Ching if she leaves because of that.

Amuses me how people think that leaving is some kind of punishment for us but it's them who loses. I think it's silly to leave because people didn't have enough information.

I can't see there was any duplicity necessarily but she could have been a lot clearer .

I don't think line 4 is always to do with bad sneakiness it can mean the best way through is to be indirect though it wouldn't have worked with this scenario by the look of it.

 

[equinox]

I don't know, if someone writes so little and then says 'FU' and leaves to people who ask questions because the situation they have presented isn't clear maybe they just aren't worth our time ?

She can't be very much interested in the I Ching if she leaves because of that.

It may be that she did not give her own interpretation, but at least she clearly presented the circumstances:
She made clear that the current flatmate is like a friend and they sleep separately. This information was ignored, doubted and followed up by questions about sex (how intrusive) and it was assumed that she was playing secret games. I would also feel offended.

I don't know how you come to the conclusion that an emotional response to the implicit, misogynist accusation of being dishonest and slutty is synonymous with a lack of interest in I-Ching.

 

[moss elk]

No, not misogynistic.
I would have said exactly the same if it were a male who wrote what she wrote. (well, actually I would have been harsher with a male)

No, I didn't assume she was playing dishonest games, Yi did with 35.4.


Nothing she wrote was ignored.
I paid attention to everything she wrote, and what she did not write as well. The inclusion of the word "like' a friend, displayed murkiness.
Is he flatmate a friend?
no, because you don't do that to friends.
Is the flatemate likely a casual lover,
that she wasn't being honest with?
Yes I believe so.

Is the querant mature?
No, because that was a childish reaction.

 

[equinox]

No, I didn't assume she was playing dishonest games, Yi did with 35.4.

I often received 35.4 without being dishonest in any way. Personally 35.4 meant for me often enough not to be able/ not willing to follow a clear course. And what that means in particular can be very diverse.

 

[Trojina]

I don't know how you come to the conclusion that an emotional response to the implicit, misogynist accusation of being dishonest and slutty is synonymous with a lack of interest in I-Ching.

I haven't said anything like that . Leaving at that point would seem to indicate a lack of interest in Yi because there were other answers here she could have responded to plus I don't think she was called dishonest or slutty all that happened was Moss doubted her description of the situation.

You have decided she left because of misogyny but unless she tells us that we don't actually know.

My impression was more 'this is too much work I'm going' because let's face it a lot of passers by just want a fix, a free reading and if they don't get what they want they go.

Another disadvantage to actually leaving by deleting the account (a completely pointless act) is she can't actually say why she left, she just says 'FU' to everyone. If she won't say why she left how do we know ?

She must have read this forum already and seen how answers vary...so no I have no sympathy for account deleters it's just a flounce as far as I'm concerned, a pointless act, doesn't impact on anything at all.

 

[Trojina]

So I am preparing to tell a guy I have been dating for about one year, to move in with me.
In the house, still lives another guy (we sleep in separate rooms and are like friends), and I want to ask him to leave.
My question was: If I do make the move, can I count on my boyfriend to support me in the process? Got 35, lines 2 and 4 changing to hex 4.
Any suggestions will be appreciated - thanks

This doesn't actually make much sense to me and needs lots of questions answered to make sense of it.

1. Why would she worry about telling guy in house to leave if he is just a tenant ?

2. What kind of support is she talking about from the boyfriend ? Why does she need the boyfriend's support in order to tell the other guy to go. it does sound a bit like she wants her boyfriend to help her eject the guy who is living there because she has a connection with the guy living there.




It doesn't make sense and if people cannot be bothered to explain what they mean nor even attempt their own interpretation and then leave I can't weep over it frankly.

Certainly no point trying to guess why she left, she should have stayed if she wanted to make that clear.

 

[equinox]

Why would she worry about telling guy in house to leave if he is just a tenant?

Maybe because he lives there and so it's also about his home and thus about his existence? Nobody wants to move out of their home involuntarily.

2.What kind of support is she talking about from the boyfriend ? Why does she need the boyfriend's support in order to tell the other guy to go. it does sound a bit like she wants her boyfriend to help her eject the guy who is living there because she has a connection with the guy living there.

Maybe, we'll never know. Even if it is, there is no reason to ask a woman "Do you still have sex, you squirrelish rodent", even if the I-Ching itself uses the rodent metaphor. There is something obscene about it and I would be quite angry if someone would talk to me like that.

And don't forget that she made it clear from the beginning that she doesn't share her sleeping room with the flatmate. Therefore she was implicitly accused of lying here with the "do you still have sex" questions.

 

[moss elk]

Even if it is, there is no reason to ask a woman "Do you still have sex, you squirrelish rodent", even if the I-Ching itself uses the rodent metaphor.

There was a reason I asked it.

The post was murky.
I've seen a great deal of murk in my life. and know that muddiness is often because of something that dwells in the pond.
I asked it to draw the truth out.
The truth came out ugly.
The pond held a gar, not a goldfish.

There is something obscene about it and I would be quite angry if someone would talk to me like that.

Ah, but if you were the one being addressed, wouldn't you say something like, "hey! that is not true, and I am offended. Here is the truth... and you should apologize."
To which, I would apologize if I had made such a mistake.

And don't forget that she made it clear from the beginning that she doesn't share her sleeping room with the flatmate.

Yes, She made that clear.
However, having sex and sleeping in the same room have nothing to do with each other. The fact that she mentioned the sleeping quarters at all is one of several things that roused my suspicions.

 

[Trojina]

Maybe because he lives there and so it's also about his home and thus about his existence? Nobody wants to move out of their home involuntarily.

Maybe. Anyway if he's a tenant he'll have rights as a tenant regarding how much notice she needs to give him.

Maybe, we'll never know. Even if it is, there is no reason to ask a woman "Do you still have sex, you squirrelish rodent", even if the I-Ching itself uses the rodent metaphor. There is something obscene about it and I would be quite angry if someone would talk to me like that.

I think it might be a case of people perceiving that differently according to their own language/culture. I agree it sounds cheeky but to me it sounds more deliberately devilish/humorous that's how I 'hear' it . I hear it along the lines of 'do you still have sex with him you little devil ' I don't hear it as being obscene, I suppose it is quite intrusive and it does assume she is having a sexual relationship with the friend but something about the way it is written does suggest this friend has been more than a friend, to my ear at least. But it's not certain that's why he asked her.

I'm having a deja vu - I reckon we talked about this exact same situation before on a thread but were more on the same wavelength about it

And don't forget that she made it clear from the beginning that she doesn't share her sleeping room with the flatmate. Therefore she was implicitly accused of lying here with the "do you still have sex" questions.

Yes, but you know how you can hear things behind what is said, I could hear too what Moss heard because why would she make a point of him sleeping in another room and being a friend ? Surely if he was a tenant she would call him a tenant, no need to say where he is sleeping. I don't know but by making a point in her short post about him sleeping in another room really suggests they've had sexual relations but don't now/or it was casual. I say that from what she wrote nothing to do with Yi, I don't believe in convicting people via Yi at all.

This difference in how we hear Moss in this thread may be to do with language difference ? I don't know.

We don't know at all what his relation to her was and never will unless she returns under another name which is quite likely.

 

[moss elk]

I agree it sounds cheeky

I started with the cheeky and affectionate: little mouse.

Upon objection. I edited it to Squirrelly Rodent.

I see no reason to have remorse here.

 

[rosada]

A human being came to us with a problem and asked for our help. She left feeling disrespected and probably won’t return and may even abandon her study of the I Ching. I see plenty of reason to have remorse.

 

[Trojina]

A human being came to us with a problem and asked for our help. She left feeling disrespected and probably won’t return and may even abandon her study of the I Ching. I see plenty of reason to have remorse.

I think that's taking it a bit far and if someone abandons their work with Yi because of that then they were never much drawn to it to begin with.

Anyway if it's such a big problem report it -

All I see is a comment that was a little off base but not the worse thing in the world.


Also if the woman herself couldn't be bothered to say what the problem was all we are doing is guessing. What a waste of time.

She put zero effort in and Moss Elk put more effort in the reading than she did so why is the passer by, here just to take, only to take always the poor little victim. GooD Grief this is ridiculous !

All he said was 'are you still having sex' what's the big deal with that - and she didn't even say that's why she deleted her account so you are assuming it's to do with what Moss said but the 'FU' may be aimed at someone else. Who knows , who cares, I know I don't.

 

[rosada]

I wonder if new posters are aware they have the option to report posts they find objectionable? It’s the little triangle button on the grey bar beneath our postings folks. No need to quit Clarity!

 

[Trojina]

I wonder if new posters are aware they have the option to report posts they find objectionable? It’s the little triangle button on the grey bar beneath our postings folks. No need to quit Clarity!

She already did quit Clarity, you can see that by looking at the name, where it says 'guest' it means she deleted her account.

People are always deleting their accounts when they get miffed, and if that is the level of interest they have then Goodbye and Good riddance who cares I know I don't, they are just playing the martyr - rather than just use the report button if they'd bothered to read the rules or simply say they don't like what was said. To just say 'FU' is pretty silly.

 

[Liselle]

Moss Elk, I have to say I agree with Equinox here. Edited: And Rosada.

This isn't the first time you've jumped very quickly to negative judgements about someone, like here in this recent thread where you assumed Cjisacat was only interested in maintaining her social status.
https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?27586-How-to-start-a-discussion-about-leaving

It doesn't mean you'll always be wrong, of course! But to form personal judgements about someone merely on the basis of a few sentences and the fact that she received 35.4?

35.4 can mean very neutral things, such as someone not seeing the big picture.

I think you had a good point about the secrets - my own immediate reaction to what Padma presented was that maybe she had things in the wrong order, that maybe she should find out how her boyfriend feels about moving in, before asking her housemate to leave. If her boyfriend doesn't want to live together quite yet, then she finds herself without a roommate at all.

 

[Trojina]

It isn't appropriate really to be jumping on Moss Elk like this. If you have a problem with him you should report it. You aren't meant to be going to threads just to attack a person - maybe read the rules ? The rules are there for a reason - all this piling in with grievances in a public thread is not the way to do it !

This is totally out of line ! Use the report button that is what it is for.

 

[Liselle]

I just did report it.

You're right, we should have gone to the Moderation forum. Although this conversation had gone on a while before me.