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Can the Yi speak of the future?

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bruce

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See, to my thinking, and not saying it's right, even a self proclaimed atheist must believe in God, a god, Higher Self - whatever you wish to call it, before they can let go and "trust" that their fate is safe. Otherwise it would be like turning control of a jet plane over to a 6 year old. Although it?s possible to see a 6 year old as God, too.
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elizabeth

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OH my God.




Man of stone. You have no idea, no idea how that fits. The rest of the wording I dont know...but "man of stone", "strong and invulnerable"...that's him. Totally closed off to the possibility of emotional attachment...it fits. It so fits. And I think he thinks it is manly. I bet. I bet.


No, I had seen "LiSe" on several threads here and kept wondering "who is she". Ha :) now I know. I have fallen onto that site from google searches myself...very handy.

Wait. Post thought. Maybe I just want it to fit. No human being is that way. Maybe he will melt into warmth and emotional proximity for the right girl (just never has in 32 years)...Oy.
 

elizabeth

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OH my God.




Man of stone. You have no idea, no idea how that fits. The rest of the wording I dont know...but "man of stone", "strong and invulnerable"...that's him. Totally closed off to the possibility of emotional attachment...it fits. It so fits. And I think he thinks it is manly. I bet. I bet.


No, I had seen "LiSe" on several threads here and kept wondering "who is she". Ha :) now I know. I have fallen onto that site from google searches myself...very handy.

Wait. Post thought. Maybe I just want it to fit. No human being is that way. Maybe he will melt into warmth and emotional proximity for the right girl (just never has in 32 years)...Oy.

Bruce: i dont want to be great and lonely. I want desperately to be meek, normal and not lonely!
 

elizabeth

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Sorry about the duplicate posts. I wish I could delete the first one but .. i can't!

In all my thinking today, I asked the Yi to tell me why i should not have any hope about this man.

It gave me Hex 1. Creative, twice unchanging:

"When an individual draws this oracle, it means that success will come to him from the primal depths of the universe and that everything depends upon his seeking his happiness and that of others in one way only, that is, by perseverance in what is right. (...) each step attained forthwith becomes a preparation for the next. Time is no longer a hindrance but the means of making actual what is potential."

I would interpret this as: pursuing him or hoping for him is not "what is right" and therefore I should not have hope.

I then asked if i am on the correct path with my work and my writing. It gave me 2. Receptive. Unchanging twice.

THE RECEPTIVE brings about sublime success,
Furthering through the perseverance of a mare.
If the superior man undertakes something and tries to lead,
He goes astray;
But if he follows, he finds guidance.
It is favorable to find friends in the west and south,
To forego friends in the east and north.
Quiet perseverance brings good fortune.

Soo....
I should be receptive to creativity in my work? I should be receptive to different areas of work? I should not try to lead but let my work lead me? Other ideas?
 

heylise

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Hex. 1 Heaven cannot be influenced. The dragon is the bringer of rain, but nobody can tell him when to rain or not, and nobody knows when the rain will come. Or not.

Hex.2 Earth is fertility, she gives it to all creatures without any distinction. That is why she can make this planet such a rich place. Seems like a great answer for your work.

LiSe
 

elizabeth

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LiSe, nice to meet you online :) And THANK YOU for the interpretation!

Hm okay so: Heaven cannot be influenced, and we dont know what is in its plan, therefore hope is somewhat pointless. makes sense.

I guess hex 2 is saying "yes, you're on the right path." Funny it often feels like workwise I'm stagnating too.
 

heylise

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Hi!
Happy that it makes sense...
Might be that at the moments when it feels you are stagnating, you are not on the "hex.2-path".

LiSe
 
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bruce

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I wonder if Yi answered 'your hope about this man' or 'how to make hope'? If it answered the latter question, then it's saying to be creative in the task, to think outside the proverbial box, to engage your imagination.

Not meaning to go off on a psychology trip here, but isn?t it interesting that you find affinity to a man of stone, or possibly to men of stone? The ones who are emotionally distant?
 

jte

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Elizabeth, getting readings like these, I'd recommend you pause, take a step back for a while and let them sink in. Maybe read through them a few times, let them gel, keeping the questions you asked in mind.

One thing I'm seeing -

"No job can replace the fulfillment i seek from a loving relationship ... I had neither dream nor relationship before I left my home country and now I have one of the two. Now...I find that having a life partner is a goal.

People have said to do what makes you happy... I'm pursuing my dream already, and that isn't enough."

Remember, 1 and 2, heaven and earth are necessary complements to each other, like Yin and Yang. So it sounds to me, from what you wrote above, like Yi is acknowledging that a fulfilling relationship is the missing, complementary piece to your life (at least the way you currently perceive/experience it - in your current mindset).

That's one insight, I suspect you'll find more if you let the answers gestate in your mind for a while...

I still don't think there's any guarantee you'll get exactly what you want out of this (as Brad is fond of saying "Perfect sincerity is no guarantee of success") but these readings would make me take serious notice.

- Jeff
 

jte

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Hi, Bruce :)

"Yas got mes pondering...

If someone didn't believe in a universal intelligence or godly tugging, who or what would they be letting go to, in order to enjoy a better outcome by letting go? "

I see your point + as you're aware, I have my own reasons for believing in a higher power of some sort. But, there's all sorts of things that people might believe in.

A higher self is one as folks pointed out. Spirits/ghosts/angels/gods, not necessarily being God (capital G) is another.

Maybe for some a poorly understood, intuitive part of our brain that "knows" more than our conscious self. (I think Calumet, who used to post here, had a view similar to this.)

Perhaps for some, just faith in the Yi as a system - maybe the ancients found a way to understand/capture causality in a way that is hard for us to understand now. Perhaps physical causality, or, in the case in point (58.1.2) a social/emotional/spiritual intelligence (i.e., something like: when people are content in and of themselves, positive things tend to happen).

So, while your thoughts agree fairly well with my personal view, there's always alternative possibilities.

- Jeff
 

elizabeth

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Jeff, you're right, I do tend to rush ahead. It's just, the mind..wants to know and there are so many questions! I'm trying to let this all sink in though. The idea that a relationship is the missing piece for me isn't news in fact. I've wanted one for over 2 years now and it isn't happening. *WHY* it isnt happening is my question and task to figure out.

Bruce - men of stone. I would add, experts at deception. I had two revelations last night unrelated. I asked the Yi what this man is looking for in a woman. It gave me Arousing Thunder/Shock! with the 3rd line changing and then "turning point/return". (I have the reading somewhere, just not handy right now). I took that to mean he is looking for the lightening bolt, lovestruck, in order to stay with a girl.

However.

Last night a mutual acquaintance phoned me and to make a long story short gave me information that proves this man is emotionally empty. He is now 32 and has had tons of beautiful, beautiful girlfriends. THe acquaintance told me that four years ago he had a girl that looked almost identical to me and had the same name even! They were together for a while and she finally asked why dont we move in together -- he out of his parents' house, and she out of hers. In the country i'm living in,common law marriages by default are de rigeur. Many couples live together and only register as marriage much later. She wasnt asking for marriage, just to live together. He said no and broke it off. I have other proof but the long story short is he puts on a front of being a "good guy" but all he is after is the quick fix. He doesnt want an emotional relationship with a woman, he has never had one. Once the girls figure this out and clue in, it is usually too late -- they're attached and he moves on.

Luckily for some strange reason he "respected me" too much to use me in the same way. It was eery how i got thunder/shock in the reading last night and then this friend phoned with more shocking news. I see this man in a completely different light now. But my fear is that he is going to keep to his word. He said on our very first meeting that he thinks it is best if marriages aren't planned, if the girl simply gets pregnant and then the couple gets married. My moral filter said to me "not ideal but i guess it can be done that way", assuming the couple is together out of love in the first place.

My assumption won't fly here though, as this guy doesnt pair up with anyone out of love! And what happens when protection fails and the girl he doesnt love gets pregnant and wants a husband? It makes me sick to be watching this happen and not be able to do anything to prevent him from hurting other women or messing up their lives (as well as his own). Maybe that is going to be his bad karma for not being able to feel anything emotionally, for using these women, he will be condemned to life without emotional depth?

Bruce, I recounted this to address your point: he appeared for the first three months to me to be the ideal guy: flowers, candy, dates, utterly respectful, the EPITOMY of politeness and respect. But withdrawn... Its part of the plan, and it works, unfortunately. I was fooled but spared. Others wont be...
 
B

bruce

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Jeff, whew.. I thought I left it open enough to cover alternatives.

Elizabeth, let's see... He's 32, living with his parents, doesn't want to commit himself to a relationship, proposes marriage out of wedlock (if that's the way the cookie crumbles) - he's every woman's dream!
mischief.gif
Maybe it goes to show that flowers and candy and being polite are not evidence of sound character.

You know, I've always preferred an honest insult over a flattering lie.
 

elizabeth

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Bruce - true. But flowers, candy, courting behavior for three months, versus saying "what do you say we go back to your place with a bottle of champagne" on date #1... are two different suggestions, based purely on appearances. I for one did not ever stop to think that gestures such as those above (courting) would be insincere or a mask for a man whose goal was other than a serious relationship. How are we to trust other people when actions are so deceitful? I'm not male bashing, this is an honest question. How are you to judge a person's character when initial behavior is perfect?
 

matt

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Woh woh woh hold on just a minute guys. This has developed so fast. Be mindful of your thoughts Elizabeth. It has gone from holding hope in your heart for a potential relationship with this guy, and now followed to judging the man to be emotionally empty. But you still havnt spoken to HIM about your fears, only someone else. It really isnt fair to say he has no emotion based on someone else experience. Wouldnt it be better to ask or speak to the man about this, be open, honest and have trust in your own ability to articulate your feelings. Every person has emotion, every person has their own defence mechanisms, every person has their own weaknesses and strengths, and every person deserves a chance to be seen in a good light, to be seen for the goodness within them.

It seems to me it is far easier for you to dissipate your hopeful feelings by means of character assassination. Strong words I speak I know, but I have seen this situation many times before, and believe me, if you follow this pattern it will only create mistrust for you in any future man you find adoration with. The beauty of trust is about seeing through all the bad in a person, knowing the love they have in their soul somewhere, whether is be deep buried or more disguised than others care to see.

If you like him, dont judge him on his past, every man has made mistakes, as has every woman. A man without a woman is like a bird without wings, he may dream to fly, but at best he will jump high. A man with the love of a woman finds his heart flourishing, his wings spreading and then he can use his beloved heart to show her the way to their dreams together. Trust isnt a conditional ally, its an all pervading, all accepting friend. I know some people in my life who are seen in a very bad light by others, but I have seen the greatness within them, the fears lurking inside, and their best attempts to deal with them. And you still havnt spoken to this man, why would you want to learn more about him from another person? They are not him, they dont feel his emotions for him, or know his purpose.

Just be careful not to slip onto the road of mistrust, based on the easier road of non hope.
 

elizabeth

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Matt, thank you for the kinder, gentler point of view. The problem is that this new explanation --and i grant you it is hearsay, but from a reliable source-- fills in far too many question marks from the past 10 months. Furthermore, the Yi keeps telling me not to contact him, to be meek;smallness furthers. What conclusion to draw other than that which is being put before me?

I have always given each person I meet the benefit of the doubt until they prove me wrong. This man isn't phoning me now/ So even if he is the perfect man and perfect angel and perfect perspective partner: I'm not who he wants. (I'd say I'm not who he wants to "use" but that implies the negative interpretation you're suggesting i shy away from, so i'll leave it out). Me phoning just will show interest (if he is egotistical), and I'm not sure that after his not phoning me, he would tell me things about his inner fears/hopes/dreams/plans anyway, inso far as we are, when all is said and done "just friends".

If I interpreted your comment correctly, I should trust him, assume he is good and not bad as a person, and act as a friend to him? In all honesty, I want to give him a lecture on safe physical..interaction, and recommend he not go the "spontaneous" route with girls and pregnancy, but there's no way i can call out of the blue and say that, and who's to say he'd listen anyway. Its not my job to teach him anyway. I see him faltering/searching and I want to help, partly selfishly and partly bc I think i could help.. who knows.

You are bang on, that mistrust is easy to fall into after losing hope. I'm not quite sure how to combat it though.
 

void

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<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

A man without a woman is like a bird without wings<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

What !!!
 
B

bruce

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Elizabeth, perhaps it's time to revisit your first answer - 58.1,2 - 45. Draw yourself together (now with the new input) and find your own inner joy. Then your future exchanges will prove more fruitful; with him and with future associations.

My own unsolicited advise? Be brave and act worthy of yourself. That's the kind of woman a man has to respect, with or without flowers.

Best to you.
 

matt

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Oops sorry Void, I meant to say;

"A man without wings is like a woman without a bird" *wink*

Elizabeth, I dont normally do I ching reading interpretations for others, and Im not going to start now, however I will say that your readings say no such thing as 'be small, meek, and not contact him'. And trust is not about ONLY seeing the good in someone, this qould be so very one-sided to completely ignore the darker side. I meant that its a persons weaknesses that can ultimately make us adore someone, the little things makes the big thing come alive. Love should always have friendship at its core anyway, the two walk side by side. But a friend is totally honest and direct when they need to be, they will say what needs to be said, act when action is needed. The problem is that when most people form romantic connections, they fear these direct truth exchanges for fear of driving the other person away, so a lot is left concealed and hidden. If we were to be ourselves, without fear of losing, then our connections would ultimately be deeper. We could say what we wanted to others (in the context of it being caring and affectionately expressed) and our spiritual growth would benefit.

Be true to yourself, be true to others, do not fear losing, and no too aware of gaining. Then all that follows is simple and pure like a young smile. The test of a persons character is not how they talk about themselves, but how they talk about others, which is why I never follow a 3rd party advice about a person if it is critical. I'll listen to it, sure, but it wont become my new view of that person. Hmm Im not sure what else I could say, Ive said about everything I can.
 

jerryd

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Elizabeth, to be flimflamed, hoodwinked and deceived all by someone you believed to be sincere, wheather it be for love or money. When one considers if they should do it again well the honest answer is yes.....but do it with a different person, and learn from growing older.

This has not been a reading just some friendly observations from accumulated experience.
 
M

micheline

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Matt's pristine view of man is very beautiful. and no doubt true on a deep level. a beautiful soul lies beneath every exterior, however that doesnt mean it is ever going to be free to see the light of day in the current lifetime. this man who courted elizabeth probably does not intend to hurt and deceive.

elizabeth, i think you need to think back to when you met this man, and about the time you spent together. Unfailingly, the intuition tells us about who we are dealing with, and warns us of danger and deception. Flowers and politeness are merely the surface, intuition sees past this.

I am not saying he didnt seem 100% for real, but can you think of any kind of little sign you had,a gut feeling, reaction, nighttime dream, or clear but fleeting sense that things were not what they seemed? Sometimes we dont want to see these messages from the intuition, but they are always there. Intuition is part of who we are.

I wouldnt fear "not knowing" who is trustworthy in the future, just decide to ask for your own internal guidance to be more clear. keep a dream log. write in a journal daily. you will always know the truth if you do the "lowly listening."
 

void

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Hey Elizabeth just to take your mind off things for a second take a look at Matts profile picture, hmmmm
wink.gif
Now a man who looks like that and says "a man without a woman is like a bird without wings" well you gotta listen to him - hmmm.
 

elizabeth

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Void & Matt -- cute,very cute. :)

Micheline -- You make a good point. I have looked back countless times to all of our interactions over the past ten or eleven months, and there were no signs, no gut reactions, no sense that things were not what they seemed. The only thing I noticed -- and it was not on any subconscious level --was that he wasnt spending the time with me that I would have liked. (I would have wanted more interaction w/him, but dont we always). Only one strange incident happened in April that until 2 weeks ago I didnt understand but was trying ever since that time to figure out. That's the only sign I saw. My own internal guidance has rarely been clear enough when it comes to men, unfortunately. It's not something I tend to be well in tune with, if I am at all. I take what comes and analyze it like crazy, and in this case I had to have a male friend spell out his actions in laymen's terms to me.

Matt - I agree with your point about friendship being based on honesty and trust. In all my relationships it is so, and I too live by this creed. You're right about fear of losing someone though; this man didnt open up to me on intimate topics and so I didnt open up with him, but I wish very much that we could have the kind of relationship where that was de rigeur.

In looking at my own actions, I have surmised that my enthusiasm in the past ended in some lucky times spent with this man. When I "turn it off"...this is what happens. (nothing happens!) I've gotten several readings (not posted on this thread, but done over the past two weeks) asking the I ching if i can or should contact him. Each time it gives me a blaring "no"...at least that's how i interpreted it. 55.3.4 is telling me to go inwards, not outwards... I asked how i should act now and got 62.4 (Preponderance of small) changing to 15 modesty. Last night I asked again, "should i phone him as a friend" and got 53.4.6 Arousing Thunder (shock is mired/ and Shock brings ruin and terrified gazing around. Going ahead brings misfortune.) changing to 27 unchanging, Nourishment. I took those as "do not proceed".
 

matt

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Hey Elizabeth, what a wonderful morning this is! Sun shining, birds singing! I imagine it is quite cold in Russia, but hopefully you have blue skies to brighten the day. About your readings... as I have said before, I dont feel it is my place to tell you what they mean, because each of us have our own path and truth, but just to let you know about my experience with the I Ching and its readings - The Yi doesnt tell us what we SHOULD do, it simply informs us of how energy is moving, it highlights the pattern for us, and then we have to use our own intuition and observations to move forward. The Yi would never take away our free choices, it is simply there to enhance our understanding of the moment whilst the choice still remains ours. A 'negative' reading (something I dont believe in, but I need to say it because many do view some lines as negative) doesnt necessarily mean we have to NOT do something, it is just telling us about our own mental state right now, and how this mental state might influence events approaching us. If we possess a doubt when asking a question to the Yi, then the Yi will try to illuminate our doubt and show us why it is there. I dont see it as a 'future teller' or a book that tells us the 'correct' way, I just see it as a lantern in a dark cave, it provides light in the shade but we still have to trace our footsteps.

You know, often, if I have recieved a 'negative' reading, and I am struggling to find myself in it, then I do exactly the opposite of what it says, I follow the doubt so to speak. That way, I beging to understand my inner doubt in the outer world, and hey, if I make mistakes then they are good mistakes, because they have taught me more about myself. If we avoid the doubt, it never goes away. I know you are keen to follow a new way for yourself, to try to learn more, because you feel your over enthusiasm have maybe dampened the fires of romance in your past, but there is an extra element to this you havnt considered. When things are going great being two people, and they are loving the company of each other, then enevitably a doubt will creep in about how long this could last, will it keep moving forward with the same momentum and wonderful vigour? And it is this very doubt that is the reason for the dying of the flame, not the openness of heart/feeling and exuberance of enthusiasm. Suddenly every action you take in the romance is questioned - is it right for me to be so available? am I yielding too much? should I play harder to get? I really like him, but does he like me as much, maybe I should play it cooler. And there lies the cause, we are no longer living through the purity of the moment, instead all of our actions are over-analysed and tarnished with this self doubt. This is where the I Ching CAN be invaluable to us, because it will just tell us how our energy is moving so we can identify the source of our worries or the beauty of our joys. But the choice is still ours.

Live every day as if it was your first and last, every moment as if it was the only moment, its not our abilities, skills or intelligence that make us who we are, its just our choices. Im sorry if I have droned on a bit hehe
happy.gif
I am aware that I am quite young compared to most of the people in this community, and I do have less life experience and I still have a lot to learn myself! Maybe Im an eternal optimist. Or maybe a man with too many feathers
happy.gif
 

heylise

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28 - and so much wisdom...
zen2.gif
 
M

micheline

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agreeing with LiSe..
which galaxy are you from, Matt? i hope they send more of your kind
 
M

micheline

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and...your feathers are sweet, but I definitely vote for putting your real picture back up on the profile
 

void

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Jerrys an egg !! Very articulate for an egg !
 

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