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Can the Yijing cause you to lose your personal power?

L

lightofreason

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hilary said:
I always said 13 was about creating harmony. LOL. Dear old Yi.

with/from guidance (fire in lower) comes singlemindedness (heaven in upper)

The basic emotion represented in fire is that of acceptance - being 'in' the gang etc etc.

Guidance doubled is reflected in 30 through establishing a direction, an ideology to expand/sell and so convert 'outside' (difference) to 'inside' (sameness, likemindedness)

The infrastructure of 13 is described by analogy with 62 and so a focus on collective loyalty.

Its source of nourishment is described by analogy with 10 - to follow a path 'carefully'.

Chris.
 
B

bruce_g

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Listener,

Because it wasn’t honest, or at least not completely honest. I claimed I didn’t realize how rude it sounded, but that’s not true. I knew I was playing the devil’s advocate when I started this thread, or else I wouldn’t have posted the red warning. When I realized that I had fooled myself out of a need to feel accepted, I called bullsh*t on myself, and then deleted the post.
 

mudpie

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fair enough, Bruce. Guess this means you're true blue ...
and no one can call you yeller.
; )
 
B

bruce_g

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listener said:
fair enough, Bruce. Guess this means you're true blue ...
and no one can call you yeller.
; )

been called worse than yeller. lol.. it don’t never mind. if we can’t be fully ourselves then who will be?
 

ariel13

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If you are easily offended, please do not read this.

Can the Yijing cause you to lose your personal power? Can the Yi cause more harm than good, specifically to those who seek to serve it, obey it or conform to it?

Using the microcosm of this very forum by way of example, I have witnessed the colors, flare and vibrancy go out of some here. I have also seen those who appear to lack personal power and dynamics, who remain in a pale state of neutrality. Only my subjective opinion or personal projection? Maybe. I’ll let you decide that.

I believe that we can so yield to the authority from which the Yi speaks, trusting implicitly in everything we interpret it as saying, that we stand to lose the best of what we are made of in the process.

This can also been seen in some who have gone through extensive therapy, seeking to “clean up their act”, and exorcise all of their demons.

The same is true, in general, for the Christian religion. All demons are to be cast out, no “bad” habits are to remain. This is a travesty of the teaching of the one they claim to follow. Jesus spoke a parable in Mathew 12:43-45, which says:

“When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth [it] empty, swept, and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last [state] of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.”

Christians reconcile the meaning of this parable as saying, no one is capable of casting out their own demons; only Jesus can do that. I do not believe that is at all what Jesus was saying. I believe that Jesus was saying what was later said by Nietzsche:

“Be careful about casting out your demon, you might be casting out the best part.”

So, call me the devil, because I admonish you: do not become anemic in your effort to become “The Superior Man”. Screw the Superior Man, screw the I-Ching, screw Lao Tzu and Jesus too, if to follow them means losing who you really are, and all those beautiful colors of life.

I know this is a super old thread, but I just wanted to comment here. I kind of tend to agree with you Bruce. But it's something that I only recently realized. For instance, the I Ching always seems to recommend being passive and patient in a situation rather than taking a lot of agency at times. I am definitely a more direct and spontaneous person. At times that passion does get me into trouble I'll admit, but it's also who I am. I'm not saying that anger is "who I am," but being a responsive and passionate take charge kind of person is who I am.

I recently had a situation where the I Ching seemed to be recommending passivity and docility in a situation. I ignored it's advise and told a certain individual exactly how I felt about their actions, which by most people's standards were not ok. The following day I felt relieved, relinquished and exhilerated. That person needed to hear exactly what I said to him, and I felt good for having expressed myself really honestly even if it was harsh.

It also gave the added bonus of sort of curtailing the situation in the proper way so that I wouldn't be rapped up in it anymore. I have a great CBT psychology book that looks at various ways of handling things emotionally, and one of them says that if your anger "accomplishes something" then it is warranted and useful. So basically they suggest to look at your anger in any given situation, and if it is useful then use it and embrace it. If not, let it go.

So anyway, what I am basically saying is that often times the I Ching recommends that I do something (or not do something) that is against my nature. I think it best to take it with a grain of salt, because I want to be true to myself. And I have finally (through the love of friends and family and partners) over the years learned to love all of me, not just the kind docile part.

Thanks for your post.

:bows:
 

moss elk

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the I Ching always seems to recommend being passive and patient in a situation rather than taking a lot of agency at times.
Consider that most people use Yi for something that they are at unease about or confused or unclear about. When in a state of something like anxiousness/unease/anger, generally the best thing to do is recalibrate oneself: get back to the calm clear centered state. So if you are getting messages to relax and not do anything this can relate to your own current-at-the-time disposition. Now, if you get 51.3 you are being told to act with vigour in response to something shocking. So, I can say confidently that yi does not always say to 'take it easy'. (just often it does)


I am definitely a more direct and spontaneous person. At times that passion does get me into trouble I'll admit
That's why you get chill out counsel:
to keep you out of trouble.
but it's also who I am.
I beg to differ, it is How you are.
Not Who you are. And we and our 'Hows' are maleable.

So anyway, what I am basically saying is that often times the I Ching recommends that I do something (or not do something) that is against my nature.
:bows:
Again, I suggest that Yi recommends you do things that are against not your nature, but against your tendencies, emotions, and ideas about a subject. It helps us cultivate better 'hows' / 'ways' /behaviours. At least, that is what it does for me.
 
S

svenrus

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Couldn't resist wondering if this Bruce_g understood the answers given by the I.....

(Super old thread ? No, I don't think so, reading books concerning the matter older than me yet felt as if they were written yesterday....)
 
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Tigercat

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Im coming to believe that Iching lets us access the "higher self" that is connected to and dwells with God. It is not God though.

As far as Jesus, he said "I am the way, the truth and the life" and "No one comes to the father except through me"
Pretty strong statements, either he was crazy, lieing, or telling the truth
And we all have to make the choice about what we believe about his words. Personally, I believe he was telling the truth. And the fruit, the outcome of staking my life in practical ways on his words, is real peace in my life. It is an experience, not a theory. And the cool thing is, surrendering to Jesus has allowed a power that is not my own, to work in my life. A higher power that enhances and transforms and elevates my unique and lower "colors" as Bruce puts it

I think Jesus is okay with Iching)
 

ariel13

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Moss Elk,

I think you misunderstand a lot of what I was saying or are taking it in the wrong context.

This is true in some cases, but I think you are misunderstanding me:

Consider that most people use Yi for something that they are at unease about or confused or unclear about. When in a state of something like anxiousness/unease/anger, generally the best thing to do is recalibrate oneself: get back to the calm clear centered state. So if you are getting messages to relax and not do anything this can relate to your own current-at-the-time disposition.

Sometimes quite the opposite response is the most appropriate, and what I am saying is that I know that standing up for myself is better for me than not. You don't know me, so you are makings assumptions that don't apply to the situation. In the past I had a tendency not to stand up for myself. So yes, when the IChing tells me to chill out, I don't think it's the best response. YES if I'm just being over anxious sure. But not when someone needs to be called on the carpet instead of allowed to walk on me.

Now, if you get 51.3 you are being told to act with vigour in response to something shocking. So, I can say confidently that yi does not always say to 'take it easy'. (just often it does)

This is true, but point was to say that I OFTEN receive readings that counsel to chill out, and I DO think that if I had to characterize the IChing on a whole that it typically counsels thinking and passivity as opposed to vigorous action. But also, I think the IChing in general is more passive than a lot of similar philosophies, etc. So maybe this is just a difference of opinion between you and I. Maybe I have been exposed to more aggressive attitudes.. I am from the U.S. which I don't think is a very passive culture.

That's why you get chill out counsel:
to keep you out of trouble.

Nahh. I think not saying something to someone who is being abusive towards me actually gets me into a lot more trouble.

I beg to differ, it is How you are.
Not Who you are. And we and our 'Hows' are maleable.
Sure. Thanks for splitting hairs about my choice of words. Once again I will reiterate that for me– someone who has a history of deep seated depression based on internalizing anger rather than expressing it– ACTION regarding someone who has wronged me is the best thing for me, as opposed to internalizing.

Again, I suggest that Yi recommends you do things that are against not your nature, but against your tendencies, emotions, and ideas about a subject. It helps us cultivate better 'hows' / 'ways' /behaviours. At least, that is what it does for me.

Sure, I just don't think it's always right. I think it's an oracle that is based on synchronicity. So often we do get the counsel we need. But sometimes the point of pulling a reading is to open our eyes to the opposite idea. I think the act of pondering on potential counsel and deciding whether it is the right course of action for us OR NOT is as useful a meditation as is following the counsel. Either way it does force us to consider the situation. I think you and I just see the oracle differently.
 

bradford

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If an inanimate thing causes you to lose your personal power, then you already lost it some time before.
 

bruce_g

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I know this is a super old thread, but I just wanted to comment here. I kind of tend to agree with you Bruce. But it's something that I only recently realized. For instance, the I Ching always seems to recommend being passive and patient in a situation rather than taking a lot of agency at times. I am definitely a more direct and spontaneous person. At times that passion does get me into trouble I'll admit, but it's also who I am. I'm not saying that anger is "who I am," but being a responsive and passionate take charge kind of person is who I am. I recently had a situation where the I Ching seemed to be recommending passivity and docility in a situation. I ignored it's advise and told a certain individual exactly how I felt about their actions, which by most people's standards were not ok. The following day I felt relieved, relinquished and exhilerated. That person needed to hear exactly what I said to him, and I felt good for having expressed myself really honestly even if it was harsh. It also gave the added bonus of sort of curtailing the situation in the proper way so that I wouldn't be rapped up in it anymore. I have a great CBT psychology book that looks at various ways of handling things emotionally, and one of them says that if your anger "accomplishes something" then it is warranted and useful. So basically they suggest to look at your anger in any given situation, and if it is useful then use it and embrace it. If not, let it go. So anyway, what I am basically saying is that often times the I Ching recommends that I do something (or not do something) that is against my nature. I think it best to take it with a grain of salt, because I want to be true to myself. And I have finally (through the love of friends and family and partners) over the years learned to love all of me, not just the kind docile part.Thanks for your post.:bows:
Thank you for your understanding, and congratulations on gaining your personal empowerment.
 

Liselle

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I recently had a situation where the I Ching seemed to be recommending passivity and docility in a situation. I ignored it's advise and told a certain individual exactly how I felt about their actions, which by most people's standards were not ok. The following day I felt relieved, relinquished and exhilerated. That person needed to hear exactly what I said to him, and I felt good for having expressed myself really honestly even if it was harsh.

Would you be willing to tell us what the reading was? I'm curious, and it might help the discussion.
 

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