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pedro

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Hooray!!!! a post that is NOT about the Yi
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A friend of mine has recently consulted with a card reader, and the results were very disturbing by its acuracy. For one thing, she could tell all sorts of events about my friends life, without her giving the reader any clue. It was like she was reading all that stuff from some book... This people are not uncommon, I know a few, they are said to have "morada aberta" in portuguese (open house, rough translation), and I think the instrument of divination may be pretty much irrelevant, with the divination skills coming from some inate intuition that one either has or has not.
But I was wandering, anyone knows how is this done with a common deck of cards (not tarot), and where can I learn more about it? There are many books on this subject, most of them sound just like crap and not credible at all, but seeing some of this persons' work, one cant help but think there must be a proper way to do this. So does anyone have experience with card divination and could point me to some links, books, whatever?
In any case, as I told my friend, no divination could predict inevitable outcomes, merely trends, cause in the end we still have free will. She can tell me I'll have a craving for chocolates later that day, and probably I will, but she cannot guarantee that I will indeed eat that chocolate. No matter how much I want it, I can be superior and refrain from eating. I wont eat it. I WONT!!! Oh, what the heck, just pass me the chocolate please
 

pedro

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what, no card readers here? hum... should I go back to the Yi questions?
 

anita

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Hi Pedro,

I do the Tarot sometimes but only for myself as I don't think I'm an expert at it. I have a set of other cards called the Parlour Sibyl which I rarely use. Is this the set you mean? The Tarot at times is misleading because it shows influences at times and they can be miscontrused as events.

Best for your Quest

Anita
 

heylise

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There is a very famous set of cards by Mademoiselle Lenormand. They have been drawn anew many times, by many different artists. At http://www.serenapowers.com/lenormand.html you can find descriptions of the cards. If you enter 'all of the words: Lenormand, cards' or 'exact phrase: Mademoiselle Lenormand' (or mlle Lenormand) in Google, you will also find websites with some pictures of the cards.

It gives a good idea what a good set can be.

LiSe
 

Sparhawk

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Hi Pedro,

Since you are in Portugal, most likely your friend consulted with someone using the Spanish Deck of cards (Baraja Española).

As a matter of fact, both my wife and myself believe in this method of divination more than we do the Tarot. We personally rank the I Ching best, since it is closer to our heart and we both study and practice it, and then the Baraja.

We have a friend in Philadelphia who uses the Baraja for divination and once in a while we visit him for a reading, actually we were there last week for a reading. I can tell you that in all the years we've known him, he's been right on with his predictions. We certainly have a LOT of respect for his readings.

If you would like to learn more about using the Baraja for divination (in English), LiSe provided you with a link to Serena Powers site, however, the link is to another page. The page for the Baraja is at http://www.serenapowers.com/spanishcards.html.

Please note that the deck used is the classic Baraja Española where the cards 8 and 9 are removed from the deck. The remaining deck has 40 cards left.

There are two other sites I would recommend to you but they are in Spanish. I am sure you would be no much trouble reading them, the same way I can read Portuguese if I am pushed to do it. Sorry for English only readers...

http://www.canalcartomancia.net/muestra.asp?op=20

http://bellsouthpwp.net/c/a/cartomantico/

I'm sure you could learn from these.

Cheers,

Luis
 
L

lilian

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At the site of the baraja cards, I also found Chien Tung fortune telling sticks. The text to the sticks - can it be only found in the accompagning booklet, or is it available on the net somewhere?

Thanks in advance
Lilian
 

Frankelmick

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Pedro,

I'm a Tarot reader and people have told me that my Tarot readings have proved to be incredibly accurate and useful.

In my readings, I use a system created by Karen Witter which links each Tarot trump to an I Ching Hexagram.

I love the Tarot and the I Ching and I'd be interested to discuss possible practical correspondences.

Best wishes,

Mick
 

pedro

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Thanks everybody for your helpful comments on this. Im collecting several articles from your supplied links, and I'll be studying them as I can.
I was once pretty fluent with the tarot, and people used to enjoy my readings, and thought I was some kind of sage by issuing those remarks. The tarot has the advantage of the visual symbology the cards provide, something I think that even a person unfamiliar with the meanings can intuitively grasp. But I gave up the tarot when I started using the Yi more seriously, cause I think the answers are much more focused using the Yi. The tarot always left me with a sense of vagueness, that could of course be limited by the interpreter, but still sounded like one could manipulate the results to a larger extent. Its still possible to read what one wants from the Yi, but it is harder, since the Yi sometimes just speaks directly at you, not by a set of symbols but in actual words.
One of my fave tarots is the Crowley tarot. Lovely pictures, and often very accurate.

Mick, I would really like to know those correspondances, although since the cardinal isnt the same, I think that should all be taken with a grain of salt.

Anyway, thanks for all your help, I'll be putting my gipsy hat now and start shuffling cards

Love,
pedro
 

Frankelmick

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Pedro,

I like what you said about people taking you for a sage. You have to stay very clear within yourself I think.

You said, "The tarot always left me with a sense of vagueness, that could of course be limited by the interpreter, but still sounded like one could manipulate the results to a larger extent."

I find that the Tarot isn't that useful for yes/no questions.

But for gaining some insight into your situation, Tarot spreads are very good I think. Especially if you have several possible paths to follow, for example career directions.

I can't read Tarot for myself though. I consult the I Ching to do a reading for myself.

You said, "I would really like to know those correspondances, although since the cardinal isnt the same, I think that should all be taken with a grain of salt."

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by cardinal but I totally agree about taking this with a grain of salt.

Here's a link to Karen's system.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WheelofTarot/message/5

Her work is completely out of my league but the end result is a set of correspondences that I find to be very practical and useful.

There's a thread here on Clarity where I'm posting 1 hexagram a month with the Tarot correspondence and some very brief notes.

I don't know how to post a link but it's here:

I Ching Community Discussion Forum: Divination discussion, advice and tips: Archive of threads started January to June 2002: I Ching/Tarot Associations - Karen Witter

Best wishes,

Mick
http://www.tabi.org.uk
 

hilary

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Hi Pedro,

Looking back at your original post - could it be that the reader was just plain telepathic? A friend of mine who has had similar results with tarot readings (identifying people's obscure professions, etc) has reason to believe that this is how it works.

After a reader who described the rest of her life with stunning accuracy went into similar detail about a man in her life who didn't exist, she racked her brains and realised the reader was describing an imaginary figure, a character she'd once invented - and described and embroidered almost to the point of believing in him herself - to deter unwanted attentions from someone else.

This inspired her to get together with other tarot-reading friends for an informal experiment: each would live an intense fantasy life for a set period, and then they'd read for one another to see if they could describe the details of these lives. They could.

So - maybe what's important here is the particular gift of the individual, rather than which method they are using?
 

pedro

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Hey Mick,
Yes I agree with your view of the tarot. I find it very useful to act as a mirror ofour own thoughts, but thats also why I think the Yi is more to the point. With the tarot I seem to only get out what was already inside me, while the Yi, although it can reflect the state of my mind, it also has a mind of its own.

Re: cardinal, I meant the number of symbols in each set (#Yi=64, #tarot=21+1+56). So when providing a complete mapping one has to use some arbitrary rules. I know some cards will be obvious in its connection to the Yi, for others, well, I gotta check the references you mention first (thanks for the links
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Hilary, I believe telepathy or some kind of supersensitive intuition is indeed the key, not really the cards. Also this woman uses a method where she lays the whole deck on the table, and then picks sets of cards that "speak" to her, so indeed there is no rule, I think, and Im not even sure she uses a strict symbology or just figures it all out by some kind of ESP. Your story about the imaginary character portraits it well, I think these people dont even know how they do it, they may just see these things
 

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