chocolate 45.5>8

[goddessliss]

A friend of mine is heading to a place that has an awesome chocolate factory - I so hope he doesn't forget to get it. For lovers of chocolate you'll be able to understand where I'm coming from.


What is the possibility he'll buy me some chocolate


45.4>8

Hmm gathering a place where they assemble the chocolate perhaps as in the factory.

Line 4 good fortune so I'm guessing he's gonna be good enough to buy it for me.

And hex 8 connecting with him to actually get the chocolate or maybe just our friendship.

 

[goddessliss]

the heading should read 45.4>8

 

[steve]

It looks pretty good, lets see

Steve

 

[Liselle]

Investment (45) in a Bond of friendship (8)?

45.4 (from Hilary's book)
"Great good fortune, no mistake.

Which appears to be a very simple "yes". Maybe the fan yao gives more specifics.

8.4
'Outside, seeking union.
Constancy, good fortune.'

There's an emphasis on "outside" - maybe it means "outside himself"? Maybe Yi's stressing that he'll think of you; he won't selfishly buy chocolate only for himself?

 

[goddessliss]

Nope he didn't remember to get it - silly Yi and silly man

 

[Liselle]

Oh my word...

 

[Liselle]

Well...after thinking about it for a minute, I think Yi was being really nitpicky. Or it was teasing you.

You asked, "What is the possibility he'll buy me some chocolate"

Yi: "Well, it'll be 'possible' this way - if he thinks about / remembers you while he's there, he'll get you some."

Maybe Yi was trying to make a point about question-asking? But I don't see anything obviously wrong with your question. An alternative might have been, "Will he buy me some chocolate?", but yes/no questions are sometimes frowned upon. "X buying me chocolate?" would be another option.

But what you asked seems fine to me (not that it's up to me, of course).

Yi-humor? Is there anything in the triangle of you, this man, and Yi which might cause a bit of needling (ribbing, teasing - don't know if you use the same words)?

(I'm not saying ~I~ think it's funny - but members here will say from time to time that Yi has a sense of humor - it's the only other explanation I can think of...)

 

[rosada]

Well let's see...

45.4 certainly sounded positive but...

You asked what were the possibilities your friend would bring the chocolate. This is different from asking if he actually would...

Although we don't talk about it much, hex.8 does advise that one should refine their question and consult the oracle a second time.

Okay, maybe the I Ching was advising you that there was a good possibility or opportunity but that ultimately you needed to check and be sure your friend was clear about your Union, your agreement.

So I think you were being told he would have done it if he'd agreed to it but I guess he hadn't thought he'd made that commitment. Maybe 8 as the resulting hex should be interpreted as meaning, "Ask a second time to be clear about what the agreement is." Maybe he needed a reminder. Maybe we should start a new thread over in Exploring Divination about what the meaning of the hexagrams are when we get them as the resulting hexagram.

So sorry about the non-chocolate. that hurts.

 

[rosada]

Studying this a bit further cause we like to think the I Ching is always right even when it's wrong, wrong wrong!!!

Anyway, maybe it wasn't wrong after all. In my notes I see I have labeled 45.4 The Altruist because the hexagram is about working for the good of the whole and emphasizes that success comes from completely putting aside thoughts of PERSONAL gain. So in this case it may be the vibes were right for group success but not individual favors.

I also think how 8. Seeking Union is about making treaties and contracts. After the war and 7. The Army, now the challenge is to negotiate with the other fiefs and work together for mutual benefit. Getting 8uc then would imply that the agreements were yet to be made, that at this point one is still SEEKING Union.

So in hindsight I read your answer as saying, "Your request was too personal and therefor did not resonate with the possibilities, energies, which were only rewarding altruistic requests this day." (Maybe you should have asked him to bring back enough chocolate to feed your whole group!) or another take: "While in general the possibilities are good that your friend might altruistically be willing to make a special purchase for you, this only happens if there has been a clear agreement - treaty - between you. Ask again if he needs a reminder."

 

[Liselle]

Maybe Liss could clarify the circumstances?

I was envisioning this as the sort of thing where you'd like someone to bring you something, but you don't ask them to. That sounds a bit passive-aggressive written down like that, which isn't how I mean it. It's hard to explain.

But it's a whole different thing from, "Please bring some chocolate back for me" as an explicit agreement (which would probably mean Liss would pay for it, and it wouldn't be a thoughtful kindness on his part, or a gift; it would be a business transaction).

Now that you bring all this up, Rosada, I don't know how Liss meant it or thought of it.

 

[Liselle]

But I do see what you mean about the hexagrams, Rosada... maybe Yi was giving information rather than making a prediction, which is what Liss seemed to be asking for? Something like, "Here is the real situation"?

(In which case another lesson might be not to be swayed by a happy-sounding line without paying attention to the hexagrams.)

Hopefully Liss can clear things up.

 

[goddessliss]

So in hindsight I read your answer as saying, "Your request was too personal and therefor did not resonate with the possibilities, energies, which were only rewarding altruistic requests this day." (Maybe you should have asked him to bring back enough chocolate to feed your whole group!) or another take: "While in general the possibilities are good that your friend might altruistically be willing to make a special purchase for you, this only happens if there has been a clear agreement - treaty - between you. Ask again if he needs a reminder."



Thank you to everyone for talking about chocolate with me.....he's a fellow traveller so I don't really know him that well. He sent me a message telling me where he was and I said something like could you please, please get me some chocolate from the chocolate factory I'll be your best friend forever and he responded with haha yeah it's yummy chocolate from there isn't it. Knowing we're going to be in the same city in about a month and potentially could have been meeting up to swap stories I was kinda thinking he'd be kind enough to get the chocolate but alas he did not.

So there wasn't really an agreement with him was there?? but being the person I am I would have definitely gotten the chocolate for another if the situation were reversed so I just, as always, assume people have the same mindset as me....not to worry less weight to lose in the long run haha

 

[Liselle]

So you did clearly ask him, then, and it seems he's the one weaselled? I mean, laughing and agreeing it's good chocolate - a very clever way of sounding like he's saying yes without ever saying yes (or no). Harumph.

How the reading might work, in light of that information...not sure...I think what Rosada said is surely at the heart of it...

Why would he have weaselled...hm...maybe because you don't know each other that well? Could that matter more to him than to you? Could he have thought, "Well, phooey, I'm not going to spend money on this person I barely know"? (I'm making things up here.) Maybe he wanted to specifically hear that you would reimburse him, which would have been more of a formal contract? Whereas if the situation was reversed you would have been happy to bring even a casual friend a token gift.

Could probably substitute "effort" for "money" in that - he's not willing to make any effort for someone he barely knows?

I suppose he could have just plain forgot...I'm just suspicious of the weaselly way he reacted in the first place. "I forgot" can be very convenient for things you never intended to do at all. Or it could be true.

Still not sure how to fit this into the reading in any kind of pithy, satisfying way. Rosada, help

And I suppose it's still possible that Yi was being nitpicky about the word "possibility" in your question. I had a reading like that once. I asked what possibility something would happen, and Yi described a way, but it didn't end up happening. So - "here's how it might have been possible, which is precisely what you asked me ". (Needless to say I wasn't happy with Yi, though it's a lesson I still remember.)

 

[Liselle]

sounding like he's saying yes without ever saying yes

Haha. Yi also sounded like "yes" without it being "yes". (I don't think that means anything - as I said earlier I think I was too swayed by a happy-happy line without understanding the hexagrams. Still don't understand them very well, but Rosada is helping with that )

 

[Liselle]

Rosada's hexagram 45 "group" idea - maybe half the people he knows asked him to bring them chocolate, and it had gotten out of hand? Each person only knew about their own request, but to him it was collectively too much?

That's at least more charitable to the fellow, though it would have been better for him to just say so.

Still don't know what the line itself is saying in that scenario.

 

[steve]

I asked recently is it possible my fiance was pregnant, i really thought she was and the lines were really positive, then all of a sudden confirmed she wasn't.
I didnt ask is she pregnant for some reason I asked is it possible.
Of course it was possible.

Interesting when we ask possibly, in perspective he could have never intended to or forgot or right at the last minute ran back and grabbed it, suppose what i am getting at the Yi is always in a state of flux as is the world. So i guess the possibility was great he was in the factory but the bugger didnt actually do it. I find this also when i ask questions about my business, anything is possible if i make the steps, wording the question is everything, but i suppose when you really want chocolate then its worth asking also when its a particular type of chocolate, i fully understand.

The thread I think is very useful it depends i believe on actions taken.

Lets face it the chances were good he was in the factory for goodness sake, so i think the line is saying yes the chances are extremely good but will he actually take the right steps thats another matter.

Steve

 

[rosada]

Re-reading this thread makes me think we've been too hard on the guy. After all, he never agreed to bring her the chocolate!
I now read 45.5 - 8 as a picture of Liss' request. She didn't make any mention of reimbursing him for the cost (and good chocolate does cost) so she was asking him to be an altruistic giver (45.5) and in return she was offering the 8.Union of being his best friend.

By responding that he too liked good chocolate I think he was gracefully acknowledging her request and avoiding telling her he didn't feel comfortable with her offer.

 

[goddessliss]

I spoke to him last night - nothing mentioned about chocolate....we're just friendly acquaintances that may or may not see each other in our travels again. No he probably doesn't want to be my BFF but then again he probably knew I was kidding when I said that, just trying to smooth talk my way into getting some chocolate. Sure I still would have got the chocolate had the situation been reversed but that's just me. He's an expoliceman and he's said how he tends to think people have ulterior motives and in conversation he can be quite reserved, you know when you're talking to a policeman being your normal friendly self and they just act very stoic...he's like that. He laughs with me and enjoys my gregarious but remains 'uninvolved'....

 

[rosada]

Well then I think you were very 45.5 Altruistic to offer him a chance to 8.Get Involved.