comparative understanding

[dobro p]

What's your understanding of the main difference between 38 and 6? I have a feeling we talked about this some years ago, but it's so far down in the leaf pile that it must be composted by now.

 

[bamboo]

6 : "I've got a bone to pick with you, buddy" "I want my maypo!"
and 38 : " What rock did he/she crawl out from under? "

 

[rodaki]

6 : "I've got a bone to pick with you, buddy" "I want my maypo!"
and 38 : " What rock did he/she crawl out from under? "

perfect!!

was reading Hilary's blogpost about 6 yesterday . . great stuff there too -thanks Hilary

and since I can't stop myself from babbling today D)
I have a little story about 38 . . years ago I left work one evening and decided to walk back home by a long seaside pier. I also got this strange idea that I was going to try to walk in a straight line following one of the tile lines that covered the whole width of the pier . .
Night was falling but I didn't mind cause lot's of people hang out by the sea these hours. At some point I saw a figure coming from the opposite direction, walking in a straight line, and looking like he/she walked in the tile line I had chosen . . hmmm . .
The figure was a man and he was walking following too a tile line
Not sure if he switched when he saw I wasn't going to give up my straight line or if it just happened he had chosen the tileline right next to 'mine', but we passed by each other almost brushing one another . . I didn't look, the whole thing felt just too weird!!
I'm always reminded of that when I get into thinking about 38 . . .

 

[jilt]

Very nice babbling you have, Rodaki. That is a typical 38 situation, made me laugh wholeheartedly.

When you see hex 38 as following hex 37, the family, things become more clear. In hex 37 you see the primal group, the family. In 38 you see opposition to this group, like in adolescence. After that comes hex 39, difficulty. Here the opposition, something unsurmountable, is redefined to a difficulty, something that can be dealt with. In 40 you see the end of difficulty by a process of acceptance and forgiving. Those 4 hexagrams describe the process of growing up.
In hex 6 things are much more cocky. Things are not befined by dichotomies and "I am not like them", but by "I am right and I therfore I want to win, I have a right to win. I need the others to show of, I need the bronze and silver to let shine my gold, it misses the melancholic (unsurmountability,being alone and unique) aspect of 38. Hex 6 needs the arena, hex 38 doesn't want to be part of it.

 

[fkegan]

Hex 6 is crowd dynamics; hex 38 sibling rivalry

Hi Dobro,

Hex 6-- in terms of its Chinese name is described as expected arguments and conflicts that arise when a crowd forms and spends time together. As the 6th hexagram in the first set of 10 it is about rain falling as the product of clouds. The conflict or Striving involved is the natural product of different folks being together and expressing their differing perspectives without any interest of coming to common understanding.

Hex 38 is all about sibling rivalry. The standard image is two younger sisters who would just go out and play with different things they enjoy but they are stuck indoors while it rains so they hassle each other. This conflict is all about the effort to distinguish oneself from one's background or establish individuality in a family context.

It is also the necessary process of complaining while getting acquainted with someone who will be a major partner eventually. Thus hex 38 has to do with the differentiating and relating of jumbled elements that are becoming organized. So this hexagram takes the Flux Tome Name of: Screens (Screams)--The interplay of openings and limitations that sifts, separates, refines and frustrates by displaying a partial final product or glowing image and hiding all the rest.

Frank

 

[Trojina]

Its worth bearing in mind hexagram 6 is very often about internal conflict and does not involve another at all. I find it appears for me when I'm torn between things on an inner level...like when you want to work and you want to play. I find hexagram 6 can be really quite hard work on an inner level, but its often useful to get 6 as it highlights you are having inner conflict, it tells you that at least, so you then have to untangle what these opposing wishes are within yourself, you may not have realised they were even there.

38 too must be relevant on an inner level. It can't always be about seeing things differently from another if there is no 'other' in the question. Hmm not really clear how 38 works on an inner level...maybe one part of you has a completely different priority/value system to another part of you but that is harder for me to know how that may feel...

but anyway for me hex six has really shown up often for internal conflicts, and 38 much more for interpersonal conflicts with another person. Thats just a personal observation really of my own Yinging patterns..(yinging, a verb meaning engaging with Yi ?)

 

[dobro p]

6 : "I've got a bone to pick with you, buddy" "I want my maypo!"
and 38 : " What rock did he/she crawl out from under? "

So, 6 is more about a sense of grievance, which leads to contention or conflict or complaint, whereas 38 is more about a sense of *difference*. Is that it?

If that's the case, then 6 need peacemaking, and 38 needs tolerance. No?

 

[bamboo]

I don't really see 6 as needing peacemaking, as much as a need to grapple with your contention and decide how much worth it has for you. a person might need to stand up and shout, take it to the judge, demand their just due. or, alternatively, decide it is not worth the time and effort. the upper trigram is Heaven, strong and sure, and the Water underneath has got its own agenda. I sense a need for justice and fairness. satisfaction. not necessarily peace. the gavel slams down, case closed. the olive branch is optional

I have often got 38 in regards to my youngest sister. we move in different directions and yet there is a kind of harmony in the way we are connected. or disconnected as the case may be. I really like what Jilt said above about the family and diverging interests.

Is tolerance the right word for what 38 needs ? I don't know. Diversity. Reminds me of sitting on a bus in the city and seeing some really strange and different looking people. we certainly dont make eye contact! I am going to a museum. They are going to a Drag Queen competition. hmmmm. wouldnt life be so boring if we were all the same.

maybe 38 needs a sense of humor or a healthy sense of the absurd

I think it is interesting that most of the lines imply some kind of unexpected liaison of sorts, a way to respond to 38 that seems to go beyond tolerance to something like appreciation. maybe.

 

[dobro p]

Thanks. I've recently drawn both 6 and 38 in relation to the same issue, and I realized I wasn't as clear about them as I thought I was.

 

[meng]

What's your understanding of the main difference between 38 and 6? I have a feeling we talked about this some years ago, but it's so far down in the leaf pile that it must be composted by now.

couple thoughts..

For me, 38 is about individuality, and that it is natural to encounter countervailing energy. It's also easy to be friends with an opposite nature from our own, if we have important things in common. It's the ones most like us that we can't get along with.

6 is about a hidden dispute, a sense of not being heard, of injustice, and needing to do or say something about it to someone. Line 5 is someone to safely tell, the arbiter.

 

[rodaki]

thinking back to my seaside incident, I think that 6 would be an encounter blocking the way, so the advice is to back off
in 38 there's no blockage, you can engage without clashing or go on your way . .

 

[Trojina]

In 6 I think you are both engaging on the same level. If you fight with your neighbour over a fence boundary in the garden then you both share that zeal about fence boundaries. You want your space, he wants his space, nothing for it but to both back down and concede a little fence space.

In 38 one person may erect a new fence with no interest in or thought for territory, they just see it as a nice fence. The neighbour however sees it as a personal attack, his space being stolen. He bangs on the door on the neighbour who just thinks its a nice fence and demands he shifts its postion, hes very annoyed. The first neighbour is puzzled, it never even entered his head it might encroach on his neighbours space he says 'okay no problem man I'll move it'..This reaction throws the the angry neighbour who walks away and says to himself 'hes seriously weird', he cannot conceive how anyone could erect a fence and not consider the space it takes. As he shuts the door the neighbour who erected the fence, is also scratching his head saying to himself "whats his problem ? why is he so angry...all he had to do was mention it when he saw me put it up and who cares about 4 inches less garden anyway !? ". They don't 'get' each other at all...they might argue or they might just wander away from each other muttering 'weirdo' under their breath. In anycase they aren't fighting over the same thing...so they could rub along quite nicely as neighbours I suppose...maybe even send xmas cards...however in a 6 situation they would both be very interested in the 4 inches of garden territory...and may have to settle for 2 inches each...maybe no Xmas cards....

...so in your tile walking scenario Dora yes i reckon it sounds more like 6 too as you both shared the wish to tile walk, one of you had to back down. Sounds like a scene from some romantic comedy film, maybe you and he had more in common than a compulsion to tile walk ..?

 

[rodaki]

...so in your tile walking scenario Dora yes i reckon it sounds more like 6 too as you both shared the wish to tile walk, one of you had to back down. Sounds like a scene from some romantic comedy film, maybe you and he had more in common than a compulsion to tile walk ..?

lol! it did seem like it would turn out a 6 situation from afar, but coming closer it turned out a 38 . . I remember thinking 'what am I gonna do if it turns out we're heading right towards each other?' Don't know why, I was really fixed in walking my line (weird, I know )
it did have an eerie feeling though, the whole thing . . it kinda frightened me . .

 

[dobro p]

couple thoughts..

For me, 38 is about individuality, and that it is natural to encounter countervailing energy. It's also easy to be friends with an opposite nature from our own, if we have important things in common. It's the ones most like us that we can't get along with.

I like how you and Frank and Bamboo bring out the 'sibling rivalry' element - a pair of sisters, a pair of leos, a pair of similarities. That works well with the Hex 37 connection.

 

[bamboo]

couple thoughts..

It's also easy to be friends with an opposite nature from our own, if we have important things in common. It's the ones most like us that we can't get along with.

Boy , is that ever true, come to think of it!

and now I must renage on my statement...me and my sister? we are definitely a 6 situation. two Leo risings with big heads who never cease trying to butt each other off the playing field.

 

[fkegan]

I like how you and Frank and Bamboo bring out the 'sibling rivalry' element - a pair of sisters, a pair of leos, a pair of similarities. That works well with the Hex 37 connection.

Hi Dobro,

Hex 38 as an 8th hexagram is the positive ultimate result (of family as the expression and result of monogamous love and commitment, hex 31). Hex37 is the negative polar dyad of this pair--the background where the family forms. In this perspective hex 37 Family is the structure of the family household and hex 38 is the dynamic energy of the family members.

This illustrates that the issue in hex 38 is to find separate spaces and activities for the peaceful individual development of the two younger sisters screaming at each other when forced to share the same space (cf. Wilhelm intro to hex 38 "...although they live in the same house they belong to different men..." [personally, I prefer the image of them stuck inside due to rain and thus not able to play outside in their different ways, but Wilhelm is translating the traditional Confucian commentaries]).

Hex 6 as the 6th hexagram of its decad is a final product. The Chinese character for the name of this hexagram (cf. Wieger,S.J.) is a pictograph of a mouth talking angrily with the commentary it refers to a crowd on the grounds that when a crowd gathers arguments and conflicts are the natural expected result like the term trivial meaning commercial, as in the chemistry jargon that the trivial name is the trade name or brand of a chemical. This from the experience in the ancient Roman world that where three roads [tri via] intersected a market was sure to be found. It would be the closest point between six cities and thus a convenient location for trade.

With a crowd of individuals it is a convenient place for each to express themselves and thus to get into conflict with one another. That is why a big deal is made about the fifth line being Yang and the ruler of the hexagram as the resolution of hex 6 conflict requires some worthy and respected arbiter to sort things out in an objective and just way.

This differs from hex 38 in that there isn't any underlying personal bond between the parties in conflict, they don't just need their own space, they are different folks with different views and they need to each limit themselves to their own reasonable turf and not slop over into dumping unjustly onto the neighbor's turf.

Frank