Confusing love story, 19.0, 59.2 and polyamory

[lucuma]

Here’s the backup story, it’s long but sassy so please bear with me:

I met a younger man in a venue (he’s a musician, so am I. He’s 13 years my junior). We went out on a date and kissed. He told me he was in an open relationship, I said I was not into that so we should remain friends, which he said it was ok.
A couple of months later he showed up at a dj gig of mine. We chatted and I told him I wanted to form a group to play some new songs I had. He immediately asked to join as a bass player which I thought it was cool. I’m not used to see this kind of enthusiasm on musicians of my age.

Days later he asked me out again, and we went hiking. It was the funniest and liveliest date I ever had! We had lots of chemistry, shared intimacy moments and hold hands. We didn’t kiss but for me it was a great start. I felt very much infatuated by him.

I must say I thought he was out of this open relationship thing that’s why I accepted the second date. It turns out he wasn’t (he told me a few days later), but his gf is traveling and will be back in 3 months. I felt leaded on, but didn’t want to end the friendship as he really took the band project in his hands, and got us a drummer and a place to rehearsal. This for me is not only helpful but also so very joyful as I’ve been struggling with personal and family problems for the last couple of years, depressed and not able to play music as I would have liked to. Also the truth is that in all those weeks I felt we’d grown very fond of each other.

Anyway, the night we talked things over (the third date) we ended up kissing in my car. It was heated and romantic (I told him I loved him and he said he loved me too).

After that there were no more romantic encounters between us as I told him I still didn’t want to be part of a polyamory thing with someone who already had a primary relationship.

Right now I feel I’m getting mixed signals from him all the time. He talks to me every day, independently of our band group chat, asks me to tell him when I get home, sends me music and pics of his day, etc. In these days I came to realize that I like him so much now I wouldn’t mind to try the open relationship thing, at least for a summer fling and to have some fun. But whenever I try to ask him out so I can tell him this, he backs off, changes subjects and so on, sort of avoiding a date situation with me.

I asked two questions, what to do in this situation? 19.0. Should I persevere in this approach because a great new thing is coming?
I’ve read this cast points to maintaining low expectations and being patient otherwise there’s the misfortune of the eight month.
But unchanging could it mean the situation will remain the same, ie purely plathonic?

Also, I asked a second question out of despair and thinking this is just unrequited love.

How to overcome this heartbreak? And received 59.2 to 20, which I read as let things disperse, don’t initiate personal contact other than band-related, don’t try to hold onto it. There’s probably something I’m not clearly seeing that requires me to back off so I can get a better perspective (20). Could it mean stop answering his personal messages too? I really want to keep playing together, besides my obvious feelings for him.

Your insights are much appreciated,

 

[Jack Tyler]

Meet his other half and be friends with her for eight months and accept the distance by the combined circumstance of 1. him not submitting to private time currently and 2. Your tentative feelings about open relationships. This will give you a bigger perspective regarding your heart. You may not have to overcome heartbreak. You may naturally feel better about not proceeding. Overcoming heartbreak is easier sooner than later, he knows this and "they" may have your best interests in mind, knowing you may not be in it just for a fling. I am a little socially autistic imo so forgive me for jumping in.

 

[lucuma]

I thought this was a very kind and eye opening answer, thank you @Jack Tyler.
How would you derive these thoughts from the hexagrams?

 

[marybluesky]

Hello,

Not sure about 19, it may mean to be as straight-forward as possible: ask him on a date, confess feelings, etc. Not back off. That's how you may free yourself.

59.2 says go for what conceal and supports you, and the regrets pass.

 

[lucuma]

This was very helpful, thank you @marybluesky
I will come back with updates when there’re any.

 

[MeltingPot247]

I personally believe it is possible to genuinely love more than one person at a time - we are this way with friends and family, so why not with intimate partners?

I will come back and properly assess the hexagram and lines, sharing my perspective and insight on them to see if they fit for you... But aside from that, I have four years experience with a poly-amorous man and can provide insight into this kind of relationship setting. Perhaps via online clarity DM if you're interested.

For now I have personal matters to attend to.

Love and light.

 

[lucuma]

I personally believe it is possible to genuinely love more than one person at a time - we are this way with friends and family, so why not with intimate partners?

I will come back and properly assess the hexagram and lines, sharing my perspective and insight on them to see if they fit for you... But aside from that, I have four years experience with a poly-amorous man and can provide insight into this kind of relationship setting. Perhaps via online clarity DM if you're interested.

For now I have personal matters to attend to.

Love and light.

I think that’s a great suggestion and I will surely DM you on this matter. Thank you for sharing @MeltingPot247 and love and light to you aswell.

 

[moss elk]

I personally believe it is possible to genuinely love more than one person at a time - we are this way with friends and family, so why not with intimate partners?

The modern 21st century polyamorist can often be a very selfish and vain person.
(Who kids themself that they are enlightened)
(The Teenagers I knew were mostly polyamorous, I think it's a developmental stage)

Because they get:
1- the safety of a commitment at home
2- the permission to play/sex with anyone they wish to.
3-insulation from a true deep committed relationship.
4-are inconsiderate of others, as in this thread, where she says what she wants,
And then her wishes are completely disregarded by him. Selfish selfish selfish boy.
5-the vast majority of sexual relations have the potential to create babies,
Babies need devoted parents, not inconsiderate parents who value their own sexual gratification above the
needs of others.

Babies aside: She shared her inner truth 61, and to this man: it was worthless to him.
He just kept pushing his agenda.

Find someone that loves YOU lacuna.
This man loves PLAY.

The basis for polyamory in ancient times was sensible and financial as in:
One guy has a bunch of crop and cows,
and consequently multiple female member's survival was helped by the arrangement.

Regarding your 59.2 reading:
Go now to the things & people that actually support you:

Your favorite chair, nana's cookies, an old and true friend, your love of lint ball art,
Power chords, Good music...etc
Whatever ACTUALLY supports you, instead of this selfish handsome musical boy.

Speaking as a handsome ex-guitar/bass guy...
many males I know who got into making music did it for the sole purpose of picking up chicks. <---Notice that last 's'

 

[moss elk]

Here’s the backup story...

 

[redoleander]

19UC is a bit mysterious to me tbh. I think it can mean to allow things to happen naturally; personally I don’t see it as you distancing yourself. 59.2 > 20 is about going to what supports you, which makes sense in this situation. If the support is unbalanced (you heavily centering him for support) you might get tipped over since he has another source of support as well in his partner. The question of him avoiding your conversation… I wonder if you just wrote him what you are thinking and feeling and simply put it out there, then see what happens? That way you can both know if you’re mutually in the same place before you meet up again in that way? Since it’s 19UC I guess it could also mean not to rush that either. I don’t really see it being about walking away though, personally. Maybe more just getting closer to see what’s really there for you.

 

[marybluesky]

@MeltingPot247 I've followed your story from the start and am happy that polyamory has worked well for you. I may have a discussion with you about that.

My observations have been very much in line with what Moss Elk has described:

The modern 21st century polyamorist can often be a very selfish and vain person.
(Who kids themself that they are enlightened)
(The Teenagers I knew were mostly polyamorous, I think it's a developmental stage)

Because they get:
1- the safety of a commitment at home
2- the permission to play/sex with anyone they wish to.
3-insulation from a true deep committed relationship.
4-are inconsiderate of others, as in this thread, where she says what she wants,
And then her wishes are completely disregarded by him. Selfish selfish selfish boy.
5-the vast majority of sexual relations have the potential to create babies,
Babies need devoted parents, not inconsiderate parents who value their own sexual gratification above the
needs of others.

Babies aside: She shared her inner truth 61, and to this man: it was worthless to him.
He just kept pushing his agenda.

Couldn't describe better than this.

The open relationship wishers (I didn't find any better term) I've encountered during past few years demanded the emotional security of a committed relationship without offering any commitment or emotional support. They avoided having quality time/romantic moments/sex with their partners in a regular basis, rather wanted her to be present as they wished (around once or twice a month) & go afterward without demanding anything.

They were indeed inconsiderate of others' wishes/needs: they pushed for the "open" thing after knowing that the other party might be hurt by that. Their justification: "I've told her/you from the start that I couldn't be committed, so what?". Hypocritical sincerity. If you can't offer what the other needs, let her go. Don't lead her on, or worse, push for your selfish needs.

In short, they want all benefits of a relationship without any responsibility.

The basis for polyamory in ancient times was sensible and financial as in:
One guy has a bunch of crop and cows,
and consequently multiple female member's survival was helped by the arrangement.

In fact the powerful guy/alpha male took the biggest responsibility. The exact opposite of the modern open-relationshippers I've met.

many males I know who got into making music did it for the sole purpose of picking up chicks. <---Notice that last 's'

That's right.

 

[moss elk]

In short, they want all benefits of a relationship without any responsibility.

Right, as in 'why buy the cow, when the milk is given freely? '

 

[Trojina]

Not related to any casts...yet, and haven't read all replies but..the title is 'confusing love story'...this isn't confusing it's pretty clear

Right now I feel I’m getting mixed signals from him all the time. He talks to me every day, independently of our band group chat, asks me to tell him when I get home, sends me music and pics of his day, etc. In these days I came to realize that I like him so much now I wouldn’t mind to try the open relationship thing, at least for a summer fling and to have some fun. But whenever I try to ask him out so I can tell him this, he backs off, changes subjects and so on, sort of avoiding a date situation with me.

Waste of Space. It's as simple as that. It's not complicated. He's holding you in the capacity he wants you and offering you absolutely nothing at all....except the drummer and the space I suppose but is it worth being totally emotionally screwed over for those things? I don't think so because he can really mess your head up and you could be living with the fall out for years. He will cost you dearly if you let this go on.

It's just a very old story. A young man trying to keep his options open, enjoying you but being very careful never to offer you anything solid.

I asked two questions, what to do in this situation? 19.0. Should I persevere in this approach because a great new thing is coming?
I’ve read this cast points to maintaining low expectations and being patient otherwise there’s the misfortune of the eight month.
But unchanging could it mean the situation will remain the same, ie purely plathonic?

Hmm what to do in this situation? Nearing?


‘Above the lake is earth. Nearing.
Noble lucuma teaches and reflects untiringly,
Accepts and protects the people without limit.’

I think perhaps this is about assuming responsibility yourself and being open to approach from a greater intelligence wherever that might be from, prayer, meditation, I don't know. It's a hard answer to apply and I can't say I'm that much the wiser when I look at 19uc in my journal. What I see in my journal are things which were quite emotionally hard. I can't be much help with 19uc here but I think perhaps a source of wisdom approaches you, maybe even your own wisdom, the wisdom of your gran, your older relatives because this is a spiritual nearing and caring for by ancestors, those who came before you who watch over you now. It might even help to think of anyone who has guided you even if they have died now, what would they tell you. Sometimes it can be helpful just to think of what your favourite grandmother would say to you about this. Do you think she'd tell you to be on call for this guy? I bet she wouldn't because at her age she knows how life is short and women don't have all the time men have to find someone and have kids if they want than men do and he is a no hoper in that regard and you haven't got the time. Or, to copy Mykey 'it may be she would say nothing like that at all'....I just think most older women would tell you to move on. Maybe we are your 19 right here.

How to overcome this heartbreak? And received 59.2 to 20, which I read as let things disperse, don’t initiate personal contact other than band-related, don’t try to hold onto it. There’s probably something I’m not clearly seeing that requires me to back off so I can get a better perspective (20). Could it mean stop answering his personal messages too? I really want to keep playing together, besides my obvious feelings for him.

Your insights are much appreciated,

Yes it is unrequited love, he isn't showing you love. 59.2 again look beyond this with wisdom, go to what you know to be truly reliable truly there for you. Is he there for you? Would he came straight to you if you were sick or depressed? He can't even make a date, he's no use to you.



He's playing you, contacting you all the time, wanting your company but not a date? He wants you to be confused, that's exactly how it suits him as then you are doubting your own sanity and starting to think it's normal to be treated this way, hovering there, not leaving him but not able to ask for anything either. Don't fall into this old trap and think it's 'confusing' it's old as the hills and you're playing the part for him. Change that. Take responsibility (19) for your feelings, take charge of this don't be screwed over because this is emotional theft, it's dishonest, cowardly and most of all selfish.


On the one hand 19 can be quite ethereal with the nearing of the wise but also it does ask you to take charge, to handle things.

 

[marybluesky]

@moss elk as someone who lives in a traditional country, I'd say the classic relationship/family doesn't work any better than the emerging modern forms. Otherwise young people didn't refuse it.

Still I tell romantic people to avoid such situations. I had false ideas about love & romance myself.

Maybe that's the time to evolve, to mange our emotions another way. But as long as we don't know how, maybe it's better to protect ourselves. MAYBE.

 

[moss elk]

as someone who lives in a traditional country, I'd say the classic relationship/family doesn't work any better than the emerging modern forms.

We are all learning,
Individuals and societies.

What could we truly call the Best way?
What works, is what's best.

Are the people happy/content & healthy & productive & not harming/harmed?
Then it's great.
Variety is part of nature and should be expected to occur within human beings,
So different ways can achieve the desired result, as long as the ways involve love and respect.

I had false ideas about love & romance myself.

Most everyone has.
Compatibility is a Real Thing.

 

[lucuma]

I really appreciate your points of view even though I feel you are seeing the situation (and him) in a mostly unfavorable light.

He is 23 and I knew from the beginning that this wasn’t going to be a long term affair, if anything. I have my own life, I’m a mother, divorced from my son’s father, I have my own job, etc. My life is pretty complicated (my son has cerebral palsy) and kind of sad and lonely tbh. This person helped me out putting up a project I really wanted to materialize. May sound silly but since I’m pretty much occupied by work and my son’s therapy, I haven’t been able to do anything for myself, only for the sake of doing something I love, for the last 7 years.
So meeting him was really helpful in that regard.
Also, when we talked I told him I wanted the musical project to be the priority -no matter what happened between us. And he agreed. That’s how important music, and this band, are for me.

@Trojina you’re right, my grandmother would probably tell me to stop fantasizing about this young man. Actually she would say something like “he’s too good looking for you, some other girl will steal him away from you, so stop this and go find an uglier one.”
He is probably immature regarding love, but, to be fair, he told me right away about his relationship status. Other guys could have lied about it just to get laid.

I know most of us are not used to open relationships (my first reaction as I said was to run away) but this is something actually happening between younger people. I can’t say I agree, but I see where it comes from -traditional marriage hasn’t exactly proved happy for a lot of people either, that on a positive note and not to mention the material and historical aspects of the matter, and the biological and psychological ones that @moss elk and @marybluesky mentioned.
That said, I’m still a monogamous person, and, whether this was going to be a short fling or not, I hoped it to be exclusive.

Anyway I also told him I wanted to remain just friends while he was in a relationship, so I guess that's why he wouldn’t take it any further. I see he may be confused too -he likes me, probably admires me, cares for me, we have chemistry and fun, he just has deeper feelings for his gf.

Otoh, after reading @redoleander ‘s take on 19.0 (thanks!!) I talked to him about the situation. I said I wasn’t sure where we were standing and that I’d like to go out with him sometime. I tried to keep it light as I said before playing music is my first interest here. He said he does like me a lot and suggested we go out on a date next weekend. So that will probably lead to some fun moments -nothing more than that.

@Trojina you’re always so insightful and I see why you are advising as the voice of my ancestors -to them this is probably a waste of time, not leading to life lasting love and marriage, not leading to anything spiritually improving. Thank you for that.
It opened my eyes a bit because yes, why should I waste my time thinking this is something it’s not? Today I was feeling sick and my doctor said I should isolate myself, probably Covid, so that date isn’t happening next weekend anyway, and I don’t know how I will emerge from all this when it’s over. One thing for sure, I’m turning to my comforting stuff and my good old friends and family, all the people and things that give me support.

I just know there’s no point in deceiving myself.

 

[Trojina]

I should say, in case it wasn't obvious, my post was far more weighted to opinion than the reading. 19uc in itself isn't shouting 'keep away from him' and it could indeed be saying as Mary initially said to approach, to be open about what you want. The second reading, 59.2 seems more clear about keeping yourself secure with what you know.

When I read the situation as described well it really struck me that it wouldn't be something good for you not necessarily because he's such an awful person, apart from being self centred, but that he appears to be trying to keep all his options open and causing you confusion, self doubt and stress. You have to be clear what's good for you but yes I can see he's opened some doors for you in your life and that's good.

I just don't want you to think Yi has said exactly what I said. I have noted 19uc for quite hard emotional times, it's not the happiest hexagram for me and if you look at the lines there's a fair bit of wailing in it. However it is also for me the most mysterious hexagram connected to approach from the spiritual realm as well as being ready to take responsibility. It's the hexagram of springtime, where there's work to be done but tangible results aren't seen when sowing seed but much later. I think the misfortune mentioned in the 8th month is where the work hasn't been done. If the work isn't done in the spring there's no harvest.

It's not that I'm backtracking I just want to be clear 19uc here isn't connected to my opinion, it's such a neutral answer. I couldn't come up with 'he's a waste of space' from the 19 there so as long as you know that you can ignore me and hear Yi or hear me and ignore Yi or decide if me and Yi are on the same page or not.

 

[IrfanK]

Right, as in 'why buy the cow, when the milk is given freely? '

Sorry, Moss, but if there's one expression I hate when people are discussing open relationships, it's that one. Is that what you think a marriage or committed relationship is? Buying a cow so you have regular access to her milk?

Yuck.

Although I know one poly woman who came up with her own version as a revenge: Why buy the bull when all I want is a little sausage?

 

[marybluesky]

Sorry, Moss, but if there's one expression I hate when people are discussing open relationships, it's that one. Is that what you think a marriage or committed relationship is? Buying a cow so you have regular access to her milk?

Yuck.

Although I know one poly woman who came up with her own version as a revenge: Why buy the bull when all I want is a little sausage?

I (have always) found the "cow" saying very offensive and wanted to edit my last night post to say it, but Moss Elk reacted to my post when I was typing so I let it go. The "bull" example is a good equivalent for it.

Plus, if the woman is compared to a cow and the sex to the milk, it means men marry only to have sex & they are milking & exploiting the woman who, in the cow position, is unwilling to do so but has to bear it.

P.S: I'm sorry and angry about what the human race has done to animals. The only thing I could do for it was to limit the use of animal-based products.

 

[MeltingPot247]

Well this went off since I was last here.

Such a touchy subject for many I guess...

I can fully empathize what it's like for you Lucuma having your son to care for. I've had a heart for every person of all age, race and ability or disability since I was young - and worked with so many people in my 35 years of life.

I don't want to take this off topic - I simply wanted to give you a little background about me so you *might* see where I'm coming from.

A lot of people have gotten heated on here about how they perceive this young man to be treating you - based on themselves, their own experiences... But they've not met, nor talked to this young man and might not see him for who he really is... Just place him into a generic category of narcissist and player simply because he openly admits to being willing and able to love more than one partner or potential partner at a time.

Does no one else here not tell themselves that it doesn't matter if someone else loves you or not? It matters more if you truly love yourself.


Yes we are human and full of emotions... Moods can swing - but as Marybluesky touched on, there is a way to consciously and mindfully manage our own emotions better so that we don't expect or depend on anyone else to be accountable for our feelings.

Simply looking around and admiring the uniqueness of every living being on Earth is a great place to start when feeling emotional and needing to ground yourself in yourself - not worrying about what another person, in a separate body, with a separate life force is doing away from you.

If you ever feel sad or overwhelmed with feelings for another person - perhaps find a song that resonates with you, that would cheer you up...mine is *What a Wonderful World*.

In spite of everything I've said above, I realise a lot of people want and believe in traditional exclusive relationships... I just wonder how many people here have been in them... And how many they've had over a lifetime.

If you've had more than one, not due to a loved one passing - then maybe just maybe that's proof you can love more than one person even if not in the same month or year ... Some people go from one relationship to another - the poly-amorous people I know treat all their partners well and don't ever want to lose or let down any one of them ever... But as with life there is death.

It's a balancing act of kindness, love, respect, understanding - not just sex

As if sex is the only reason why people stay together and/or interested in each other long term

 

[Trojina]

I don't think the issue or question here is about whether we can love more than one person or not. It's more about that he isn't returning an equal level of interest as he seems to be avoiding dating, or he did seem to be avoiding dating. I just don't think the question is really all about ideology it's more practical. The question isn't 'are multi ongoing relationships a good thing' but how she deals with the situation now.

If a person doesn't want a polyamory relationship there is no reason they should have one.

Does no one else here not tell themselves that it doesn't matter if someone else loves you or not? It matters more if you truly love yourself.

You can love yourself with or without someone hence for them to bring something additional to you if you love them being loved back would seem desirable. I don't know how the above statement applies to the situation. Are you saying it's okay if he doesn't love her or show much interest or commitment because she can love herself? The point of being in a relationship surely is not just we go on loving ourselves we can do that by ourselves, the point is being loved back.

 

[redoleander]

EDIT! In scrolling through I missed your last update @lucuma. I see you’ve already communicated. That’s great.

I think many of the comments here are unfairly negatively biased. I’m saying that because I think it would be sad if you were to walk away from something you’re actually open to, in your own heart, because of others’ general conceptions that are not specific to this person. He actually did offer you concrete connection. He pursued you multiple times. And has shown up in your life in other very positive ways. As a friend and musician and collaborator. He sounds like a catalyzing person for you, who helps things move. Whether or not polyamory is for you, that remains to be seen. But how would you know if you don’t try?

I’m not really passionately for or against you pursuing things further but it’s very important to say that the casts do not say any of the negative things that have been written here, they simply don’t. And you posted your casts for interpretation. There can be a tendency on here lead with really strong negative opinions about entire careers, courses of study, types of relationships — everything. And it’s almost always unrelated to the casts. (Personally, I think that is unethical.) But aside from that, your casts were not bad! He might be apprehensive because you’ve stated polyamory is not for you. That would not be respectful to his current partner, to date someone interested in monogamy. It also might jeopardize your band. So, there are a few sides to everything. That is why I suggested letting him know about your change of heart.

Maybe this is as far as it will go and that alone will have been a spark of some kind. But if you’re curious for more, why listen to the voice of your grandmother this time? He’s not too good looking or anything else for you or he wouldn’t be so interested in you. There is always risk of getting hurt. And you might. You know that. But we come to the Oracle for a wider perspective. Not old, stale opinions rooted 50-100 years ago in specific sections of society (because polyamory existed then, too.) There’s more to life than other people’s opinions!

Kim Tallbear, for example, is an indigenous writer and scholar who explains the link between colonialism and marriage/monogamy, and how that whole structure was all about property and came from colonial influences. She has a whole blog and you can hear on podcasts too! It’s interesting and helpful. YOU get to define what you want in relationships. Maybe there’s more to learn about that.

 

[moss elk]

Sorry, Moss, but if there's one expression I hate..

Hate isn't good for the heart. :]

As you know, I didn't invent the phrase.

Let's look at the wisdom in it though,
And create a new phrase before dismissing the wisdom altogether....
Or in other words:
Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater

People don't change unless they have to,
The person is getting what he wants, so why would he change?

I Have to go to work now,
So,
You fine people can spend your energy to create a replacememt saying that captures the *reality* and the *wisdom* of the expression.

I identify as the spiffy quadrant of the milkyway,
So try not to use any phrases that would offend m.e.

 

[hilary]

Moderation note: Redoleander has raised the issue of how much personal opinion should come into (or replace) I Ching interpretation here. That's not something we should tackle on Lucuma's reading thread, so I have moved posts on that topic over here:

https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/index.php?threads/personal-opinion-vs-interpretation-in-readings.33537/

 

[MeltingPot247]

19UC is a bit mysterious to me tbh. I think it can mean to allow things to happen naturally; personally I don’t see it as you distancing yourself. 59.2 > 20 is about going to what supports you, which makes sense in this situation. If the support is unbalanced (you heavily centering him for support) you might get tipped over since he has another source of support as well in his partner. The question of him avoiding your conversation… I wonder if you just wrote him what you are thinking and feeling and simply put it out there, then see what happens? That way you can both know if you’re mutually in the same place before you meet up again in that way? Since it’s 19UC I guess it could also mean not to rush that either. I don’t really see it being about walking away though, personally. Maybe more just getting closer to see what’s really there for you.

I should add that in my own four year relationship with a poly-amorous man - I have cast 19 unchanging and 59.2 more than a few times over the years. Specifically this part of the above quote resonates with my experience of the lines in the past to present:

"19UC is a bit mysterious to me tbh. I think it can mean to allow things to happen naturally; personally I don’t see it as you distancing yourself. 59.2 > 20 is about going to what supports you, which makes sense in this situation. If the support is unbalanced (you heavily centering him for support) you might get tipped over since he has another source of support as well in his partner"

Back story: I'm personally not *intimately* poly-amorous with most people, that's a personal choice, due to lack of attraction to majority of the population lol... But like others, I do love and care for many people daily and in most cases with professional boundaries/ social distance and not just because of Covid. From my community/social work type roles in the past I found that clients became dependant on myself / other staff more than empowered which is why I changed careers to help teach others to rely on themselves more - and for me how this relates to love, relationships and these particulars casts for you Lucuma of 19 nearing, approach and 59.2 Dispersing, fleeing to what supports you - it's a reminder or acknowledgement that over time, potentially with some pain and heartache along the way - it is possible for you to find balance between this person, yourself, your son and the rest of your life with other people - whatever supports you is not necessarily lots of people in general, your primary support can be yourself. Some individuals are naturally more resilient and strong on their own than others - it's not a facade...it takes time and energy to develop in ones character like any tangible or practical skill.

Earlier you mentioned you believe he has deeper feelings for his current girlfriend - when I was a newbie to my relationship with poly-amorous man ...there were moments I assumed I was being lead on, that he didn't care, that I was a fool and idiot - what started off as a doubtful experiment has turned into a trigger for an outpouring and overflow of more love and respect from me to others and a solid friendship with a guy who is for some odd reason still the only main one for me. Things were regular from the start, and he spends most of his time with me now - but I know of the others he met before me and that he still spends time with them too. I care for them as I know that he cares for and about them (and me).

Trojina asked earlier, something along the lines of "does it not matter if they don't show love or respect in return etc" ... It 100 per cent does matter - I would not be in this relationship still if I did not feel loved and respected.

I've mentioned in other posts, some women are in relationships where men put them down, or physically and sexually abuse them - those are the men and relationships to stay clear of (and vice versa where women abuse men, which is statistically rarer).

Men like the one I am with are rare - he is kind and empathetic, it's not all peaches and cream, but the love is genuine. Perhaps it could be the same with the fellow you've mentioned.

As for the saying "why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free"...

This cow is not for sale and never will be. I don't need to be bought or taken care of by one man - and neither do you.

Every single one of us, can look after ourselves - eat healthy, exercise, sing, dance, walk in nature... And yes its nice to do those activities with others - if not a partner, than with your friends, parents, children...

An open relationship works best, easiest to handle when

A) You've got plans and goals for your life outside of finding or being with one person in particular.

2) When you keep yourself busy with activities and other people you love.

The more open we are, the more we receive... If you treat yourself like a Queen and the one you want a relationship with like a King (not in a slavish way) - How can anything go wrong ?

Best wishes

P.S Why do people call one on one relationships *Not Selfish* and poly-amorous ones *Selfish*

In the former you're asking and/ or demanding/ requiring or crying for someone to give their love and their body exclusively to you - and to not share the kind of love and happiness they give you with anybody else.

Another's body does not belong to us... doesn't have to. Honesty and Consent are so much more important.

I said it before *Sex* alone is not love - there are many ways poly and non poly people show, give, receive love - but so many people when giving relationship advice or insight focus on the sex factor - which is more representative of each individuals state of mind - than it is fact or truth about other people and their relationship possibilities.

 

[redoleander]

@MeltingPot247 I appreciate your comments here. I have only been in monogamous relationships but I know many polyamorous people. One thing I think is really interesting is that negative experiences within polyamory are considered reasons why polyamory is bad. But negative experiences within monogamy are rarely considered reasons why monogamy is bad. Those are seen as specific experiences with specific people, a particular dynamic. And you’re meant to keep trying until you find the right one. But as soon as someone has a negative polyamorous experience it feels like it rains down “see polyamory is bad”. This whole forum is full of people asking questions about difficult love experiences but you’ll never seen anyone hopping in to say “that’s because you’re monogamous!” It’s just responded to like any other situation, without that bias.

 

[Trojina]

There's a problem with this casting of general aspersions about people here.

This whole forum is full of people asking questions about difficult love experiences but you’ll never seen anyone hopping in to say “that’s because you’re monogamous!” It’s just responded to like any other situation, without that bias.

It is being discussed here.

https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/index.php?threads/personal-opinion-vs-interpretation-in-readings.33537/

 

[lucuma]

Just to clarify. I think my question was indeed related to polyamory because I was thinking about what to do in this situation (new for me) in which I find myself, a monogamous person, interested in another person who is in an open relationship... and finding much real affection and communication in this new friendship.

I was trying to broaden my perspective so I asked what to do. Because at the beginning I wasn’t interested in being part of this, but later on, after spending more time together, I came to realize that maybe I could try it -hence the “confusion” mentioned in the title.

I think it’s inevitable that we end up discussing these topics -love, partnership, friendship, loyalty, sex, fear... it’s part of the human experience... I am just very grateful for all the wide variety of insights I have been given here.

 

[kestrelw1ngs]

Just here to back up Trojina et al that 19 UC for me has rarely been a blessed, positive situation, and more of a "you are held and supported" through a difficult situation that requires a lot of patience, particularly by ancestors, elders, or guiding figures. Where missteps can cause pain so I've had to "lean in" onto those guiding figures or just trust where the universe is leading me. Difficult but worthwhile.

In deciding what you are comfortable with in a partnership, perhaps turning towards educational books, podcasts, finding a supportive counselor or therapist could bring much support into your network!
I really admire the podcast MultiAmory, they dive in deep and respectfully to the topics of healthy, non-traditional and traditional relationships. I've learned much from them about how to navigate boundaries, and avoid being taken advantage of, decide my own limits and desires.
Now to put all that into practice is another story....but I digress.

 

[lucuma]

I wanted to provide an update. The young fellow and me dated for 2 months. There were loving words and such, but I wanted more commitment and he didn’t, so we ended it but decided to continue the music stuff together.
His open relationship partner came back from her trip and they eventually broke up.
He is still part of my life as we are bandmates, and sometimes he seems to try to hook up again. I notice he’s still very attracted to me, but at this point I know this man can be easily attracted to anyone. He’s a flirt, and I’d rather keep him at a distance.
He said he wanted a polyamory thing, but sometimes he acted confusing and immature. He was not really openly communicating things to me as I would have liked -but he tried.
In retrospective, 19 meant the affair did last a few sweet and confusing months, and it taught me something valuable about my intuition.