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"COVID is a Hoax" Mob: 37.5 to 22 and 46.2 to 15

Fanofenka

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For the past few months, there are many who believe that COVID is a hoax. We have seen people dying from COVID parties. A tarot card reader from Australia said that the mob of COVID deniers doesn't want their livelihoods to change.

What kinds of people believe that COVID-19 is a hoax? 37.5 People in the Home (The Family, The Clan) to 22 Beauty (Grace).
Hex 37: People in the home. A woman's constancy is fruitful. (Oracle) Wind comes forth originally from fire: People in the Home. A noble one's words have substance and her actions are consistent. (Image)
Line 5: The king enters his own home. Do not worry. Good fortune.
Hex 22: Beauty. Creating success. Small yield from having a direction to go. (Oracle) Below the mountain is fire: Beauty. A noble one brings light to the many standards, but does not venture to pass judgement. (Image)
37.5=The deniers drank the kool-aid.
22=They will follow one who believes them.

What will happen to the COVID-19 deniers in the coming months? 46.2 Pushing Upward to 15 Integrity (Modesty).
Hex 46: Pushing upward, creating success from the source. Make use of seeing great people. Do not worry. Set forth to the south, good fortune. (Oracle) Centre of the earth gives birth to wood: Pushing Upward. A noble one with patient character Builds up small things to attain the high and great. (Image)
Line 2: True and confident, And so it is fruitful to make the summer offering. No mistake.
Hex 15: Integrity creates success. A noble one completes it. (Oracle) In the centre of the earth there is a mountain: Integrity. A noble one reduces what is too much and increases what is diminished. Weighing things up to even out their distribution. (Image)
46.2=They will eventually accept the facts.
15=The deniers have their own standards.
 

moss elk

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The people in the u.s. that believe covid is a hoax are parroting what their 'father' in 37.5 (t.rump) said about it: that it is a partisan democratic hoax.

See one of his 'children' calling people who wear masks 'democratic pigs'


And here, A trumpster pulls a gun on his waiter who said he had to wear a mask:


And to this very day he is still trying to pretend covid isn't real, he just said this:

"Think of this, if we didn't do testing, instead of testing over 40 million people, if we did half the testing we would have half the cases,"

The logic of this imp is peccable.
 
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rosada

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"What kinds of people believe that COVID -19 is a hoax?"

Those who look to Trump as being a king or a father figure, someone who can be trusted to look after their best interests and someone who should be trusted without question. 22. A lovely fantasy!

I don't understand 15. Modesty as indicating deniers have having their own standards, Fanofenka. Can you explain your thinking?
I would have thought (hoped) it meant they would come to a more balanced, less extreme position, but maybe it just means "alternative facts."
 
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Fanofenka

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"What kinds of people believe that COVID -19 is a hoax?"

Those who look to Trump as being a king or a father figure, someone who can be trusted to look after their best interests and someone who should be trusted without question. 22. A lovely fantasy!

I don't understand 15. Modesty as indicating deniers have having their own standards, Fanofenka. Can you explain your thinking?
I would have thought (hoped) it meant they would come to a more balanced, less extreme position, but maybe it just means "alternative facts."
I thought hex 15 can be defined as morals and standards.
 

moss elk

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Have they mentioned how they explain away all the deaths?
 

rosada

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You know, Olga, that is really funny. I never even considered that 37.5 could refer to the believers themselves being the kings in their homes. I just immediately thought it meant the I Ching was saying they were sheeple who needed a leader - Trump - they could follow who would do their thinking for them. But of course the I Ching - ever neutral! - more likely is saying those who believe the virus is a hoax are simply people who like anyone else - any king in their own castle - have the right to their own opinion - and therefore believing the virus is a hoax is not necessarily a sign of being a Trump supporter. I guess I'm not as unbias as I thought!
 

Trojina

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Trojina

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You know, Olga, that is really funny. I never even considered that 37.5 could refer to the believers themselves being the kings in their homes. I just immediately thought it meant the I Ching was saying they were sheeple who needed a leader - Trump - they could follow who would do their thinking for them. But of course the I Ching - ever neutral! - more likely is saying those who believe the virus is a hoax are simply people who like anyone else - any king in their own castle - have the right to their own opinion - and therefore believing the virus is a hoax is not necessarily a sign of being a Trump supporter. I guess I'm not as unbias as I thought!


Maybe it isn't saying anything at all. It's such a disconnected and general question do you really think you have a meaningful answer.

Also I am puzzled because I can't see any place where Olga has said what you are saying she said
 
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Olga Super Star

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Have they mentioned how they explain away all the deaths?
Well yes, they say everything is fake, deaths and statistics are inflated, people are actually dying of something else. Corpses are being sent to kilns and ovens in order to conceal that they didn’t die from coronavirus (and not because they may infect doctors or people dressing them up)..
 
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rosada

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I’ve heard that here in America hospitals are incentivized to say the cause of death is the virus because Medicare reimburses them $10,000 for a covid-19 death but only about $1,000 for pneumonia so the suspicion is that if a patient tests positive for the virus and dies they are said to have died from the virus, even though they really may have died from something else. I don't know if this is true, I'm just elaborating on what Olga is reporting in case those who haven't heard this rumor wonder what the heck she's talking about.
 
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moss elk

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Here in America hospitals are incentivized to say the cause of death is the virus because Medicare reimburses them $10,000 for a covid-19 death but only about $1,000 for pneumonia

When people have H.I.V. and die with pneumonia, it is still because of H.I.V.
There's nothing extraordinary about the medical attribution to the underlying cause.
 

Lavalamp

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What kinds of people believe that COVID-19 is a hoax? 37.5 > 22

22 as context refers to Grace or Public Relations, Manners. Wilhelm/Baynes: "Thus does the superior man proceed when clearing up current affairs. But he dare not decide controversial issues in this way."
So the context appears to be people trying to get back to normal. And that think the issue is not really as bad as claimed.
37.5 This is the ruling line in the hexagram of the family. " Wilhelm/Baynes: As a king he approaches his family. Fear not. Good fortune."
So it's people that have families to take care of, that are not afraid, and that have good fortune. Those are the people saying this is a hoax. 22 suggests the word "hoax" may simply be shorthand slogan, a bumper sticker that things are not as bad as claimed.
I see nothing about self delusion or suicidal "drinking the kool aid" as you interpreted this line, Fanofenka. They have families to take care of.

What will happen to the COVID-19 deniers in the coming months? 46.2 > 15.
15 as context. In terms of political views or party, this is the line of the moderate. The context is one of balance, the middle way that the Yi always advises we try to attain.

46.2 - Legge: "The second line, dynamic, shows its subject with that sincerity which will make even the small offerings of the vernal sacrifice acceptable. There will be no error."
Siu: "The man is an effective but brusque officer serving a weak leader. His upright sincerity and devoted loyalty meet with a favorable response."
What will happen is they will make small sacrifices, and it will all work out for the good without error.

- LL
 
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Fanofenka

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What kinds of people believe that COVID-19 is a hoax? 37.5 > 22

22 as context refers to Grace or Public Relations, Manners. Wilhelm/Baynes: "Thus does the superior man proceed when clearing up current affairs. But he dare not decide controversial issues in this way."
So the context appears to be people trying to get back to normal. And that think the issue is not really as bad as claimed.
37.5 This is the ruling line in the hexagram of the family. " Wilhelm/Baynes: As a king he approaches his family. Fear not. Good fortune."
So it's people that have families to take care of, that are not afraid, and that have good fortune. Those are the people saying this is a hoax. 22 suggests the word "hoax" may simply be shorthand slogan, a bumper sticker that things are not as bad as claimed.
I see nothing about self delusion or suicidal "drinking the kool aid" as you interpreted this line, Fanofenka. They have families to take care of.

What will happen to the COVID-19 deniers in the coming months? 46.2 > 15.
15 as context. In terms of political views or party, this is the line of the moderate. The context is one of balance, the middle way that the Yi always advises we try to attain.

46.2 - Legge: "The second line, dynamic, shows its subject with that sincerity which will make even the small offerings of the vernal sacrifice acceptable. There will be no error."
Siu: "The man is an effective but brusque officer serving a weak leader. His upright sincerity and devoted loyalty meet with a favorable response."
What will happen is they will make small sacrifices, and it will all work out for the good without error.

- LL

I thought the deniers will stay firm with their position.
 

Olga Super Star

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Here in America hospitals are incentivized to say the cause of death is the virus because Medicare reimburses them $10,000
where I live it’s the opposite. At times in some cities they didn’t have time and resources to check if dead people had coronavirus. Since they were not 100% sure they didn’t count as Covid deaths.
 

rosada

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Oh, I thought that story might have been why you said the death and infection numbers are fake. Why do you think the numbers are fake then?
Where do you live, btw?
 

Olga Super Star

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and therefore believing the virus is a hoax is not necessarily a sign of being a Trump supporter.
Here those believing that (the descendants of those accusing the Jews of spreading the Black Fever) are mostly from the radical left, vegan, healthy, seeing conspiracies everywhere. They follow people on the net who do videos about specific stuff they studied themselves without being even doctors (diseases, consequences of Wi-Fi and pesticides, vaccines, etc)
 

Olga Super Star

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Oh, I thought that story might have been why you said the death and infection numbers are fake. Why do you think the numbers are fake then?
I don’t think the numbers are fake, they are probably underestimated, since most people don’t have symptoms at all.
Elk asked how they justify the number of deaths and I listed some of their points.
 

Lavalamp

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There are many different numbers.
If you divide cases found through testing by deaths, you get a 4% US mortality rate.
However antibody testing has shown as many as 85% of all cases of COVID19 are asymptomatic, mild cases that people didn't even know they had it. This antibody testing in two california counties, NYC which found 21% of the population had antibodies ( that's over 2 million unreported cases in NYC alone, ) and in prison studies they found 95% of the cases were unreported and asymptomatic.
So there are 4 or 5 scenarios the CDC devised to calculate the actual mortality rate. The one that most consider most reasonable/down the middle comes up with a 0.4% mortality rate, with another 35% unreported, and do the math on it you end up with a 0.3% mortality rate.
Another issue is reporting, in just the last couple of days 125+ Florida labs had been reporting 100% of their testing for COVID19 came up positive. This being statistically impossible a Local Fox reporter inquired further and it was uncovered these 125 labs had not been reporting negative test results - as is required by law. So the actual positive tests rate was around 9% or so it turned out. That's a huge difference, and the bad reporting had freaked out a lot of people.
There have been so many screw ups, and so much politicization of COVID19 now public health officials have lost some measure of the public's confidence. I don't think you can always blame public health officials, I think Fauci and Birx etc. have been doing the best they can dealing with something we are learning about as we go along. But you can't blame the public either, when one day you tell them there is no need to avoid crowds on Chinese New Year and wear a mask, and a couple months later you tell them the opposite.

- LL
 
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moss elk

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As I mentioned how t.rumps followers view him as a father who has told them not to worry (37.5) and covid as a 'democratic hoax' and his 'children' are parroting what he says...

T.V. personality Chuck Woolery said covid was a hoax and Democrats were lying about it.
t.Rump retweeted Chuck.
Now Chucks son contracted the disease and he deleted his twitter account.


Just before deleting his twitter,
Chuck posted,
"To further clarify and add perspective, Covid-19 is real and it is here. My son tested positive for the virus, and I feel for of those suffering and especially for those who have lost loved ones,"
 
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rosada

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What will happen to the deniers? Perhaps a significant number will agree to wear masks even though they don’t think they are necessary. That would be the small gift. Or perhaps it means they wont, in an effort to show loyalty to the weak leader. 15. Modesty makes me think if people are reasonably healthy and careful they will be fine, but 15. Modesty also means the individual so perhaps this means the results depend more on the individual and can’t be determined by lumping all into one group.
I see this as saying if a person is reasonably careful, balanced, they will be fine.
 

Lavalamp

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22 Indicates perhaps a certain amount of exaggeration I think when people call it " a hoax."
Not everyone who uses that language is in my experience saying there is no such thing as COVID19, actually they are most often saying they feel there has been hyperbolic politicization of the issue and a lot of arbitrary rules imposed that are not based on science or reason.

I am pretty much in the middle. Public Health officials did sometimes get it wrong, but were doing the best they could with what we knew at the time. But some of the rules Governors have made are totally arbitrary and make no sense.
It's a problem but mostly for older people, about 30 kids under 14 have died of COVID19 out of 130,000 in the US. For a perspective on risk, 398 children died of influenza and flu related pneumonia, over 800 children die in car crashes yearly. Your kid is more likely to get killed crossing the street. The consensus among pediatricians seems to be the benefits of schools reopening in the fall outweigh the risks.
Also Germany just came out with a school reopening study that found antibodies in 12 persons out of 2000 tested in a school system, but there had been no outbreak. If children were highly contagious, or hit hard by the disease there would have been. So Germany will reopen schools after summer break as normal in August. Normal doesn't mean without taking measures, I am pretty sure they kept close watch on the adults and did temperature checks, etc. Whatever they did, we should follow their model here in the US.

- LL
 

Lavalamp

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As I mentioned how t.rumps followers view him as a father who has told them not to worry (37.5) and covid as a 'democratic hoax' and his 'children' are parroting what he says...

The question was what kind of people believe it is a hoax?
The direct answer 37.5 is people with families to take care of that are unafraid. There is nothing in the line about people that are blindly following a Father figure. So your view that it's followers of Trump is a bridge too far. Also Trump has never said COVID19 is a hoax. He shut down travel, he quarantined people, shut down the entire economy of the country. To say he thinks COVID19 is a hoax - ridiculous partisan hyperbole.
Dr. Anthony Fauci -
"I'm down at the White House virtually every day with the Taskforce. I'm connected by phone throughout the day and into the night and when I say night, I'm talking twelve, one, two in the morning. I'm not the only one. There's a whole group of us that are doing that. It's every single day.
So I can't imagine that that under any circumstances that anybody could be doing more. I mean, obviously, we're fighting a formidable enemy -- this virus. This virus is a serious issue here."


- LL
 

moss elk

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:rolleyes2:

"Just remember, what you are seeing and what you are reading is not what's happening," "Just stick with us, don't believe the crap you see from these people, the fake news."
DJT to a group of veterans, July 2018

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
— George Orwell, "1984"
 
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Lavalamp

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"Just remember, what you are seeing and what you are reading is not what's happening," "Just stick with us, don't believe the crap you see from these people, the fake news."
DJT to a group of veterans, July 2018

I will take your deflection as conceding my point: President Trump never called COVID19 a hoax and Dr. Fauci and the teams at the CDC and NIH more than back that up.
And in fact in your July 2018 reference, Trump clearly was specifically talking about what you "see and hear" in the Fake News media, on CNN in fake reports. And clearly NOT saying don't believe what you witness personally with your own eyes and ears,
Twisting that into something else is disingenuous, eliminating context - it really isn't honest, Moss Elk.
It is exactly the kind of thing he was talking about.

- LL
 

moss elk

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I'd like to make a casual gentleman's agreement with you. (though I know you will refuse.)
On the basis that you and I probably have many better ways we could spend our time than engaging in fisticuffs, why don't we stop quoting and replying to each others posts until Nov 5th 2020? At that time, one of us can say,
"well I was wrong now wasn't I?,
I'd like to offer an apology for my tunnel vision."
To which the other can say,
"I gladly accept, would you please explain why you thought that way?"
And then an honest conversation could follow.

What do you say?
 

Lavalamp

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How about this proposal of a Gentleman's agreement: you agree to abstain from all political and partisan shots in shared readings, stick to interpreting the Yi, and I won't have to address the shortcomings of fact and reason in your partisan political tracts, here in the public square where ideas are freely exchanged.

- LL
 

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