Dealing with maternal conflict: 37.3->42

[elizabeth]

For many years there has been a great deal of tension between my mother and me, although I was never aware of it until very recently. Having had the time and opportunity to step back and look at it all from a great distance (both literal and psychological), I have realized there are deep issues inside her regarding having a family and children, issues about her own self-esteem and frustrations in her own life that have been projected onto my sister and me in unhealthy ways. Without going into detail at length, I asked the Yi how to best handle dealing with my mother and her treatment of us at this point. I received hex 37 with changing line 3 and then hex 42 Increase.

I take it from these hexagrams that staying silent and (no pun intended) mum is not necessarily the best route. Can someone help define how much "confrontation" is allowed within the framework of these hexagrams?

Details are:
37. Chia Jên / The Family (The Clan)
above Sun The Gentle, Wind
below Li The Clinging, Flame
The Judgement
The Family. The perseverance of the woman furthers.

The Image
Wind comes forth from fire:
The image of The Family.
Thus the superior man has substance in his words
And duration in his way of life.

Change in the third place means:
When tempers flare up in the family,
Too great severity brings remorse.
Good fortune nonetheless.
When woman and child dally and laugh,
It leads in the end to humiliation.

==I take this to mean that the perseverence of the woman (me, not my mother in this case) furthers. Ie to persevere in addressing the conflict. The last two lines of 37.3 aren't quite clear though. Does that mean avoiding the issue leads to humiliation (dallying and playing and not being serious?)

Final hex 42:
42. I / Increase
above Sun The Gentle, Wind
below Chên The Arousing, Thunder

The Judgement
Increase. It furthers one
To undertake something.
It furthers one to cross the great water.

The Image
Wind and thunder: the image of Increase.
Thus the superior man:
If he sees good, he imitates it;
If he has faults, he rids himself of them.

Thanks,
E.

 

[Trojina]

You asked how to deal with your mothers treatment of you, so I feel line 3 is advising fairly firm boundaries - that is firm boundaries for you to lay down with her. You make it clear what treatment you will or won't tolerate. If you manage this seems things turn out okay.

 

[willowfox]

Hi Elizabeth,

Hex 37.3 suggests that your mother was a very strict person when you were young, She did it to instill discipline, to make you learn proper behaviour, in order that you would become a responsible woman. She knew that children who are left to their own devises and never scolded can end up as never do wells. Later on I can only assume that she had regrets about how she treated you when you were young, and formed a guilt complex which in turn created tension between you.

Hex 42 I think that this hex means that she feels that she made a big sacrifice for you when you were growing up, and I think that she feels that you should have shown the proper gratitude by doing what she wanted you to do. That is why there could be the tension now. It seems that you displeased her by your way of life and probably by your choice of occupation. She tried to instill in you her ideas of right and wrong, what makes a person a good person.
Now it is time for you to approach your mother and sort the issue out, be brave and discuss it, tell her that you are now big enough to make the right discisions about what you wish to do with your life but give her respect. She tried to do her best for you but from her point of view. When you go home at Christmas time, raise the issue, clear the air, you will both feel a lot better for it, don't be sacred. Develop a good relationship with her and try to look at her in a good way. You will then *increase* your understanding of the mother/daughter relationship.Clearing the air will bring you joy and happiness (well I hope it does).

 

[ewald]

In my view 37.3 is about being either too harsh or too lenient. It's not good to scold each other, but constantly giggling with each other isn't good either. Both inhibit real communication. (And I don't think, as is suggested in the Wilhelm/Baynes translation, that there is "good fortune nonetheless" in the case of the flaring up of tempers.)

 

[RindaR]

Elizabeth, I think you've got it right.

Rinda

 

[elizabeth]

Hello!

Thanks for all of the replies.

trojanfox- yes, but if I could set boundaries in the first place, we wouldn't have this problem! . More on that in relation to ewald's comment below.

Willowfox, wow. I have no idea how you managed to see all of that, but all of what you wrote is completely correct. What made me stop in my tracks was the part about her making huge sacrifices (she has said as much) and that I should have shown gratitude by doing what she wanted me to do (!!!) holy cow. I cannot believe this is visible even to outsiders through the Yi!

Anyway, I saw my mother in May and almost raised the issue, but didn't. She locks up, shuts down and denies any sort of confrontation. For example, if I were to say "I know you wanted me to be different" she will say "No i didn't". She very much embraces the Victorian Age type of communication, ie, if you bury it under the rug then it doenst exist. She likes the cosmetic appearance of a perfect family and tries to preserve that at all costs. In this case, these issues NEED to be faced (for my own well being and for hers too) but she doesnt see that. She cannot admit to the truth. So I would LOVE (believe me!) to confront her but how to accomplish that, and not have her clam up and shut down, is what I haven't figured out yet... thoughts?

ewald, You have a good point. I have only confronted my mother once in my life when my brother forgot my birthday and she blew up at me, blamed me, said that I should stop being selfish. I asked her not to defend him, said we are all adults and what he remembers or forgets is not her responsibility. She shut down and stopped speaking to me after that, demanded an apology and said she has never been spoken to in that manner in her entire life. This was a factual exchange on my part, btw, not emotional. I was simply saying let my brother defend his own actions. Period. I woudl say the same to any person.

So, with the exception of that interaction I have always been too lenient with her. However, when i try to define boundaries *she* turns into a child. I dont know how to approach it.

 

[ewald]

I think that everyone in one way or another tries to bury things under the rug. It's one of the ways that the ego tries to protect us from having to face painful feelings. We use oracles like the Yijing to get around this tendency. If we were enlightened, and would be capable of facing the truth, we wouldn't need it. Being able to see the truth and face the pain is a true accomplishment.

 

[elizabeth]

ewald - agreed. I would only add to that, that when one wants to be enlightened, uncover the truth, face it, correct the problems and heal -- and other people refuse to cooperate or comply (in my case my mother) it doesnt leave us in a very easy position!

 

[ewald]

Elizabeth - Compassion helps softening defenses, as it allows for pain to be faced.

Do you need the cooperation of other people to heal yourself and be enlightened? You don't need others in order to be aware of everything. You can face your own hurt without others apologizing for what they did to you. You can have compassion for yourself to do that. In order to develop compassion for yourself, you can develop compassion for anyone (which includes yourself).

 

[luz]

Hi Elizabeth,

I like what Ewald says.

I think that we all have a tendency, specially with our parents, to hope or expect that they will one day admit their mistakes, right all wrongs somehow and allow us to be healed by that. In my experience, that doesn't happen very often and it's really up to us to work on our issues and to heal ourselves.

In addition to that, I think it's up to you to swallow your pride (to put it that way) and to make the concessions when it comes to communicating with your mother. Maybe because you are the daughter, maybe because she's older and less likely to be flexible, or maybe just because that will set you free. Open up with her, don't expect apologies or concessions, expect her to be herself, give yourself the chance to forgive her for any mistakes she might have made and to love her unconditionally.

This sounds very condescending but I think it's the best approach towards hopeless conflict with people very near to you.

Good luck.

 

[elizabeth]

ewald - thanks for the reply. as rudimentary as it sounds, maybe i dont really understand what compassion for oneself is. I do agree that we dont need others to be enlightened. but how can one heal oneself in isolation? (That is a serious question, bc I need to do just that).

lightangel- i understand what you're saying -- it's up to me in this case to be the flexible party. when you say "open up to her" -- how much, or on what grounds? Am i to never speak to her about the injustices and pain (is that the crux of it). Ie not confront?

 

[ewald]

elizabeth - Perhaps it's hard to heal yourself in isolation, as having teachers and healers, and being among people with a similar goal certainly helps. You can however meditate and learn to allow the truth of yourself on your own. But what I meant was that there is no direct need to have others undo wrongs, though it may sometimes help.

I see compassion as the feeling that allows for facing the truth of suffering. So it's not necessarily alleviating suffering, or alleviating the suffering of someone else. You can have that feeling for someone else, as well as for yourself.

There is a natural tendency in most people to protect oneself against hurt by pushing it out of consciousness in some way. That is for instance done by repressing the feeling of hurt by tensing up, and this results in a decreased ability to feel anything at all. If you relax and allow yourself to feel your hurt, compassion for yourself will eventually arise.

I don't think that I'm there yet myself, but to get there is a process of learning to feel your feelings, whether they're pleasant or unpleasant.

 

[elizabeth]

ewald,

Thank you so much. That makes sense, and I'm glad you pointed out that compassion doesn't necessarily involve eliminating the suffering or having the other person undo the wrong; rather just recognizing its existence. Then by deduction I'd guess that step two is to start to accept your (hurt/wounded) self as it is (?) and say you've done the best you can under the circumstances and will do the best you can by not living/dwelling in the past (?)

 

[luz]

lightangel- i understand what you're saying -- it's up to me in this case to be the flexible party. when you say "open up to her" -- how much, or on what grounds? Am i to never speak to her about the injustices and pain (is that the crux of it). Ie not confront?

Well, I don't think that not confronting her about what hurts you is a good idea. I, for one, am incapable of keeping these things to myself even in situations when I wish I did..

I think that the parent/child relationship tends to create more expectations and more disappointments than any other type of relationship. We are maybe at our most vulnerable with them.

I am just saying, bring up the issues, let them out of your system but don't have any expectations. And try your best to go beyond your pain and disappointment and see her for who she is to you.

I don't know, maybe I am projecting myself here. I had issues with my mother even though the relationship was good overall and she could be very loving most of the time. But I always felt something there and she always complained that I didn't show her a lot of love. I thought about it long and hard, all the time thinking she should own up to her mistakes, etc. But, in the end (I didn't know that the end was coming, by the way, she died suddenly), I had come to the conclusion that she was not going to change. And that, not only there was nothing I could do about it, but also that it was up to me to forgive and forget and to love her for who she was. There was a lot to love there, there is always a lot to love in every human being. I think part of the reason I decided it was not up to her to change was that she was getting old and people are more set in their ways the older they get. That is why I mentioned before that I was maybe being condescending to your mother. Like you could be to a two year old child that tells you he hates you. You know he doesn't mean it, you can't be hurt by it. But you can't reason with him either.

Again, this is just my perception, and maybe it comes from what I have known to be true. I knew my mother loved me and I loved her. Everything else was rather cosmetic, we are all pretty imperfect and we do the best we can.

 

[ewald]

elizabeth - Yes, by following this path you'll start accepting your self as it as.

I wonder what "doing the best you can" means, though? Is it "being so that you are not to blame?"

In the Yijing the phrase "no blame" is there 93 times. We tend to check whether we are to blame way too often (it is called the superego). Accepting yourself as you are means that you do away with that. If you're an adult and you have compassion there's no need for that anyway.

 

[heylise]

Could it be that the Yi speaks to your own work in yourself? I agree in this with Ewald and Lightangel. The line meaning "be severe about it, but not too much, but certainly don't let it all just go by, take it seriously". Line 3 is part of the 'inner' trigram.

Parents instill the base for organizing your mind and soul, like a family is organized, but when you are old enough to 'see' things, you take over and organize your own inner family. You mend what is not right - in you, but not in her. If she wanted it, it would be different, but she doesn't, so let her live what she chooses to live. If you can make your inner family a good one, she will feel that as love emanating from you. That is worth much more than trying to do something about her.

LiSe

 

[elizabeth]

ewald- I thought for some time about what you wrote, and I think you're right. By deduction then, not blaming oneself, or not asking "who is to blame here, is it me? Okay so its not me, then it must be.. (her or him or them etc)" means you cannot place blame anywhere -- things are as they are and we have no control over them. (I think thats a very buddhist point of view, no?) Meaning, "I had X Y and Z to work with and this is what I came up with, it was the best solution I could create, and I know I tried my best." that kind of approach. However, personally, accepting the situation as it is, without trying to change or improve it, is terribly difficult for me.

lightangel - I would love to confront my mother but it would be for me more than for her. I picture it sort of as two people and one bag of garbage. Right now the garbage is on my back. if I confront her, I put it all on her back and I can walk away...but then she has to deal with it. She doesnt want to deal with it, and moreover, has no clue as to HOW to deal with it, so her reaction will be "how dare you throw that garbage at me!" and she will throw it either back in my face, or all over the street. (sorry but that's the best pictoral I could come up with) Another possibility is to open the bag of garbage slowly, and calmly explain to her what its contents are. Her reaction will be more or less the same --it is 'garbage' that she doesnt want to look at. It will strike a chord in her (which is how I know this is a real issue) that she cannot confront in herself. And the result is blaming me, degrading me, and anger.

However, even if I had the courage to confront her, there are so many issues involved it would be difficult to cover all of them (!!) and I also know it would not be productive. As heylies noted, if she wanted things better or differently they would be, but she doesnt. She doesnt see any problems between us emotionally. She probably thinks we have a normal relationship. (!) She doesnt understand why I am living abroad, says she wants me to move back. But when I visit she does her best to make me feel unwelcome. She treats me like a guest not as a daughter, and I get the impression she doesnt really want to see me. (that's on top of all the other past issues). Anyway, I think confrontation would be fruitless, I think there'd be no results and probably she would blame me and make me feel worse. That's typically how it goes, so I have stopped confronting her. I"ve started trying to correct little things, like small misassumptions she has about me -- like she will say "oh you and I both are like that" and I freeze when she says such things, bc I know I'm not "like that". But she has so much projection going on it is unbeleivable.She thinks she knows who I am, but she, after more than 30 years, still has no clue.

heylise -- I really like what you wrote. You're so right. If she wanted things to be different they would be, but she doesn't. Letting her "live her life" is difficult -- as there is an undying urge inside me to "correct" the situation and make it all right. So suppressing that urge and not confronting her is very difficult for me, but that's what I am doing. And trying to make my inner family a good one is the path I'm on, especially now that I see what all the issues are, but I often dont know where or how to start with that. I feel i need help w/the process. For example, how do i love myself and think I'm super fantastic when she treats me terribly? My self-esteem has been so battered, for years and years of interaction with her, that a simple change in my own mindset I dont think will be enough to solve the problem. That is, I see all the issues between her and me now, but it doesnt change how i feel about myself inside (beat up and not good enough). I have a handful of very close, supportive friends in various global locations -- closer relationships than she has with her few acquaintances. And I know I'm lucky that these people support me and care about me each in their own way. So it isnt as if i'm incapable of having a loving/caring relationship with a friend or outsider. But my inner family, as you call it, needs help nonetheless and I'm just not sure where to start with that.

 

[ewald]

Elizabeth - It's indeed a view very much related to Buddhism.

If you blame yourself, you punish yourself, and thus sort of attack yourself. If you think about it, it doesn't really make sense to attack yourself, does it. It's different to regret having done something. Regret is a natural feeling that doesn't necessarily imply feeling guilty or blaming yourself. Regret may cause you to improve a situation.

If you blame someone else, you punish that person. If you don't blame someone, you can still work on improving a situation. You might for example express that you don't like being treated a certain way (I think it's best to do that as it happens). If you do that in a respectful manner, not attacking that person, she has no need to protect herself against the attack, and can put her energy into listening to what you have to say. (Chances are that she might just as well take it as "being blamed" and start defending against that, though.)

Anyway, I find it hard myself to not blame myself or someone else. To change old patterns, you need to be aware of them first, while many are unconscious.

 

[autumn]

Elizabeth,

The energy block you are dealing with right now has no correspondence to anything in the present. You are dealing with how your perceptions as a child resulted in the choice to 'disown' certain aspects of your authentic inner self. The most difficult and necessary challenge of adulthood is to see our parents as they are, and to be able to accept them, but often being able to accept them doesn't come until we have contacted our split-off inner emotions and needs that our parents made us feel we couldn't express.

There are therapists who take these ideas to extremes, and seek to villify parents, when as often as not the damage done during childhood was entirely unintentional, or unavoidable. The idea is not to make your mom a villian, it is just to understand that in the process of narcissistic projection, you were not allowed access to certain inner emotions and ego needs. It made your mom uncomfortable for you to express certain emotions, or certain normal healthy desires, like your creativity or your ambition, for example. It made your mom uncomfortable because she had repressed those parts of herself. So, she has to have you mirror her needs, rather than as a parent, accept your needs. She needs you to be a certain way to express what she has disowned in her life. This is narcissistic projection. I feel angry; I can not express anger, thus my daughter will be angry for me. I will subtlely manipulate her world so that she grows up angry. You see? But for you, you're dealing with aspects of your ego like ambition and autonomy and independence. She can't express those aspects of her personality in a healthy way, so she rigidly attempts to get you to express her ego needs for her.

Getting free is just recognizing that, and saying, I'm who I am, mom. You are who you are. I'm not going to accept those manipulative attempts to get me to feel something for you or be something for you. You must acknowledge the split off feelings of rage at your mother you had as a child and feel it now, or experience it now, but, you do so recognizing this is the past, and you do it to make yourself whole, not to engage her in further dysfunctional communication dynamics.

 

[elizabeth]

Ewald-- This is starting to make more sense, thank you. To your point about addressing issues as they come, that actually seems more fruitful. At least in my case, the approach of what I'll refer to as "Planting the Seed", much as lawyers in court do, tends to work with her. That is, you say something knowing she will immediately object to it ("Objection Your Honor!!") but the fact is that it has already been voiced aloud, the "court" (her subconscious) has heard it, and there (in her subconscious) it will percolate for a while. She can still reject it, and probably will, but she can't reject or accept something that hasn't been voiced at all... So I will tend to do that with no hopes of immediate change but with the idea that down the line it might "click".


Autumn--Wow. You're an angel. I'm amazed I've found someone with experience in exactly what is happening to me right now!

All I can say is wow. Before I get to my role in this, it intrigues me what good it does the parent (in this case my mom) to have such narcissistic projection, and what happens when it stops, ie. when I stop being her outlet for "expression"? I"d assume that would make her boil up and over!! Or perhaps at that point her ego finds another conduit (one of my siblings?) to project on to? I don't know if its proven that suppression/repression _always_ finds some misdirected outlet, but maybe that's what this is.

Because you're exactly right, me expressing my ambitions, following my dreams freely (with no help or encouragement from anyone, least of all from her) and pursuing my creative goals is NOT something she likes to see, and she's criticized it multiple times. So (wow again!) that is just what is happening here. I also have much pent up anger at her, but it's hard to know which is redirected (her anger through me) and which is mine (my anger at the situation of not being accepted for who i am now, and for having lost so many years trying to live out her needs in my own life, where they just don't fit.)

I just landed on Robert Burney's website related to his book "The Dance of Wounded Souls" and it walks the reader through the process of emotional healing. It's helpful to know what the typical stages are. He says the stages are recognizing the abuse (in this case narcissistic projection), feeling the anger, releasing the anger, and then being emotionally honest/responsible and setting personal boundaries from there on out. The part I get stuck on is releasing the anger, but I meditated long and hard on that yesterday and feel better about it now.

You're right (I think it was you who wrote?) that it is hard to accept our parents for who we are once we see their flaws. It wasn't until now that I saw all of this for what it really is. It's difficult but I see her as a child now in so many ways, a child trying very hard who just doesn't have the tools she needs to cope. It makes me sad but if I try to offer to help, that child will get upset, so its best to leave her be.

I suppose there isn't anything for me to concretely say to her about any of this at this point, just to continue to go thru the process within myself and hope that if she does make comments in coming months, that I can nip it in the bud and say aloud something to the effect of what you wrote, namely "I am who I am" (and can't live your life/dreams).