Do I Have Romantic Charisma? 45.2.3.4>48

[marybluesky]

Context: as someone who've never had a serious romantic partner, I've sensed that I might have been missing something: I've fallen in love & got close to the guys I loved, but no romantic relationship shaped. They've always preferred other girls over me to be their girlfriends & tried to have me beside as sex partner or friend in the time of loneliness.
If I hadn't got close to them, I guessed that was a problem with starting relationships, but that's not the matter.

I thought maybe I lack the romantic charisma: I don't trigger others to be in a romantic relationship with me, so I asked: Do I Have Romantic Charisma? and got 45.2.3.4>48.

Well, hexagram 48 indicates that the source is there;
45.2: they are drawn, there is promise, but
45.3: then they think that is not the direction to pursue, there's small shame; anyway
45.4: there's great good fortune.

hidden lines are 47.3: they don't see the "wife" in me, and 28.4: -the ridgepole holds up but there's other shame- I don't know how to interpret this.

I then asked if I have sexual charisma & got 9.1.6>48.

Again 48; though there's small resistance (9). I guess the changing lines say I don't stay long in a relationship whit mere sexual attraction and nothing more.

Personally I can see myself as a sexually charismatic person but not a romantic one.
I'd like to read your interpretations.

 

[redoleander]

This is a shot in the dark and I'm sure more experienced people will answer; my impression of the original question is:

45 > 48 sounds like "Yes but look deeper"

45.2: yes, you attract others
45.3: not the right ones (yet), or perhaps you don't choose/focus on/have awareness of the right ones, like you overlook them for others who can't actually meet what you want
45.4: you might need to be the more dominant person, the one to "chase", and also grab the reigns of your attraction patterns. like maybe looking into nervous system regulation and attachment theory? there will always be a pattern of what you're unconsciously drawn to; maybe you need to change that pattern since it's not panning out for you. (it could even be the reverse, that you have been doing the chasing and you might need to cultivate your ability to receive, be more magnetic and trust the right ones will come without you needing to do so much work (a more yin or Empress-like approach))

It sounds like you're for sure not looking for something superficial... but the lines feel a bit of a superficial nature? What you need is in a deeper place, in the well. Maybe the people you've been attracted to aren't that deep? Or is it possible you're pursuing a more surface-level line of attraction and then being disappointed when it can't be more? 45.3 could also be that you're wanting people to be attracted to the wrong parts of you. Compatibility may be about qualities different than what you've been looking for.

 

[rosada]

I just asked the IC, "What is Romantic Charisma or Sexual Charisma or whatever you want to call it, what makes a woman attractive to a man?" Even though that was a pretty confused question I got a simple straight forward answer,

27. Nourishment.

Or as the old saying goes, "The way to a man's heart is through his stomach!"

 

[marybluesky]

45.4: you might need to be the more dominant person, the one to "chase"...it could even be the reverse, that you have been doing the chasing and you might need to cultivate your ability to receive, be more magnetic and trust the right ones will come without you needing to do so much work (a more yin or Empress-like approach))

I have no problem doing the chase redoleander, I've done it in the past. It's more in tune with my nature.

On the other hand, I admit that I'm not good at receiving. Not at all. I can't trust the process of laying back & letting someone else do the chase. And... I don't enjoy being chased.

I guess an in-between approach is best for me.

It sounds like you're for sure not looking for something superficial... but the lines feel a bit of a superficial nature? What you need is in a deeper place, in the well. Maybe the people you've been attracted to aren't that deep? Or is it possible you're pursuing a more surface-level line of attraction and then being disappointed when it can't be more? 45.3 could also be that you're wanting people to be attracted to the wrong parts of you. Compatibility may be about qualities different than what you've been looking for.

I don't pretend not being superficial. Maybe that's indeed the case?

By the way the meaning of "superficial" has always puzzled me- does it mean giving importance to physical attraction? I can't imagine how one can fall in love without it.

 

[marybluesky]

I just asked the IC, "What is Romantic Charisma or Sexual Charisma or whatever you want to call it, what makes a woman attractive to a man?" Even though that was a pretty confused question I got a simple straight forward answer,

27. Nourishment.

Or as the old saying goes, "The way to a man's heart is through his stomach!"

Oh Rosada!

I consider romantic charisma to be different from sexual charisma, though connected to it; and both different from what makes a woman wife material

 

[rosada]

Yeah, that's what I was trying to ask the I Ching, "What makes a man see a woman as wife material?" 27!

On another note:
"Deep down I'm pretty superficial." - Ava Gardner.

 

[redoleander]

By the way the meaning of "superficial" has always puzzled me- does it mean giving importance to physical attraction? I can't imagine how one can fall in love without it.

Personally I don't think sincere physical attraction is superficial! And it's odd that women are often told it might somehow be less important for us. It's definitely not! I do think though that sometimes we are drawn to people because of an idea of who they are or who we want them to be, or maybe just have a pattern of who we like and we don't question it or challenge it, even if it doesn't seem to ever give us what we actually want or need. So superficial may not be quite the right word, I'm not sure, but something that's more unconscious and automatic.

 

[redoleander]

Also, it could be that they are limited in depth, the people you choose. The have a limit of how deep they can go and then you're left banging your head against a wall trying to get past that. But it's them, not you. Maybe it's about saving your magnetism for those who seeking the same thing you are even if there are fewer of them.

I'm all for chasing! I don't think it's inherently better to chase or be chased. However, if you're already chasing someone too much even to just date, that's a pretty strong sign from the start they aren't capable of giving you much more than that. That would be a good thing to pay attention to, when someone is truly available. I think 45.4 implies that someone being truly available would be something to cherish. Big difference between chasing someone who wants to be caught and someone how doesn't.

 

[marybluesky]

redoleander I don't know why I thought you were a man

I get your idea.

 

[diamant]

What interesting questions.

Do I Have Romantic Charisma? 45.2.3.4 > 48
hidden lines are 47.3: they don't see the "wife" in me, and 28.4: -the ridgepole holds up but there's other shame- I don't know how to interpret this.
48 in relationships is the hexagram of the 'bench', the one on the side, the one who will always be there if and when you need them. A reliable steady source that one can use again and again, to take from it again and again. Here, the three lines of 45 lead to a 48 situation.
45.2 someone accepts an invitation even if the offering is small (red flag: the offering is small)
45.3 a collection of sighs, no benefit, a bit humiliating (red flag: there is suffering already)
45.4 this line sticks out like a sore thumb - great luck and nothing wrong..?
In 47.3 someone loses everything because of the bad decisions they made.
In 28.4 there's a large 'ridgepole' and also 'a snake on its tail' which is ungenerous.
48 ending up on the bench.

I then asked if I have sexual charisma & got 9.1.6 > 48
9 is the games that 'the weak' play with 'the strong'. Here 9 concludes too quickly. It goes from A to Z too quickly, you conclude the flirting game too quickly, so you end up on the bench.

What is Romantic Charisma or Sexual Charisma or whatever you want to call it, what makes a woman attractive to a man? 27
What makes a man see a woman as wife material? 27
When you want to 'eat' the other person, when you're hungry for the other person.

By the way the meaning of "superficial" has always puzzled me- does it mean giving importance to physical attraction? I can't imagine how one can fall in love without it.
Indeed, physical attraction is most important, without it nothing goes anywhere.
It's not enough by itself though, the character of the person also needs to be observed.

 

[marybluesky]

@redoleander , as though I may be the superficial one, your idea about the other being limited in depth interests me.

Example: a guy I used to love & felt was holding back the best part of himself from me. I tried to destroy the surface and reach the depth while he seemed to resist, virtually banging my head against the wall.
After I got to know him better, I concluded that there was nothing special beneath the surface: I noticed that he repeated the same stories, jokes and flirtations with every one to get attention as if he had memorized them, was obsessed with how many likes & comments he received on Instagram and became resentful if someone complimented him less than expected, told dirty jokes & talked dirty over & over but was freaked by normal, realistic discussions about sex, tried hard to win the board games, and catcalled girls in a shameful way in the streets. He was in mid 30s by the way.

@diamant , finally I have romantic charisma or not?

 

[diamant]

@marybluesky that guy sounds like a nightmare. Love your description of him!

What is charisma? The way someone looks at the other, the way someone moves, the words they say, the way they smile, and so on. Like you say about that guy, he had a well-rehearsed strategy. I have met women who told me explicitly things like:

• they (actually I've only met one who said this) have read books to know exactly what gestures capture a man's attention, and she practiced them so as to perfect them and become alluring (crazy details, like keeping your wrists upwards when talking, which sends a message of submissive, despite that woman having no intention to be submissive, she was in essence fooling men)
• they pose for hours in front of a mirror, so when someone takes a photo they know exactly which angle is most flattering (I've heard this from quite a few women and quite a few men too)

So as things stand, sorry, no, you haven't yet honed the 'charisma' strategy. Charisma would never accept to become a 48.

 

[redoleander]

@redoleander , as though I may be the superficial one, your idea about the other being limited in depth interests me.

Example: a guy I used to love & felt was holding back the best part of himself from me. I tried to destroy the surface and reach the depth while he seemed to resist, virtually banging my head against the wall.
After I got to know him better, I concluded that there was nothing special beneath the surface: I noticed that he repeated the same stories, jokes and flirtations with every one to get attention as if he had memorized them, was obsessed with how many likes & comments he received on Instagram and became resentful if someone complimented him less than expected, told dirty jokes & talked dirty over & over but was freaked by normal, realistic discussions about sex, tried hard to win the board games, and catcalled girls in a shameful way in the streets. He was in mid 30s by the way.

@diamant , finally I have romantic charisma or not?

Ugggghhh. A truly "perfect" example...

 

[redoleander]

So as things stand, sorry, no, you haven't yet honed the 'charisma' strategy. Charisma would never accept to become a 48.

Would you mind explaining "Charisma would never accept to become a 48", it sounds interesting but I don't think I understand it. Meaning the boring-ness or staidness of 48? That it wants to be more exciting than that?

On a sidenote, one thing about charisma is that the best approaches can vary from person to person a lot, at least through a lens like astrology and others I'm sure as well, where thing like your rising sign, the ruler of the rising, your venus, your mars.... there are clues to the "how" of attractiveness and presentation, and also what would feel most natural. Which I mention to say, could that be the Well too? Like what is deeply natural and inside you being more powerfully harnessed and projected outward as a form of charisma (like a rockstar or someone in a broadway musical, that massive stage presence that comes from something inside) versus the learned outer mechanisms that could be weaker or ill-fitting. It reminds me of the advice on where to take someone on a first date; rather than take them somewhere that you think will impress them but isn't especially comfortable to you, take them somewhere you love so much that your ease, comfort, confidence, and happiness flow out that much more naturally. Could some of it be like that?

 

[diamant]

@marybluesky I've been thinking about this.

I'm weary of people who, upon first meeting, appear too charismatic. There's great egocentricity there, certainly a big whiff of deception, and a feel that they're trying way too hard to collect trophies by being alluring to everyone.

Did you mean that type of 'charisma'? Or did you mean if you're fanciable? It sounds like those low quality men have dented your self-esteem, and have made you feel 'less than'.

@redoleander Just saw your post as I was typing the above. I agree that different people / natal charts have different ways to attract and be attracted. I think we need to make a distinction between 'charismatic' and fanciable. Being fanciable is more about being yourself, valuing yourself, and exactly like you say making sure you feel comfortable with the other person, not trying to impress them. An instantaneous fleeting sexual desire is nothing to write home about - each person needs to get to know the other.

When I said 'charisma would never accept to be a 48', I meant to say that charismatic egocentric people just wouldn't accept being on the bench. The well is something which people use, something from which people constantly take (but not give to). Yes, it's valuable, yes it's a source of 'water', but still it's a commodity. Thinking about it again now, I was wrong to say that charisma doesn't accept being a 48. I can immediately think of quite a few egocentric people I know, who, when faced with someone more egocentric than themselves who treated them with contempt, they actually went straight into a slave type of position. So I take that statement fully back, it was inaccurate and flawed.

 

[marybluesky]

By romantic charisma I mean the charm, the element that makes others want to have a romantic relationship with you; to impress them in that way.

By sexual charisma I mean being sexually attractive to people, in the way that they want to have sex with you because that's "you", not a random woman to score.

I find the latter more flattering, however have more problems in the former.

And I see both different from being simply pretty/fanciable/attractive. You may be attractive and still, others prefer less attractive people over you for dating. In sexual relationships that's different, I mean it's less probable that people chose to have sex with a less sexually attractive person for the sake of it. However there were many pretty girls in our collage that no one pursued romantically nor sexually. That's why I see romantic/sexual charisma different from being attractive/lovely in its classic sense.

 

[diamant]

It seems to be such a common problem to have difficulties to form a real relationship. Those pretty girls that nobody pursued, my guess is it was because they made it clear they had strong boundaries and didn't want to engage in the current norm. Nowadays sex predators and manipulators seem to be abundant in incredible numbers. It seems to be the norm that they can have endless sexual partners without commitment, and use others without repercussions. That is a dangerous situation, as it's spreading both sexual diseases and broken hearts. The predators won't stop it by themselves, so it's down to the prey to put a stop to this trend.

It's completely down to random luck if you'll ever meet someone who is not like that.
And it's completely down to you to learn to recognise players and fend them off.
Predators don't care about who you are. They don't care if you have charisma or not. They're just looking for prey.

 

[marybluesky]

It's completely down to random luck if you'll ever meet someone who is not like that.
And it's completely down to you to learn to recognise players and fend them off.
Predators don't care about who you are. They don't care if you have charisma or not. They're just looking for prey.

Predators may not care about who you are, but, on the other hand, the charisma definitely increases your power & options.

The thing is, you should try to be in the power position.

About players, I'm sure they have enjoyed the life much more than those poor deprived girls who remain repressed sexually & emotionally. They don't live in my opinion, they just seem alive. I say because I know them in person & I used to be one.

I don't know what a real relationship is, but I want romance & sex. And, I admit, I prefer to have a joyful experience with a player rather than marrying a good guy I don't want to sleep with (that's what happened to some of those good girls. Imagine, during the first months of marriage that's supposed to be the honeymoon phase, they tried to spend time in their parental house as much as possible because they didn't want to spend time with the decent guy who had offered them the huge trophy that was marriage).

 

[diamant]

It's your life, if you like joyful experiences with players, then you're totally within your rights to have them. As long as you don't expect the players to offer you anything more.
Those girls who married someone they don't fancy (nightmare!), they probably fancy his wallet.

 

[marybluesky]

Those girls who married someone they don't fancy (nightmare!), they probably fancy his wallet.

No idea. The guys were from similar social classes. I guess these girls had no better option. They wanted to be married at a certain age, while people like them who aren't practically considered attractive in the society (even if they are in its classic sense) have a difficult time finding anyone eager to have a relationship with them.

I should add that beside prettiness, they had good education & family.

 

[diamant]

Yes I can see what you mean, societal status goes up when someone is married.

 

[marybluesky]

Diamanda left this forum in early 2022, however rereading her comments, I find this to be very to the point:

48 in relationships is the hexagram of the 'bench', the one on the side, the one who will always be there if and when you need them. A reliable steady source that one can use again and again, to take from it again and again. Here, the three lines of 45 lead to a 48 situation.
45.2 someone accepts an invitation even if the offering is small (red flag: the offering is small)
45.3 a collection of sighs, no benefit, a bit humiliating (red flag: there is suffering already)
45.4 this line sticks out like a sore thumb - great luck and nothing wrong..?
In 47.3 someone loses everything because of the bad decisions they made.
In 28.4 there's a large 'ridgepole' and also 'a snake on its tail' which is ungenerous.
48 ending up on the bench.

My greatest practical mistake (beside the psychological ones) has been this; being on the bench, constantly there, overly available without asking for much. And not only with the ones I had romantic feelings for.

While I'm not the conventional warm, giving person, I used to invest too much on people who counted for me, be it friends, some relatives or love interests. It took me a long time to get out of emotional haze and start to set boundaries, to demand as much as I give. It has been more or less doable in non-romantic relationships. No idea for the romantic ones as I didn't enter one afterwards.

Now I can see how this "on the bench" situation put me in wrong romantic situations with the illusion of "unconditional love" for someone who came and go as he wanted. I was really blind to it. Strange. Very strange.

 

[Phaboo]

Interesting, I often got 48 as a secondary hexagram regarding potential relationships. I used to think it meant "the one is there but not where you're looking for" and now I'm more and more convinced it's about diving deep within ourselves, developing self love, getting to know yourself at a deeper level. And it makes sense because if you love and know yourself more you will have more confidence, and confidence makes you more charismatic. I'm sure you have all the qualities (48), you just need to be aware of them.