Do other people feed on our souls?

[precision grace]

I asked a question about why I'm still hung up on the idea of someone and got 27.6

I don't want to be hung up. I am very happy when I am too busy to even entertain thoughts about the idea of this person. I say idea because the actual person and the ideas in my head are completely different things.

So, what does 27.6 counsel?

I had felt in the presence of this person like I had no will of my own and like my whole purpose was to serve their purpose. This had freaked me out massively as you can imagine. This person is someone popular who I've gathered many people feel this same way about. You sort of feel like a rabbit in the headlights. Caught, brainless.

Can other people manipulate other people's will so that it feeds their need for attention do you think?

 

[arabella]

I asked a question about why I'm still hung up on the idea of someone and got 27.6

I don't want to be hung up. I am very happy when I am too busy to even entertain thoughts about the idea of this person. I say idea because the actual person and the ideas in my head are completely different things.

So, what does 27.6 counsel?

I had felt in the presence of this person like I had no will of my own and like my whole purpose was to serve their purpose. This had freaked me out massively as you can imagine. This person is someone popular who I've gathered many people feel this same way about. You sort of feel like a rabbit in the headlights. Caught, brainless.

Can other people manipulate other people's will so that it feeds their need for attention do you think?

Dear PG, I'd hazard a guess that what you are experiencing isn't caused by the other person at all, but by something your own psyche is starving to possess. If you read LiSe on this line she explains, for example, that if your soul is starving nothing is really satisfying, though you may crave a thousand things you can't have while, if your soul is content, very little is fulfilling. Is there something inside that simply wants what you can't have? That happens to many of us. If you look into the realm of psychology you will find this is an outgrowth of some emotional fulfillment you deserved and didn't have as a child. From personal experience I can point to a time in my life that I wanted to be close to other people who were distant, detached, or somehow out of reach. On investigation I found that this comes from an emptiness created by the absence of both my parents when I was very young -- one physically not present and the other emotionally unavailable. That cleared up a lot and now, looking at people who magnetise my interest I know enough to decide whether that interest is real and balanced or motivated by that old sense of having been abandoned when I was a toddler.

By the way, I think you have hit the nail on the head when you say you are sometimes too busy to think about this person. These psychological traps are usually waiting for us when we aren't focused on our own lives enough. Get out there and meet more people, do the things you love most and the craving for relationships that don't serve a real purpose will diminish and disappear. You are obviously able to pick out what isn't worthwhile for you -- you've even thought someone is stealing your soul. And something is diminishing your freedom, but it all happened a long while ago I'd imagine, when you were a tiny child and you can't readily relate what you are feeling now with the actual cause.

 

[precision grace]

Dear PG, I'd hazard a guess that what you are experiencing isn't caused by the other person at all, but by something your own psyche is starving to possess. If you read LiSe on this line she explains, for example, that if your soul is starving nothing is really satisfying, though you may crave a thousand things you can't have while, if your soul is content, very little is fulfilling. Is there something inside that simply wants what you can't have? That happens to many of us. If you look into the realm of psychology you will find this is an outgrowth of some emotional fulfillment you deserved and didn't have as a child. From personal experience I can point to a time in my life that I wanted to be close to other people who were distant, detached, or somehow out of reach. On investigation I found that this comes from an emptiness created by the absence of both my parents when I was very young -- one physically not present and the other emotionally unavailable. That cleared up a lot and now, looking at people who magnetise my interest I know enough to decide whether that interest is real and balanced or motivated by that old sense of having been abandoned when I was a toddler.

By the way, I think you have hit the nail on the head when you say you are sometimes too busy to think about this person. These psychological traps are usually waiting for us when we aren't focused on our own lives enough. Get out there and meet more people, do the things you love most and the craving for relationships that don't serve a real purpose will diminish and disappear. You are obviously able to pick out what isn't worthwhile for you -- you've even thought someone is stealing your soul. And something is diminishing your freedom, but it all happened a long while ago I'd imagine, when you were a tiny child and you can't readily relate what you are feeling now with the actual cause.

I think you missed the bit where I spoke about other people who seem to be influenced in the same way by this person.

Recently, I was speaking with the person who introduced us and after hearing yet another ridiculously sycophantic story, I just had to ask "Is he like some sort of guru in your group or what?!" expecting to be told to eff off for being rude. But no. She said, "Yes", and nodded enthusiastically. Just like that.

I've met many people since meeting this person and I don't crave a relationship with this person at all, I think we would be a terrible combination. I just want him out of my head. It's like having a mosquito in your brain.

 

[arabella]

I think you missed the bit where I spoke about other people who seem to be influenced in the same way by this person.

Recently, I was speaking with the person who introduced us and after hearing yet another ridiculously sycophantic story, I just had to ask "Is he like some sort of guru in your group or what?!" expecting to be told to eff off for being rude. But no. She said, "Yes", and nodded enthusiastically. Just like that.

I've met many people since meeting this person and I don't crave a relationship with this person at all, I think we would be a terrible combination. I just want him out of my head. It's like having a mosquito in your brain.

I think, just as some of us a "programmed" to cluster like flies around a person who seems to promise something in their aura, there are those who produce such an aura, gather a large following, and get nothing of substance for it either. I can nearlyl guarantee you, this is a product of upbringing, who takes which role in this performance. I worked for someone for years who was the "charismatic" one. I later found out that he developed this diverting personality as a result of trying, unsuccessfully, to keep a molesting adult away from him as a young boy. Likewise, I don't think that people set out with a "guru" ideal in their natural state. All of these behaviours are something that we learn because, at some point early on, it molds us. There may be those who disagree on Clarity and have other ideas. But this is the way I've seen the combinations of people in various dependent relationships work. And the telling point that connects this to your story is that this seems to be what Hexagram 27.6 is saying to you as well.

 

[gato]

Can other people manipulate other people's will so that it feeds their need for attention do you think?

of course ... what is the sole purpose of make-up (eg.) if not drawing attention and manipulate man ?

 

[chingching]

of course ... what is the sole purpose of make-up (eg.) if not drawing attention and manipulate man ?

yikes, make-up attracts the visual sense, it works on chicks and dudes alike. Both ways too, wearing and seeing.

 

[gato]

i was just kidding emphasizing that everything in this world is about attention and manipulation

 

[chingching]

lol, fair enough. Yes , how to get attention then get what you want, some days it does feel like there is not much room for sincerity

 

[precision grace]

And the telling point that connects this to your story is that this seems to be what Hexagram 27.6 is saying to you as well.

Thing is, I don't usually want what I can't have. It always seemed to me a colossal waste of time to do that. On the other hand, I have been reminded of couple of other instances where I just couldn't get some people out of my head for the longest time and to this day I don't actually understand what went on there. One of them was a close friend who I did want to be with but it was all complicated way way complicated and we never got together in that way. The other was a guy I had a massive crush on and who finally asked me out but I turned him down and spent the next 5-6 years still obsessing about. Um. This does make me sound crazy akshully. lol Perhaps you are right, perhaps it is some childhood abandonment issue I've got to cleanse out of my system. Sure beats people using my life force for their elevenses

 

[arabella]

Thing is, I don't usually want what I can't have. It always seemed to me a colossal waste of time to do that. On the other hand, I have been reminded of couple of other instances where I just couldn't get some people out of my head for the longest time and to this day I don't actually understand what went on there. One of them was a close friend who I did want to be with but it was all complicated way way complicated and we never got together in that way. The other was a guy I had a massive crush on and who finally asked me out but I turned him down and spent the next 5-6 years still obsessing about. Um. This does make me sound crazy akshully. lol Perhaps you are right, perhaps it is some childhood abandonment issue I've got to cleanse out of my system. Sure beats people using my life force for their elevenses

I believe that our "adult" reactions to other people are based, first and foremost, in our upbringing, and especially the early years. And what we "want" and why we "want" it is a big part of this. And who impresses us, and who doesn't. Things we find annoying and even things we invite into our lives that we actually hate [counterphobias] and the various reflections of all the ways we've been told who and how we "are." Like Mom saying to all of the neighbours: "Oh Arabella is such a QUIET girl." And saying it so often you just think that you are until you get somewhere else and decide to start a fan club because that's what you REALLY wanted, not this subtley enforced librarian effect. All of these things inform us of who we are -- who we are anyway according to the pressures we've survived and the way we've been viewed by others. But what do WE really think? How do WE want it to be? You may have to dig further to find that than is obvious. It's not generally on the surface. Our reactions to other people are programmed a lot by our past. How many people choose a spouse that looks just like a parent? And, how many choose a spouse because he/she ISN'T anything like a family member they disliked or who mistreated them? There are all kinds of skews to the psychological process and you have to be rather persistent and without skepticism to find some of them. Because I've found myself repeating patterns and getting results I didn't want I've pursued this to some extent and uncovered the source of the patterns so that I could understand it and change it. Understanding is power -- that I do know. If you can find a reason that YOU respond to this character, this wanta be guru, you will be free of him. I've done similar things myself.

Hex 27.6 -- an association that makes you feel unwilingly attached to somebody you don't want around you. A sort of human "attractor beam" that is T-ing you off with some weird magnetism you feel is unwholesome. I'd start by checking back before age five and see if that rings any bells. And Mr. Guru, if he were open to it, could probably discover why he feels the need to exert his charismatic effect on the crowd and lure people to him. He's probably no happier about it than you are. The Universe calls for balance, always. Your barometer says this is somehow out of kilter. I'm sure you are right. Arabella

 

[precision grace]

Hex 27.6 -- an association that makes you feel unwilingly attached to somebody you don't want around you. A sort of human "attractor beam" that is T-ing you off with some weird magnetism you feel is unwholesome. I'd start by checking back before age five and see if that rings any bells. Arabella

Thank you Arabella for your time and thoughtful comments. You are giving me much to think about.

The first thing that came to my mind about before the age of five that was massively traumatic, was my then best friend, Sandra, being transferred to an older class without telling me and thus effectively ending our friendship. Even though I then made my parents transfer me to the older class too, my friendship with Sandra never recovered. We had talked about how we wanted to be transferred but somehow her dad had arranged this and she never told me about it. One day, she simply wasn't in my class anymore (this was in nursery). I was hurt beyond words and when I asked her about it she was stand offish and like she didn't owe me an explanation. And before that we were really close and had a very intense bond. I still to this day don't understand how and why she suddenly didn't want to be my friend. She was like my little mentor, I guess she felt she had to look after me, she was the one who taught me how to tie my shoelaces because my mother and father were useless at it lol.
But none of that resembles this situation in any way. Except for the part where there seems to be some intense vibe going on but absolutely no attempt to address it in any way. So maybe that's it?

 

[arabella]

Thank you Arabella for your time and thoughtful comments. You are giving me much to think about.

The first thing that came to my mind about before the age of five that was massively traumatic, was my then best friend, Sandra, being transferred to an older class without telling me and thus effectively ending our friendship. Even though I then made my parents transfer me to the older class too, my friendship with Sandra never recovered. We had talked about how we wanted to be transferred but somehow her dad had arranged this and she never told me about it. One day, she simply wasn't in my class anymore (this was in nursery). I was hurt beyond words and when I asked her about it she was stand offish and like she didn't owe me an explanation. And before that we were really close and had a very intense bond. I still to this day don't understand how and why she suddenly didn't want to be my friend. She was like my little mentor, I guess she felt she had to look after me, she was the one who taught me how to tie my shoelaces because my mother and father were useless at it lol.
But none of that resembles this situation in any way. Except for the part where there seems to be some intense vibe going on but absolutely no attempt to address it in any way. So maybe that's it?

PG ~ I don't pretend to have psycholanalytical training or anything, but I've been through this drill myself a couple times, finding out what triggers a reaction in me as an adult that came from somewhere way back when. I can see why, if Sandra was a child "mentor" and meant everything to you and totally disappointed you in a way that makes you feel the hurt even today -- that relationship may be at the bottom of this. The connecctions we make at that age are huge and what worked and didn't worked makes an enormous impression that lasts a lifetime. It makes perfect sense to me that you would have a hard time trusting any acquaintance who played up their association and seemed to want some kind of fan club. In essence you were Sandra's fan club and then she was suddenly out of your life. Poor old Sandra is probably paying a price for her parents' manipulation of the situation too since she must have been coached to be "standoff-ish." Kids wouldn't normally act that way on their own. Obviously you picked up all the vibes of what was wrong and still remember that you didn't deserve to be mistreated. GOOD for you! Maybe your feelings of being somehow "controlled" is just as much a fear of falling back into something that could eventually really hurt. I'm betting though you just saw this guy coming -- and you could turn this off in a heartbeat now that you know it's probably some old "buggaboo" from childhood that has nothing to do with the real, adult you.

 

[sooo]

No-one can take from my soul what I haven't allowed them to take or freely given to them, wisely or unwisely, knowingly or unwittingly, even with the best of intentions. Then it can be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to retrieve again.

The best reference for this Q&A that I know of is Bradford's 27.6-24. It speaks directly to the question. It would be humorous, if the matter wasn't so potentially serious.

 

[precision grace]

Uhuh. Bradford scares me. It's not too late for me to return to my home, is it?!

 

[sooo]

I honestly don't know. There are bits of my soul which have been splintered off that I don't think I'll ever get back during this lifetime.

 

[precision grace]

I know what you mean sooo. This is why putting yourself back together after a massive fall apart is actually an exercise in creating a new you rather than getting the old you back together. Possibly why so much of me seems unfamiliar to myself these days lol

 

[hopex]

who is bradford and who is LiSe - and
where do i find their work? thanks

 

[precision grace]

I'm betting though you just saw this guy coming -- and you could turn this off in a heartbeat now that you know it's probably some old "buggaboo" from childhood that has nothing to do with the real, adult you.

Never saw it coming to be honest. And I do wish I could just turn this off, but the truth of it is that just dialing it down takes all my energy and mental effort. And then, just as I congratulate myself on finally getting my act together, it sneaks back in and rocks my equilibrium all over again. I'm starting to finally understand why most people don't like to be alone but need to fill their hours with other people in activities. I've never been uncomfortable with my own thoughts and feelings before, however unpleasant, but with this, it's just there, as soon as I pause for breath and only if I'm completely engaged in something else does it disappear for the time. It's been a year. I'm exhausted.

 

[precision grace]

who is bradford and who is LiSe - and
where do i find their work? thanks

Bradford commentary can be found here: http://www.hermetica.info/

Lise commentary can be found here: http://www.yijing.nl/i_ching/index.html

 

[arabella]

Never saw it coming to be honest. And I do wish I could just turn this off, but the truth of it is that just dialing it down takes all my energy and mental effort. And then, just as I congratulate myself on finally getting my act together, it sneaks back in and rocks my equilibrium all over again. I'm starting to finally understand why most people don't like to be alone but need to fill their hours with other people in activities. I've never been uncomfortable with my own thoughts and feelings before, however unpleasant, but with this, it's just there, as soon as I pause for breath and only if I'm completely engaged in something else does it disappear for the time. It's been a year. I'm exhausted.

With all that you say about your own equilibrium, happiness in your own company, or lack thereof, I think it's interesting that your actual suspicion was that this guy was trying to "steal" from you, trying somehow to affect your soul. It seems like the real basis for this is dissatisfaction on some level with yourself. Because if that is solid as a rock, nobody and nothing can shake it. The fact that others also succumb to this fellas charisma isn't that unique if you think about people like Jim Jones. A good proportion of the world are walking around like zombies wanting somebody to tell them what to think and what to do with themselves. The fact that you question this and resent it is wonderful. Lots of people keep going until they drink the Kool-aid.

Maybe you could compose a new question though and ask the Yi more about what you need to be entirely satisfied with YOU and have an internal fortress of wellbeing that makes snake oil salesmen like this one obsolete?

 

[precision grace]

Maybe you could compose a new question though and ask the Yi more about what you need to be entirely satisfied with YOU and have an internal fortress of wellbeing that makes snake oil salesmen like this one obsolete?

I totally hear what you're saying and I've been saying it to myself all this time too..

I did just ask, what do I need to be totally satisfied within myself and got

1.5.6 turning to 34

so I would understand this as a need to gain clarity but without getting self important or arrogant in the process. Um. Doesn't this apply to everyone?

Edit: I don't know that he is a snake oil salesman, not on purpose anyway. I think he probably struggles with his own lot and I can't really be cross with him for being charismatic or for the fact that I find myself strangely drawn to him. He is strangely fragile actually (the real person, not the one in my head). This is half the reason why I'm so ..gnh. None of it really makes any actual 'sense'. It's like logic took a holiday and never really came back to work...

 

[dilson]

Fill your " mental house" with positive thinking

Hi,
I would like to express some encouraging words to you.
I asked the Yijing what is its advice. What do you have to do free yourself from this influence? It answered with 35,3 and I read at Lise´s site: Prosperity does not arrive by itself, it visits the people with the right attitude. The one who always carries along arrows is probably the only one who comes home from a walk with a rabbit for dinner. The lord of Kang grasped the opportunity of a gift to breed a meadow full of horses. The first one who sees a gap in the market builds up the multinational.
Grasp the small chances, do not wait for the big one to arrive, stay alert with eyes and ears and hands ready, and a quiver filled with arrows.
And about line three:
6 at 3: All consent. Regrets disappear.
The positivism in one's own heart is the condition for prosperity. Things, animals, people, heaven, they all love the one who has good fortune living in his heart, and they all will cooperate. One's own good luck creates good luck.

Fill your mental house with thoughts that highlight your capacity to overcome any difficulty that may come up. The reading also suggests to prepare yourself having 'arrows" that are the means or tools needed for the task. Read good books , for example.
If you feel that there is the need do read about how to protect yourself from negative astral influences and above all remember that God exists, trust Him!
Pray for the persons whose faces come to your mind. Ask God to give them what they need.
Some people imagine themselves surrounded by a violet light that acts like a mean to purify their energy. This light being lifted in their air setting you free from lighter astral influences .
I hope that helps !
Dilson

 

[precision grace]

It's just very difficult when you are very sensitive and don't interact (emotionally) with many people on a regular basis. Or something, I am not sure -- there is something here that I keep failing to understand and it's something to do with English people, because I don't have this problem with non English peeps.

 

[bamboo]

A person who has narcissistic tendencies, or who is a narcissist ( using the term as defined in the DSM ) can be quite charming , and they can have a tendency to create a powerful vortex around them which literally sucks the energy of those around them. (This is not done consciously.) Such a personality needs the attention/energy of others like a drug addict needs a fix and they unconsciously use other people as their mirror, a way to reflect themselves. It can be easy to get swept up into this vortex of theirs. I think a clue to recognizing this is that you begin to feel sort of "invisible" emotionally .. it's uncomfortable but you can't quite put the finger on why you suddenly feel invisible, or feel as if you have no choice but to be subject to this person's aura. So yes, in a sense, a narcissist is feeding on your soul, but it is an empty feeling; there is no exchange of energy. A narcissist doesnt look at you to see what you look like, they look at you to see what they look like.

By the way, 27.6 is an excellent response to this. you become their source of nourishment. and 27.6 also advises the remedy. Either you inwardly pull back your nourishment from them conciously as you recognize what is happening ( easier said than done ) or you become the sacrificial lamb.

 

[arabella]

Oh yipee. I was hoping that Bamboo would chime in here. Yes, narcissist, this is the name of it. Exactly what I was trying, so ineptly to explain PG. My Mother is one and so I ran right out and married one. You get used to it and you think it's something you recognise so, as miserable as it made you, you go find yourself another one. Brilliant.

I think though the line was 27.6 -- for purported nourishment that doesn't nourish anybody - not even the narcissist.

 

[precision grace]

That totally makes sense. My mother is one too and I'd married one also and then divorced him after a long struggle and I cannot believe I'd be stupid enough to walk right into another one!

 

[precision grace]

So purely by coincidence, I came across a paper at work today that talks about narcissism and specifically manifestations of narcissism in physical appearance. doi: 10.1016/j.jrp.2008.06.007 if you are interested (and have access). Basically the paper claims that one of the main characteristics of narcissism is the excessive concern with personal appearance and excessive time/money spent on personal grooming, clothes, make up etc and that somehow this combines to give clues as to the narcissistic nature of the person in their looks (they did some experiments where they showed people photographs and asked them if they thought the person in the photo was a narcissist and basically got statistically significant results to indicate that narcissism can be recognised through visual clues (although they couldn't be sure what cues observes used to make their observations, but they got it right a lot of the time and that's what counts. lol they let anyone publish papers these days)

In light of that, I don't think this dude falls into the narcissist category (although my ex Most Definitely does, make that All my exes..) because if he does spend a lot of time thinking about what to wear, you'd never know to look at him. And he only ever shaves once a year as far as I can tell.

Further, the paper claims that narcissism is associated with vanity, exhibitionism and status-seeking and a host of aggressive maladaptive behaviours resulting from real or perceived ego-threats as to make narcissist quite unpopular with their peers, although they are able to use charm and hide their arrogance in brief encounters. So, the question for next study would be: is every arsehole a narcissist or are some arseholes just garden variety knobends?

 

[arabella]

So purely by coincidence, I came across a paper at work today that talks about narcissism and specifically manifestations of narcissism in physical appearance. doi: 10.1016/j.jrp.2008.06.007 if you are interested (and have access). Basically the paper claims that one of the main characteristics of narcissism is the excessive concern with personal appearance and excessive time/money spent on personal grooming, clothes, make up etc and that somehow this combines to give clues as to the narcissistic nature of the person in their looks (they did some experiments where they showed people photographs and asked them if they thought the person in the photo was a narcissist and basically got statistically significant results to indicate that narcissism can be recognised through visual clues (although they couldn't be sure what cues observes used to make their observations, but they got it right a lot of the time and that's what counts. lol they let anyone publish papers these days)

In light of that, I don't think this dude falls into the narcissist category (although my ex Most Definitely does, make that All my exes..) because if he does spend a lot of time thinking about what to wear, you'd never know to look at him. And he only ever shaves once a year as far as I can tell.

Further, the paper claims that narcissism is associated with vanity, exhibitionism and status-seeking and a host of aggressive maladaptive behaviours resulting from real or perceived ego-threats as to make narcissist quite unpopular with their peers, although they are able to use charm and hide their arrogance in brief encounters. So, the question for next study would be: is every arsehole a narcissist or are some arseholes just garden variety knobends?

Hi PG, from what I know the clinically narcissitic person is someone who is not just at the centre of the universe for others -- they ARE the universe. You may get drawn in but you really don't exist EXCEPT in relation to their use for you. The worst thing you can ever do is to openly love a narcissist. They will make all attempts to destroy you. It's far more complex than mere attention seeking. It's like a dark awful hole of worthlessness inside that can never be filled by anything or anyone. If you even try you are also worthless to them and they will mop up the floor with you in short order. If you are their child -- well God bless you is all I can say. They only respect those who stand up to them and tell them to can it -- and that respect is sprinkled with a lot of resentment and backbiting against the one who has brought them down to earth. These are scarey cowards and prey on anyone vulnerable to their charm and especially those who try to protect, care for, and love them. PS, one of the clinical narcissists I knew could have easily killed someone else just for the pleasure of it, if they had been assured of going undetected. Fortunately, he is no longer with us.

 

[precision grace]

I know arabella, like I said, was married to one for years. But they are really not easy to spot or even if you have suspicions, they are very good at masking.

Maybe the solution is to get them to take this test? lol
http://psychcentral.com/quizzes/narcissistic.htm

 

[chingching]

lol. you take a personality test one year, then again a few years later, it changes.

A person who has narcissistic tendencies, or who is a narcissist

I think how we interact, react and catalyse (is that a word?) with people is missing in this discussion. One person's narcissist is another's selfless hero, it literally can be true. What are you both bringing to the table to bring out the energy in each other. A narcissist can only remain to be so by virtue of other people giving the attention. When people use this term I always like to think back to the myth too, and how narcissus (sp?) was put under a spell so that he couldn't fall in love with echo, how divinely sad and cruel. And isnt this so with the narcissist, with all their insecurity and inability to find indentity from within they miss out on fulfilling relationships. What can one do to break the spell? I dunno, try looking at your feet instead of at your reflection the water, and make sure your feet are on the ground.

When you manage to distance yourself from an unhealthy interaction as is the case when someone displays a purely narcissistic face that when you nourish yourself as in 27.6, the end of looking for it in someone else. And then I suppose you can thank this person, for forcing you to do so.