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madversity

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hi. i have a few problems that r holding me back. i suffer from ocd and so i cant ask questions other than on one topic. i have strong emotional reactions when i try to even think about them.

i suffer from ADD and this wouldnt be a problem if i didnt have academic aspirations. unless i have a book or article i consider important i cant concentrate and lose my orientation, like on the dif info and threads.

i was accepted 3 times to undergrad school, but pulled out at the last minute from anxiety and reassurance that "something would go wrong" as always and waste money. many of u prob believe i should face this on my own but i really cant. will i ever be able to overcome my functional disorders and have at doing the things i dream of, research. and i ching. im doing ok with that as long as i cling to affairs of the heart...thats the ocd thingy. i read and write excruciatingly slow unless i want to b able to function regularily but dont dare begin a project, "knowing" i wouldnt follow through. i want to do so many things, but on most days cant even feed myself. hope didnt tell u more than u wanted to know...thank u for listening. tali.
 

michela

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Hi Tali- i also went through a horrible time with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. Funny, I did a reading here recently and got so many caring responses. I don't know what the hell it takes to really shake this ODC thing down, but I wish you and me the best of luck. Don't give up, that's the main thing.

Here's the thread
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/messages/92/1494.html?

Don't pull out of school because of anxiety, if going to school is what you want to do! Go to school and get help, talk to counsellors at the school, talk to professors and just get through it one step at a time. You are lucky you have will and desire to go to school. All that is easy for me to say. OCD is a strange thing, I know. I had a friend who took 3 hours to get out of bed because she couldn't stop looking at the lint on her sock. She couldn't get past the cereal box in the morning, she would get fixated on it with terror. A cereal box. I believe she had a trauma that triggered it, her mother died in a helicopter crash and she went to the site where her mother dies and found pieces of her flesh.

I think trauma triggers ocd. And then a lot of other factors. It's very complex.

Do you have someone you can work with on this? Besides us, here on the I Ching Clarity site?

Michela
 

deanna

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hi tali,

i can only empathize with you. i wanted to share something with you that i have recently found and had success with emotional overwhelm and i hear it works with OCD and you are encouraged to try it on anything, the worst that can happen is no result, and the best is relief to completely blowing out the root cause of a behaviour in the first place, if you are persistent. Severe PTSD in Vietnam vets is very successful even in just a few sessions. I'm presently working on a protocol using the techniques to quit smoking. It is called EFT, an energy healing tech involving tapping certain energy meridians on the body, a tiny little dab of NLP, anyway the site explains it better and it's completely free, there is a downloadable manual available for free, so you don't necessarily have to see a practitioner, take a course, that helps to locate the points on the body, but you can figure them out for yourself with the manual and lots of support from Tap and Be Free (a yahoo group). Like i said i have had success in immediate calming and clearing serious overwhelming through the roof anger, i'm just a little lazy at getting around to the tapping. gonna have to face that on the 20th when i quit smoking though. I'll be tapping every hour or so to calm urges. anyway following are some urls to get you started, i hope you'll try it out, and get some relief.

What is EFT
http://www.emofree.com/newcomer.htm#What

Only a small amount of info for OCD but don't let that stop you:

http://www.emofree.com/ocd.htm

Download the free manual:
http://emofree.com/downloadeftmanual.htm

blessings,
deanna
 

hilary

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Hi Tali,

A few years back, I read up everything I could find on OCD and how it could be treated. The best results came with Cognitive Behavioural Therapy.

As I expect you know all too well, there are chemical problems in the brain with OCD. There's medication that can correct these, has side-effects, stops working when you stop taking it, etc...

But a study found that people using cognitive therapy
1) cured (or improved) their symptoms
and
2) actually had the same positive chemical changes in their brains as you get with drugs.
(Only, of course, they created all this with their own resources - and no side-effects.)

In the UK, you'd ask your doctor to find you a cognitive behavioural therapist. What country do you live in? I'm sure someone here will know how to go about finding help wherever you are.
 
C

cheiron

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Hi

Hope this is useful.

Diagnosis of OCD is not always obvious.

There are a number of disorders which can produce similar symptoms.

So the treatments can vary.

A good diagnosis is quite essential? and yes I agree there are meds. which help alleviate the symptoms. They can be useful to give the patient some relief whilst the problem is tackled with psychotherapy.

Also, as Hilary says, CBT has a very good track record for helping here.

However there have been a plethora of similar ?brief therapies? which have been developed over recent years so do not worry too much if the letters change a little ? for example CAT (Cognitive Analytic Therapy) is also very good for OCD.

Some studies have found that finding a therapist you can really engage with is more important than the actual detail of the type of therapy.

A good way forward is to get a good diagnosis from a specialist. Discuss with them the therapy options (which may well include meds.). If appropriate get a referral onto a psychotherapist of whatever model is deemed most appropriate. Then have an initial session with them. In this initial session they should be assessing whether or not they can help you and also for you to decide whether or not they are suitable for you. I would recommend that you ask for time to mull over that first session before committing.

A decent therapist will not be put out if you were to say, ?Sorry I don?t think you are the therapist for me." and "Can you recommend another one?? Most often the therapist will understand and will be able to refer you on to another who they have confidence in.

Hoping this helps

--Kevin
 

madversity

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hi everyone and thank u for your replies. ive actually been on a cocktail of meds since i was 23. i suffer from bi polar depression and this coupled with a dysfunctional family and other disorders make it hard for me to keep my balance when im overloaded emotionally and cognitively. the sad thing is i believe equilibrium is what every organism seeks and strives to restore when out of whack - and for me it seems like a dream ill never be able to realize. all i want is balance and consistency and help. btw i am in psychotherapy but we barely get to touch many issues cuz everythings always so whak. i did my undergrad studues in westen philosophy and unrealistically believed i could get my gradguate education in philosophy of psychopathology and mental health and b a qualified researcher in the philosophy of psychology. i thought i could fit in, but i was younger then. i have alot to say but have no way to express them. i write and read slow, i have problems concentrating to a lecture, my mind wanders with no control. i am also emotional about my beliefs and am over stimulated by other perspectives. oh and i have a prob with ppl at large. i talk too much, laugh too loud, cut into others talking. im very passionate about my philosophy and believe critical thought can help us make real changes in attitude and conception. deal with depression and suicide as it should b. depression kills! anyway im blabbing again...told ya. id appreciate it if someone would cast coins regarding my disabilities, cuz i cant...thank you for listening. take care. tali.

psss plase excuze my bad english style and spelling mistakes. cant stand to reread.
 

michela

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Why not try an online cast? Hilary has one here, on Clarity, and there are others as well. If you can type an email, you can do an online cast.....
 
C

cheiron

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Hi Madversity

Your candour does you great credit.

It is a very tough illness to work with and to manage.

Would it be helpful to you if I, or someone else, did a reading for you?

I am aware that such a thing could be ?over stimulating? for some folk with the disorder with which you are grappling? so if the answer is ?yes? perhaps it would be better to ask a question which might be enabling rather than prognostic? (Apologies ? I know it is not for me to interfere with your choice of question).

I am posting my email on my profile for the next couple of days, in case you would like to write privately, and you would be welcome to do that.

Strength to you

--Kevin
 

etyrnal

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was accepted 3 times to undergrad school, but pulled out at the last minute from anxiety and reassurance that "something would go wrong" as always and waste money.

May the following definition of Anxiety by Osho assist you in your journey back to mental health:

Anxiety

Anxiety means "There is nobody to look after me. I have to carry the whole burden on my own shoulders. If I don't carry it then I am finished.' The anxious person thinks, 'Everybody is against me. Somehow, everybody is conspiring against me, everybody is at my throat. I have to protect myself. I have to be watchful, I have to plan, I have to move in such a way that I become the winner. Everybody is a competitor and they are all bent upon defeating me.'

This attitude creates anxiety, and it is the attitude of an irreligious person. When I say an irreligious person I don't mean a person who does not go to church or read the Bible - that is not the point. A person may go to church, but if he remains in anxiety he is not religious. He may be praying to God and reading the Bible just because of his anxiety. He may do it as kind of protection, security. But such a person is not religious. He is pathological and his religion will be pathological.

The truly religious person knows nothing of anxiety; he changes the whole gestalt. He says, 'I am part of this whole existence, and if trees are not worried and the birds are not going crazy and mad, and the animals are utterly happy, why can't I be? I belong to this exixtence, I am an essential part of it.' I belong to this existence, I am an essential part of it.' This trust,this understanding, this faith means that anxiety simply disappears, you have stopped creating it.

Then so much energy is released that it starts overflowiong. It is so abundant, so exuberant, that life becomes a festival. It becomes a dance. Then you are religious, then you are drunk with the divine.
 

madversity

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hi etyrnal, thanks for your reply. yes anxiety. i pretty much have my own thesaurus on mental states and have my own perception on most major issues, aware of my connex to the universe and beyond. anxiety is what we feel when we havent the tools to deal with what is ahead of us, or even the present moment. and many times it is valid and relevant. the prob is when it mortfies u. i am jewish and draw much comfort, support and knowledge in my religion. but....im stil fucked. sorry.

the prob is i dont want to b the best, just to b able to do what everyother person does when he wants some academic goal, which for me is research.

i dont fear others r out to get me cuz i am my greatest stumbling block and enemy. i think your view is a bit on the 2 dimensional side. our life experiences should b viewed along a continuum and not as yes/no questions.

life isnt about being free of difficult emotions, rather about balance and action. poetry in motion. sadly my life history with university is complex and atm i cant fanthom enrolling again. and time passes anyway...so thanks for your letter and i wish u well. tali.

pss i think your axiom that the life of a true believer is or should b free of anxiety, fear, doubt, and other emotions we find negative is not compatible with the wisdom of the Yi which teaches that difficulty is not always good or bad. it just is and the life cycle wouldnt be wole without it...
 

etyrnal

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think your axiom that the life of a true believer is or should be free of anxiety, fear, doubt, and other emotions we find negative is not compatible with the wisdom of the Yi which teaches that difficulty is not always good or bad. it just is and the life cycle wouldnt be whole without it...

You're right, I do believe one should be free of anxiety, fear and doubt and I don't believe that life just is. I do believe that we choose our difficulties as well as our happiness.

By Solomae Sonanda

Two Energies ? Two Choices


There are two energies on the planet. One is ?upward pulling? and one is ?downward pulling?. Call them what you will but, basically everything that is upward pulling creates unity, promotes harmony and brings balance. This is energy that is life-affirming, love-empowering, self-sacrificing, benevolent and brings us closer to our Divine nature by overcoming our lower nature and the illusion of separation. Everything that is downward pulling focuses on fear and doubt, it is dis-empowering, self-serving and malevolent. It perpetuates the lower nature of man by focusing on insecurity, greed, lust, judgment and the misuse of power. It is self-promoting through the exploitation and degradation of others. Everything really boils down to a choice between these two energies. At each stage of our spiritual evolution we are asked to become more discerning about what constitutes a ?good choice? and a ?bad choice?.

Obvious and Subtle Choices


The blatant choices in the human experience are obvious. It is not upward pulling to choose to lie, steal, commit violent acts, etc. For those on the spiritual path, these choices are already a given and one can clearly feel the downward pulling energies inherent in these choices. As mankind continues to evolve however, we need to understand the consequences of our choices which we are facing everyday within society. It is these subtle forms which require more discernment. The choices at the higher, more subtle levels are no less important than the more obvious choices. If anything, they are more important because they are so subtle that people become apathetic and accepting of these subtle, downward pulling energies as ?normal?, thereby causing a stagnation in the individual and collective growth of mankind.


An Example is Worth a Thousand Words

Most people may view the following examples as harmless. They are an accepted part of living in the world and most people, even ?spiritual people? participate in them every day. They are nonetheless, downward pulling energies and if no clear choice is made, they will continue to be perpetuated throughout the individual and collective body of mankind.

The most obvious form of this downward pulling energy that people accept and participate in is through television, movies and video games which reflect violence, vulgarity, obscene language, crude sexual innuendo and humor, etc. This constitutes most movies and T.V. programs being made, as well as the entertainment that our young people are participating in.

An R-rated movie may seem benign, perhaps it is true-to-life or contains a ?lesson? but, the energetic reality is that anytime you subject yourself to language that is vulgar, or the watching of violence in all its forms, you are making a choice to allow that downward pulling energy into your consciousness. You may think it does not effect you, you may think you can handle it, you may even think it is fine because it is all ?part of God?, but you are wrong.

Each and every moment you are creating what you will experience in the next. If you watch a movie or T.V. program which is downward pulling (no matter how subtle it is), you are literally drawing that downward pulling energy to yourself through your participation in it. (Your choice to focus on it through watching it, is your participation.) You may not make the connection at the time but, with that downward pulling energy within your consciousness, you will be drawing more of the same to yourself. It is very subtle as it takes place on the etheric plane first and then trickles down into the physical experience. Depression, sadness, feelings of anger or rage, feeling insecure and fearful of your survival, feeling trapped with low-self-esteem are all the result of this downward pulling energy. This may materialize externally as physical illness, being the victim of a crime, a break-up in your family, loss of your job, etc. You may wonder what you did ?wrong? to have these things happening to you, not realizing that it is the subtle choices you made, the energy you drew to yourself, which created your reality.

You can see that a lifetime of going with the crowd and trying to live according to the world?s expectations would leave you open to (and subject to) these downward pulling energies. The momentum of accumulated karma, also created through the perpetuation of downward pulling energies, is difficult to overcome unless one is very conscious of their choices in each moment and is willing to experience a denial of their lower nature (ego death), which always wants to follow the world for survival of the ego (separate existence).


Have the Courage to Trust Yourself

If something makes you uncomfortable, even slightly, LISTEN TO HOW YOU FEEL. How many of us have watched a movie only to turn our heads during the violence, or cringe at the vulgar language? These things cause a visceral reaction within the purity of your soul. With repeated exposure to these downward pulling energies, people become desensitized, the result of being more cut-off from the original soul purity. It is a self-perpetuating downward cycle and it is called hell (a level of consciousness, not a physical place). The most blatant forms of darkness and evil started out as more subtle forms of downward pulling energy. Through continued downward pulling choices, they continued to descend, hell was created, and evil came into existence as the complete absence of upward pulling energy.



Ascension


To ascend one?s consciousness requires a conscious awareness of these two energies and a repeated conscious choice toward the life-affirming and upward pulling energy. Each soul must learn what these different choices bring in terms of your experience. In each individual moment, the choice may seem insignificant, like whether to watch an inappropriate movie with one?s spouse. At first glance, the choice to watch the movie may seem benign. It may seem that spending time together would be an upward pulling choice, the movie being secondary. Upon deeper examination of the way one feels after the movie, it becomes clear that to choose upward pulling energy always requires us to deny the worldly choice. It is a continued surrender of the lower for the higher, of a smaller-self sacrifice, for a higher-self experience. Only through such repeated choices does the lower nature become purified and the lower energies cease to hold any influence over us.

Pay attention to what you are allowing into your consciousness. In each and every moment there is a choice. The choice is yours, as is the responsibility for that choice. Collectively, the world reflects the total of our choices. You must take responsibility for what you allow into your consciousness, be aware of where you place your attention. Gossip, off-color jokes, defensive or sarcastic remarks, and choices which reflect a lack of integrity are some examples which are presented to you each day. As a spiritually-aware person, you must take a stand and not take the path of least resistance. It?s not OK to go along with the crowd, you must be true to yourself if the Spiritual is to penetrate the physical and if the momentum of the energy on this planet is to shift.


The path is narrow and few enter because few are willing to continually deny the world and turn away from these subtle, downward pulling energies. The higher you go, the more subtle they become, until, through continued purification of the lower nature, you are unable to allow even the subtlest form of downward pulling energy into your consciousness. At this point, you will be creating as one in Divine union. Every thought will move only toward unification and harmony, upward pulling and expanding, you will be a creator of light and a source of love throughout the cosmos.
 

madversity

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dear eternyti, i apologize for my rude reply, i know u want me to feel and function well. its just that to me to b drunk with the devine is my idea of a bad weekend. im into balance and that is not my quest. i seek balance and shun extreems.
that is what philosophy, the bible, the YI and my own experience have taught me. but i cant seem to avoid them. am i jinxed? what is my tikun?
 

madversity

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hi eternaty. we'll have to agree to disagree. i dont see self identity as a prob, its ppls weak character giving in to temptation. temptation is to turn your back on who u r, how u feel and what u need to be balanced, thus healthy.

our seperatness and union with the cosmos exist side by side and denying the one for the sake of what u call "spirituality" has led to madness and disaster throut history. the key is balance not dissociation. know yourself, your nature as a human, as an individual and as a part of creation. make responsible choices and act accordingly. and all is intention and context bound. btw y do u quote so much? tali.
 

etyrnal

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I quote so much because I could not have said it any better than the person who quoted it.
happy.gif


I have learned much from the people I quote. I do not pretend to know how to heal your disorders. I can only tell you what has helped to heal me, and the above article had once helped me.

hi eternaty. we'll have to agree to disagree. i dont see self identity as a prob, its ppls weak character giving in to temptation. temptation is to turn your back on who u r, how u feel and what u need to be balanced, thus healthy.

I don't see how we disagree because the article above is basically saying thing you are saying i.e., people's problems stem from temptation, turning your back on who you are, how you feel.

Be well.
 

lenardthefast

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Hi Etyrnal,

Enjoy your posts AND your quotes. Thanks.

Certainly agree that only 'we' can heal ourselves, just as only 'we' can hurt ourselves.'Finding' our inner selves can entail a lifetime of effort and dedication.

Tali:
I have empathy for your condition, as I also am bi-polar and dread the depressive end of the stick. Hold fast to your inner light, even when you feel its been extinguished.(Its not) Humor has always been the best medicine for me.

Namaste,
hex04.gif

Leonard
 

madversity

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hi leonard. im tali the slow, deanna asked if im persistent, well just with the Yi, caring for my pets and having too many operative ideas i cant do anything to express productively.

the only euphoric manic attacks were my first and third. since then i am too get nauxious when tempo fastens within. i fear the classic manic attack more than i do straight forward depression though i am at danger of losing it when the energies that would usually spark a manic attack build up till a pre-psychotic state....and it takes only one moment to let go. my main frustration is not being able to do what id want to. im miss dys-functional.

would u say only we can cure ourselves if u had diabetes or cancer? depression kills!!! of course we must help ourselves but that doesnt mean that when things get too much to take in and process we need professional therapeutic and medication to help. or when our debilitating patterns (cognitive, emotional and functional threaten our very existence. as for spiritality, isnt morality and a kind and caring disposition good enuf. i believe such bogus concepts call our attention fom what matters, humanism, and no hubris, heh.

btw how if our ego is what brings to our downfall that we r to b resposive to its needs. how can u try to nihilate my "separateness" and responsibly c to my needs - well isnt this a contradiction. both leonard and etyrnal tend to attribute meaning and value out of any given context. it is dangerous to think they r. is x good or bad? bad question. good for who? at what time? etc.

deanna good luck with your tapping. im gonna ck out your recommendation thank u. tali?
 

hilary

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Hi Tali,

What kind of question would you want to ask the I Ching about your troubles? Or approaching it another way, what would you want and need from an answer?

I think the question needs to be put into words before anyone casts a hexagram. Spending time on the question is a bit of a hobby-horse of mine...
 

lenardthefast

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Hi Tali,

IMHO. by naming yourself 'Miss Dys-Functional" and describing all of your percieved negative traits, you are affirming these things and freely giving THEM; YOUR power.

Yes, I have witnessed many people heal themselves of both minor and major afflictions through self-awareness and positive affirmation, myself being one. Yes, I am still 'acting' bi-polar, but I am working that out at present.

Please understand that I am not being judgemental here, just sharing my experience, with the hope that given enough anecdotes(mine, and other folks here), something might click and you will create your own.

I believe everything is connected and that our hearts are the point of that connection.
heart.gif


Namaste,
Leonard
 
C

candid

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Etyrnal,

I was with you enthusiastically up until the 'forego the world, the path is narrow' idea. If we don't experience a degree of 'lower energy' we miss the input of stimuli, which then can not be transmuted to the higher energy. Or in Ching terms, there will be no 44... ever. I agree this could be a legitimate path for the ascetic, but it can smother the heart of the less devoted, or just the less ascetic personality.

Tali,

I think Leonard made an important point. By labeling these trials as your disfuntionality, you've branded yourself thusly. This, I believe, lends power to the darkness you struggle against.

Take care, and try... to love yourself... just a little more... just as you are.

C
 

cal val

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Tali...

Hi there. I'm loving your posts.

You have been anointed with a double-edge sword. While you have the gift to feel and care and love more deeply than most people, you are faced with greater challenges than most people can ever hope to understand... myself included. And you face that lack of understanding every day.

I have no advice to offer since I am not you but am one of those who can't possibly understand what it is to be you. I just want to say I greatly admire and respect your honesty, courage, self-awareness and wisdom.

As to your being dysfunctional... welcome to Clarity. You should feel quite at home here. None of us is perfect. None of us that post is anyway... *grin* We're all imperfect. And it is not the perfect, but the imperfect, who have need of love. I love you... just as you are (wise words Candid...*grin*). I look forward to reading more of your thoughts here.

Val
 

etyrnal

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I agree this could be a legitimate path for the ascetic, but it can smother the heart of the less devoted, or just the less ascetic personality.

True, the path is not for everyone, but I cannot agree that it can smother the heart of the less devoted. I do not believe that can happen unless someone were trying to influence or change the less devoted's beliefs in some way. And, the less devoted may not appreciate this path as much as the devoted, but I do have my doubts about any smothering effects.


If we don't experience a degree of 'lower energy' we miss the input of stimuli, which then can not be transmuted to the higher energy. Or in Ching terms, there will be no 44...ever.

So choose your lower energy experiences with care--choose what KNOW can be transmuted into higher energy. Lower energy is not necessarily bad, but can be bad if we don't choose carefully.
 

cal val

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<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

December 8 is Bodhi Day, the day Shakyamuni Buddha attained awakening about 2500 years ago. It is said that when Buddha saw the Morning Star early on that morning, he awoke to the truth; the Buddha attained enlightenment and became the "enlightened one." I think that, in essence, he awoke to the "middle path." In other words, he found a path, or way of living his life, that gave him a state of peace and calm in his life.

He realized that neither living a life of extreme pleasure, which he had done as Prince Siddhartha, nor living a life of extreme asceticism, which he did for 6 years prior to his awakening, could lead him to find peace of mind. http://www.livingdharma.org/MemorableSermons/Kawawata-MiddlePath.html<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

One of my favorite quotes is "Too much asceticism is worse than none at all."

Balance.

Love,

Val
 
T

tashij

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tali, i like what you write and your honesty. maybe you bring people and animals things that they need, but you just dont get to know that. anyway, this sure is a good thread! so i hope you can do the iching. myself, i wish i would stop doing it. someone here said it would have been better for chinese civ if they tied a rock around it and threw it in the ocean! i think the i ching wishes i would do that. but im addicted to it. i try to do it less but i still sneak in readings every other day or so. i wish i had the courage to just live life getting oracles from pure thought, from life, but i cant tell my delusions from my fantasies, know what i mean???. i wish you the best. i got 15 to 45 about you but i dont know if it's me or you.

best
lov
tash.
 

madversity

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hi everyone. thank u for all your replies, ill try and respond to them, even though this interaction is somewhat overwhelming for me it is important to me. so thank tou.

the bible teaches us that mans real sin is always wanting to be something he wasnt meant to. garden of eden, tower of babelon. i truly believe that god created us as humans in a ma terial world and in this world of ours body and mind are intensionaly bound. pure spirit has no place in the human experience on earth. god is pure thought, him alone. and btw how does asceticism forward compassion and mental health? i thing what they mainly propel is its condoners ego as they set themselves apart from us the "less devoted", as a self-serving elite. hmmm.

imho a good person is one who does not draw pleasure or feel empowered by the weakness or humiliation of another. he stands up for the weak (animals too), esp children and aids those in distress best he can. he looks down only on those who CHOOSE to live a lie in one two or all ways.
the lie is living with a spouse he has no love or respect for and the evil is bringing children to the world just to prove their verility and "realize" their sexuality to completion. anyway, i degress.

hilary, truth be told the very effort to formulate a question is painful to me...given its being such a sensitive issue and cuz i have ocd that makes it difficult for me to ask personal questions except on ONE topic... : ( though i can for others : ) and like u i think formulating the question is 50 % of the process. kevin has offered to toss for me but i havent heard from him yet. he was kind enuf to suggest a number of optional questions for me to choose, though i liked them al, heh. maybe he will be willing to share his inquiry with all of u...?

val. thank u for your embracing words. i took them to my heart. balance sister balance! here look sTAbiLIty, heh.

candid thank u for your letter, i do my best but its hard to teach an old dog new twix. its a long slow process, hmm, ring a bell? heh. i try to avoid self defecation and words from ppl like u guys do help. tali. hope i thanked everyone....and im sending 1st draft so plaese excuse errors style and brutishness...
 
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candid

Guest
Etyrnal, perhaps 52.3 W/B might help to illustrate my point:

"Nine in the third place means:
Keeping his hips still.
Making his sacrum stiff.
Dangerous. The heart suffocates.
This refers to enforced quiet. The restless heart is to be subdued by forcible means. But fire when it's smothered changes into acrid smoke that suffocates as it spreads.
Therefore, in exercises in meditation and concentration, one ought not to try to force results. Rather, calmness must develop naturally out of a state of inner composure. If one tries to induce calmness by means of artificial rigidity, meditation will lead to very unwholesome results."

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madversity

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hey tashij i just read your post and its funny. im ocd myself so dont feel whack. though i do think u should trust the YI and know it let u find it cuz it new on some level u needed it. it came to me cuz i was isolated and afraid. allow the Yi philosophy seep into u and trust your intuition and common sesnse. and yes your feelings, dont forget them, what do they tell u? i think a good thing for u might b working with clients ALOT, heh. thank u for tossing for me. really. but what was the question? take care. tali. oh and no sillyness about being a negative force in this world so no rocks and ropes. u stay put.
 
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candid

Guest
laughs at 'u stay put'

Tali, your humor may be the best of all medicines.
 
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tashij

Guest
tali i just put your name in my mind ... with a ".***8**..........????????" no question, just pinkered a responce for everything you wrote in your first post to me the real questions almost have no words, its just a bitg gaping unknowing. and the iching gives me a name for it. that's why i dont think its so good for me. i have all this unknowing, shouldnt i just sit with that in my gullet and see what happens, unmitigated by my fear or grasping to have an answer???? maybe id really come up with something but maybe id just come up with a banal succession of moments with nothing. when we get saved if that's what we want, do we get saved by ourselves or something from without????

so that's what i did when i read your first post , no wonder my readings never clear anything up! only leave more unkowing, but 15 to 45 ..... 15 is about nature balanceing and 45 is about the great effort of the king to gather the people together.

maybe thats what you are doing here, you cut thru the bullshit and bring it all together.

what you said was one of the kindest things. from gut expereince you have. i dont work with clients, i dont have any degrees, what i do in my life is work for free whereever people need help. pick up what i can from people who know more, a latchkey kid i guess. im not on the professional end, stricly the trenches type of thing, low tech. cant help it. the deal is they have to support me cause i can hardly be trusted to make a living!!!!! in this way i live off the books,. if i die in the gutter, so be it.
 
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tashij

Guest
tali, o ne thing i think of. this little child i know who grew up in a really sad family. fighting, no care, the kids never even properly trained to use the toilet. he couldnt talk for years. also he had slight birth defect and was separtated from his mother at birth, flown in a helicopter to a hospital, so right away, he had strokes of danger against him. this little kid, he couldnt speak, but he listened. and he knew everything going aaround him, he just couldnt talk to it. well this little kid, today, is a brilliant beautiful kid. he understands everything, while others are talking, he is listening, and knowing what is going on. what you said to me about the i ching was so wise, could it be you have this kind of situation? where really your obstacle gives you a deeper understanding? this could be a possiblity because what you said, in that small space, really meant something to me.
 
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candid

Guest
Hi Tash,

Did you mean you threw 8 for Tali? It wasn't clear, but if you did that makes a whole lot of sense. The condensed meaning: keep what you've got together, hold to it, don't give it up, reach out to others of like mind and hold to them as well. Many hands make light work. The total opposite of isolation.

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