Effect of Quantum Jumping - Hex 23 Unchanging

[AnitaS]

Hello All!

I have been trying out Burt Goldman's Quantum Jumping technique and asked the I Ching what effect it would have on me and got Hexagram 23 unchanging. I'm hoping it means pruning, stripping away - old and negative notions and habits. I know the program itself is fine because I had received 14 line 5 changing to 1 before I began for what if I tried it. Any suggestions? Has anyone here tried it?

Thank you!

 

[goddessliss]

Hi Circe, what is Quantam Jumping? - Liss

 

[AnitaS]

Quantum Jumping created by Burt Goldman is a technique for self actualization and making dreams reality via accessing your different selves in parallel universes, Radical, but has excellent reviews and makes sense to me.

 

[moss elk]

"I'm hoping it means pruning, stripping away - old and negative notions and habits."
What you are hoping for is more like hex 18 repair.

Hex 23 is about negative influences overpowering positive ones.
The villians prevaing.

 

[moss elk]

So now we need to understand the 14.5 answer.

chewing...

 

[moss elk]

A story of 14.5 from my experience...

I went to a small social gathering at the home of a married couple.
They are good people generally even though the husband (a generally kind and thoughtful man) sometimes behaves passive agressively. (He doesnt speak out early when he should, tensions build up and he ends up lashing out verbally on someone for an issue that if he spoke up on sooner, would never have built up tension)
The evening progressed. One man in attendance was the sort of fellow who gets very enthusiastic in conversation, sometimes to the point of interjecting/interrupting someone who is speaking. This happens to be a pet peeve of the man whose house we were in. Over the course of three hours Enthusiastic man interrupted house owner once, later again, and later again sort of taking over the conversation. House owner Roared like Thunder at enthusiastic man in frustration! "I hate when you do that!, what the hell is wrong with you!?...etc" The volume shocked the room full of people into silence. My own heart was thumping in my chest.

I spoke up calmly, clearly and seriously, but not angrily or aggressively (bringing forth my majesty), "Jack, that was wrong of you, you overreacted and screamed at him, he did not deserve that"
Jack lowered his head, conceeding that it wasnt the best way to act. He then explained his feelings and a genuine conversation followed amongst the group about what happened, both participants gaining self insight into their behaviours, and saying they would each try to be more aware in the future.

So... what if you tried quantum jumping? 14.5
Does that mean it will make you a king or master of a situation?
Not necessarily. It could mean that a situation may arise where you will have to bring forth your majesty/dignity in order to deal with it.

Im interested in hearing others take on 14.5

 

[AnitaS]

Thank you Moss Elk. But if you look at the threads here on 23 unchanging - it looks like getting down to the bare bones, the core of the matter. I have anyway begun and will let you know how it turns out.

 

[moss elk]

Time will tell then.

Oh by the way, if you meet the Moss Elk from universe 773.121x~pudding_blue£,
Tell him he is a big fat jerk and i want my stuff back.

Thanks

 

[sooo]

23 can been seen an interesting way concerning quantum leaping or jumping or whatever one wishes to call a shift in ones experience of reality or consciousness. True, it can be stripping away the unessential to get to the essential core, and it can also be stripping ones notion of who and/or what they are, what their subjective experience of their reality is to an altogether different perception of their reality. I think the whole infinitely multiple or parallel universe theory can sound surreal and therefore unrealistic (not saying it is or isn't), but I do know that some things can entirely change my perception of the world I'm in and the experience of myself in it, in an instant. IC readings sometimes have that effect: even before my cognitive reasoning can piece it together, I'm suddenly in a different space, a different state of mind, seeing things altogether differently. Other things can have that effect too, such as shocks of one sort of another. All those experiences strip away one reality and bring me to another. The same can happen in a downer way: feeling fine and balanced, and suddenly the world seems dark and dreary. News of a very sick loved one can have this effect, or any sudden sense of loss. What ever the cause, one reality is stripped away and instantly transports into another reality.

14.5, wow, Moss, that's the first negative take on that line I've ever heard or heard of. Personally, the action or reaction of that house owner not only seems entirely natural to me, but well deserved. There's nothing more aggravating then someone who doesn't let others finish their thought before blurting out their own comments on top of the another's. It's unclear to me whether 14.5 was an actual reading in that situation or whether you just applied it because it fit your own judgment of a wrong or inappropriate action, but if I were to take such liberty, I'd say it fit the action of the homeowner quite rightly. It was his home for one, and he was correct and honest. I don't hear passive aggression in what he did at all, only restraint to the point of breaking through or deliverance. So it made others tense a moment; big deal. The interrupter would have made me tense, as it did to the home owner. His show of humility afterward was another type of greatness, imo.

Applied to Circe's reading, I interpret it as a potentially creative action, and 14.5 does change to 1.

Different strokes, but that's how I see it. I'm interested to hear more from Circe on her experience with Quantum Jumping, though I think it's something we do unconsciously all the time. Having conscious control and awareness of it, though, may prove to be an interesting experience.

 

[moss elk]

Yes, a mans home is his castle, as it were.

My understanding of the aspect of passive aggression i refered to is something like:
Due to a desire to be kind, one withholds saying something that ought to be said.
Then, withholds it again and again until the pent up energy of what needs to be expressed
comes out in an excessive manner. (Of course there are the subtle 'unconcious' acts of sabatoge included in the term)

My take on subjectivity:
Experience is always subjective.
Objectivity is a myth, it is an act of the imagination or in other words an exercise of abstract thinking.
(Which could be argued as a game we can play due to having language/symbols)

I did not intend to express 14.5 as a negative thing at all!
Quite the opposite: a positive dignified behaviour or reaction. (In my example: to an undignified behaviour)
So, given that, the reading about the result of the practice of quantum jumping could certainly mean Development of character. Im interested to hear about the results too, and not knowing them now could only say 'time will tell'.


About home owner and enthusiastic guy:
They have been friends with regular contact for twenty years. They are both intelligent people,
One a mathmetician, the other a teacher of sorts. Home owner has plenty of opportunities to dialog with enthusiastic guy about his likes and dislikes, in order to have a respectful and dignified relationship (or peaceful understanding)
The way he Thunderously blew up on enthusiastic guy was undignified, it lacked self control and was unkind.
When i pointed it out to him, he knew it to be true and apologised. And yes, he thereby possessed greatness through humility.

I am something of a skeptic regarding systems people market and sell.
And im sure that came out in my attempt at humor.

 

[AnitaS]

Thank you Sooo! Yes 23 does imply what you describe.

 

[moss elk]

Some names for 23:
Decompose, Decay, Disintegration, Ruin...
I can't see how you are seeing this as something positive for you.

And i cant help but ask:
is there a reason why you guys aren't looking the judgement on 23 ??

No advantage/benefit/nothing worthwhile. (Here / with this goal/activity)

Anyway, good luck.

 

[pocossin]

You give two castings for the same situation, apparently.

What effect will Burt Goldman's Quantum Jumping technique have on me?
14.5 > 1

It will prepare you for something better. In this matter, count your pennies. When it stops working out, stop doing it. Don't let it compromise what you already know to be of value.

What effect will Burt Goldman's Quantum Jumping technique have on me?
23 unchanging

Same interpretation: It will prepare you for something better. I understand the splitting apart of 23 as clearing weeds and breaking the soil in preparation for sowing, as is happening here at this time of year. Good luck with your program. Good luck with finding something better. And, No, I have not tried it. I experiment with many physical things, but my spiritual direction is fixed.

 

[sooo]

Some names for 23:
Decompose, Decay, Disintegration, Ruin...

It doesn't define what is being stripped, decomposed, decayed, disintegrated or ruined though, does it?

It is our current perception of our reality that is being, well, all those things, and is brought to something closer to the core, as pruning is supposed to do. The superficial is stripped to get to what is essential.

If you keep giving moral judgments to these hexagrams, you'll have a very humanized version of nature, and in this case, quantum science. As much as I respect Wilhelm's IC, this is the chief problem I have with his rendering: not surprising since his parents where Christian missionaries to China and his mentor (or master) was of the Confucian school, both which are and were essentially, moralistically human.

Quantum leaping is nothing new, Moss, it's just a name that is being applied here to a method of change, hopefully for the better, such as when the useless and lanky stems are pruned (another synonym for 23) from a rose bush: the wasted energy or chi returns to the roots (generously giving to what is below), and from there, healthy and new roses form and bloom.

I haven't applied my own opinion of this leader or teacher, but he reminds me of several pastors I've known. Not an especially favorable impression for me. But I'm not including my own personal impression of this guy in my response or interpretation of Circe's reading. I'm simply looking at 23 as applied to the theory of change through 'skipping' over the tedious processes of change and cutting to the core of the desired change. I know this phenomenon to be factual through my own experiences with the IC. I can recall specific incidents where my state of mind, or of being, was transformed so quickly, before my rational mind caught up to any kind of rational reasoning. It happened instantly. I can identify the idea of 23 to that phenomenon easily. I skipped, leapt, or jumped to the empowered state, cutting to the quick, as it were. Stripping away the whole deductive reasoning process but arriving nonetheless to where I needed to be.

I don't think I can make it any more clear than that. Not saying you should agree, but it is my interpretation regardless, since you have asked.

 

[AnitaS]

Hello Moss

A disintegration of false self. I am full of it.

 

[AnitaS]

Hello Pocossin

That's right - for something better. I hope. I did pick up an important tip from the programme but although I have gone through the entire thing, I'm finding it difficult to ask my parallel self for advice. Some of it makes sense, some doesn't. As for credibility, Goldman offers a total refund if you're not satisfied and the reviews are fantastic.

 

[AnitaS]

By the way, Pocossin this is not any kind of spiritual path. I am dedicated to mine. Quantum Jumping is just a way for me to hopefully make things easier on the way. As the years go by, the practice gets tougher and more subtle and there are so many negative patterns in me that I want to get rid of and it's not easy. There has to be a clearing before I can progress. Anyway, I am now trying the Silva method for which I got hex 55 unchanging. Maybe this is the 'better'. Thank you for the good wishes.

 

[goddessliss]

By the way, Pocossin this is not any kind of spiritual path. I am dedicated to mine. Quantum Jumping is just a way for me to hopefully make things easier on the way. As the years go by, the practice gets tougher and more subtle and there are so many negative patterns in me that I want to get rid of and it's not easy. There has to be a clearing before I can progress. Anyway, I am now trying the Silva method for which I got hex 55 unchanging. Maybe this is the 'better'. Thank you for the good wishes.

What are you talking about here circe - that your spiritual path gets more difficult
or what are you referring to in terms of 'practise?- Liss

 

[NemeanMagik]

By the way, Pocossin this is not any kind of spiritual path. I am dedicated to mine. Quantum Jumping is just a way for me to hopefully make things easier on the way. As the years go by, the practice gets tougher and more subtle and there are so many negative patterns in me that I want to get rid of and it's not easy. There has to be a clearing before I can progress. Anyway, I am now trying the Silva method for which I got hex 55 unchanging. Maybe this is the 'better'. Thank you for the good wishes.

This is just my take on this, and nothing more - nothing to do with readings or nowt...so treat it as you choose Circe. There are many ways to skin a cat (oops, sorry that is not a very nice, nor politically correct, image), and whether we are 'stripped' through being in error and needing the rubbish removed by suffering, or whether we offer ourselves for 'stripping', spiritual growth (whatever we mean by that), development anyway in terms of being more and more 'real' (like the Velveteen rabbit?) can happen. My caveat would be related to the marketing aspect which I presently largely abhore in the spiritual development field, but I suppose it is almost inevitable.

I have not done much in the way of any of these type of 'courses' since my life has generally been such a mess, I go through 'strippings' every few years anyway, and mostly am 'forced' to develop as I am such a decadent character. And it costs me nothing. Except the pain I am favoured with because of my own resistance --which is itself a result of ignorance and obduracy.

There are many routes. But the main thing is to be willing to work with whatever happens as positively as you can, trying to seek the real lessons as early on in the series of breakdowns as you can.

:bows:

 

[AnitaS]

Hi Liss - well my practice is akin to Buddhism. But while I follow the 'precepts', getting rid of the dirt within - the robbers in the mind as Buddha had put it - is far more difficult.

 

[AnitaS]

Hi Nemean

You're right. Ideally one should deal with whatever it is head on without using techniques but I'm not that strong. As I said, it becomes more and more difficult.

 

[NemeanMagik]

Hi Nemean

You're right. Ideally one should deal with whatever it is head on without using techniques but I'm not that strong. As I said, it becomes more and more difficult.

I am not sure what you are saying here. I don't think it has anything to do with being 'strong'. In the end the struggle will be what the struggle will be, regardless of any specific 'approach'; the issues are the issues... We either decide to deal with them, or not. No therapist, no course, no nothing-- alters that challenge.

 

[AnitaS]

Well, I am dealing with it in the way I can. I'm not escaping. On the contrary, I'm choosing to look at my dark side and transform it, which is why it is difficult.

 

[moss elk]

It doesn't define what is being stripped, decomposed, decayed, disintegrated or ruined though, does it?.

Sure it does. "Evil doers" stripping away goodness. (the negative lines stripping away the positive ones) It says so in the lines.

If you keep giving moral judgments to these hexagrams, you'll have a very humanized version of nature, and in this case, quantum science.

Whatever else the Yi may be, is it not also an entire book of value judgments (a roadmap for correct/good behavior/good fortune) for use by us humans??
Surely, I can't be the only one who has noticed this?

 

[pocossin]

Whatever else the Yi may be, is it not also an entire book of value judgments (a roadmap for correct/good behavior/good fortune) for use by us humans??

Are value judgments so bad? To live is to make choices, and a choice is a value judgment. Difficulty with our choices occurs when we fail to consider the whole of ourselves, that is, when our choices are not wise, and this is true of the smallest things, not just the major issues of life. I am unlikely to ever choose anything from Burt Goldman, but Circe is a different person, and Quantum Jumping may be the best that life offers her at this moment. She may learn something from it, even if she learns it was a bad choice, and come to a better understanding of herself.

 

[sooo]

Sure it does. "Evil doers" stripping away goodness. (the negative lines stripping away the positive ones) It says so in the lines.

Negative line, hmm. Well, Wilhelm might be in agreement there. He's also big on the good vs evil dynamic. But then, he also considers yin/female lines to be inferior and yang/male to be superior. So if you buy into that philosophy, then your position is understandable.

I see neither as superior or inferior, or for that matter weaker or stronger. Earth cultures, both ancient and modern, view earth/mother as Goddess. As Joesph Campbell has said, to the infant, the male is little more than mother's hairy helper, and not very good at that.

In any case, I make no connection between a yielding or open line as being evil, nor a firm line as being superior. When the last line of 23, a yang or solid line, is stripped, there is pure earth in all her open splendor. The next progression is 24, when the yang/firm line returns again from the bottom. And on and on it goes.

Whatever else the Yi may be, is it not also an entire book of value judgments (a roadmap for correct/good behavior/good fortune) for use by us humans??
Surely, I can't be the only one who has noticed this?

I think the term "The Judgment", which Wilhelm uses, isn't originally labelled as such, and I believe it is not intended to be a value judgment aspect of the hexagram but more the natural conditions which constitute a result. Paraphrasing 23, the fruitless is useless: prune it. There are times when we grow useless things, useless and fruitless attitudes, useless beliefs and notions, and stripping them in the case of 23 is the profitable thing to do. I surmise your view was that Circe's involvement with this course or experiment for her was a useless branch that should be stripped. I can't say that's wrong, but it's not my impression of her reading, at least not if the wording of her question is the basis of 23 being the answer. Her question to Yi asked for "the effect of quantum jumping", and the answer stripping, to me, meant.. well, I've already explained that in-depth. Her answer for "what if I tried it?" was 14.5-1. Based on her specific questions and Yi's answers, it struck and still strikes me as something worth trying. But then, I don't automatically associate 23 with evil, but rather as something to be pruned, moved away, bypassed. It's that something which is in question here. I think the possibility exists of moving directly to goal and pruning away the usual process of arriving there. In my case, I don't think it's possible, I know it's possible because it's happened to me on several occasions, though I hadn't considered it as quantum jumping at the time, yet I can see how the principle can apply. I'm curious to learn from Circe's experience with working with it on a conscious level.

If I may take a bit of a leap on my own here. Consider what happens when a legitimate guru, sensei, master, teacher etc. imparts illumination to a student: they don't always explain the entire idea in detail. Rather, they impart as though at the speed of light, or even instantly transferring illumination, through a koan or tap on the forehead, or for a Zen master, sometimes a cane across the back of the student in meditation to awaken them. This is the idea of stripping of time, space and reasoning that I'm referring to.

 

[goddessliss]

but Circe is a different person, and Quantum Jumping may be the best that life offers her at this moment. She may learn something from it, even if she learns it was a bad choice, and come to a better understanding of herself.

I'm with pocossin here, a choice is a choice however it turns out we can always learn something about ourselves. - Liss

 

[NemeanMagik]

I've done Quantum Jumping a number of times. For what it is worth, the sudden enlightenment was great while it lasted.........but it didn't last. I think when this sort of thing occurs, most of us find that we lapse back again and again to base line.
I remember when I first read 'Course in Miracles', my world was radically transformed simply by reading the blank verse, the entire book, whilst withholding all judgement of the content - which is what is advised. The result was amazing. I was at peace, loving, joyful, clear in my thinking.....
The same happened when I tried my own technique of 'ventilating' to pull myself out of a major depressive breakdown during which I had ect, and various other evil happenings to my person..........and after 6 solid weeks of that praying into the emptiness of my own room, I felt encircled by a spirit of love and joy and peace again...........
But these occasions, whilst dramatic and having tremendous impact on me and others, and my environment in general, and my achievements............did not last.
In the end, it is the plodding day by day, or rather moment by moment that is the route.
It doesn't matter how much money you spend, sudden enlightenment generally............requires a lot of maintenance...

 

[Trojina]

he finds quantum jumping quite tiring

 

[NemeanMagik]

ought to be a 'LIKE' button here, Troj. x