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Endless love

helena

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Dear I Ching reader,
Maybe you can help me please to get some insight.
After 5 months my ex bc has come back into my life again! He sent me an email first and one hour later I saw him. Of course we ended in making love. He still does not want to make a commitment with me as he needs to marry a Turkish woman. Now he is sending me emails every week and telling me that he misses me. I made him a suggestion but he did not answer. I don't know where to go with him.
This is the first time he ever said he missed me.
But he is not willing to go against the family and his culture. Please can you help me?
Thank you very much already for taking your time for me.
Best wishes Elaine
 

chinuajin

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Dear Elaine,

Even without the I Ching, I will warn you to be very, VERY careful with this guy. If he truly loves you, he would fly in the face of Family and Culture both... in a heartbeat.

Beware that he doesn't manipulate you. Telling you that he "missed you" may be Sincere... but I'm afraid that its more likely to be an easy way for him to get what he wants.
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(And this is not a gender thing... it's just that some people are very good at using others, for whatever needs.)

*Sigh* I'll stop sounding Parental, now, and do a casting for you... Give me 1/2 hour...

Chinuajin
 

chinuajin

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OK... I received

Primary: 10 (Treading, Lu), changing 2,3 & 6.

Nuclear: 37 (Dwelling/Clan, Chia Jen)

Final: 49 (Skinning/Revolution, Ko)


This is a very busy reading. Three changing lines in the hexagram almost always signal turmoil, like herring-bone clouds signal coming rain. All told, the series isn't very hopeful, and seems to be warning you to be careful.

"Look before you leap" seems to be the import of the Primary Hexagram. You are chasing a Tiger... beware not to tread on its tail! Continue your emails, but be careful never to try and 'force' him. If he is going to change his views about "needing" to marry a Turkish woman, the change will have to come from within him.

The Nine at the Top urges you to look at the Culture he comes from (...predecessors are extending their Help...). You are in a position to learn in this situation. Be thorough, but be discrete.

The Final Hexagram, "Ko", admonishes you to strip away the past, like a snake shedding last season's skin. Snakes, just before they shed, are nearly blind, as their skin also covers their eyes, and becomes milky at this time.

Be patient, and let time take its Course, and things will clear again.

The Nuclear Hexagram (Dwelling/Clan) suggests that you use your nurturing power to help the situation. Patience and perseverance is called for.

Look inside yourself to learn your Path.

************************************************

Whew... one of the most complex readings I've ever done! I'm afraid that I may not have been very objective, and may have read my "gut bias" into things... but I hope this helps, some. I'm not really comfortable with this Interpretation... any further help out there?

Chinuajin
 

helena

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Dear Chinuajin,
Thank you for the reading you gave me!!!
Your reading is as complex as this relationship.
Yesterday I wrote him a letter to leave me alone.
He is tearing me apart. Although I love him so much, I cannot take the hurt anymore. He always comes back for me. Don't know why.
I just want him to grow up. And see the harm he is causing.
When I have lost him over this it was not meant to be. Maybe you are right to have more patience in this. But this is going on for almost one and a half year.
Maybe I have ruined your reading now as I did not have enough patience to let it go further.
I just want him to know that he is hurting me badly with this.
Thank you for your effort very very much.
Best wishes Elaine
 

helena

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Dear Hilary,
Although Chinuajin has taken so much effort already. And has given me a very good insight in the problem. I would apreciate very much if you would give your opinion in this case also.
Thank you very much for taking your time for me already.
Best wishes, Elaine
 

helena

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Dear I ching readers,

After all the things that has been said and done, I still cannot let go. I am so sorry to bother you with this, but please can you help me for the last time. One night before the reading from Chinuajin I wrote Ayhan a letter to leave me alone(now one week ago). He has opened my mail, but never replied. So maybe now it is the time he is out of my life forever?
Hope someone can give me insight in this, because I am still confused if I did the right thing.
Thank you already very much for taking your time and effort for me.
Best wishes, Elaine
 

hilary

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Dear Elaine,

Please don?t apologise for ?bothering? people with reading requests - it?s what the Friends? Area is for, and it?s what everyone else does here! I?m sorry I haven?t read for you before - I just haven?t been able to find a spare moment. But perhaps it?s time I made one
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?

I suppose the bottom line is that no oracle can tell you if it?s the right time to get him out of your life for good. Human beings can have different opinions, but only you can decide what?s actually right for you personally. Whichever way you go, things will be painful. In a way it?s like the I Ching said in one of the three lines of that last reading:

?With one eye, can see
Limping, can still walk
Walk on the tiger?s tail, get bitten.
Misfortune.
Warrior serves a great leader.?

It?s as if you are fighting in a great cause, but handicapped from the start. You still manage to keep going - but you also get bitten. I imagine you must be feeling thoroughly bitten by now.

I?m not exactly sure what you were looking for from the oracle this time, but I guess that you would like to know whether you really have ended the relationship for good, and that you?re at least half hoping that you haven?t. So I asked the I Ching where you could go from here - what options were open to you. It answered with Hexagram 9, Small Taming, changing to #37, People in the Home.

I think that second hexagram reflects what you want from this: a stable relationship, warm and secure, as strong as your own constancy. But you bring this desire into a situation where you are really not all that strong.

?Small Taming? is a difficult one, but it?s basically like being a small farmer: someone who tries to bring all the great forces and energies of nature under control, but lacks the resources to do this really effectively and make a great success of it. There?s a strong feeling of not being quite there, not yet?

?Small taming. Success.
Dark clouds, no rain
Coming from the western outskirts.?

These clouds from the west are promising, they surely must rain eventually so things can grow. But not yet - for now, they just spread out and make everything dark. The potential isn?t quite realised, there seem to be obstacles in its way. The little farmer takes small steps, adapts to circumstances, but also concentrates on what is good and beautiful in the situation.

You can?t seize control and make things come out as you would wish - you knew that already. But the moving line - just one this time - suggests that if you so choose, you could still bring him back:

?Led on a halter, returning. Good fortune.?

Actually there are two ways you could read this - maybe you could tug the halter a little and persuade him back, maybe you?re attached as if by a halter yourself. I get the impression that you are both ?tied? and find that you are being led, and it?s hard to get free. That connection is still there, and you have the option of using it.

The ultimate question is whether he will ever decide to make a real commitment to you, and succeed in the real Revolution of going against centuries of tradition, alienating his family? not easy. While the I Ching can?t tell you for certain what anyone will decide - since they have free will - it can often show what?s most likely. I?ve been asking more questions, trying at least to find out for you what would most probably be the results. But the I Ching insistently talks about alternatives - he might rush back to you again, only to find once more that he?s started something he lacks the staying power to finish. Or he might actually find the courage in the end to persist and make the break with tradition. And while I think you could probably make him come running back, the final decision is one he must make by himself.

I?m really sorry this isn?t more definite or helpful. Please, if there?s anything else you would like to ask, just ask. Someone here will surely be able to help.

all best wishes,
Hilary

(P.S. For any I Ching readers out there, here are the additional readings:
If Elaine makes the first move, he is likely to? 31 changing to 36.
If she leaves well alone, he is likely to? 43 changing to 40.
The first and fifth lines in both readings are similar, lines 3 or 4 seem to indicate slightly different pivotal moments. If your ideas on this are different from/ clearer than mine, please say so!)
 

helena

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Dear Hilary,
Thank you very much for your big effort.
You were very helpful!!! I know at this point the situation is hopeless. I get dreams about him to which I should listen. Last night I dreamt from him again. The day before I wrote the letter I dreamt he died. At that night I let him go as funerals are mostly meant for ending a relationship. But this night he was alive and connected to me again.
Each time when I think of him to let go he comes back one way or another.
Although you suggested I might persuade him to come back. I am sorry but my pride is too huge for that. I want him to feel the pain also(if he is at the same level as I am).
I was the last one who wrote the letter and he never responded. When he comes back it must be his decision only as I am not going to beg him to do so. I want things to be natural. So that means if he comes back it will be because he also loves me. If it is not I cannot change it. Then I must go on. Although everybody in my friends area hates him and telling me that he did disgusting things to me. I still don't believe it was all fake and truly believe we belong together.
But only in a natural way and not like this. So I think I have to wait untill he makes the first step. But I am not going to wait for him forever. I will go on living my life as happy as possible and when it is Ayhan who comes back to me by his free choice then it is time for me to forgive and make a life with him.
So this means that I will not close the door for him, but also will not chase him again. I pray to God for justice and hope that it will be that he will come back to me!
Thank you very much Hilary at least you have shown me that he is also struggling as nobody believes accept for me.
My best wishes to you.
Elaine
 

hilary

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Thank you, and mine to you too
happy.gif


Looking at all the readings, I think you have found the best possible attitude. I hope it will bring you the relationship you deserve!
 

helena

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Dear I - Ching reader,
Can anybody please tell me what the I-Ching 31 changing to 36 means? Because due to some Viruswarning I had to contact Ayhan.He immediately responded.
We saw eachother one day later(this Monday).
We had a talk but he came to the point that our relationship had no perspective and that he has a good relationship with his ex now. Although he sees the same mistakes from her again.
He said again too many things that hurt me so much that I started to cry as he was going to give me a normal kiss. But he started the French kiss and I resisted. I lost all control over my emotions. And he tried to calm me down also by saying that he felt nothing for me. When he said that and I asked him" Really?" he turned his eyes from me and said yes. I saw he was lying and so I said you are lying also then he answered finally: yes I am lying.
Yesterday evening he came especially for me although he was tired. He said he needed me as he needs someone who he can trust and talk to. But he also knows that we have a carma problem. We are always ending up in making love.
Because of all this I was curious what the Hexagram 31 means and also the changing lines to 36. I hope that any reader can help me with this.
Thank you very much already for your time and effort.
Best wishes, Elaine
 
C

candid

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Hi Helena. I?ll share what I see in the reading.

#31 stands for ?influence.? It also has strong images of courtship in it.

Here, we have a picture of mutual attraction. Sound relationships are built on sound principles. The principle that this hexagram illustrates, is that of courtship. In this picture, the dominant personality places themselves below the more submissive personality. (Will leave that for you to determine.) What?s important here, is the proper balance of power and how its used.

The council is, to keep still within, while experiencing joy without. This is the difference being courtship and seduction. Keeping still within, enables you to keep the joy without in proper bounds and safeguards your well being.

The image also counsels that the mind should be kept humble and free, so that it may remain receptive to good advice.

The change lines illustrate the progression of where the influence manifests; beginning at the big toe (lowest part of you) and moving up to your higher sense of who you are. In the beginning, the big toe, it merely shows that influence is present. In the 4th place, it shows that if you aren?t keeping still within, your thoughts will go hither and thither, and the influence will still be limited, albeit scattered. Finally, we reach the back of the neck. I shall quote here: ?The back of the neck is the most rigid part of the body. When the influence shows itself there, the will remains firm and the influence doesn't lead to confusion. Hence remorse doesn't enter into consideration here. What takes place in the depths of one's being, in the unconscious mind. It's true that if we can't be influenced ourselves, we can't influence the outside world.?

Now let?s look at the new hexagram, # 36, Darkening of the Light. This is a picture of the sun sinking under the earth. What?s important to understand is that the sun never ceases to shine, its just obscured from the view of others. Let your light shine, but let in shine deep within you. During the specific time that you inquired of the oracle, your light will be wounded if you attempt to shine your light upon the other in question.

Keep in mind, change is constant, like an infinite chain, each day is new. Only the principles remain the same.

Hope this helps.
 

helena

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Dear Candid,
Yes I think I can put this in our relationship.
Because mostly I am dominant and I am putting myself below him as I do not chase him.
And yes I have to hold back on my feelings, because otherwise he will run away. Also the Hexagram #36 sounds familiar. For now I am meditating to heal him but also myself. I am trying to surround him with all my warmth and radiance. This I started four days ago. And I am worrying that if I give him too much he will hurt me again. Because I have the feeling he will never choose for me. So I am on my guard. I will give him my light but also protect myself for getting hurt again.
I think this makes sense to the situation I am in.
I know we are mutually attracted to eachother. But he cannot give in to that, because of his background.

Thank you very much Candid for your explanations!!!
Best wishes, Elaine
 

louise

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Hi Helena, I've looked at 31 changing to 36 (what Hilary threw, if you make the 1st move. Also I looked at 43 changing to 40 (what Hilary threw for if you leave well alone. I feel quite definate about the meanings here, but remember its only my interpretation, not the truth.

I feel the moving lines in 31 are telling you that your resolve is not strong enough to either finish with him or to pursue him. You said at one point you would not make the first move and contact him again - but you did - you opened things up again by ringing him about the virus.
Line 1 here shows you only moving your toes, making no real changes. Line 4 clearly indicates to me that you (unknowingly)are sending him mixed messages, or not being at all clear about what you want yourself. This line is literally telling you that if your thoughts and behaviour are scattered and fractured, that others will not listen or take notice of you They will not believe you will do what you say you are going to do. The line says 'If a man is agaitated in mind, and his thoughts go hither and thither, Only those friends On whom he fixes his conscious thoughts Will Follow'
The hexagram is 31, Influence, and I feel the lines are saying you are not influencing the situation enough to resolve it. Line 5 can also possibly indicate a lack of influence.
I think hexagram 43 is giving you exactly the same message. 43 is about being determined and resolved, making your voice heard and sticking by what you say. The moving lines again repeat the message. 1st line 'one goes and is not equal to the task', you are not determined enough and you need to be very determined to resolve the situation. Line 5 speaks of dealing with weeds, you pull them out but they keep reappearing. So if you do decide to leave him alone you have to realise it will need alot of conviction, because your feelings for him, like weeds will keep growing back. This hexagram changes to 40 hexagram of freedom and liberation. Therefore I feel if you become more determined not to see him, however tempted you feel, ultimately you will feel free of a great burden. If you contact him, he will take it to mean you want to carry on with him. When you rang about the virus, did you really HAVE TO ring him.
I think I am sounding a bit harsh and that is because I have been in similar situation myself. I know feelings can be so strong its almost impossible to resist them. You kid yourself you're ringing the guy up just to ask him something, but really its because you just want to talk to him. My advice is leave him alone and don't contact him. You decided to do that a while ago. You were determined for a little while, but rang him in the end and obviously did agree to see him. From the outside it seems to me he really is not treating you very well. If he cannot be fully committed to you he should leave you alone and stop hurting your feelings by leading you on. Obviously you are really in love him, but does he really deserve your love. You obviously have alot of love to give and you don't deserve all this heartache. It may be that if you do totally leave him alone he will come back to you properly, be fully comitted and that would be great. If he doesn't its his loss and you will be free to find someone who is truly loving back to you. You are worth a commited, loving relationship and at the moment he is not appreciating your worth. I hope I haven't offended you by telling you what to do. As I say I feel sure about it as I was in a similar situation and looking back on it I think "why did I ever waste my time on him"
 

helena

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Dear Louise,
Thank you very much for this clarification. I think you could be right. But I had to inform him about the virus because other people are having the virus also because of my pc.
But you were right that I wanted his contact. And this was the opportunity.
Another reader was saying just the same as you. I am not consequent in my actions. I know that I love him but that I don't like the way he is treating me. Because this is not my vision of having a love affair. So will this be the wrong messages I send??? Or do I misunderstand you then?
I have been trying to get loose from my feelings for him for 6 months. I was miserable every two weeks I had a migraine attack. Then he wrote me an email. When I was finally trying to move on. So then I was strong and said no to him and it was him who was calling for me. After 6 months!!!
Also I was thinking the same as you to leave him alone and make him the first step. He needs to decide what he wants.
Thank you very much for the advice Louise. I will try to not contact him again!
Best wishes, Elaine
 

helena

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Dear Louise,
Also I am sorry to hear that you have had the same. I hate people who are using others for their own sake!!!
You are right that those people don't deserve our love and devotion.
In the case of Ayhan I am not sure if he is the same as yours.( I cannot see, probably I will not!!!)
The only thing is Louise if he is capable of doing that to you, he will do that to others too.
Those people only love themselves!
Sorry for me being harsh now!!!
But if you are a good person inside you will NEVER be capable of using and lying to people(especially the ones who are in love with you)because you will know what the dammage can be.
That you just don't want to happen to people. You don't wish them pain!
I am happy you are free from him now Louise. Maybe I will follow you. Who knows???
Take care and best wishes, Elaine
 

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