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Enlightenment? Hexagram 3 line 1 to 8
- Thread starter AnitaS
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S
sooo
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When I figure out what enlightenment means, maybe I can untangle this knot. Maybe in this world the knot is what holds us together.
rosada
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My experience is that enlightenment is not a level where once you achieve it, you are permanently in that state. Well, maybe yogi masters are able to maintain but for most of us I think we have flashes of enlightenment which I describe as times when we recognize the connection between our inner state and the outer world. So perhaps hex.3.1 is telling you that as you become aware of who you are inside and how that connects you - 8. Union - with the world outside, you will recognize you can be enlightened any time you like, anytime you choose to acknowledge that connection.
An example of enlightenment might be that you are frustrated with someone giving you very confusing directions and then in a flash of insight you realize you yourself had recently given someone else very confusing directions and now you see that this person giving you the confusing directions is your own energy coming back to it's source.
So upon seeing this we vow to be a whole lot nicer to people but it is difficult at the beginning...
p.s. I have found that just saying the words "enlightenment" and "synchronicity" from time to time through out the day have caused me to see some very interesting connections in life.
An example of enlightenment might be that you are frustrated with someone giving you very confusing directions and then in a flash of insight you realize you yourself had recently given someone else very confusing directions and now you see that this person giving you the confusing directions is your own energy coming back to it's source.
So upon seeing this we vow to be a whole lot nicer to people but it is difficult at the beginning...
p.s. I have found that just saying the words "enlightenment" and "synchronicity" from time to time through out the day have caused me to see some very interesting connections in life.
S
sooo
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That's simply mindfulness. Enlightenment, per se, has this ring of completeness. Maybe such a state is possible as a state of releasing self. I can only imagine existing in such a state as being nihilistic and most impractical if one has to carry around this bag of flesh and bones while still biologically alive. It's one of those easier said than done things, imho. I can't see the virtue in that, nor do I understand that this is what the Buddha demonstrated. He renounced extreme asceticism after having practicing it for a time in his effort to attain enlightenment. He found it in the Middle Way.
I'm interested where in the Vedas that is written. According to the Vedas, enlightenment is the very nature of the individual. If this is true, than the closest the finite being can attain to the infinite is mindfulness of ones infinite state of consciousness, at which point such doorways of synchronicity and freedom from worry open. But while in this body even such a state is still samsara, that is to say temporary. One could not function as a finite living entity in such a state. Perhaps that's why it's necessary to hold together with temporal things while in a temporal body?
Tim K
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3.1 → 8 (Holding Together), Richmond:
The hinderance of hesitation. Be firm in perseverance.
To appoint princes brings advantage.
Circe, you are on the right track (to union with universe/god, union of all parts of the soul), but you must put aside all hesitation and fears and persevere on your path. Some external help will be of use, new ideas, new approaches to life.
So not very soon, but some day yes.
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Suiwo, the disciple of Hakuin, was a good teacher.
During one summer seclusion period, a pupil came to him from a southern island of Japan.
Suiwo gave him the problem: "Hear the sound of one hand."
The pupil remained three years but could not pass this test. One night the pupil came in tears to Suiwo. "I must return south in shame and embarrassment," he said, "for I cannot solve my problem."
"Wait one week more and meditate constantly," advised Suiwo. Still no enlightenment came to the pupil. "Try for another week," said Suiwo. The pupil obeyed, but in vain.
"Still another week." Yet this was of no avail. In despair the student begged to be released, but Suiwo requested another meditation of five days. They were without result. Then he said: "Meditate for three days longer, then if you fail to attain enlightenment, you had better kill yourself."
On the second day the pupil was enlightened.
The hinderance of hesitation. Be firm in perseverance.
To appoint princes brings advantage.
Circe, you are on the right track (to union with universe/god, union of all parts of the soul), but you must put aside all hesitation and fears and persevere on your path. Some external help will be of use, new ideas, new approaches to life.
So not very soon, but some day yes.
------------------------------------------------------
Suiwo, the disciple of Hakuin, was a good teacher.
During one summer seclusion period, a pupil came to him from a southern island of Japan.
Suiwo gave him the problem: "Hear the sound of one hand."
The pupil remained three years but could not pass this test. One night the pupil came in tears to Suiwo. "I must return south in shame and embarrassment," he said, "for I cannot solve my problem."
"Wait one week more and meditate constantly," advised Suiwo. Still no enlightenment came to the pupil. "Try for another week," said Suiwo. The pupil obeyed, but in vain.
"Still another week." Yet this was of no avail. In despair the student begged to be released, but Suiwo requested another meditation of five days. They were without result. Then he said: "Meditate for three days longer, then if you fail to attain enlightenment, you had better kill yourself."
On the second day the pupil was enlightened.
I think that's the right interpretation. Helpers and teachers. Not to get the answers so much as gaining multiple perspectives on things, seeing issues from several different angles at once. That's how we approach enlightenment.
Thank you Bradford, yes I do think I need a teacher again. My teacher keeps throwing me out and of course I create my world. She says she is so strict with me because my aim is high and there are faults I must correct. But it's been too long since I was allowed back in and I must find some spiritual support again. I only hope I'm looking in the right place! It's a Tibetan Buddhist centre here. Speaking of which, I did ask the Yi about this centre and received the positive hexagram 48 line 5. Well with fresh water from which we can draw freely.
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Rosada
I don't know if you have tried hypnotherapy or sound therapy. Dr. Jeffrey Thompson has some highly acclaimed music to heal mind and body and I've been listening. I think it's helping me. I am being driven in the right direction I think. I am in a hurry to transform because a respected teacher says that as one gets older, one finds it harder to change. And I am already almost 59.
I don't know if you have tried hypnotherapy or sound therapy. Dr. Jeffrey Thompson has some highly acclaimed music to heal mind and body and I've been listening. I think it's helping me. I am being driven in the right direction I think. I am in a hurry to transform because a respected teacher says that as one gets older, one finds it harder to change. And I am already almost 59.
S
sooo
Guest
Circe,
It may sound as though I don't take these subjects seriously, but nothing could be further from the truth. I've spent years chasing enlightenment. Then I remembered a childhood dream.
I grew up fishing off Sandy Hook with my father, but my dream was to fight and land a blue marlin. Years later, while serving in the Navy, I saw the mounted world record Blue Marlin (at that time), mounted on the wall of the San Juan Hilton. I stood in awe of the massive fish, that I had only dreamt of as a boy.
In the dream, I was with my father on a charter boat, and I was fighting a giant blue marlin. I looked to my father for encouragement, but he remained strangely silent. I battled the marlin for what seemed like a long time, gradually gaining, returning the heavy line onto my huge big game reel. But the closer the fish came to the boat, the lighter the marlin felt, and it became easier and easier to retrieve line, until finally the line was up to the boat's stern. I lifted the line out of the water, and there was nothing there. Even as a boy I knew how it felt to have a fish break off or just shake the hook. This wasn't like that. It just gradually became less: less dense, less weight, less gross matter, until it was nothing at all. End of dream.
Time rolled by as I sought meaning of the dream, and then in my late teens, standing in front of that massive mounted record marlin, actually only a painted casting of the original fish, as most mounts are. Still more time passed and still I pondered the meaning of the dream. I meditated daily, went to yoga retreats, listened to the masters speak, read up on related topics of enlightenment. Eventually and gradually, as with the marlin in the dream, it became clearer and lighter; less weight and mass, less gross material, less ambition to land that fish, but the mindfulness of the experience is the same as though I only dreamt it last night. This is how I've come to view enlightenment. Anything more becomes samsara.
Traditional Tibetan thangka showing the bhavacakra and realms of saṃsāra
It may sound as though I don't take these subjects seriously, but nothing could be further from the truth. I've spent years chasing enlightenment. Then I remembered a childhood dream.
I grew up fishing off Sandy Hook with my father, but my dream was to fight and land a blue marlin. Years later, while serving in the Navy, I saw the mounted world record Blue Marlin (at that time), mounted on the wall of the San Juan Hilton. I stood in awe of the massive fish, that I had only dreamt of as a boy.
In the dream, I was with my father on a charter boat, and I was fighting a giant blue marlin. I looked to my father for encouragement, but he remained strangely silent. I battled the marlin for what seemed like a long time, gradually gaining, returning the heavy line onto my huge big game reel. But the closer the fish came to the boat, the lighter the marlin felt, and it became easier and easier to retrieve line, until finally the line was up to the boat's stern. I lifted the line out of the water, and there was nothing there. Even as a boy I knew how it felt to have a fish break off or just shake the hook. This wasn't like that. It just gradually became less: less dense, less weight, less gross matter, until it was nothing at all. End of dream.
Time rolled by as I sought meaning of the dream, and then in my late teens, standing in front of that massive mounted record marlin, actually only a painted casting of the original fish, as most mounts are. Still more time passed and still I pondered the meaning of the dream. I meditated daily, went to yoga retreats, listened to the masters speak, read up on related topics of enlightenment. Eventually and gradually, as with the marlin in the dream, it became clearer and lighter; less weight and mass, less gross material, less ambition to land that fish, but the mindfulness of the experience is the same as though I only dreamt it last night. This is how I've come to view enlightenment. Anything more becomes samsara.
Traditional Tibetan thangka showing the bhavacakra and realms of saṃsāra
That is beautiful Sooo. Mindfulness yes, every moment is important. No future, no past, only now, for it creates the future. And relinquishing the attachment to the idea of enlightenment, letting go. However, in my case it's not so easy to let go of that ambition. My late father who died an untimely death, my sister who killed herself, my vanished mother who I last saw when I was 15, my ancestors depend on my enlightenment. It is my responsibility. Yet, I suppose, the more I chase it, the further it recedes.
S
sooo
Guest
:bows:
My ancestor (father) use to cheer and encourage me when he was alive when I fought and caught big fish. I couldn't understand why he was expressionless and silent in the dream. I won't lie, I felt disappointed. But now he is "there" while I'm still here. If he is conscious and aware of me, I think he watches as in the dream. The best I can do is to honor him, which is not always easy, as he was very tough on me in a physical and emotional way. Yet, my lesson is to forgive him and let go of that fish too. The same with my mother, and all those I shared this lifetime with. It's sometimes hard, but necessary. It's easier when I ask them for their forgiveness and thank them for what they've done for me.
Does this have anything to do with enlightenment? Well, it makes me lighter.
Here's to the journey.
S
sooo
Guest
I've been called various parts of a monkey's anatomy. I think that too is part of the trip for some. At 70, I'm just grateful to be.
Namaste, my sister.
Namaste, my sister.
rosada
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You know the game Wheel of Fortune where there is a word or a phrase to be deciphered and at first you only have a few letters as clues and then with each turn you have a chance to get another letter, clue, until finally someone guesses the right phrase? And then everybody laughs and they start the game over again?
I think life and enlightenment are like that. We start out clueless. That is, for all we know we are only born once and die once and when someone dies it's all over. Then we have various experiences. Like our dog dies but two weeks later a new kid comes to school and it's like we've been best friends forever, it's like our dog has somehow come back... Or someone is really horrible to you, causes you to lose your job but then...two weeks later you get a offered your dream job and you realize the guy who fired you probably did you the greatest favor ever...
With each of these experiences a new light bulb gets switched on. We start to recognize a pattern. Each new experience is a clue to the final enlightenment. When all the light bulbs are on we realize we're all here, in body and out, no one died, no one ruined our lives, it's all been one big party and the people who acted the worst loved us the most.
Anyway, there's no rush to enlightenment. You can't get "there" by willing it - it just finally kicks in like the way you suddenly see the right word on Wheel of Fortune. How did it happen? Who knows - you just see it. And it's such fun that when people finally do "get it" everyone wants to play it one more time. Only each time we make it just a little bit different... The only advice is try to play the game without getting too distraught cause if you stay calm you'll be able to spot the clues more easily and plus it's really really embarrassing at the after party when everyone is laughing hysterically about how you totally flipped out when you believed the tiger really was eating you...
I think life and enlightenment are like that. We start out clueless. That is, for all we know we are only born once and die once and when someone dies it's all over. Then we have various experiences. Like our dog dies but two weeks later a new kid comes to school and it's like we've been best friends forever, it's like our dog has somehow come back... Or someone is really horrible to you, causes you to lose your job but then...two weeks later you get a offered your dream job and you realize the guy who fired you probably did you the greatest favor ever...
With each of these experiences a new light bulb gets switched on. We start to recognize a pattern. Each new experience is a clue to the final enlightenment. When all the light bulbs are on we realize we're all here, in body and out, no one died, no one ruined our lives, it's all been one big party and the people who acted the worst loved us the most.
Anyway, there's no rush to enlightenment. You can't get "there" by willing it - it just finally kicks in like the way you suddenly see the right word on Wheel of Fortune. How did it happen? Who knows - you just see it. And it's such fun that when people finally do "get it" everyone wants to play it one more time. Only each time we make it just a little bit different... The only advice is try to play the game without getting too distraught cause if you stay calm you'll be able to spot the clues more easily and plus it's really really embarrassing at the after party when everyone is laughing hysterically about how you totally flipped out when you believed the tiger really was eating you...
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Tim K
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The story I posted was to show that 'soon' is a relative thing.
One thing is to wish and concentrate on some goal, and other is to be afraid that time is running out.
The story shows that former is the key, although it can be stimulated by latter
I don't thin that your ancestors depend on you, they are indestructible, they have their own path.
I guess you had so many relatives leave you - to learn a lesson of non-entanglement, to understand transitory nature of things. That is a very valuable lesson, it will help you to cherish anything you have right now.
Mark Twain (1835-1910):
'Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter.'
One thing is to wish and concentrate on some goal, and other is to be afraid that time is running out.
The story shows that former is the key, although it can be stimulated by latter
I don't thin that your ancestors depend on you, they are indestructible, they have their own path.
I guess you had so many relatives leave you - to learn a lesson of non-entanglement, to understand transitory nature of things. That is a very valuable lesson, it will help you to cherish anything you have right now.
Mark Twain (1835-1910):
'Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter.'
W
weaver
Guest
In Vedanta philosophy our true nature is infinite consciousness. There's a process of learning about this (through studying, reading, questioning, and discussing) and then there's a period of living while immersing yourself in the idea that you just are infinite consciousness, until this is simply how you feel. So it's totally possible to become enlightened in this life, according to Vedanta (yoga philosophy is a little different - it emphasises the process and difficulty), though it also depends on your karma. But if you are yearning to be enlightened, this is a good sign! As Rosada says there are times we seem to remember that there is nothing to worry about - then we get caught up again in things. But returning to that awareness over and over makes it easier. There's nowhere to go - you're already there.
Many thanks, Weaver for telling me about Vedanta. To be aware of oneself as infinite consciousness instead of the 'I' we create must be a blissfull state. I do yoga and pranayama regularly - have done so for the past 4-5 months and will continue. I believe pranayama helps.
Hexagram 8 is very telling. I got it twice in regards to my new guide, an American Tibetan Buddhist monk at the centre. It seemed predestined as I happened to go to the centre the first time and attend his very last lecture on the ultimate reality. He said new students attending had good karma because of the advanced subject. There was this Ask a Monk session that happened after the lecture (during which he laughed a lot, wept too and donated Rs. 50,000 that had had managed to save from his meagre 'stipend'. It was very amazing.) Well I got to ask him my burning question about my spiritual practice and got a great answer right away. And I have followed up with him after that. So you see - 3-8. I am doing the prayers he suggests. I am blessed. I have his "prayers for your enlightenment."