Experimental question

[precision grace]

So, you know how there are right ways to frame a question and the wrong ways? Yes, well, we humans like to push the boundaries, don't we (this human more than most), so, of course, I went ahead and asked a crazily framed (open) question. I was basically asking for advice on weather to choose option A or B, but in one question.

Now normally you expect to get a bit of a 'blank-look' type of answer from Yi when you ask this sort of question, and I think that is what I got (the answer was 20.3.4.5.6 > 62) but what struck me about this and what I'd like some advice on (because I am lazy and a poor student) is whether it was necessary for the reading to have this many changing lines in order to convey this type of message?

The reason I ask is because of something I learned from lavalamp a while ago - to also look for the answers Yi didn't give for clues. It had never occurred to me to do this before, but I must admit it is a tempting proposition - why did I get this particular answer and not another one (such as one containing a 4 for example which may have left me feeling chastised for asking dumb questions.)

Any thoughts?
Thank you for your time as always.
:bows:

 

[pocossin]

Should I choose option A or B?

Look at hexagrams 20 and 62. Which option is most suggested by the hexagrams? For example, if one of the options involves travel, especially by air, or ascending by elevator or stairs, then that option accords with the hexagrams and (imo) is indicated by the casting.

 

[cjgait]

The system I use reduces the texts to one or two. In the case of 20 -->62 only the 6 in the 4th of Gua 20 is read as the answer.

 

[precision grace]

thank you both. So, do I take it you both believe that the Yi actually indicated a preferred option as opposed to giving a description of the situation (i.e. someone trying to decide on an important matter, contemplating options and themselves but ultimately being counseled not to use Yi to decide such important matters - which is actually how I had read this 20> 62)

It would be interesting to hear what others think - I mean is there a some sort of trick to knowing when you are being given an actual answer as opposed to a snapshot of your situation which is what I actually think I get most of the time. A rule of thumb maybe?

if you get more than 2 changing lines for a question regarding two options - it is likely not telling you about which option to choose but something else.

if you get one or two changing lines, then this is likely to be suggesting a better option?

I know people use various methods - for example, what cjgait mentioned - why would you only read 6 in the 4th??

Thanks

 

[pocossin]

So, do I take it you both believe that the Yi actually indicated a preferred option

Speaking for myself, Yes, but that may be because of my disposition toward definiteness.

 

[Sparhawk]

I know people use various methods - for example, what cjgait mentioned - why would you only read 6 in the 4th??

It is known as the Nanjing Method. Please see this I wrote a few years ago and do the calculations.

A proposed alternative milfoil divination method of the Yijing

 

[precision grace]

Thank you pocossin .

It's important to take one's personal disposition into account, obviously, but there also ought to be some sort of rule otherwise we'd never be able to read for eachother. What I am wondering, is how do you know what is correct?

Thank you also sparhawk (or do you prefer Luis?) Sadly, my bird-sized brain is unable to integrate these types of models into its thinking. There is also a part of me that thinks that for this type of model to approach accuracy, it would have to calculate differently depending on the method used i.e. coin vs yarrow vs computer etc.

 

[Trojina]

So, you know how there are right ways to frame a question and the wrong ways? Yes, well, we humans like to push the boundaries, don't we (this human more than most), so, of course, I went ahead and asked a crazily framed (open) question. I was basically asking for advice on weather to choose option A or B, but in one question.

Now normally you expect to get a bit of a 'blank-look' type of answer from Yi when you ask this sort of question, and I think that is what I got (the answer was 20.3.4.5.6 > 62) but what struck me about this and what I'd like some advice on (because I am lazy and a poor student) is whether it was necessary for the reading to have this many changing lines in order to convey this type of message?

The reason I ask is because of something I learned from lavalamp a while ago - to also look for the answers Yi didn't give for clues. It had never occurred to me to do this before, but I must admit it is a tempting proposition - why did I get this particular answer and not another one (such as one containing a 4 for example which may have left me feeling chastised for asking dumb questions.)

Any thoughts?
Thank you for your time as always.
:bows:

Its more important for beginners to phrase questions in such a way as to know where the answer goes.....but I think in time one can ask very open questions and know if it is just a snapshot or if it shows a preference. For myself i think I can generally tell this in my own readings. This has nothing to do with rules but intuition. Looking at your reading 20>62 I'd agree its showing you weighing things up, a kind of blank look if you like but I think it shows you capable of having a very clear and careful (62) view, you can at least trust yourself with careful thought to make a choice. I sometimes ask open questions with 2 options and I can generally see if it favours one or the other or is telling me its basically up to me...a mirror.

I don't see there was a preferred option here....but if i was looking through your eyes I might since I'd know the queston.

Whatever the question it seems to advise holding back, stepping back a little and viewing with great care and precision then you make the best choice. 20,3 in particular entrusts your life into your hands IMO,

You didn't get hex 4 because you are in a position of knowing if you take a perspective, get a view. In hex 4 this isn't really possible and one must dwell in not knowing, perhaps facts or details just aren't available....or you aren't capable of seeing. Hex 20 shows you are capable of seeing and do have the relevant information to use. It doesn't recommend immediate action but more viewing time. Its a answer that says you do have a handle on this. That could be seen as a 'blank look' or a teacher saying "if you go and look at this a bit longer , without rush, a bit carefully, you don't need me your judgment is valid". Oh and you are looking at others, their impact on you and everything here and you have enough information you just need to have time to ponder it....also there may be no right or wrong choice with this answer only your choice. This is all about your choice

So I think you basically picked up the correct message from your answer and that there's no need to look for rules about lines etc


Oh I also think considering what answer you didn't get is useful in interpretation. Its important here that you didn't get hex 4, and all the other answers you didn't get.

 

[leandroscardoso]

I have some different ideas how to construct the future hexagram http://chinayinyang.wordpress.com/2012/06/04/易经yi-jing-i-ching-future-hexagram-and-upward-movement/ you can find more about the upward movement and the changing lines (that I call internal movement)
you can ask this question but the Yi jing probably will not answer A or B, he will answer how to get to A or B, the consequences of A or B, what will happen if you choose A or B, if you should consider C... don't try to use the yi jing as math, it is different language, for example trigram A and trigram A is equal as A or 2A, this don't work (see my text about seeing the hexagram as a whole and how line readings always change). A white horse is not a horse.

 

[precision grace]

many thanks trojan and leandroscardoso (I like that comment about not using Yi Jing like math..I don't think math should be used like math so that is just perfect )

I was looking at the poets Yi thread and it is sort of attempting to describe what I was asking about originally, i.e. "whether it was necessary for the reading to have this many changing lines in order to convey this type of message?"

More experienced users of Yi can look at the situation and say, ah yes, that is a 40.4.5.6 situation, for sure. (no idea why I picked that, it just came to me). I can't do that, so this is why I wondered, for the message that I got - could the same message have been conveyed with a different hexagram combination.

(thanks trojan for confirming my view)


Or, from the other point - why were there 4 changing lines?
I'm sure the message is exactly appropriate for what my question was, although I'm still unsure whether it does in fact contain a suggestion as to what option is better (I'd be inclined to take appearance of hexagram 20 as suggesting neither option should be taken because it is just such a stand back, and have a good look type of hexagram. There is no action to be taken, just contemplation. Making choice is an action. Anyhoo..)

 

[heylise]

A "40.4.5.6 situation" - I guess nobody can make much sense of that at first sight. Looking at the trigrams makes it easier. This one is a special example, because it is a total change of thunder to lake.

I look always at the two hexagrams, that is for me the overview of the situation, or the answer. The lines are the details to take care of. The advice which actions might turn out positive or negative.

In your question I would see 62 as the situation itself, as it is right now, but also as the way it can become. In a time of 62 you can summon the disaster of 62 by not reckoning with all those seemingly small but yet important things, or you can act in accord with a time like this, and use it to your advantage: 62 at its best. The first hex as the advice of what to do and how. Yi gives the advice to contemplate, and not just one thing, but in the whole region of the mind, from emotions up to pure intuition.

Some hexagrams are close to each other, just one line different, or maybe two. It is not that complicated to go from one to the other. Many lines show that more action is needed. If you want to go from 3 to 50, from first beginnings to the founded state, you need a huge effort. Same from 1 to 2: the creation of the universe or something like that. Many lines mean a big step.

 

[precision grace]

Many thanks Lise, for the comment.

In this case, it turned out that 20 with many changing lines was basically saying - hang on, you haven't seen everything you need to see yet. There were number of things that were waiting to be observed and that have had a big impact on how I view the situation and Yi, seeing the future, was telling me this.

Neat.

 

[precision grace]

And now I have actually cast this 40.4.5.6 > 59 ( about this same issue!) and the only reference to this particular combination is this thread! Permission to faint!

 

[pocossin]

I found a prior 40.4.5.6 > 59.

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=9098

It turned up when I used the search function at the bottom of the page and searched for '40 > 59'.

 

[precision grace]

I also found an excelent thread on 40 and 59 - differences and similarities. It's just that when I first entered the search, only my thread came up. Thpooky.