Favorite translations?

[Six _Dragons]

I have used the Wilhelm translation exclusively for years. I’m curious about your favourite version of the I Ching and why you find it most useful. Also your thoughts comparing it to Wilhelm would be welcome. Please lmk if this is posted already or I’m in the wrong forum. Newbie’s first post!

 

[bradford]

I’d recommend having more than one, from among: Alfred Huang, Thomas Cleary (the translation in his Buddhist I Ching), James Legge, Wu Jing-nuan, Gregory Richter (may be online), Richard John Lynn, and Jack Balkin. My Bibliography has most of what’s been in print, including mine (free online, but not a beginner’s book). If you see an annotation there that says “not recommended for serious students” it’s probably pretty bad, but I didn’t label all the bad ones. We also have site-local translations by Hilary and LiSe theat are well worth reading. http://www.hermetica.info/YixueBib.htm

 

[svenrus]

Gregory Richter is still online: http://grichter.sites.truman.edu/files/2012/01/yjnew.pdf

Alfred Huang You can take a look at (pdf) HERE and download.

 

[my_key]

Hi Six_Dragons

Wilhelm is a good piece of work and has been a starting point fro many, however there are many other translations and interpretations of the I Ching. For me the diversity of the approaches helps feed the richness of my relationship with Yi.

My favourite is the one that jumps into my hand each time as I look for an interpretation. All Bradfords recommendations are solid works and his bibliography is extensively researched. I also like to work with Karcher's interpretations because, in his words, it is "a poetic rather than a historical translation" based in Chinese myth and ritual. In many cases I'll mix and match 2 or 3 interpretations or translations to bring forward a clearer understanding for me.

My approach has been to read as many as I can over the years and stick with the ones that resonate most with me.

Good Luck

 

[svenrus]

This site I've known for a long time now:

https://www.biroco.com/yijing/reviews.htm

- and I've often used his reviews of books to see if it was worth the price, especial when expensive

 

[svenrus]

- the special thing with Bradford and Hilary's editions are that You can - so to speak - ask them "eye to eye" if something ununderstandable shows up in their books in this onlineclaritysite.
(Don't know if other translators are members here.... )

 

[Six _Dragons]

Gregory Richter is still online: http://grichter.sites.truman.edu/files/2012/01/yjnew.pdf

Alfred Huang You can take a look at (pdf) HERE and download.

Thank you

 

[Six _Dragons]

Harmen Mesker's suggestion is that you make sure whatever version you use, that it keeps the words and the imagery invoked by the words. So, for example, for 32.1

It should say - 'digging in to continue / persistence has pitfalls / not a dirctions with merit (and of course different versions will vary) ....

But you shouldn' rely on a verions that ONLY OFFERS something like: 'this line means that you shouldn't dig your heals in; that's not a good idea .' You don't want a version that does all your thinking and imagining for you! (Some versions have something like this, but as part of the commentary, or as a supplement to the actual hexgram image and text.)

Bradford Hatcher's I Ching is a main-stay for me. You can download a PDF version and/or purchase the two-volume set. I recommend doing both. Bradford's Dao De Jing by Lao Zhu is also very good, the best version I've so far come across (in my opinion).

Other versions of the Yi I consult with along with Bradford's, in the order of use:
Wilhelm's
Alfred Huang
Hilary Barrett
Lynn

There are two more, but I offer them with some caution: I think these are more 'out there', though they contain ideas that sometimes invite me to think a bit 'outside the box' which I find helpful, when applied judiciously. They are:
* Total I Ching by Stephen Karcher (as someone said, very mythic, and at times also very confusing to me)
* Nigel Richmond's I Ching - you can read about Richmond here and download his Yi here.

It'd suggest starting with 2-3 verions, and hang with them for a bit to get a sense for how they feel for you. You may not need to go further than that.

D.

Thank you very informative. I’ve got some more work to do!

 

[Six _Dragons]

Hi Six_Dragons

Wilhelm is a good piece of work and has been a starting point fro many, however there are many other translations and interpretations of the I Ching. For me the diversity of the approaches helps feed the richness of my relationship with Yi.

My favourite is the one that jumps into my hand each time as I look for an interpretation. All Bradfords recommendations are solid works and his bibliography is extensively researched. I also like to work with Karcher's interpretations because, in his words, it is "a poetic rather than a historical translation" based in Chinese myth and ritual. In many cases I'll mix and match 2 or 3 interpretations or translations to bring forward a clearer understanding for me.

My approach has been to read as many as I can over the years and stick with the ones that resonate most with me.

Good Luck

Thanks

 

[Six _Dragons]

Harmen Mesker's suggestion is that you make sure whatever version you use, that it keeps the words and the imagery invoked by the words. So, for example, for 32.1

It should say - 'digging in to continue / persistence has pitfalls / not a dirctions with merit (and of course different versions will vary) ....

But you shouldn' rely on a verions that ONLY OFFERS something like: 'this line means that you shouldn't dig your heals in; that's not a good idea .' You don't want a version that does all your thinking and imagining for you! (Some versions have something like this, but as part of the commentary, or as a supplement to the actual hexgram image and text.)

Bradford Hatcher's I Ching is a main-stay for me. You can download a PDF version and/or purchase the two-volume set. I recommend doing both. Bradford's Dao De Jing by Lao Zhu is also very good, the best version I've so far come across (in my opinion).

Other versions of the Yi I consult with along with Bradford's, in the order of use:
Wilhelm's
Alfred Huang
Hilary Barrett
Lynn

There are two more, but I offer them with some caution: I think these are more 'out there', though they contain ideas that sometimes invite me to think a bit 'outside the box' which I find helpful, when applied judiciously. They are:
* Total I Ching by Stephen Karcher (as someone said, very mythic, and at times also very confusing to me)
* Nigel Richmond's I Ching - you can read about Richmond here and download his Yi here.

It'd suggest starting with 2-3 verions, and hang with them for a bit to get a sense for how they feel for you. You may not need to go further than that.

D.

Yes I will add to my library. It has taken a very long time to use Wilhelm, I hope that my uptake is a bit quicker ... thank you

 

[svenrus]

#8

Freeda, most authors You can't ask if this and that were what they meant, to example errors caused not by them but by the publishing house. Off course, today many authors got a website with a section, errata named, where the author can make the corrections needed but that's relatively few of them who got that.
But not only questions concerning the publishing houses printing errors one sometimes would want to get clarified.
You are right in that authors being members here not necessarily would answer questions or haven't got the time for that etc. I thought that it laid implicit in my posting but it obviously didn't.

 

[Qiaozhi Yeats]

#8

Freeda, most authors You can't ask if this and that were what they meant, to example errors caused not by them but by the publishing house. Off course, today many authors got a website with a section, errata named, where the author can make the corrections needed but that's relatively few of them who got that.
But not only questions concerning the publishing houses printing errors one sometimes would want to get clarified.
You are right in that authors being members here not necessarily would answer questions or haven't got the time for that etc. I thought that it laid implicit in my posting but it obviously didn't.

For me using a translation helps to connect one with the author, if the author is saying "do this or that" then he/she is already connecting with someone else.

 

[svenrus]

#1
Six_Dragons :
".................. Please lmk if this is posted already .............."

Thou not exactly on spot:

https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/index.php?threads/bookshelf.18110/#post-185134

and a bit out of the target:

https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/fri...-on-the-i-ching-do-you-own.25548/#post-248887

 

[booboo]

Hi everyone, i would appreciate your thoughts on the insights and work of hermen messer....ty.

 

[tacrab]

Be aware that mistakes in books are everywhere, from every period! From Ming dynasty Lai Zhide, to Alfred Huang's I Ching Numerology. Typos, mistaken characters, wrong hexagrams, etc.

And a reminder, please. If there's a book you're interested in, please PURCHASE it from the publisher or author, rather than download a pirated version. That way you are helping support the author and publisher's efforts, which are substantial.

 

[charly]

Be aware that mistakes in books are everywhere, from every period! From Ming dynasty Lai Zhide, to Alfred Huang's I Ching Numerology. Typos, mistaken characters, wrong hexagrams, etc.

Hi, Barbara:
You'r right of course. To mistake is implicit in the conditions of existence of everybody. Nobody's perfect! And those who pretend to be perfect commit a great mistake. Even I believe that under conditions of perfection things should be worse.

And a reminder, please. If there's a book you're interested in, please PURCHASE it from the publisher or author, rather than download a pirated version. That way you are helping support the author and publisher's efforts, which are substantial.

Your advice is noble but I would add «if you can». Books affordability is far from being wide.

On the other hand, the world of authors and publishers is also far from being perfect. It is not certain that buying a book will end being a support for the author or publisher.

Authors and publishers are not perfect. Many authors that one appreciates attack each other unfairly. Many publishers are only guided by their financial interests. How much did Wilhelm earn from the success of the English version of his translation?

«If you can buy» it is a principle of gratitude that will always, or almost always, end in your benefit.
If you can't, don't worry, after all the book may be not so good as you imagine and/or you should manage without it.

All the best,

Charly

 

[fai_35]

The original is free and for that i'm grateful

I started off with Wilhem/Baynes translation - an accidental stumbling upon the book many decades ago.
Fast forward now, i see the translation as embedded in a colonial time.

These days i return to the original as the mainstay. Translations can be helpful but.

 

[fai_35]

Freedda,
The short answer is: the original refers to the Chinese text from which many of these translators translated from. For instance in Wilhelm/Baynes version, you can see the Chinese text right next to Baynes's English translation of Wilhelm's German translation http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?l=Yijing&no=1. Other translators such as Alfred Huang, Wu Jing Nam, Kerson Huang, Bradford Hatcher, etc., would have referred to the same Chinese text.

You can also find the original here in the Chinese Text Project site https://ctext.org/book-of-changes/qian

The original has less than 5000 Chinese characters without the puntuation marks, without the voluminous add-ons from the Confucian scholars, the commentaries and the many annotations.

I share your view that translators have their own baggage and i would include Wilhelm here, some more some less; something that all of us carry, not just the translators.

That's why i return to the original. But some translations can be helpful.