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First post: A New Beginning

angelfish

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Greetings everyone. For the past 10 years or so, most of my time, energy, and thoughts have been grounded in the material, mundane, everyday reality. I was not happy there. I was happiest while on a spiritual path with the I Ching as a guide and companion, and my inner being longed to return to The Way. Finally last week, I decided to make a new beginning. I said to the Oracle:
I feel I have strayed off the Path. Where am I now?

I received hexagram 40, Deliverance, changing to 29, Danger.

I interpret that as meaning, deliverance FROM danger (K?an, the pits?) :) Although other meanings are possible, this is one of those times, imo, the 0racle?s answer is clearly given in the names of the hexagrams. But this passage is also very relevant to the situation:

?Here the movement goes out of the sphere of danger. The obstacle has been removed, the difficulties are being resolved. Deliverance is not yet achieved; it is just in its beginning, and the hexagram represents its various stages.?

My joining this Friends forum is also a new beginning. I began using and studying The Book of Changes about 30 years ago, when my nephew, bless him, introduced me to it. The Internet and e-mail did not exist at that time; my nephew lived far away, visiting here only infrequently; and there was no one else in my circle with whom to join together for discussion and practice. The I Ching says, ?...there is always something ponderous and one-sided about the learning of the self-taught.? Not that I believe my self-learning was ponderous and one-sided of course (grin), but be that as it may, sharing I Ching experiences and insights with others of like mind would make that danger less likely.

?Deliverance. The southwest furthers.? The Southwest is where friends are.
 

martin

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One thought, dear Angelfish, you cannot possibly have strayed off your Path.
Our Path is wherever we go ...

Without your "worldly" years you wouldn't have been where you are now.

Well, that is my conviction. Please disagree ..

Welcome!

Martin
 

angelfish

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Thank you for the welcome, Martin.
You stated in your reply, "you cannot possibly have strayed off your Path. Our Path is wherever we go ...Without your "worldly" years you wouldn't have been where you are now."

Well that is certainly true, and I cannot disagree with that. But the paths we find ourselves treading upon develop out of the choices that we make along the way; I do not believe they are preordained. We reach places of transition where free choice can enter in. If we choose wisely, we make progress on The Way. Otherwise, we we may get lost or bogged down. So, although we are on A path wherever we go, that doesn't mean we are on the one we could or should be on. Don't you agree?
 

martin

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I cannot disagree with that
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and yet ... from another perspective (
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), when I look back I often see that everything that happened was exactly right.
Perhaps because I needed the experiences that I created by my "wrong" decisions.
So, in a wider sense, I have never strayed off my Path.
And it's good to see that!

Agree?

Martin
 

frandoch

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Hi there,

You can't stray from the Path. You are the Path. The Path is you. In truth, there is no Path as something separate. Whatever you do is the Path. Even your straying is the Path.

Just trust the process.

Michael F.
 

louise

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Hi angelfish, I don't think we can judge 'our progress on the Way' - we don't have the perspective or capacity to know the whole picture, the whole story. If we think we are for sure on 'the right way' we're probably just getting caught up in our egos ideas of what is 'right' and what 'should' be - and we'd probably be in for a rude awakening sometime.

I love Martin and Frandochs posts - hee hee - it means that even though I may think I'm in totally the wrong place, doing the wrong thing - I'm actually not
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. Hey does that mean I don't have to worry anymore ??

Oh no I bought in the dreaded 'ego' word ....
 

frandoch

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Hi Louise

You can't be in the wrong place. And, no - stop worrying - that's about the future (which doesn't exist)

And you should know by now <Grin> never mention the word 'ego' when I'm around. 'Tis a hobby horse of mine.

Why, flame wars have started with less.
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Michael F.
 

louise

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Frandoch, well you say I can't be in the wrong place...and yet on another thread you told me I WAS in the 'wrong place'. You made a comment to correct me - you said 'true strength is gentle'..implying that my mindset, my communication was 'wrong'. I only bring this up to show you that you contradict your own statements. You say no one, nowhere is ever in the 'wrong' place, mentally or physically... and yet you jump in to point out to me what you see as a character flaw. I am not cross by the way Frandoch, i am grinning, so don't worry....by the way isn't it the ego that gives the urge to correct others - to point out their failings ? For in saying 'true strength is gentle' you imply, do you not, that you possess this quality and I do not. I hope all is grammatically correct. Ever modest and gentle, Louise
 

lenardthefast

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Michael,

There are times when you sound EXACTLY like a British public schoolteacher. Imagine my surprise when I found out, YOU ARE! (Were?) Whatever.

My ego wants to challenge your ego to a duel. Shall we say, water pistols at 5 paces? First one to blink is a shrubbery. Or, at least a fromage.

My second awaits your answer in the drawing room.

Namaste,
Leonard
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Martin, please stay out of my character.
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martin

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Excellent idea, Leonard!
Knight Michael, please prepare you hobby horse!
And don't worry, Louise, it will be fun!

Martin

PS: Okay leonard, if you promise to stay off my tail
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lenardthefast

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Gee, Martin, what fun would that be? Oh, OK, for the moment...kinda, sorta, maybe.

Namaste,
Leonard
 

hilary

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Water pistols at dawn? Off to Open Space, the lot of you! Those velvet curtains in here take such an age to dry out!
 

hilary

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P.S. Sorry, Angelfish, not you. Welcome to the forum, and the sunny Southwest - thank you for coming! Umbrella hire rates are reasonable...

I think hexagram 40 is simply the moment when you see which path leads somewhere you want to be, and follow it. Your 'deliverance' is from the usual assortment of compulsions that draw us in directions that bear no relation to our best interests. And 29... I would concentrate on the meanings of flowing through unscathed, 'holding fast the heart', and the way dangers and commitment define character.

While I do love the idea that everything is the path, this particular reading does have the idea that some directions are worth going in, and others aren't - doesn't it?
 

martin

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I don't know Hilary, 40 is direction southwest, whatever that means (direction Open Space?!).
But the abyss of the unknown (29) looks like
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to me.

By the way, even without water pistols this room is already very wet. 40 to 29 is 3 times the trigram water!
Shall we take those curtains with us when we go to Open Space?
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Martin
 

anita

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Angelfish,

I agree with you totally that one can and does at times stray from the Path. Certainly not everything is the path -- for if we were following it, we wouldn't be so frazzled a lot of the journey. You have found deliverance - 40 by returning to the Path - the Way of the Yi and if you have sincerity in your heart - 29, you can undertake anything at all. Welcome

Best for your Quest
Anita
 

frandoch

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Hi there,

It's that pompous, egotistical, schoolmaster bidding you good morning - well it is here.

Leonard: I accept your challenge, but water pistols sound a bit dangerous to me - how about powder puffs at 50 paces ??

Martin: As a Knight of the Realm, I have a squire to prepare my hobby horse - an uncouth, smelly fellow - but he has a good heart.

Louise: What can I say ? I saw an angry little outburst from you, and I posted four little words. But what did you expect - you poked your tongue out at me. And you came back and slapped me. That's OK, too.

The Path: What I wrote comes from Taoism, which I like. It likens it to a river, infinitely wide, and fast flowing. And we're in it, and we can't get out - there is no 'out' - it's all there is - and whatever we do, it will take us. But we can do what we like in the river. We can 'go with the flow' and use our energy and skill to avoid obstacles - or we can swim against the current. We won't get anywhere, and when we're exhausted, we'll go with the flow. We can cling to a rock, and when we're tired, we'll lose our grip and go with the flow. You see, whatever you do, struggle, splash about, cling to rocks, the River doesn't care - it just flows.

Your Guardian: Members of Clarity, you are not alone. There is one amongst you, who has taken it upon herself, to protect you from that 'pompous old fart', Frandoch.(her words)

In order to protect the innocent, I cannot identify her - actually to protect me, because if I did, she would kill me, very slowly and very painfully, and obtain much pleasure whilst doing it.

She circles above me like a hawk, just waiting, in eager anticipation, for the slightest sign of arrogance, pomposity, ego, or anything else I do which 'strays from the path' that SHE has decided I should follow.

If she detects the slightest whiff, she pounces. Within seconds I will receive an email, or, if I'm online, an IM.

So, rest easy, for you have a formidable ally, and I am powerless against her. You see, she's lovely really, and we have a great deal of fun.

Michael F.
 

martin

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I understand you viewpoint, Anita.
But when I say that one cannot stray from the Path I do not mean that everything goes.
From a wider perspective everything is OK, ultimately. But from a more focused perspective we can use discernment and distinguish between wise and not so wise.
Without that focused perspective we wouldn't be able to choose and exercise our (at least potentially) free will. It has great value.

The wider view also has great value.
It shows us that we are safe, whatever happens. We don't need to worry because what could be labeled "wrong" will in the long run contribute to what is "good". Nothing is ever spoiled.
We can trust the process, as Michael said. We can trust the universe, or the Heart of the universe.

Gee, that sounds serious ..

Martin
 

hilary

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Angelfish has written to me to explain that some computer somewhere has gone mad, and now she can't post to the forum at all. Hopefully we'll manage to fix it between us (any experts out there?). Meanwhile, she would just like everyone to know that she isn't ignoring anyone and will reply as soon as she can.
 

louise

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Frandoch, am puzzled. I've never emailed you, dunno what your address is. You mean theres another female vigilante out there ? Ah well, my brain is tired, anyway your're not pompous - how dare she say it - I mean if anyones going to insult you it should be me
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The thoughts discussed here are kind of echoed in the thread No Cry Out - a brilliant dialogue between Yellowblue and Candid.
 
C

candid

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Martin, How would you feel about a slight alteration in your statement: "you cannot possibly have strayed off your Path. Our Path is wherever we go," to - our path begins where we are each moment?

Its true that we can and do screw up, and while that's not a true path, we can always return to the Way no matter where we are or how badly we've messed up. Of course, we have to deal with whatever errors we've made, and that then becomes part of the continuance of our path.

Some errors can be so grievant that recovering and returning becomes a monumental task. Not everything serves to further. Not every action is of The Way.
 

frandoch

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Louise,

Fear not, dear lady, there's room for both of you. I am well used to being insulted from every quarter - though I can't think why.
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martin

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Yes, Candid, I think that is also true ..
My feeling is that the whole truth about this matter is a mystery that is very far beyond my limited mind.
I can only have glimpses.
Those glimpses are like projections on a flat screen of an object that exists somewhere in a space of the angels may know how many dimensions.

In a sense every glimpse is wrong, although it also reveals something.
Replacing one glimpse by another is probably not very helpful. Flat is flat.
Perhaps we could gather all those flat impressions in a huge museum, like paintings.
Imagine, one day, a visitor walks in and suddenly he SEES the whole of that unfathomable x-dimensional object ...

Martin
 

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