First posting..

[sunrise65]

Hello all

After many years away from 'the book' I have returned to seek its guidance and wisdom. I was introduced to it by my Grandfather, who use to use yarrow stalks for the casting and at the time in my twenties I found the answers to my questions to be too confusing for me to understand. Now in more maturity I have come back to it with a renewed understanding due to more life experience I think. I am not saying I know any more now than I did then but I think I can decipher answers with a little more ease now and apply them to the questions asked. Having my own books and the yarrow stalks passed down from my now departed Grandfather I would like to try to put them to good use after coming across this great site.

So onto my reason for seeking guidance today, after a long time in the wilderness I have met someone at work that I like and think likes me and have asked the question 'Is there any future of me and xxxxxx' To which the answer was 16. Yu/Enthusiasm which is unchanged.

The Judgement
Enthusiasm. It furthers one to install helpers and to set armies marching.

I am really not sure what is being said here? but my initial thoughts are to find a go between.

Maybe I asked the wrong question. Anyway I look forward to any interpretations and guidance.

Regards
Tom

 

[lloyd]

Hi Tom
Hexagram 16 follows on Modesty (15) and is about having something great without bragging about it; and bragging is not really what is needed here. But 'helpers' may mean that you make it known among your and her friends that you dig X (no bragging); which would be the start of your conquering quest (army).
Within the hexagram, line 4 has a broad yin following and the hexagram suggests that you act through giving in; yet being straight in your dealings.
The image says that there is thunder coming from the earth. At this happy announcement of rain the ancient Kings prepared musical events. (I'd get my best Mother's Finest CD, play it loud and hit the dance floor ...)
Over time unchanging hexagrams turn into opposites. Domestication (9) may be the next thing to consider.

PS Meanwhile do read all the lines of 16 to get a sense of its inner dynamics.

 

[sunrise65]

Hi lloyd

Thank you for the very quick response! I have confided in a couple of friends, and am not the bragging type in fact probably completely the opposite..

'the hexagram suggests that you act through giving in;'

This is a bit unclear to me, it would imply that action/movement comes from the other party? being strait I understand.

Right I am off to read up on Domestication (9)

bfn
Tom

 

[lloyd]

Giving in to her (the situation) as a first move, allowing her to react.
And do allow for being funky before domesticating

 

[sunrise65]

Further to my previous question, I ran another asking if we were compatible and received the following answers.

Firstly
06 Sung - Conflict

with changing line 1 to

10 Lui - Worrying the Tiger

Looking at the Analysis it seems as though this maybe quite a problematic involvement, the line of change advises

'Six at the beginning means:
If one does not perpetuate the affair,
There is a little gossip.
In the end, good fortune comes'

So this seems in conflict with my first question.. any comments?

Tom.

 

[meng]

Hi Tom,

If you're not already familiar with LiSe's bountiful site: http://www.yijing.nl/i_ching/hex_1-16/hex_e_16.htm

This image of 16 is just what you'd expect thunder over earth to be: it shakes things up inside and conjures up "weaving images".

Need to be careful, though, not to take this as unconditional encouragement to forge ahead, as much of 16 is about what goes on in our head. But to give expression to it is a powerful thing.

 

[lucia]

Hi Tom

I think the link that meng posted is really useful.

16 is about enthusiasm and al the imaginings, plans and hopes that go with that. These can be what is needed to get a project off the ground or they can be illusory - just imaginings.

In my experience 16 unchanging is like hopes or ideas that don't go anywhere.

Lucia

 

[sunrise65]

Hi Meng and Lucia

Thanks for the guidance and advice.. I think looking at the signs you are probably right and that this is the imagination over the reality. Seems points to caution and conflict so may not be the path to follow. Once again thanks for the advice and link.

br
Tom
:bows:

 

[lloyd]

Hi Tom
A real girl is not an imagination. You wrote that you are the opposite of an extrovert (bragger). I feel that much of the answer to 16 may deal head-on with you being introvert. It suggests an opening through 'giving in' to what is happening. Meng mentions giving over to expression; Lucia writes that dreams are needed in order to make them come true.
Where is the "conflict"?

 

[sunrise65]

lloyd

Thank you for your reply.. I think I was reading into this via my introverted glasses.. but looking at your reply it has given me a different view and I hadn't thought about the situation as you meng and lucia describe but taken a literal meaning.. I am going to digest over the weekend and look at my path of action.

Thank you all, I feel a lot more enlightened and emboldened..

if there are developments I will let you know..

Kind regards
Tom

 

[lloyd]

Don't forget the music.

 

[ginnie]

Hi. Great that you've come back to the I Ching after so many years!

In my experience H16 indicates something that in a very general way seems like a good idea -- but it'll never happen.

And line 1 moving in H6 clearly advises you to let the matter drop.

You asked about compatibility and got hexagram 6, the hexagram of unresolvable conflict! And line 1 tells you to end it.

So, if you believe in the I Ching at all, I think you already know that it has answered your questions.

 

[sunrise65]

Hi ginnie,

thanks for the reply but this has now thrown me back into confusion following on from lloyd, Meng and lucia.. Having reread the text I could see there reading of the hexes. I am left feeling totally confused.

Br
Tom

 

[ginnie]

Hi Tom

In my experience 16 unchanging is like hopes or ideas that don't go anywhere.

Lucia

My experience is the same as Lucia's. And Meng said the same thing.

About 6.1 > 10. It refers to an argument. The sense of this line is clearly that a quarrel has broken out. Karcher writes: "Arguing is not allowed to last. This means brightening [increasing] your discrimination. . . . You will always be in conflict, discussing trivial affairs. Be done with it. Bow out gracefully and leave."

H10 refers to how we lead our lives, and the philosophy of the I Ching, as I understand it, is that it's a terrible waste of our time to get involved with people who perpetuate conflicts and quarrels.

Your question was about whether or not you and xxxxx were compatible. Yi responded by saying that you have been quarreling. When we are involved in quarrels, we cannot at the same time start on any important project or plan, and so quarreling is in many cases the opposite of compatibility.

The potential for compatibility all seems to come down to whether or not you and xxxxx can stop arguing with each other. Yi says to put the matter you're arguing about to a "great man," that is, someone whose authority you both respect and would listen to.

Many translators and commentators seem to feel as Karcher stated above, that now is the time to bow out of the relationship itself and leave. However, I would not like to say that by myself. If I were you, I'd ask another question of the Yi to clarify that point in particular.

In many places in the I Ching, the importance of how something begins is discussed. For example, the IMAGE of H6 says:

Heaven and water go their opposite ways:
The image of CONFLICT.
Thus in all his transactions the superior man
Carefully considers the beginning.

Unfortunately, the way something begins is, in all likelihood, the way it will always be, or the way it will be for a very long time, because we human beings do not change our ways so easily . . .

I hope this has been helpful . . .

 

[jesed]

Hi sunrise

16 is about excitment.

Does excitment is always good? no
Does excitment is always bad? no

The same goes to hex 16: not always is wishful thinking; and enthusiasm can be really good IF there are solid basis. Wu Wang used a lot of 16-leaderhip with his troops to overcome the Shang.

But it is true that enthusiasm CAN mislead your judgement

So, when you get hex 16 you just need to examinate if your enthusiasm is solid or wishful-thinking. In the first case, go ahead; in the second case, think twice

Best wishes

 

[jesed]

You asked about compatibility and got hexagram 6, the hexagram of unresolvable conflict!

I'm shocked by this statement. Hexagram 6 is UNRESOLVABLE conflict? Let' s be serious about the Yi, please.

 

[ginnie]

That's really an amazing icon, Jesed! Does it have a meaning in particular?

 

[jesed]

Hi Ginnie

A lot! Is an artistic form of the Medicine Wheel. Deep issues there. I guess you'll like knowing about it

Best

 

[ginnie]

I'm shocked by this statement. Hexagram 6 is UNRESOLVABLE conflict? Let' s be serious about the Yi, please.

You are right to correct me, because sometimes I use a shorthand. It would be more accurate to say that the matter under contention is such that those involved in the quarrel cannot by themselves settle it. That was what I meant by "unresolvable." I probably used the wrong word, Jesed. The matter they are arguing about is unresolvable by them.

In other words, if left to themselves, they will be arguing about the same things endlessly.

 

[jesed]

No necesarly...

If you read the Judgement, it is the consultant the one who CAN stop halfway.

If you read the lines, only one line (line 5) is a third party solving the conflict. In lines 1,2,3 and 4 the conflict is solved by the right action of the consultant (himself, herself or themselves).

If you ask about compatibility, line 1 points that the couple will be able to solve their clashes, because in the end good fortune comes.

Besy wishes

 

[lloyd]

Hi Tom
Meanwhile. An archer who does not let go of the arrow always misses.
Don't brood, take a chance.

 

[ginnie]

Earlier this year I got H16 unchanging when I saw an apartment empty downstairs in the same building and I asked Yi if my family might move downstairs. Even though I was asking this question in hopes of having a larger apartment on a lower floor, the reality was that I was not completely ready at that time to jump into action and start the process of moving. Also, I walked around inside the empty apartment and I had my doubts about whether or not I'd like living there.

IMO, if Tom were a little more ready and did not have doubts, I think he would have gotten at least one moving line.

I hope you come back to this thread and post what happens, Tom, as it adds greatly to what we know of the I Ching.

 

[jesed]

Are you saying that the way you experience one hexagram is the way everyone experiences it?

 

[meng]

Originally Posted by lucia
Hi Tom

In my experience 16 unchanging is like hopes or ideas that don't go anywhere.

Lucia

My experience is the same as Lucia's. And Meng said the same thing.

Um, not exactly what I said nor meant. I personally haven't found 16 unchanging to be any more or less illusive than 16 with lines. In fact lines 1,3 and 6 are directly related to exaggeration.

In agreement with Jesed on this one:

The same goes to hex 16: not always is wishful thinking; and enthusiasm can be really good IF there are solid basis. Wu Wang used a lot of 16-leaderhip with his troops to overcome the Shang.

But it is true that enthusiasm CAN mislead your judgement

Similarly, I've found 6 can be sometimes essential, and often avoidable. I believe 6 is an internal function, more often than not, rather than with someone else, and I believe Tom got 6 because that was reflecting his inner turmoil.

I agree overall that it's good to not lose yourself entirely in 16, but to never dance misses a big piece of living.

 

[meng]

Slightly ot, but re 16's delusional elements..

I have for lines
1: Tempest in a tea pot.
2: Ti Ming is everything.
3: Man who walks looking up trips over his own feet.

 

[sunrise65]

Wow, I wake up to many more answers! Thank you all..

Ok to clarify some points. I am not going out with this woman, nor have we argued. This may related to the fact that we share the same birth sign in Taurus, where fixednes and stubboness maybe an issue. I feel in have matured enough to overcome these issues, but maybe this is being pointed out. My honest feelings, have grown from a tiny bud some time ago where I came to realise I liked this person due to her seemingly gentle nature and being of similar character, onto a genuine feeling of wanting to be with her, I have said before that I don't think I am a bragging , egotistical sort of person and in fact my natural inclinational in to be introverted, shy and cautious. This may sometimes lead to day dreaming but in this case I have tried to be rational and grounded. I also feel that this maybe linked to inner termoil as it would be a bit step for me to ask her out on a date.

I do recognise some of what ginnie says is true, but I also agree with advice to 'try life out' I feel the the Yi is helping me to understand the path and actions better than if I stumbled down that path blindly. I will certainly come back and report how things work out, and whether or not I go down this road.

br
Tom

 

[lloyd]

I agree, Meng. Watch your steps while it takes two to tango ...
Meanwhile, I still have second thoughts about what 6/1 might mean; in answer to a second question that has all the ingredients of a repeated question.

 

[sunrise65]

lloyd, not sure what you mean here?

t.

 

[lloyd]

Question 1: 'Is there any future for me and x'
Question 2: 'Are we compatible'
Same question, different words.
I Ching tells us that when we ask the same twice the 'master' will ignore the repeated question; though in reality we will always get a hexagram as a response. To divine what that hexagram may mean is not easy, while the master has nodded off.

 

[sunrise65]

Ah yes , now I see. I thought they were two distinct questions, but now realise the answer to the second question would have been in the first.

T.