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maiajay

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Hi,
I received number 17 twice this morning when asking different questions.

One question was, "What do I need to be aware of going into my appointment today?"
And received 17.1 to 45

Later I asked a more general question about my current situation--"What needs to happen here?" I was asking with a lot of different verbs floating around in my head. Watching myself want to make or support what needs to happen but not wanting to interfere with organic flow. So I was hoping to get clarification: Clearing? completing? releasing? reorganizing? allowing? etc. and got 17.1.4 to 8

I am learning about 17, but don't really grasp it. It is about following or leading...And about being sure that what you follow is in alignment with what is "right" for you? Is 17saying that you have gotten off track? Is it saying that you are being prepared to lead something? Any or all of the above?


One other hexagram to put to the group--
Received 56.3 to 35 when asking, "What should be my priority right now?" I have a love/hate thing with 56. It feels like the Yi is saying, "You are a stranger in a strange land..." I relate to it existentially. It reminds me of some concepts highlighted to me in a training I took about working with groups-as-living-systems... Basic human questions that we all ask--the idea of "do I belong here?" "Is it safe to be myself." "Can I be who I am and still be a part of "the group." etc.
I feel simultaneously deflated and "seen" when I get 56 these days. Mostly around issues of self-reliance...Like you may be feeling alone in what you are dealing with and you kind of are...

I'm curious to hear others takes on the above--
Peace,
Maya
 

Trojina

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I think 17 indicates you are being carried along by the flow of events - no need to resist or 'lead' - just let it take you along. 17 I think is also about remaining true to your highest values, as long as you follow these then events/happenings at this times should fall in with you. Hmm are events falling in with you or you with events - i think in 17they are one and the same

Re 56 I get it often with the same kind of feelings you express. Seems kinda harsh doesn't it - going to the Yi for a bit of reassurance and being told yes you're pretty much on a lone journey with this. I just think theres times we have to do what we have to do without support, alone - sometimes its exhilerating sometimes its just hard. 56,3 I can only see as advice not to overlook or disregard/take for granted the very thing/person that is an essential support to you at this time.

Now howcome the unpleasant looking 3rd line leads to 35 I don't see - perhaps someone else has an idea about that
 

willowfox

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One question was, "What do I need to be aware of going into my appointment today?"
And received 17.1 to 45"

Hex 17.1 you need to listen to the advice of others before you make a firm decision as to what to do.

Hex 45 again you need to listen to the person in charge and give them your support, to work as a group so that no conflict should arise.
 
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bruce_g

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Maya, I agree with your observations on both 17 and 56.

Now howcome the unpleasant looking 3rd line leads to 35 I don't see - perhaps someone else has an idea about that

The Fan Yao of 56.3 is 35.3. The contrast is that, 56.3 loses the help and loyalty, while 35.3 progresses through help and loyalty. What is lost through arrogance can be gained back through humility, for example. 35, as I see it, is a task as well as a gift. It carries responsibility and the tools or means to accomplish the task.

I believe this is also partly where LiSe derives 56's "itinerant troops" from. The troop must treat their host well to win their cooperation.
 

heylise

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The name of hex.56 is a picture of men under a flag. Meanings: travel; stay away from home, troop, itinerant troops, an army division of 500 men, multitude, retainers, many, younger men of the family, arrange in a series, one after the other, set forth, extol.

LiSe
 

heylise

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Might just as well mean "you need a holiday far from your worries" for your third question, but then I have not reckoned with lines, just one of the meanings of the hexagram. So there is not always something lonely about it.

LiSe
 
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bruce_g

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If a man takes his family to vacation in a friend's house, it's best not to complain about their cooking. Also itinerant troops.
 

heylise

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56.3 when you go on that holiday, make sure you leave the house well in order, so the neighbor will not refuse to feed the cat and water the plants because of the mess. All consent (35.3)
Not really serious now, but just to show that 56 can be quite nice as well.

LiSe
 

heylise

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A bit more serious: 56 is the opposite of 60, the hexagram of measure and structure. The organization of time in seasons, weeks, day and night, of music, weights and volumes.

So 56 is a situation in which there is not a well-defined structure, and then you need to make that structure yourself. With people that means to behave with style and ethics, to reckon with their habits or not letting them walk over you. Towards yourself to have an inner structure strong enough to deal with chaos.

So it is not at all only about being a stranger in a strange place, alone. Sometimes it can be interesting or a challenge or an adventure to be in a place where things are not predefined or fixed.

LiSe
 

cesca

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Now how come the unpleasant looking 3rd line leads to 35 I don't see - perhaps someone else has an idea about that

How about: the traveller was hard-hearted and arrogant, and brought trouble on himself....but he repents, and a bad situation gets better.

And to go back to Maya's original post, this really resonates with self-reliance as an unconscious strategy: people usually get stuck in self-reliant mode when they don't expect to get what they need from others -- which often looks like arrogance from the outside. I don't know if this resonates with your experience, but if it does, the fact that this line changes to 35 may suggest that it's the expectation and the strategy of self-reliance that may shift, resulting in an easier way of relating to, and being supported by, those around you.

Hope this makes sense.
Cesca
 

heylise

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I agree with Cesca.

And 35 Is the opposite of 5, waiting (or needing), so often 35 can indicate impatience, wanting things too fast, to be too pushy.

LiSe
 
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lightofreason

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The name of hex.56 is a picture of men under a flag. Meanings: travel; stay away from home, troop, itinerant troops, an army division of 500 men, multitude, retainers, many, younger men of the family, arrange in a series, one after the other, set forth, extol.

LiSe

56 - loyalty regardless of wherever you are. The infrastructure is described by analogy to

001101 (56) (self-restraint bottom, sense of direction (ideology) top)
100001 (27)
-------- XOR
101100 (55) covers issues associated with diversity, MANY choices and in 56 we choose one of many.

56 pairs with 62 and it too covers loyalty but unconditional, 56 is conditional, particular.

62 infrastructure is covered by:

001100 (62)
100001 (27)
--------- XOR
101101 (30) - with/from guidence comes direction (an ideology)

Mountain covers issues of BONDING - sharing space with another/others. (the other bonding trigrams is lake. They both cover the sense of passion.)

FIre covers the sense of BOUNDING - distinction of acceptance issues (as water covers rejection issues). Thus the skeletal form of these bonding contexts is grounded in a realm of acceptance, guidance, being 'one of the gang' etc. as covered in such ideograms as many under the one flag.

Chris.
 
L

lightofreason

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A bit more serious: 56 is the opposite of 60,

LiSe

complement - they are the opposite sides of the same coin - name the coin.

They both cover standardisation - the many under the one flag ("standard") (56) or the one replicated many times - standardisation (60) (sameness focus in both of them).

There is a 'yin' sense with 56 - favours a more relationships focus, self-restraint (mountain in lower) whereas there is a 'yang' sense with 60 = favours a thing focus - self-reflection (lake in lower) where this is literal and metaphoric (lake = reflection, mirror, copy, replication, current passion, narcissism etc )

BOTH are grounded in a context of issues covering sharing space with another/others.
Lake is more focused on the present/future and an EXISTING passion - mountain gets into 'mental' passion more.

Chris.
 

cesca

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And 35 Is the opposite of 5, waiting (or needing), so often 35 can indicate impatience, wanting things too fast, to be too pushy.

LiSe


That is well cool -- I hadn't noticed that about 35 before, but it's so true: after all, how pushy do you have to be to mate the horses three times in a day? :rofl:
Cesca
 

Trojina

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I don't know about Maya but I found responses here really helpful, thankyou :)
 

maiajay

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I think 17 indicates you are being carried along by the flow of events - no need to resist or 'lead' - just let it take you along. 17 I think is also about remaining true to your highest values, as long as you follow these then events/happenings at this times should fall in with you. Hmm are events falling in with you or you with events - i think in 17they are one and the same

Re 56 I get it often with the same kind of feelings you express. Seems kinda harsh doesn't it - going to the Yi for a bit of reassurance and being told yes you're pretty much on a lone journey with this. I just think theres times we have to do what we have to do without support, alone - sometimes its exhilerating sometimes its just hard. 56,3 I can only see as advice not to overlook or disregard/take for granted the very thing/person that is an essential support to you at this time.

Now howcome the unpleasant looking 3rd line leads to 35 I don't see - perhaps someone else has an idea about that

Trojan,
Everything you wrote was validating for me. What you wrote about 17 feels true for my situation. I did just allow that session to flow and it went fine. I still have not the results and relief that I am hoping for but the session felt puposeful and forward moving.

Cesca--Re. 56.3 my historical characterology is more dependent than self-reliant--so perhaps the Yi is pointing out that this is a continued area to work---or at least that increased self-reliance could be a by-product of what I am going through. I have never been in a situation where I feel this frustrated about not getting help with what I am going through. I am getting a lot of support but where is the help? I have drawn enough hexagrams that allude to getting it but have not so far received any intervention that has perceivable results.

I also think that Lise's pointing out that 35 can have to do with impatience is interesting--I am willing to consider that what I want to happen is premature in some way--by some mysterious sense of timing, that I am wanting what I want too quickly. When discomfort is involved can we blame ourselves for wanting to be past it?...

Finally, I really resonated with this that Lise wrote about 56...
"Towards yourself to have an inner structure strong enough to deal with chaos. "
Not sure if this is about preparation--kind of 29-like, so we are ready for what is to come. Or if it just saying that the situation causes us to have to learn to deal with chaos but either way, the idea of strengthening is a good lens to view all of this through, I suppose.

Finally, appreciating this board...The field that is created here is one of such wisdom and compassion, intelligence and humor....
Thank you,
Maya
 

heylise

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Me: 56 is the opposite of 60
Cris: complement - they are the opposite sides of the same coin - name the coin.

You are right. Will call it complement from now on. And name coins.

Lise
 

shefa

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I really like LiSe comment about 56. That is so brilliant. You have given me an image of 56 as that place in time where there are no edges, where things are undefined, just the opposite of how I see 60 which is lots of edges and definitions. Yes, 56 doesn't have to be all bad.
 

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