...life can be translucent

Menu

general diagnosis

beithe

visitor
Joined
Dec 19, 2006
Messages
181
Reaction score
2
I asked these questions yesterday and I need some input.

What is the general diagnosis of my outer life?

60.2.4>17 nuclear hex 53 (on relating Hex right?)

What is the general diagnosis of my inner life?

21.2.5.>10 nuclear hex 22

What time in my life is this?

64.4.5>59 nuclear 27

I have buried myself in this because it seems as though even though I asked general questions about the whole I am still relating things to one or two issues.

I need someone else to look at this from a neutral standpoint.

tyia
beithe
 
Last edited:
B

bruce_g

Guest
Hi Beithe,

Looks like your outer life is being put in order, finding where each thing belongs. Part of you would like to withdraw from obligations and such, but you know that you must 'go out the door' to meet them. Your outer life is beginning to feel more guided by your inner life.

Your inner life finds you treading on familiar and unfamiliar paths, and this at times is disconcerting. Your work is paying off, however, as rewards from your work are becoming evident within you.
 

beithe

visitor
Joined
Dec 19, 2006
Messages
181
Reaction score
2
Thanks bruce_g
That is a slightly better slant than I put on things. I still feel as though the Yi is saying there is an obstacle that I am running into again and again. I don't feel as though things are as smooth as that sounds. Maybe that is why I need neutral opinions.

I wonder if there is ever a time when it is better for you to ask the question and someone else toss the coins?

:D
 
B

bruce_g

Guest
Beithe, the state of our being is often better than the state of the perception of our being.

:)
 
L

lightofreason

Guest
If we focus in general on your questions they cover (a) a focus on values and (b) on now (what is). This indicates an overall context covering security seeking. There are issues here of not trusting others and so a wall goes up (water) or one is spending a lot of energy 'umpiring'/'auditing' others.

There are 16 hexagrams covering this realm of which one or two should resonate well with your feelings:

water:

07,04,29,59,40,64,47,06

wind:
46,18,48,57,32,50,28,44

What determines which set to consider is your involvement overall, as being reactive, responding (water), or proactive, instigating (wind)
 

beithe

visitor
Joined
Dec 19, 2006
Messages
181
Reaction score
2
There are issues here of not trusting others and so a wall goes up (water) or one is spending a lot of energy 'umpiring'/'auditing' others.

No "or" about it . I have both of those in spades.

And I am definitely waterlogged. :brickwall:
 
L

lightofreason

Guest
No "or" about it . I have both of those in spades.

And I am definitely waterlogged. :brickwall:

The water focus covers issues of protection, it is 'static' and emotionally associates with rejection - be it you rejecting or being rejected.

The wind focus covers issues of anticipation of wrong doing (and so the umpire/auditor aspect) and of right doing (the cultivation nature that covers a CEO etc focus on some organisation)

You would need to go through the hexagrams given to find the one that resonates the best with you. THEN using XOR can bring out properties covering begin/end etc and so whether to

(a) let things run their course,
(b) assert one's own context or
(c) move on.
 

willowfox

Inactive
Joined
Jun 18, 2006
Messages
5,530
Reaction score
261
"What is the general diagnosis of my outer life? 60.2.4>17 nuclear hex 53 (on relating Hex right?)

Hex 60.2 when your problems have been sorted out, then don't hestitate any longer, go into action.

Hex 60.4 don't stop yourself from doing what needs to be done, otherwise you are wasting your time.

Hex 17 learning to be of service to others, pursuing the things that you do need and adapting to new ways and things in your life. This eventually leads to gradual progess in your situation.

"What is the general diagnosis of my inner life? 21.2.5.>10 nuclear hex 37."

Hex 21.2 don't worry about what others are doing around you, keep your thoughts to yourself. This is about making changing within yourself, setting things right, so be severe on yourself, you have made mistakes.

Hex 21.5 so commit yourself, be neutral, but be true and be aware.

Hex 10 treading, your inner life is very fragile at the moment and so you have to proceed with care, troubled thinking.

"What time in my life is this? 64.4.5>59 nuclear 27"

Hex 64.4 it is a time of struggle and change and a time to overcome your troubled thinking but if you can achieved this, then life will be much brighter in the future. Will power and determination are what are needed.

Hex 64.5 this line says that you can win through your problems, leaving the past and its troubles behind, an opening up of a new and better time.

Hex 59 dispersion, a dissolving of an obstacle, (is the obstacle your thinking, you), so that you can once again unite with others in all ways, then progress can again be made.
 

beithe

visitor
Joined
Dec 19, 2006
Messages
181
Reaction score
2
Hex 21.2 don't worry about what others are doing around you, keep your thoughts to yourself. This is about making changing within yourself, setting things right, so be severe on yourself, you have made mistakes.

And this is why I framed the questions that I did. It seems as though even when I ask what I think is a generic question what I see in the answer is everybody else or what I think about them.

Thanks WF
:)
 

beithe

visitor
Joined
Dec 19, 2006
Messages
181
Reaction score
2
This indicates an overall context covering security seeking. There are issues here of not trusting others and so a wall goes up (water) or one is spending a lot of energy 'umpiring'/'auditing' others.

In my case it is auditing a situation but also auditing the moves of some of the people. It seems to be eating up my whole life...at least the waking portion of it. And there are elements here that I do not trust. Conditioning. You learn when to duck even if you may not have to everything becomes a knee jerk reaction.

The water focus covers issues of protection, it is 'static' and emotionally associates with rejection - be it you rejecting or being rejected.

Again.Conditioning. Or expecting the worst something that I have become adept in thus drawing it to me.

(a) let things run their course,

One step at a time. Difficult when they aren't your own personal steps.

Hex 21.5 so commit yourself, be neutral, but be true and be aware.

Hex 10 treading, your inner life is very fragile at the moment and so you have to proceed with care, troubled thinking.

Yes and yes. :)
 
Last edited:
L

lightofreason

Guest
Hex 21.5 so commit yourself, be neutral, but be true and be aware.

huh?

Commit yourself = take a side
be neutral = dont take a side or if you do take a side then do nothing!

hmm... a touch too symetric in logic! (prose using the commit/neutrality dichotomy allows for interchanging of the elements!)

IC+ 21.5

Line 5
"Making judgement requires good knowledge of the facts and being wary of possible bias. The middle path is followed."

The focus in 21 overall is on issues of deviating. (see the current memorising IC thread covering 21) - the line position (5) is controlled by hex 8 and its focus on a central passive figure that attracts - i.e. the king/court. IN this position one needs to listen to all sides prior to making a judgement less that judgement 'deviates' from 'acceptable' range of options - IOW the 'good' king stays on a middle path since it allows for dynamics in dealing with situations - too left or too right, too ideal, and issues develop where once a decision is made it is hard to replace!

The particular 'change' of 21.5 is "with/from problem solving comes disentangling (25)." - an assessment of a situation is made free of consideration of consequence (and so no consideration of any personal benefits or not, the decision is thus 'true')

beithe said:
Hex 10 treading, your inner life is very fragile at the moment and so you have to proceed with care, troubled thinking.

hexagram 21 has its roots in problem solving. Hexagram 10 in sensation seeking. They do not relate to the issues you have presented other than if you have used 'random' or 'miraculous' methods whereupon they are part of the spectrum of hexagrams applicable to the situation but NOT best fits where the best fit will be in the set of 16 hexagrams covering security seeking, or with your focus on auditing then on the 8 hexagrams of wind.

46,18 48,57 32,50 28,44

There is the suggestion from your prose that 18 might fit in that the lack of trust of others focuses on correcting 'corruptions', where they stem from ignorance/neglect /lazyness (moral corruption) or criminal activity (outright corruption)

18 has its infrastructure described by 11 - it is vaguely 'about' use of mediation to balance/harmonise/re-harmonise (and that can be tiring)

18 begins with, keeps coming back to, a state described by a focus on generic qualities of 26 and so holding firm to a position/perspective (26 covers holding firm to some traditional perspective but not letting it take over, just set down quality control)

18 = with cultivation comes discernment
26 = with perseverence comes discernment

What feeds 18, its source of nourishment is described by analogy to 20 where we find:

(a) being an example (motivation, look up to etc)
(b) being made an example of (public humiliation/punishment)

etc etc etc (there are 64 aspects to any hexagram, all derived from XOR-ing - where we can get the IC to describe itself in general and then fill-in the local context colours)

Chris.
 
Last edited:

beithe

visitor
Joined
Dec 19, 2006
Messages
181
Reaction score
2
Hex 21.5 so commit yourself, be neutral, but be true and be aware.

lightofreason Quote:
Originally Posted by beithe
Hex 21.5 so commit yourself, be neutral, but be true and be aware.

huh?

Commit yourself = take a side
be neutral = dont take a side or if you do take a side then do nothing!


Well, actually I got that, must be a girl thing, if you are committed to a situation or a path I do believe that you can make that decision and still sit down at the back of the bus. Usually this applies only to those situations that are more in the control of others than yourself. This is more about awaiting outcomes. Maybe it is not so much being neutral but is more like being mountain/keeping still. That is a trigram that is very frequent in my divination right now, as is water, and thunder.

I am maelstrom hear me roar. :D

Even though I asked a general question of the Yi I still get leakage from one or two big issues that effect me, however, the only control I have over them is to walk away. I am not ready to do that yet and may never be. I think WFs comment was based on my leakage because in that scenario it makes sense.

It does not make sense when I think of other issues such as making aliving. You either do or you don't and that is one thing I am having a difficult time with right now.

Welcome...you are now beyond the Looking Glass :D
 
B

bruce_g

Guest
It's a nice glass to look through, Beithe. Sorry you're struggling with this thing, whatever it is (I can't see that far through the looking glass..), but the way you're processing the readings is admirable.

I still see what I said early in the thread. I also agree that deciding from a central position (21.5) is what moves this thing on. I think that's what WF meant by "commit yourself, be neutral, but be true and be aware." 21 requires, or at least suggests, a firm decision.
 
L

lightofreason

Guest
Well, actually I got that, must be a girl thing,

LOL! - it IS ;-) more so symmetric logic (thinking) is every-day form of thinking and covers our focus on converting difference to sameness through the use of metaphor and so the symmetric. It is strongly associated with emotion and the use of instincts/habits and as such can lead to errors in logic where it marginalises the asymmetric and so lacks precision (it is the logic of dreams as it is of approximations. It is a logic that allows for 'synchronicities' in that it cannot deal with absolute differences - it favours the equivalance operator (EQV and the symmetric difference operator XOR))

IT covers such assertions as "Jack loves Jill" where the converse is considered to be true. In asymmetric logic (and so more precise) the converse is NOT necessarily true.

If one is exposed to too much symmetric thinking then one's logic in thinking can be distorted and lack precision.

(1) As primates we work off instincts/habits. Instincts/habits work off sameness.
(2) quick assessments of a situation are better done using metaphor and IT dependens on sameness/symmetry to operate.
(3) In GENERAL the sameness focus works fine for the everyday but can also lead to false assumptions and 'vague', waving of hands, forms of communication.
(4) the more precise one gets so the more semantics gets concentrated into a form we relabel as syntax - this reflects our neurology's focus on sequencing (reason, ordinality, emotion concentrated into 'true/false') that complements the more basic focus on magnitudes (emotional expressions, sameness, cardinality)
(5) The combination of the symmetric and asymmetric brings out hierarchy.
(6) ANY moment has the WHOLE of the IC applicable and so all hexagrams are valid but sorted best-fit to worst-fit. Thus we could go through all of the hexagrams and identify aspects of your immediate state reflected in each of them.

Given the above, the IC comes in three main flavours, symmetric interpretations (magnitudes), asymmetric interpretations (sequencing), and anti-symmetric interpretations (hierarchy) - these reflect the way our minds work but most see the IC in a confused format (like WF) since the traditional material comes from that realm of the 'vague', the symmetric, that is fine when interpreted IN GENERAL, as UNIVERSALS, but are issues when we try to fit them into local context without customisation.

Chris.
 

beithe

visitor
Joined
Dec 19, 2006
Messages
181
Reaction score
2
Lightofreason said...
3) In GENERAL the sameness focus works fine for the everyday but can also lead to false assumptions and 'vague', waving of hands, forms of communication

:D yes beithe is guilty of vague waving of hands.

(6) ANY moment has the WHOLE of the IC applicable and so all hexagrams are valid but sorted best-fit to worst-fit. Thus we could go through all of the hexagrams and identify aspects of your immediate state reflected in each of them.

I have found this to be true when I am viewing the Memorizing thread. Of course I have gotten quite a few of those Hexagrams too. It is the same with tarot cards, or probably any sort of divination, that somehow you can generally apply much of it to personal experience. However, I have while reading through my translation come across many that make me wonder what issue or question you would have to have/ask in order for you to get that particular Hex. Some do not resonate with me on any level. So maybe it is...
six of one,half dozen of another.

If one is exposed to too much symmetric thinking then one's logic in thinking can be distorted and lack precision.

Wimmin are dangerous. Run. We are Pandemic. Hide. Avoid exposure at all costs.
IOW if I were not guilty of too much symmetrical thought then I would be a guy a.k.a a "broken" woman. :rofl:

Ah well it is a dirty job but someone has to do it. ;)
 

beithe

visitor
Joined
Dec 19, 2006
Messages
181
Reaction score
2
bruce_g said

I still see what I said early in the thread. I also agree that deciding from a central position (21.5) is what moves this thing on. I think that's what WF meant by "commit yourself, be neutral, but be true and be aware." 21 requires, or at least suggests, a firm decision.

That was how I understood WF too. Sometimes you make a decision to do something in a certain way and because you also have to depend on the reaction/action of others you then have to sit down and maintain a "neutral" position.

In the end it either works for you or it doesn't...and then your at the fork in the road...
and I tend toward the road less traveled by...the road not taken. :D
 
Last edited:
L

lightofreason

Guest
Wimmin are dangerous. Run. We are Pandemic. Hide. Avoid exposure at all costs.
IOW if I were not guilty of too much symmetrical thought then I would be a guy a.k.a a "broken" woman. :rofl:

Ah well it is a dirty job but someone has to do it. ;)

LOL! - symmetric thinking is not limited to females. It IS associated with dream states and depression (and considering females outdo males 3-1 in depression the association is easy). OTOH symmetric thinking is also associated with schizophrenia and males outdo females 3-1 on that! (this 'side' favours the use of metonymy - part for whole mappings and so 'specialist' metaphorcation and so can create paradox; we extract a pattern, and so part, from a whole and then interpret as if the whole - see sensory paradox examples in http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/paradox.html)


Lack of exposure to differences, and so education, can keep the brain in symmetry mode and lead to stereotyping and that covers either gender.
 

beithe

visitor
Joined
Dec 19, 2006
Messages
181
Reaction score
2
So.......

LOL! - symmetric thinking is not limited to females. It IS associated with dream states and depression (and considering females outdo males 3-1 in depression the association is easy). OTOH symmetric thinking is also associated with schizophrenia and males outdo females 3-1 on that! (this 'side' favours the use of metonymy - part for whole mappings and so 'specialist' metaphorcation and so can create paradox; we extract a pattern, and so part, from a whole and then interpret as if the whole - see sensory paradox examples in http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/paradox.html)


Lack of exposure to differences, and so education, can keep the brain in symmetry mode and lead to stereotyping and that covers either gender.

as human beings we truely live in the Theatre of the Absurd. We spend a good part of our lives asking "What am I ?" or even "Am I ?" and we attempt to find the truth of whether experience comprises reality or the existence of reality can even be experienced. We also debate whether or not science and divination or any sort of mysticism are entirely opposite or whether they are parts of the whole. I tend to think the latter...they are approaching each other from opposite ends of the spectrum,however, they began at the same point.

I checked your link ...
three faces (of Eve?)
five legs even though there are also only four if you only "see" the connection with the body
and maybe 35 black dots if I could only "see" them all at once. LOL

:rofl:
 
L

lightofreason

Guest
.... We also debate whether or not science and divination or any sort of mysticism are entirely opposite or whether they are parts of the whole. I tend to think the latter...they are approaching each other from opposite ends of the spectrum,however, they began at the same point.

As covered in IDM (and so IC+). ANY perspective upon reality is metaphor and so interchangable with any other. HOWEVER, the lack in precision in the symmetric means it can fail to differentiate the real from the imagined where the asymmetic/anti-symmetric foci resolve the precision issues. In this resolution we find that, for example, the questions method used on the IC is more consistant, more regular in eliciting the 'best fit' than the traditional, 'extreme symmetric perspectives' methods where such methods include entanglement of reality with spirituality - something not necessary to get the IC to work, and something rooted in ancient perspectives of reality based on anthropomorphism and a strong bias to symmetry.

From working with the asymmetric and anti-symmetric we acquire detailed understanding of the method used to derive the IC - self-referencing - and so bring out the use of XOR and EQV in deriving high detail on hexagrams in that these operators allow us to ask the IC to describe itself - something not covered, or considered possible, in the ''traditional' material ;-)

We can describe reality using any specialist perspective since all such perspectives have the ONE source (as covered in IDM, the intro of which is:

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/introIDM.html )

Issues come in differentiating skills and difference/sameness dynamics where we have to 'transcend' our primate instincts to favouring sameness to allow for the mapping of differences and so identify the unique. As such, the realm of the symmetric covers the GENERAL but difference covers the PARTICULAR.

The I Ching covers the self-referencing of yin/yang and maps GENERAL categories of SAMENESS that THEN require customisation to fit some unique context - to try and impose a universal on a local context reflects the 'need' to symmetrise the context, to make it 'same' and so try and ignore/avoid the difference! (this attempt to universalise a local context as if a universal is, in most cases, an act linked to neurosis - see such texts as:

Horney. K., "The neurotic personality in our time" Norton )

The IC idea is where we map out the hexagrams as universals, as vague forms, colourless forms, and then let local context fill in details. The question methodology allows for such, the 'traditional' does not in that it is more interpreted as asserting the universal as if local when it is not necessarily so (and the use of 'random' or 'miraculois' methods dont help) - the IC as such is a GUIDE and no more where the guidance is to the 'sameness' aspects of a situation where that identification allows for consciousness to identify local differences and possible consequences of such.

.... but then Mathematics is a guide, as is Quantum mechanics as is Astrology - but all of these guides, as metaphors, have resolution powers that can differentiate real from imagined with some more precise (e.g. Mathematics) than others.

As such it is possible to find the 'meaning of life' in quantum mechanics as it is in Astrology since these are metaphors for what the brain deals with, patterns mapping difference/sameness. However, the 'hard sciences' include a lot of focus on asymmetric/anti-symmetric material and strong differentiations of imagined/real states more common with Astrology/Tarot in that with Mathematics/Chemistry/Biology precision is vital whereas in Astrology/Tarot 'waving of hands' is acceptable - and for everyday, social, emotional interactions thats fine ;-) - issues come when we try to use these universals to be precise in some local context where clear, precise, differentiations are needed to allow us to make the best choice to manage that context.

Chris.
 

Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom

Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).

Top