GFG Hex. 64.6

[svenrus]

When asking the I Ching about this, an Idea I got last year, hex. 64.6 came up: The last line in the last hexagram. (If it will work in praxis ? Haven't tried)

 

[Freedda]

.... When asking the I Ching about this, an Idea I got last year, hex. 64.6 came up: The last line in the last hexagram. (If it will work in praxis ? Haven't tried)

...and about 64.6 the Yi says:

Being confident on top of drinking wine
Not wrong
But to soak one’s own head,
Even with truth, is truly to lose it​

... and interestingly, 64.6 doesn't 'bring us back to doe' (a.k.a hex. 1)' ...

... But to build this, to try it out would move you from non-praxis to praxis (doing, action, from prassein to do, practice), maybe like the movement of the upper trigrams: going from a place of clarity (but only) in one's mind and imagination*, to a new (maybe sudden? maybe shocking?) place where the thing works or it doesn't.

* and 64.6 invites us to ask the legitamate question, how much wine (or if you were here in Washington state, how much THC) is involved here?

D.

 

[svenrus]

#2, *) None. Actually the Idea came in another form back in the nineteeneighties and were laid aside for the reason: If this really will work it would had been discovered thousands of years ago.
No, I posted this because I found it odd that the last line in the last hexagram showed up ie. after that the king Wen sequence will start all over again compared to the Idea: will this wheel start or rather continue all over again and keep turn round all over again ? Beside that I've never had hex. 64.6 ever before.

 

[Freedda]

.... that the king Wen sequence will start all over again compared to the Idea: will this wheel start or rather continue all over again and keep turn round all over again ?

It's all pure speculation I suppose, and maybe a bit (but not too much) wine or smoke might help us to get more into it, I don't know.

I think, however, that 64.6 doesn't bring us back to the beginning of the Yi, Hex. 1 - except perhaps in an imagined, non-praxis (not practical?) sort of way; instead it drops us into Hex. 40 - where we have Thunder above and rain (Water/Abyss) below ...

... and so instead of coming back to some imagined 'beginning', we're left with 'release' ... maybe that in facing our fears - real and imagined - and what makes us feel exposed, we can gain a new, fresh outlook on our lives.

Best, D

 

[svenrus]

Yes, I'm aware that hex. 64.6 changes to hex. 40, but I see it, as You are right in mentioning, in a speculative way thus: starting on the first line of the first hexagram and continue all the way until we reach the very last hexagram and it's last line - and this has not much to do with the traditional logic concerning how to see the king Wen sequence yet it is used thou in the way we shed light on a reading when looking at the Sequence of the hexagram which is from number to number ie the Sequence when receiving hex. 64 are that it is the next to hex. 63 (Wilhelm/Baynes I Ching use it and many other translator do).
But speculative seen in relation to the normal use of the I: Yes.

Concerning wine and such it is mentioned, I'm aware (64.6) and the risk to get the head wet... But I've been turning the whole thing around in my head since last year before posting it here. It's not (!) an impulsive decision caused by neither wine, tobacco or for that matter LSD to run the line.

 

[Freedda]

... yet it is used ... in the way we shed light on a reading when looking at the Sequence (Wilhelm/Baynes I Ching use it and many other translator do).

I'm curious, if you can point me to more info about the sequence and how it''s used, and in particular about '1 following 64', or '64 returning to 1'?

I looked in Wilhelm and the only thing I found about 64 and the sequence is that it follow 63. In fact, he doesn't start to mention a sequence until Hex. 5 (which follows 4). There is no sequence that I found related to Hex, 1,2, 3, and 4.

Also to note, I was just pursuing another avenue of thinking here. If you find some meaning in the idea of 64 returning to 1, that's fine - it just doesn't seem to to me to be part of the original thinking associated with the Zhouyi, and I'm not really 'feeling it,' this '64-goes-back-to-1' idea.

It would be an interesting 'study' however to see where all the moving sixth lines take us - in terms of which zhi qua (resulting hexgram) they move towards, and what meanings there might be found with these (e.g. 15.6 moves to > 52; 41.6 moves to > 19, and so forth).

D

 

[Freedda]

PS - I did a bit of digging and found my Wing 8 -- Xugua zhuan - the Sequence of the Hexagrams

https://ctext.org/book-of-changes/xu-gua

About Hex. 1 / 2 it says: When there were heaven and earth, then afterwards all things were produced. What fills up (the space) between heaven and earth are (those) all things. Hence (Qian and Kun) are followed by Zhun.

And abouit Hex. 63/64 it says: But the succession of events cannot come to an end, and therefore Ji Ji is succeeded by Wei Ji, with which (the hexagrams) come to a close. ​

So it seems that even in the minds of the ancient commentators and writers of the Ten Wings, 64 didn't "lead us back to doe" (1).

But again, we're all free to explore this in different ways, right?

 

[svenrus]

Hello again Freedda and Good Morning, Yes - You are absolutely right.

If I firstly had looked this hexagram, hex. 64, up in the Mawangdui manuscript, translated by E.L. Shaughnessy I wouldn't propably been wondering as it here got the number 54 in the sequence.

 

[Freedda]

No worries. I sometimes look to see what meaning I can find in the pairs (here it would be 63/64), but less so to with the sequence - though it certainly is something some people feel is useful.

And it seems the Wings commentary on the sequence only goes up to 64, but doesn't bring us back around to 1 - though I think people will sometimes do that, as it makes philosophical sense in some ways that the end would come back around to the beginning.

But waxing a bit more philosophical/spiritual on this: it makes sense that the end comes back around to the beginning - like a record spinning on a turntable. But just like this record, when it comes back around, it brings us to a different part of the disc, to a different place in the song, or tune, or story. And looking at this turning in a bigger way, in the time that it's taken the needle to come back around, the day has moved a bit, the season has changed a wee bit, and we're certainly to be at least a few thousand miles distant than where we were in the univers just a few seconds ago!

So, it becomes a bit of a iffy construct if there's really even a begining to come back to? And besides all that .... 64.6 brings us to 40, right?

Best, D

 

[svenrus]

Oh, Yea - 64.6 brings us to 40. That's right.