going abroad 24.1,3<15

[dragona]

:bows: Situation is really bad, so I finally asked about something that has been on my mind for a long time: how about me looking for a job abroad? Hex 24. 1, 3 into 15.
Breaking piont/return, modesty/discipline...the element of time is strongly present in hex 24, so it is an importand decision that is not answered clear/simple enough for my understanding of I-Ching...please advise, thank you

 

[icastes]

It looks rather good to me to go and find a job elsewhere. 24, even with moving lines 1,3, is propitious for moving and for establishing a new job abroad, as does 15. The moving lines simply say that it is not all that easy and not everything will be perfect. But, then, moving abroad for a new job is a huge adventure. Go for it.

 

[pocossin]

Should I look for a job abroad?
24.1.3 > 15

I think you should. A cosmic return is a time of renewal. The judgment is auspicious: 'It furthers one to have somewhere to go'. You are at a Turning Point. The situation where you are is bad, and opportunities may open elsewhere.

() Nine at the beginning means:
Return from a short distance.
No need for remorse.
Great good fortune.

Opportunity begins at home. Don't act without being prepared. Do you have friends who have successfully move abroad and who could help you? Can you apply for a job abroad now, so that you will have work as soon as you get there?

Six in the third place means:
Repeated return. Danger. No blame.

The danger in making a new start with limited resources is that intentions are easily deflected by contingencies -- like stumbling at the starting gate. Young hopes like young life is easily defeated. There are many liabilities to relocation -- cost, work permit, culture shock, homesickness -- but many do successfully make the transition. The line says 'No blame' for trying, and I think you would blame yourself if you did not act and would continue to wonder if things couldn't be better elsewhere.

Further, hexagram 15 (in my personal interpretation) is a cock, the bird of beginnings. A move should be especially beneficial if you have leadership skills (or enjoy being in front) that are unused where you are. Unless you have a skill that is in demand, relocation is not easy. From the posts I have seen at Clarity, few who have taken a job abroad are perfectly happy with their relocation, and many are now back home.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[Trojina]

:bows: Situation is really bad, so I finally asked about something that has been on my mind for a long time: how about me looking for a job abroad? Hex 24. 1, 3 into 15.
Breaking piont/return, modesty/discipline...the element of time is strongly present in hex 24, so it is an importand decision that is not answered clear/simple enough for my understanding of I-Ching...please advise, thank you

There is no yes or no here..infact its hard to answer this without being in your shoes, knowing your situation because 24.1, meaning a return from a short detour away from your path that you easily return to, could mean you give up the idea of working abroad pretty quickly...it was never really an option just an idea.....or it could mean the detour away from your path was the thought of staying where you are in the country you are in. So how you interpret 24.1 is entirely dependent on how you perceive your situation.

24.3 shows you taking one step forward and 2 steps back and not being very decisive, or making progress in fits and starts.

Hex 15 probably indicates you really need to be realistic and practical about this. Is this a whim ? If it is 24.1 says you will soon drop it as the troubles you now experience seem less overwhelming as time passes and so you return to things as they usually are


So how you answer this question is pretty much down to how you view this idea, as serious or not ? Maybe its an idea you keep revisiting ?


In anycase I can't see it as a clear 'yes go abroad'...I think this is an answer you can't hand over to others, I think this is one you have to really think over for yourself since how you take it all depends on perspective. There is no objective 'meaning' here

 

[dragona]

Thank you all for looking into this reading for me.

The situation is such that I know i can find fulfilment doing only something creative and here, at present time, there are no jobs of any kind and future does not look promising either. I always wanted to go abroad, at least try. Now it seams a necessity.
I have tried to make some contacts, friends, but not any concrete help is to be born out of it, it seams. One needs to plan ahead and things here need to be fixed-all lacking one thing I cannot get-a paycheck.
So this may clear things a bit for you and also the fact that my initial plan was to leave in order to do some kind of specialisation that would allow me to find valid position in my professsion here.

And yes, it does not seam that incouraging, those lines speak of needed determenance, but I lack real firm ground to bulid on.

I just asked something brave Which country should be the best choice for my professional benefit? Hex 63. Thought you experianced divinators may find this one a challenge
I have no idea, other than - you will know when the time is right, or go where you wanted to in the 1st place....or you are in it now? Huh! What do you think?

 

[jfas]

I agree with trojan. I don't see Hex. 24 as going somewhere, but as abiding calmly, trusting in and seeing a return of something.

The first moving line has the most significance: () Nine at the beginning means: Return from a short distance. No need for remorse. Great good fortune.

It's telling you to relax, you will find relief in staying and seeing a return to normal of your affairs.

Hex. 15 reinforces this with the idea of stability through modesty - in plans, actions and emotions.

 

[dragona]

:bows:Well, this all is confusing me now...I am seriously considering this move, but not without a plan...and not very incouraged now...
I think one should be concentrated on the question-if nothing more, Turning Point is not an passive hexagram. I do agree with Pocossin in general, though about hex 15 , don`t understand how modesty an disciplined perseverance can be depicted as cock`s qualities (seen hex 15 depicted as a rat in one book)? And on leadership skills-my horoscope may confirm it, but I am a team player...if left alone, I tend to wonder off..in my mind

Nine at the beginning means:
Return from a short distance.
No need for remorse.
Great good fortune.
Could these lines speak of an shorter trip abroad? Repeated?
Six in the third place means:
Repeated return. Danger. No blame.
This one seams as having to make an deffinitive decision, and being reluctant to do so.

"Hex. 15 reinforces this with the idea of stability through modesty - in plans, actions and emotions."
When on a new teritory,I this is always a good course of action...but these castles in the air need to get grounds in reality. and needed to be done yesterday

 

[pocossin]

about hex 15 , don`t understand how modesty and disciplined perseverance can be depicted as cock`s qualities

Visually, hexagram 15 is shaped like H. This abstract shape was seen by King Wen as a cock. Blofeld translated 15.2 as "Modestly crows the cock" but -- based on 25 years of raising oriental poultry -- it should be calls instead of 'crows'. In western lore (like Chaucer's ) the cock is oversexed and bragging. In reality the cock spends much of his time bringing home the bacon -- digging up food and calling hen and chicks to come and get it.

The underlying Chinese for 15.2 is 鳴謙 .

鳴 is composed of 口 kou3 mouth and 鳥 niao3 dau3 bird and means "said of birds - to sing / to chirp / to warble /said of cocks - to crow / the notes of birds / to make sounds / to sound."

The character misleadingly translated as 'modesty' 謙 would be better translated as 'humble', 'retiring' , or 'self-effacing'. The difference is between putting oneself forward and putting oneself forward for others.

A reminiscence: Ten year ago Hilary questioned the cock in hexagram 15.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Midaughter/message/1129

I doubt I am any more persuasive now

 

[arabella]

:bows:Well, this all is confusing me now...I am seriously considering this move, but not without a plan...and not very incouraged now...
I think one should be concentrated on the question-if nothing more, Turning Point is not an passive hexagram. I do agree with Pocossin in general, though about hex 15 , don`t understand how modesty an disciplined perseverance can be depicted as cock`s qualities (seen hex 15 depicted as a rat in one book)? And on leadership skills-my horoscope may confirm it, but I am a team player...if left alone, I tend to wonder off..in my mind

Nine at the beginning means:
Return from a short distance.
No need for remorse.
Great good fortune.
Could these lines speak of an shorter trip abroad? Repeated?
Six in the third place means:
Repeated return. Danger. No blame.
This one seams as having to make an deffinitive decision, and being reluctant to do so.

"Hex. 15 reinforces this with the idea of stability through modesty - in plans, actions and emotions."
When on a new teritory,I this is always a good course of action...but these castles in the air need to get grounds in reality. and needed to be done yesterday

Based on experience of many years living abroad and a full range of what can happen, I would interpret these lines to mean that you should test out your plan in advance. Imagine and develop it fully taking into account the various concerns you know you might have. Prepare financially as best you can. Be realistic and give yourself a reasonable time to realise success while you are abroad. Set a time and a goal when, if it's not to your liking you can go home. Understand that in all likelihood you are going to suffer through culture shock -- even if you go to a place that speaks your language there will be huge change to take in. If you prepare with a plan, an attitude, a budget and emotional balast in advance, then I think you are in for a 15 experience -- almost no matter what happens. I would always advise people -- if they truly can do it -- to try living abroad, especially if they see that as a mind-expanding experience. You will have ups and downs, no matter what. But you'd have those at home and never have memories of life in another place. I wish you the very best.

 

[dragona]

Pocossin: :bows::bows::bows:

Indeed, Arabella...the fear kept me from leaving before...but I would not do it on a whim...and if I need to do all of that preparing alone...seams too hard for an unknown reward from this point of a wiew...and would take so much time....one needs to make money in order to spend (save) it...looks like an closed circle for me.

Thank you both, in any case

 

[arabella]

If you would be going for employment then you could benefit by having an employer who puts a bit of a safety net around new recruits -- realising they will be far from home and needing to settle. If they pay you sufficiently and give you support to find your feet, that is a great benefit to going under the auscpices of a job. Initially, in my case, I had no such benefit -- but I did have family along and we all made friends. So there are a number of ways to feel secure. Just know in advance what you've got to rely on and, if you're talking to employers ask straight out what kind of back-up they supply -- especially in the first year. If you've had this dream twice, I wouldn't just give up. Maybe you and a colleague would like to try together?

 

[dragona]

Colleague?
Alone in this - as always---
A few friends that mean well, but that is all...I would be happy with a shorter period of time to work on my knowledge that would help me further here...but an (art)scollarship at my age... it all seams hopeless now...and what of hex 63 as an country of my choice?

 

[arabella]

Colleague?
Alone in this - as always---
A few friends that mean well, but that is all...I would be happy with a shorter period of time to work on my knowledge that would help me further here...but an (art)scollarship at my age... it all seams hopeless now...and what of hex 63 as an country of my choice?

I think an Art scholarship at any age is inspired! What would that entail? I'm not an expert on associating hex's with countries - maybe somebody actually knows how that lines up, if it does. But hexagram 63 would mean something to me like, whatever coordinates best with your work. For instance, don't just go for scenery, or some quirky idea, go for what will most forward your experience, resume, employment capabilities. I would really communicate with people where you would be headed. Check out all that you can about expense, etc. There are some European countries, and places in countries, where populations are decidedly younger, or older. Check demographics like that to see where you fit in. Think about language. After a bunch of experiences in different countries I know what I can and can't do in a foreign language. I can get the basics done in French. I can communicate pretty well in Spanish, but don't ask me technical questions or how I feel about the human soul or something. In a music field I could live nearly anywhere because everybody speaks "music" and you just play, sing, do what you do, and it falls together because you all understand that central issue. If you are doing painting, or something similar, your Art work will probably go along well. Just think of what happens when you go home, how hard do you want to work to communicate? If you are alone, life anywhere can be lonely. I'm here to testify. But it also has it's greater moments and the experience of travel and new places does a lot for some people -- like me. Maybe it would for you too.

 

[Trojina]

Colleague?
Alone in this - as always---
A few friends that mean well, but that is all...I would be happy with a shorter period of time to work on my knowledge that would help me further here...but an (art)scollarship at my age... it all seams hopeless now...and what of hex 63 as an country of my choice?

As the I Ching doesn't include place names I can't see how it can tell you which country...but anyway I would tend to take 63 as you already are where you need to be


To figure which country if you still want to work abroad you'd need to ask in turn about each country I think.

 

[pocossin]

and what of hex 63 as an country of my choice?

Hexagram 63 is the hexagram of the fox, and you are 'dragona'. The red fox is an aminal of the UK, and the dragon is the animal of Wales. The University of Wales is an art school.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_animals

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Wales,_Newport

 

[dragona]

Thank you all for working on my case here

Whish I was a musician but all my education is insufficient for great overnight achievements-remember hex 15...

Starting to get Trojan.. ;-) and yes, I even may do that...can one abuse I-Ching so it gets angry at you - I wonder?

Thank you Pocossin for those links...if only things were a bit simpler than they are here...

 

[dragona]

Hello all,:bows:
I have been stagnating this last 2 years but not without hoping for something to move in the situation for going abroad. I wanted to look more into this now, because most of my contacts did not offer much in terms of concrete help..
What if I continue in persuasion of a happier life abroad? hex. 17.1,3 into 62
Remembering that Bradford wrote of hex 17, as "following the pulse, the flow of things" and though relating hex 62 speaks of only small things can be accomplished ( for now?) but lines 1 and 3 look auspicious enough for me:
Initial 9 : The standards are changing. Determination auspicious. To come out of the gate and interact brings achievement.
Who stays inside does not notice the world is changing. He stays behind and loses his ability to bring about things. Weave the patterns of the time into your life, in order to understand your time and be understood.
6 at 3: Related to the big man, losing the small child. By following one obtains what one seeks. Harvest: determination about settling.
Follow what you see as big and valuable, and do not regret the small you have to leave behind. Dedication will reach its destination and find its fulfillment. LiSe

If anyone would add something to interpreting of this reading, I would be grateful, ty. :bows:

 

[tifa]

Well, as Dragona mention in a recent post, I shall give this thread a little push.

Hex 17.1.3: describes your situation and inner thoughts. Your active pursue for a "happier life" abroad.
Is the moon actually fuller and better looking than the one at home? Line 3 suggests not to pursue a superficial life. if you want to live abroad, it would be wise to know more about it. You have to understand the things that you have to give up for your ideal life.

Hex 62: smallness. Understanding the situation bit by bit. Is moving abroad the best move? If you are unhappy now, would moving abroad guarantee a happier you?

Best of luck
T

 

[dragona]

You are very oblidging tifa, I tank you:bows:
and it is not as if I have many choices or a lot of time left...cannot get a job in my profession, no jobs at all almost here - no help from the state, no connections to help me out. I am left to my own devices at the age one should be giving the most in one`s career and in any aspect of life; instead, there is nothing but depression.
So I do not dream of anything anymore, just thinking that maybe in some better organized country I could get a decent living - it would be about time I get something out of life. That reading seemed to be a bit more auspicious one, so I posted for a second oppinion.