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health question about kidney cyst. Surgery or not surgery? This is the question.

Irian_

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Hi! more or less two months ago, I opened a thread about the answers IChing gave me about a cyst found in my left kidney. Along this time I had a MRI done, showing the cyst has a 50/70 % malignant risk, with surgical ablation suggested. There is no possibility to do biopsy prior to surgery. Every surgeon I consulted said it is not urgent, but important done it maximum before summer. One suggested to remove the entire kidney, the others two just the cyst.
Along with surgery comes few concern about collateral effects, as the cyst is not in a good position for an easy removal. So, as you can imagine, I'm not so happy to risk maybe renal failure to remove something it is not sure it is malignant.
So I begun asking IChing the best way to deal with it, meaning IF to do surgery, help in choosing surgeons, as well as surgery timing.

Here the I Ching answers and my thoughts about. Please feel free to offer any suggestion and your thoughts .
As this is an important issue, any advice or point of view is more than welcome as food for thought !

My first question as soon as the cyst was found, through echography, some time before MRI:
- what to do with the cyst: 46.2.3 to 2 (at beginning I considered IChing saying not to fear, and that a simple, conservative approach as natural medicine, diet, sustaining my energy can drive to "enter in a empty city" (line 3), meaning there is nothing growing inside the cyst. I had an image of the empty city , with its wall, as the cyst.

But then I had the MRI results, and asked
- health evolution doing surgery : 18.6 to 46
- health evolution NOT doing surgery: 53.3.5 to 23
I read this as ok doing surgery, as not doing it lead to a splitting apart of my health

Meanwhile, I asked to a very competent homeopath to follow me, and I asked IC about the remedy he gave me:
1- health outcome assuming the remedy for a while before doing surgery, (meaning giving it time to work): 50.3.4.6 to 7
the remedy ideally has a great transformative power but there are some change to be done in the way I assume it (line3), and I need not to bee too rigid waiting for a result, as the risk is in loosing the benefit of situation (line4) , but definitely is good to use the remedy (line 6). Important to organize all the different kind of resources I have in a clear and efficient way (ex 7), using what is needed when is needed

But I'm not satisfied about my understanding, so few days later i asked
2- trying to reduce cyst before surgery: 6.2.5 to 35
I have some difficult here as the two changing line led to a different path. Line 2 seem to suggest a contradictory effort. Not waste time in something ineffective, but to use what the effect is predictable (meaning surgery?) (line2), in this way a good result is obtained. But then line 5 say that is very good to contend between the two options, and wait before to have surgery……..:duh: And the ex 35 refers to a growth of the cyst instead to reduce? :brickwall:

As from the beginning I'm using fasting, homeophaty and diet, trying to clarify few days later I asked:
3- health outcome of an intensive time using fasting, homeopath remedy and aloe trying to reduce the cyst before surgery : 32.3.4.5. to 29
I'm anxious (29), I need to be steady (32) in the decision taken (3rd line) as there is no way to be successful (line 4) and I need to be able to adapt to the circumstances (5 line). Here line 4 is speaking about "no wildfowl in the field", I'm looking for something there isn't, no tumor in the cyst? isn't possible to reduce the cyst so what the point in trying it? :duh::brickwall:

and I consulted as well three surgeons, two of them working with robotic laparoscopy, and one with the traditional approach, and I asked IChing for advice:

- traditional approach surgeon:
- health evolution doing surgery with F. 46.1.2.3.5 to 3
again 46. I interpret as an image about lifting out of the body of the cyst. Ok, but hard recovery time after the surgery

first Laparoscopy surgeon
- fate of surgery done with G.: 47 :confused: Maybe this is a road that I will not walk?
to clarify I asked:
- health evolution doing surgery with G.: 46.2 to 15
46 again: ok , a reliable solution. The result is realistic and I can trust the doctor approach

As I already had an appointment with another surgeon working with robotic laparoscopy (the last one!!), before to meet him I asked :
- health evolution doing surgery with B.: 30
Then, when I met him, that was exactly what's happened: he was extremely clear and explained very well many details about the cyst, and the surgery procedure, so 30 makes to me a lot of sense: he really offered a lot of clarity! And at the same time maybe I Ching is saying this surgeon seems someone I can refer, "clinging on him" :D

and about timing, trying to identify the best moment:
- surgery on september: 18.2.3 to 23 too long waiting, the cyst has decomposed? or my health is falling apart? :confused:
- surgery on february: 36 my energy will be obscured , not doing
- surgery on april: 6.4.5.6 to 7 could be basically right, but not everything is under my control, and I need to arrange to what happen step by step, organizing well my resources.

today I asked a clarification about surgery with B:
- outcomes to surgery with B: 40.4 to 7 I think IChing tells me:
Relax, and let go of trying to decide the direction, trust the help offered me and embrace it :rofl:
or
yes, right choice he can help you

So, these are my thoughts about this process, the day after tomorrow I will have a new MRI to see how situation is now, after two months, and I hope that will bring clarification to next steps…..

As previously said, any thoughts is more than welcome, and anyway thank you for reading such a long post!
:bows::bows::bows:

Irian
 

Trojina

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Hi! more or less two months ago, I opened a thread about the answers IChing gave me about a cyst found in my left kidney. Along this time I had a MRI done, showing the cyst has a 50/70 % malignant risk, with surgical ablation suggested. There is no possibility to do biopsy prior to surgery. Every surgeon I consulted said it is not urgent, but important done it maximum before summer. One suggested to remove the entire kidney, the others two just the cyst.
Along with surgery comes few concern about collateral effects, as the cyst is not in a good position for an easy removal. So, as you can imagine, I'm not so happy to risk maybe renal failure to remove something it is not sure it is malignant.
So I begun asking IChing the best way to deal with it, meaning IF to do surgery, help in choosing surgeons, as well as surgery timing.

There's a lot here and it's a serious issue so I'll work through as far as I can. Remember you must always use your instinct and your common sense when asking others for health readings on a forum like this.

Here the I Ching answers and my thoughts about. Please feel free to offer any suggestion and your thoughts .
As this is an important issue, any advice or point of view is more than welcome as food for thought !

Okay but always keep your own counsel also.

My first question as soon as the cyst was found, through echography, some time before MRI:
- what to do with the cyst: 46.2.3 to 2 (at beginning I considered IChing saying not to fear, and that a simple, conservative approach as natural medicine, diet, sustaining my energy can drive to "enter in a empty city" (line 3), meaning there is nothing growing inside the cyst. I had an image of the empty city , with its wall, as the cyst.

Agreed it does suggest there is nothing there to conquer, ie no malignancy. I personally could not go by this alone. If I'm asking about car problems I still go to the garage....if I have health problems I still consult medically qualified people.

But then I had the MRI results, and asked
- health evolution doing surgery : 18.6 to 46
- health evolution NOT doing surgery: 53.3.5 to 23
I read this as ok doing surgery, as not doing it lead to a splitting apart of my health

Have the surgery. You can't control everything yourself, there's times to surrender (18.6) 53.3 is a careless line of not dealing with things that are your responsibility, not looking after things. So if you don't have surgery you aren't taking care of yourself.

Meanwhile, I asked to a very competent homeopath to follow me, and I asked IC about the remedy he gave me:
1- health outcome assuming the remedy for a while before doing surgery, (meaning giving it time to work): 50.3.4.6 to 7
the remedy ideally has a great transformative power but there are some change to be done in the way I assume it (line3), and I need not to bee too rigid waiting for a result, as the risk is in loosing the benefit of situation (line4) , but definitely is good to use the remedy (line 6). Important to organize all the different kind of resources I have in a clear and efficient way (ex 7), using what is needed when is needed

I think your focus needs to be on the surgery rather than this. I see this cast as about the basic soundness of your body which the homeopath aims to support. 50.4 is somewhat worrying so I don't see using homeopathy in place of sooner surgery as a great idea. I think you have read your own cast well here though.

But I'm not satisfied about my understanding, so few days later i asked
2- trying to reduce cyst before surgery: 6.2.5 to 35
I have some difficult here as the two changing line led to a different path. Line 2 seem to suggest a contradictory effort. Not waste time in something ineffective, but to use what the effect is predictable (meaning surgery?) (line2), in this way a good result is obtained. But then line 5 say that is very good to contend between the two options, and wait before to have surgery……..:duh: And the ex 35 refers to a growth of the cyst instead to reduce? :brickwall:

How can you reduce the cyst yourself ? This is a waste of effort in this case, a waste of time. You don't know whether it might work or not. All these complementary methods are fine to support health but when you have an existing serious condition there's no use in messing around with fasts and wotnot. 6.2 says give up battling in this way but 6.5 says it's good to keep options open. I don't see this as to delay surgery, delaying surgery could be life threatening and frankly with life threatening illnesses homeopaths and wotnot are not enough ! Maybe 6.5 means go on using these different methods and also have the surgery.


As from the beginninghomeophaty and diet, trying to clarify few days later I asked:
3- health outcome of an intensive time using fasting, homeopath remedy and aloe trying to reduce the cyst before surgery : 32.3.4.5. to 29
I'm anxious (29), I need to be steady (32) in the decision taken (3rd line) as there is no way to be successful (line 4) and I need to be able to adapt to the circumstances (5 line). Here line 4 is speaking about "no wildfowl in the field", I'm looking for something there isn't, no tumor in the cyst? isn't possible to reduce the cyst so what the point in trying it? :duh::brickwall: I'm using fasting,

Absolutely no point in these things. There's no evidence fasting will reduce the cyst and the reading also indicates these approaches are futile. Homeopaths annoy me a great deal when they make claims far beyond their remit or capacity. A homeopath was treating my mother but she became more and more ill. Eventually she was admitted to hospital with a blood clot on her lung and pneumonia ! She was given warfarin to disperse the life threatening blood clot. Her irresponsible homeopath rang to say she shouldn't take warfarin ! Sometimes these people step so far beyond their capacities they act irresponsibly. No homeopath can claim to reduce the size of a tumour. The readings say there is nothing there that's useful and messing about with these things is actually harmful, you are dicing with your health if you favour these methods over medical treatment. I mean yes they may help but I don't feel you should delay surgery in order to wait for homeopathic treatment to work.

atraditional approach surgeon:
- health evolution doing surgery with F. 46.1.2.3.5 to 3
again 46. I interpret as an image about lifting out of the body of the cyst. Ok, but hard recovery time after the surgerynd I consulted as well three surgeons, two of them working with robotic laparoscopy, and one with the traditional approach, and I asked IChing for advice:

looks good but very slow steady progress. it looks thorough I guess but possibly too exploratory (3) It looks like someone going in to have look about rather than a quick in and out which sounds more like the 30uc below.

-

first Laparoscopy surgeon
- fate of surgery done with G.: 47 :confused: Maybe this is a road that I will not walk?
to clarify I asked:
- health evolution doing surgery with G.: 46.2 to 15
46 again: ok , a reliable solution. The result is realistic and I can trust the doctor approach

confused, both G ? Um 47 not so good, 46.2 again good.

As I already had an appointment with another surgeon working with robotic laparoscopy (the last one!!), before to meet him I asked :
- healthabout the cyst, and the surgery procedure, so 30 makes to me a lot of sense: he really offered a lot of clarity! And at the same time maybe I Ching is saying this surgeon seems someone I can refer, "clinging on him" evolution doing surgery with B.: 30
Then, when I met him, that was exactly what's happened: he was extremely clear and explained very well many details :D


This sounds good !

and about timing, trying to identifbut not everything is under my control, and I need to arrange to what happen step by step, organizing well my resourcesy the best moment:
- surgery on september: 18.2.3 to 23 too long waiting, the cyst has decomposed? or my health is falling apart? :confused:
- surgery on february: 36 my energy will be obscured , not doing
- surgery on april: 6.4.5.6 to 7 could be basically right, .

I think asking about the dates is just complicating matters. I think you would be better just to go ahead with the surgery when you are happy with the surgeon. You are placing a lot of pressure on yourself with all these choices. Keep it simple.



today I asked a clarification about surgery with B:
- outcomes to surgery with B: 40.4 to 7 I think IChing tells me:
Relax, and let go of trying to decide the direction, trust the help offered me and embrace it :rofl:
or

Yes that's my feeling. You are now at the stage where you are getting in your own way by taking so many complicating factors into account. Find a surgeon you trust, you sound very positive about the hex 30 uc one. Fix a date and go ahead.


So, these are my thoughts about this process, the day after tomorrow I will have a new MRI to see how situation is now, after two months, and I hope that will bring clarification to next steps…..

Hope the MRI shows no further degeneration, and hope maybe there's even improvement . Let us know how it goes.
 
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Irian_

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Thank you Trojina for working on all this material.
Here some thoughts and clarifications
Remember you must always use your instinct and your common sense
yes, I totally agree

Have the surgery. You can't control everything yourself, there's times to surrender (18.6)
I like the image of surrender about 18.6 you gave

A homeopath was treating my mother but she became more and more ill. Eventually she was admitted to hospital with a blood clot on her lung and pneumonia !
Sorry that your mother has gone trough this. Hope that now she's fine!

I have to clarify here, as there is something I didn't spoke about .
All the doctors says there is no urgency, and one of them ( B) said from now to the summer I'm in a safe time, as AT THIS STAGE the yearly average growth rate of this disease is 2/3 mm, so he asked for a new MRI to confront with the previous one and be more precise about timing.
That's the reason why I'm wondering about how using this time with homeopathy et al., and trying to choose the surgery timing, as I am really sure that there could be a huge difference in the outcome if I'm in a good energy or not.
Anyway I understand what you mean, and appreciate your straight way to take care ;)
And of course, I will follow the surgeon suggestion about when to go ahead after he see the new MRI and I will stay in the limits he will gave me.
By the way, today I didn't the MRI, as the machine broke !! they called me and gave me a new appointment for next week :rant:


confused, both G ? Um 47 not so good, 46.2 again good.
yes, both about G.
First time I asked
- surgery fate done with G.: 47
then, realizing the question form is not straight to the meaning , I asked to clarify:
- health evolution doing surgery with G.: 46.2 to 15

47 to me fits with the surgeon nature: he's a big boss, and decide himself what is right and what is wrong, and his communication is extremely basic. In that sense he "confine" me, and that not like me. On another level he is a very good practitioner, one of the best in that field, so the second answer is 46.2 I can trust him, he is real

Anyway yes, you are correct, i'm very positive about the other surgeon, B. and the Yi answer it is, too. My only concern with 30 uc, is not having changing lines. what do you think about the meaning of having no changing lines in this case?

:bows::bows::bows:
 
D

diamanda

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surgery fate done with G.: 47
Just a footnote/idea about this - it might be describing what will happen to the cyst (= drained).
 

Irian_

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thank you, diamanda, for the suggestion. It is interesting to relate 47 with the image of the cyst being drained and the thoughts developing from that.
In the surgery the cyst will be cut away being careful not to open it in any way, and your suggestion made me think that 47 show a tree separated from everything else from a wall, so in a way could be referred to this process of separation.
Thank you for your insight!

Beside the obvious practical consequences of this situation, I find fascinating and very helpful to receive your thoughts and impression about answers Yi gave me.
It is an opportunity to learn, and to go deeper in the relationship with Yi, seeing other sides of the answer and other lines of thought.
So, if someone has contributions, please consider to offer it! I'm grateful

Irian
 

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