Here are the real questions

[shefa]

Yeah, I know, it's best to ask the person directly how he feels ... but indulge me a little, here. I'm feeling insecure.

How does he feel about my body?
13.3.5.6 to 51

How does he feel about me sexually?
37.5 to 22

 

[edge]

Hi Shefa,
thing is...its not really about us indulging you, but more about the likelihood of you getting an accurate reading from that type of question! I know its been said before, but often its impossible to 'mind read' someone else's feelings, either yourself or through the I Ching. Do you have any thoughts on what those readings mean to you? I also wonder if you replace 'he' with 'I' in your questions (what do I feel about my body...?) that you might get some really useful insight and basis for self reflection. Also useful might be 'what do I need to know about my insecurity?' or 'how do I deal with these feelings?'.
Good luck and hope the insecurity begins to fade a bit soon,
E

 

[meng]

I think indulge was an honest choice of words. Just to play Pan's advocate, in case the Yi isn't being quite so picky as some of Clarity's members seem to be:

My impression based on a literal interpretation is that he thinks you are are generous, kind, humanly warm and beautiful; and 51 would speak of a high degree of excitement.

Looks like you're into tall clover with this guy.

 

[rosada]

Beautifully said, meng. I realize much of my resistance was due to lack of your poetic skills.

-rosada:bows:

 

[rosada]

Wasn't it Solstice yesterday? So wouldn't it be totally appropriate that such a post as this would be appearing at this time?
-r

 

[Trojina]

why ? i see no solstice connection....at all ? whos post do you mean ? Edges ?

 

[rosada]

Well I was thinking Spring Solstice is the time for frolicking in the meadow so I thought maybe Winter Solstice would be a time when people might be particularly insecure about their ability to frolick.

-r.

 

[maremaria]

I wonder how sure can we be that Yi refuses to give answers to such questions ? If because of fear, doubts, insecurities we luck to have a clear picture and we ask such questions, would Yi give us some correct answers to rethink the situation and see it with a calmer, clearer mind?

If I’m in the middle of self-doubt crisis and I believe that my bf doesn’t love me. like me , care for me and fail to “recall” things that prove the opposite, couldn’t be possible that Yi would help me to remember ?

 

[Trojina]

well i was thinking spring solstice is the time for frolicking in the meadow so i thought maybe winter solstice would be a time when people might be particularly insecure about their ability to frolick.

-r.

lol

 

[meng]

Beautifully said, meng. I realize much of my resistance was due to lack of your poetic skills.

-rosada:bows:

Merry Christmas. Magic poetic thingies inside.

 

[edge]

I wonder how sure can we be that Yi refuses to give answers to such questions ? If because of fear, doubts, insecurities we luck to have a clear picture and we ask such questions, would Yi give us some correct answers to rethink the situation and see it with a calmer, clearer mind?

If I’m in the middle of self-doubt crisis and I believe that my bf doesn’t love me. like me , care for me and fail to “recall” things that prove the opposite, couldn’t be possible that Yi would help me to remember ?

I'm not sure at all that Yi 'refuses', does or doesn't give answers to that type of question. It would seem amazingly arrogant of me to profess to have such knowledge. What I do believe though is that this is an amazingly powerful way to increase our self knowledge and all we really have control over are our responses and our experience of the world. So asking 'what does he think of...' doesn't really provide any real insight into what's going on for us or what we need to learn from a situation or experience. If the answer is negative, does it say anything about us or the relationship? What then? I'm not saying Shefa is wrong for feeling the way she does (I'm sure I've been there many times), but this type of question is not the best way to learn about the situation in my opinion. Just an opinion, out there for people to disagree with...
E

 

[meng]

Edge, I respect your opinion. It used to be mine, and it sometimes still is. To me, it's discretionary. It may also be different when we handle it for our own questions, because being the self-conscious seeking type, we're first to look where we need adjusting, before looking outside for answers, much less asking what someone else thinks of us.

Here's the mitigating circumstances for me. First, she so much as admitted it was a self indulgent question, which I think expresses the kind of sincerity which might influence Yi's response to the simple and transparently asked question. I know I would answer someone with that kind of sincere candor. In fact, I did!

Understanding where we realistically stand with someone important to us can serve to clear things up quickly. And isn't that the point? It's like looking in the mirror, but the other person looking back. Sounds quite a lot like 20.6.

 

[Trojina]

Beautifully said, meng. I realize much of my resistance was due to lack of your poetic skills.

-rosada:bows:

Rosada what form did your 'resistance' take ? I'd seen no previous post of yours here resisting anything unless you mean thanking Edge for his thoughtful honest post was a form of resistance ? its a pity if you devalued that to the extent that you are now saying you only thanked him because you lacked 'poetic skills'. Hmm thats a kinda strange thing to say and I don't understand ?

 

[bamboo]

I have been using the Yi for a very long time and I can vouch for the fact that it has given me accurate readings on the positions of other people. I have used it about relationships and in work situations . I dont think there is as much separation between us as humans as we might imagine, in fact I dont think the Yi really speaks to separation at all, it speaks to dynamics and the interplay of life, and other people are a big part of that. Jerry Jampolsky, a writer who published books a decade or so ago on the Course In Miracles used to be fond saying : There are no Private thoughts, on some level we intuit the truth all the time, but we often override it.

I loved Bruce's reading for Shefa!

 

[maremaria]

Edge, I hear you and I don't dissagree with your main point, but I was talking about a 20.6 intention as Meng mentions too, behind the question and not a mind-reading one. To get a better view of the situation.

I needed to ask in the past about someone " do I love him ?". and " given the situation, what do i need to know about his feelings". It was a time of great confusion and needed to really see.

 

[Trojina]

I loved Bruce's reading for Shefa!

Does that mean it has any truth whatsoever though ? Does you loving it make it correct ? Does Bruce know all about this mans sexual feelings for Shefa ? Really ? I find it as fictional as anyone elses would be . Does 13.3.5.6>51 actually really mean "you're into tall clover with this guy" ?

I can think of other ways to read it and they'd all be guesses too and probably bear no relation whatsoever to his sexual inclinations to Shefa.

Of course if Shefa just wants some nice words to hold I guess alls well....but I thought this forum was for sharing readings and theres still not a whole lot of sharing going on when someone plonks down questions like these and not only just sits and waits for answers but specifies they want answers they like because they feel insecure....

its too near Xmas to be fighting but honestly...lets have a bit more honesty here.

In any reading we could say we are guessing...but when it comes to telling one person what another is thinking to be honest we are really skating onthin ice.

This is not to say the Yi does not answer such questions, as Edge said who are we to know what happens between querant and Yi...but for a stranger to attempt to interpet what anothers thinking, especially in such a private area...well I guess it has to be done lightly as I assume this reading was.

 

[jesed]

You wrote

well I guess it has to be done lightly as I assume this reading was.

And that was exactly what Meng did: give a guess (a very educated guess, in my opinion) not a dogma

I think ... Just to play Pan's advocate, in case the Yi isn't being quite so picky ... My impression based on a literal interpretation ...Looks like...

But when you need to fight, you need to fight, isn't?

Best

 

[maremaria]

When I express my worries with a question to Yi and there is in the line i get a "do not worry" phrase then I assume that perhaps Yi tries to say that my worries are not that valid and I need to re-examing them.

 

[Trojina]

...well I guess it has to be done lightly as I assume this reading was.

You wrote



And that was exactly what Meng did: give a guess (a very educated guess, in my opinion) not a dogma



But when you need to fight, you need to fight, isn't?

Best

as I said thats what i assumed he was doing what is your point ? If members want to tell people what other people are thinking from their answers its up to them, but if others state a different view such as Edge did I do not really think they are being 'picky' as Meng described it. Infact I'm usually pleased because it encourages people to think about their answers more and expect to be spoonfed less.

You yourself many times remind people they will be more effective by asking about themselves rather than what others think and I'm glad that you do. If doing that is 'picky' long live picky...

 

[jesed]

You yourself many times remind people they will be more effective by asking about themselves rather than what others think and I'm glad that you do. If doing that is 'picky' long live picky...

No, of course... being picky is when someone say: "don't ask that way" or "the Yi doesn't answer that kind of questions". And some Clarity's member have said that many times. Meng -as long as I understand, maybe I'm wrong- wasn't talking about Edge, but those others members

But I would let this in peace now. I don't want to distract the thread

Best.

 

[meng]

Just before I responded to this thread I'd read two other threads where less experienced folks were shot down for their inappropriate questions. This was the third thread in a row where this happened, hence my comment about some members being picky. We need to lighten up. We too quickly dismiss what is unimportant to us, rather than to the one who asks for an interpretation, for whom their question might be very important.

 

[shefa]

wow. so many responses here. thank you.

trojan, one thought to share with you - why is it any different for us to attempt to interpret G-d's intentions, or the Universe's intentions, but not another human being's intentions?

my questions were sincere. And yes, they came form a place of insecurity. And yes, I know the BEST answer is living life itself more than depending upon the toss of a coin. And yes, I know that yi's answers are ultimately always about me, no matter what I'm asking about. And, I also agree, all truth is always known, and somewhere inside me, I "know" the answers to any question I ask.

ultimately, I probably believe (I think) that talking with yi is a conversation with myself. My wisest self. My transpersonal self. Sometimes I am sooo stuck in my head, or fears, that I seem unable to access this wisdom and depth. that's when I turn to yi. I am not afraid to admit to insecurity and self-doubt. I am human. hopefully yi is respectful enough to give me accurate and wise answers, especially when I need them most. this question was one of those times.

I hope Bruce is right. mostly, I feel Bruce is right. I may be undervaluing myself, because my body has some stretch marks and is a little saggy in places. this comes from a life lived. I wish he knew me before this, but no. I wish I knew him 10 years ago. 15 years ago. but no. I know he could have others (has had others) younger in years without blemishes. there seem to be so many of them out there. I am special and unique and lovely in so many ways, BUT ... this is how I feel about me. I do not want to project this onto him. not fair. I also do not want to be naive. no, it's not quite so ... really, I like everyone wants to avoid being hurt, if possible. so I am looking for certainty where there is only uncertainty right now. am I enough? i guess THAT is the real question. am I enough FOR ME?

 

[lloyd]

Hi meng
I have sometimes given the advice not to try and read other people’s minds, but I do not think of myself as being picky because there is a sound alternative. Taking yourself as the focus in questioning does not mean that you shut out others. You may see the reactions/attitude by others reflected in the answers you get; or reflected in lines that are related.
None of us lives on an island; be it in reality or in the I Ching.
Meanwhile, the questions about others on this forum are not all the same. Sometimes (repeated) questions about others are introduced in such a way that you sense in the writing that the questioner fears that the mistake may be with her/himself; using I Ching to prove one’s non-attachment or righteousness.
I don’t think that there are many clear cut cases in this category …

 

[meng]

Lloyd, I never said picky was wrong. I admitted to being picky too. I only presented an alternative to the prevailing pickiness.

What's with the thin skin of some resident experts? Can surely dole out the criticism, but can't accept it well at all.

 

[rodaki]

ultimately, I probably believe (I think) that talking with yi is a conversation with myself. My wisest self. My transpersonal self. Sometimes I am sooo stuck in my head, or fears, that I seem unable to access this wisdom and depth. that's when I turn to yi. I am not afraid to admit to insecurity and self-doubt. I am human. hopefully yi is respectful enough to give me accurate and wise answers, especially when I need them most. this question was one of those times.

for what it's worth, my favorite teachers were those who were vigilant as well as compassionate, and the Yi has proven to be one of them (4.6: no use in punishing the ignorant, much use in preventing transgressions) . . thank you for sharing Shefa . .


:bows:

 

[bostonian]

one thought to share with you - why is it any different for us to attempt to interpret G-d's intentions, or the Universe's intentions, but not another human being's intentions?

that's a very good question. In fact, I think the i Ching can be a good complement to other ways of trying to decipher human's feelings and intentions. Asking the person directly how he/she feels is just one way, and may not be the best way since people sometimes lie; people don't always know how they feel; asking the question could create problems (for example the person being asked may feel pressured and break off the friendship); it sometimes take a lot of courage to ask the question, etc. Accordingly, everyone uses other clues to determine people's feelings. For example, how does he/she treat one; does he/she call often; does his/her face light up when he sees one, etc. Why not add the I Ching to the mix. However, as everyone knows, the answer may not be a direct response to the question.