Hex 19 and 20: a visual pun?

[elias]

I've been contemplating 19 recently; a friend new to IC gets it repeatedly and I find myself at a bit of a loss to explain...

Hex 19 : As it's in the lower half of the hexagram series, it should be contemplated through the lens of inner work and the developing self. At the same time, I wonder if it speaks to the "teaching moment" when both the teacher and the pupil have a deep exchange -- though that exchange may be within the self, the different selves, "the ancestors" with their deeper knowledge and the querent in her/his present state of development. ( I'm following Ms Barrett's take on some of these issues at http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2012/02/27/hexagram-19-and-ancestors/ )

It occurred to me that as an inverse to 20, 19 could represent a cup being filled, a notion reinforcing the Lake-in-the-Earth imagery. The Spirits draw near in 19, filling the individual with wisdom, energy, etc. "Authority approaches" in some old translations. In 20, the "cup" is turned over, the libation poured out, the cycle is completed. The querent in 19 gains the authority; the querent in 20 has the authority.

So-- hex 19 being filled with knowledge, hex 20 putting knowledge into action; hex 19 the mountaintop hermit, perhaps with a disciple or two, hex 20 the leader of a group, observed by many in a more formal ritualized setting. I'm still spinning out the ideas here.... but hopefully some of these parallels make sense.

(And apologies if this is an old recognition for some of you -- I've checked a few sources but found nothing supportive of today's grand theory)

Any ideas?

 

[meng]

I've entertained a variation of this picture. While 20 seeks a higher vantage point, and to sometimes be made visible, 19, though often depicted as high and overseeing, is actually low and embracing, if one chooses to use trigrams to form the image - with earth surrounding the lake, a symbol of a mother caring and giving borders and limits to her youngest daughter, Dui. So there is still overseeing in 19, but from a ground level, rather than from a tower, as in 20. As such, I feel 19 is more personal, intimate or affectionate than 20, which is more objective.

 

[anemos]

It occurred to me that as an inverse to 20, 19 could represent a cup being filled, a notion reinforcing the Lake-in-the-Earth imagery. The Spirits draw near in 19, filling the individual with wisdom, energy, etc. "Authority approaches" in some old translations. In 20, the "cup" is turned over, the libation poured out, the cycle is completed. The querent in 19 gains the authority; the querent in 20 has the authority.

yesterday i encountered a word i didn't know it meaning, while listening to an interview. It was the word "curator"; A curator (from Latin: curare meaning "take care") is a manager or overseer. I had to smile , reading your post , because I found it a very h19 word.

This video, that presents some curator have some similarities with what you post and the part I quote .

The word I use for 19 is under-stand, stand among, stand down here and not up there(20). Maybe its because English is not my first language, but oversee , in my mind, creates a kind of distance, while under-stand has this embracing quality as Meng says too. There is a greek word that makes more sense to me than oversee, for 19. "be close to," cf. Greek epistamai " "I know how, I know," lit. "I stand upon."

The meaning is almost the same , but to me, is closer to h19, the "take care of" part is more strong, there is an immediate closeness opposite to h20's distance. I see an association with those differences and the visual of the two cups you present here.

 

[elias]

@Meng - I agree that there's a distinction between the power models in 19 and 20 to be sorted out. 19 is not just "20 lite", there's a different sort of energy or transaction involved. I played with the notion that 19 is temporal power and 20 is sacred power, but that doesn't seem to work. Your observation that 19 is more personal, intimate, affectionate vs the 20's objectivity is quite compelling.

@anemos: Curate / curator is an interesting description -- attentive, careful, contemplative. If there is a fault, it is in being too attentive, and failing to foresee the inevitable changes to come "in the eighth month." Epistamai is an interesting choice also -- but I wonder if it's more appropriate for 20? As an American, the usual title of "overseeing" has a very strong negative connotation of power enforced through violence -- which is not appropriate for 19. I've considered "shepherding" as a better name for the hex, though I don't find it wholly satisfying either.

Thanks for your ideas!

 

[rodaki]

hi Elias!

I like what you say about hx19 and its resemblance to a 'teaching moment'. I think what makes it even more interesting is that when hx19 goes thru the energy of hx27 (moving, yang lines 1st and 6th) it comes out as . . hx4 . It sounds a bit like saying that in 19 we fill up the unknown, that which needs to be taken care of. In the same way, hxs 20 and 4 are linked thru 29: the repetitive act of practice, with teacher watching from a distance, while students engage with their own efforts and failures.

I also like the thought of the cup being filled in 19, especially if I think of crops and the cycles of harvest: here in 19 we do all the preparations, all the stuff needed to gather up the crops from the fields; in hx20 we empty out the sacs and measure up our success or failure and offer our achievement to the 'temple' (pun intended).

I find that trigrams are indeed very helpful in all of this and bring in also what Bruce mentioned in his post: Lake, the receptacle, is very much about our emotions, agonies, joys of harvest. The word that fits it best, imo, is empathy, or 'being in sympathy with', an attitude that comes in very handy when demonstrating something to students, since it helps you anticipate the troubling points and work through them. 'Shepherd' is an interesting term too, especially the attentive, almost intuitively aware of their flock, one. On the other hand, trigram 'wind', the older yin, is, imo, more closely linked to intellectually perceiving, deciphering (even 'calculating'?) the phenomena around. I also like 'epistamai' for 20, both for its etymological meaning ('stand over') and because it is the source of 'epistates' (see here) and 'episteme' (which is then linked to the 'ivory tower' of intellectuals, and so on and so forth).


Overall a fun and interesting way to look at those hexagrams - thanks for sharing!

 

[anemos]

I've considered "shepherding" as a better name for the hex, though I don't find it wholly satisfying either.

it has a similar meaning, yes ! It isn't a position that comes with a corner office but more close to what it needs to be done, in terms of authority you mention in your initial post.

In another vein , its the different way you address God- the father and Virgin Mary - the mother.

 

[jiang]

Yesterday, I had a nice experience with 19 and 20. I was reading a book about Buddhist psychology: ‘Thoughts without a thinker’ from Mark Epstein. Reading this book I was contemplating how difficult it sometimes is to see people in a broader perspective, to release from compulsive thoughts and emotions about people. At a certain moment I was reading a chapter named ‘Intelligent Seeing’ and I remember that I planned a weekly Yijing consultation, for what I needed to know for the future week. A put aside my book and consult the Book of Changes. Got 20.1.2.5.6>19. Seeing to Nearing! I'm a sceptic, I believe that there is no connection other then chance between a casting an the result (so imo every Gua can be a useful startingpoint to start a proces to bring movement in seized thoughts) but sometimes I'm really amazed