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(Hex 23.6 to 2) About my estranged wife

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bologna_tendra

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I am sorry to hear it was not the response you wanted from her. Do you think it's possible you might not feel the way you do now forever? Also do you have others around you who know how you feel and may support you at this time?
 
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Enqquery

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Do you think it's possible you might not feel the way you do now forever? Also do you have others around you who know how you feel and may support you at this time?

I made a vow, so this is the way I will feel forever. Set in stone, written on my bones. I do have a large support network, it’s a blessing. I have a number of good, and more than a few great things in my life. I am and have been blessed.

She has triggered part of the wedding vows that say someone needs to die, an ‘until death do depart‘ sort of thing.
 
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Enqquery

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She has triggered part of the wedding vows that say someone needs to die, an ‘until death do depart‘ sort of thing.

Obviously I am talking about me here. I wish her all the best. Long life, and a good memory. Just to be sure that there is no confusion.

I promised not to do anything until I had finished the available treatments. Which is what I am doing tomorrow!
 

bologna_tendra

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I think if one person decides to break the contract or the vows by activating a divorce then the other person - in this case yourself - I believe is released from the vows and any commitments they may indicate. If you were married in a religious ceremony you may ask the priest or the authority involved about this and get their take also. All the best.
 
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Enqquery

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I think if one person decides to break the contract or the vows by activating a divorce then the other person - in this case yourself - I believe is released from the vows and any commitments they may indicate.

The religious authority says that while suicide would technically adhere to the vows, that would raise a whole lot of other issues and that if you want to adhere to the vows you should continue to love the person in your thoughts, wish them the best, and live a life of celibacy as you had promised yourself only to them.

The religious authority went on to explain thatsuch an approach, while laudable, is not expected.

Which means that wedding vows mean nothing. Promises mean nothing. Marriages mean nothing, save whatever benefits the government may apply towards them, at which point they are actually a net detriment to men.

Love as a promise to care for someone is at best pretty words but is most likely simply a drug in the brain and is just as reliable as a junky looking for their next fix.

She put me in a world where there is no truth because it is all subjective. There are no promises because no one expects you to keep them. There is no love save a drug in your brain. Nothing that means anything to me means anything to anyone else and she took the time to show me that.

No, I keep my promises.

I wish her good health, a long life, a good memory, and the understanding that breaking an oath carries with it a cost even if you are not the one that paid it you still bear the responsibility.
 
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bologna_tendra

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I have been studying my family history recently and it's been very interesting to see ancestors reaching back sixteen generations or more into the 1500s - it impressed on me the great amount of life that had come together in different times and places to lead eventually to me. I think it was Carl Jung who wrote somewhere about how the individual is a unique configuration - you stem from what leads into you but are not the same thing - and what stems out the other side into the future is also of you but changed. He said there is really nothing like you before and after - and with that comes a different type of responsibility, what he calls individuation, one which I hadn't considered before, and which kind of amounts to retrieving a pearl from the darkness of the seabed. Another thing Jung wrote: "And just as the wounder wounds himself, so the healer heals himself" [memories, dreams, reflections, pg. 256]

All the best
 
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Enqquery

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"And just as the wounder wounds himself, so the healer heals himself"

I don’t understand how is she hurting herself in this case? She is hurting me.

I am trying to fix things Hexagram 32 speaks of duration, constancy, and the need to follow your dao.
In the end sometimes all you can do is choose where you stand.

If a man vows a vow to the Lord, or swears an oath to bind himself by a pledge, he shall not break his word. He shall do according to all that proceeds out of his mouth – Numbers 30:2

Tis not the many oaths that make the truth;
but the plain single vow, that is vowed true. – Shakespeare


In the end sometimes all you can do is choose where you stand.

All the best to you as well
 

bologna_tendra

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Of course constancy is generally speaking a virtue, although perhaps in some circumstances it may not be so; this kind of relativity seems to be part of the Book of Changes and the insight of ancient China. Over the course of winter I took the time to get involved with the avant-garde poetry of Robert Lax as well as read a biography of his interesting life. At one point in his journals he writes "Whatever can be separated from us is not the way". At first I thought that it sounds quite nice and clever though is probably not true. The more I think on it however the more persuasive and seductive I am finding this formula. In passing through a crisis of the night of my own, I have been holding to this formula.
All the best
 

hilary

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Hi Enqquery,

That 23.6 reading you cast - twice - is such a strong, compassionate one it seems worth engaging with it again.

You're in the midst of Stripping Away now - feeling what is being taken from you, knowing in your bones there is nothing you can do to stop this. But Yi gives you not only Stripping Away, but also this line:

'A ripe fruit uneaten.
Noble one gets a cart,
Small people strip their huts.'

23 is the nadir, and the only way things can go from here is towards Return (24): recovery and new life. The uneaten fruit contains the seed of that new life.

It's as if you are standing with the small people, staring at your demolished home, pulling at the shattered beams, seeing nothing but destruction. This line invites you to turn around and look out from here.

You'll find you are looking across Hexagram 2's vast field. The field's empty... because the seed is not yet growing. It can be planted - it will grow. This is a fertile, limitless field, just waiting to shelter and nourish the new seed.

And this is what the noble one's cart is for - to head out and explore the field. You might have to build the cart out of those shattered roof beams, but it'll be a good one and carry you far.
 
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Enqquery

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Thank you.

You have given me a lot to think about, which is why the delay in my reply.

You'll find you are looking across Hexagram 2's vast field. The field's empty... because the seed is not yet growing.

I don’t know what the seed is, or where to find it. I don’t know how to build a cart. Most significantly I do not understand Hexagram 2. I believe I mentioned such earlier but it could have easily been lost among the other things.

I think that I have difficulty with 1 and 2 because their nature is pure and I have no context with which to work. How do you interpret absolute action or absolute receptivity.

My soon to be ex, is being aggressive in seeking a divorce the way she is, by not seeking any mediation, taking the matter straight to court vying for everything I had saved up to start a life with whoever would be my wife. A friend of mine made a valid argument against taking irrevocable action until after the divorce. She believes I will see a true face of my soon to be ex that will make me reconsider my vow.

I asked Yi “about my life during this divorce”: The response was 2.6 to 23.
The old dragons fighting. Which seems to indicate a long and arduous divorce. One that will not give me the opportunity to seek a harmonious end.

When I asked “about my divorce”: Yi replied with 41.5 to 61
Someone's increase. Ten pairs of tortoise and nothing is able to contradict it. Eminent Auspiciousness. Is this my increase? What is increasing? This is a hexagram about Decrease, is it saying my understanding of decrease will be increased?
 
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hilary

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Thank you.

You have given me a lot to think about, which is why the delay in my reply.



I don’t know what the seed is, or where to find it.
I would think of it as the seed of your future self - all the potential as yet unrealised.

I don’t know how to build a cart. Most significantly I do not understand Hexagram 2. I believe I mentioned such earlier but it could have easily been lost among the other things.

I think that I have difficulty with 1 and 2 because their nature is pure and I have no context with which to work. How do you interpret absolute action or absolute receptivity.

Cart-building will come with time! And yes, I know what you mean about Hexagrams 1 and 2. What helps me is to think less about their pure, abstract nature and make more use of their imagery. Absolute receptivity is like the earth - and I spend time in my garden with my hands in the soil, so I see how it supports germination. And the oracle also mentions the mare, so you can think of the responsiveness of a sensitive horse, picking up on the smallest cues.

It doesn't matter if you don't know what to 'do' with such imagery all at once - you can explore it with your imagination and let it sink in.
My soon to be ex, is being aggressive in seeking a divorce the way she is, by not seeking any mediation, taking the matter straight to court vying for everything I had saved up to start a life with whoever would be my wife. A friend of mine made a valid argument against taking irrevocable action until after the divorce. She believes I will see a true face of my soon to be ex that will make me reconsider my vow.
Your friend sounds wise.
I asked Yi “about my life during this divorce”: The response was 2.6 to 23.
The old dragons fighting. Which seems to indicate a long and arduous divorce. One that will not give me the opportunity to seek a harmonious end.
The mirror reflection of your first reading.

Yes, that could point to an acrimonious divorce, despite your best efforts. Some background to this line that might cast a different light, though...

You know the lines of Hexagram 1 are full of dragons? The theory is that they depict a huge celestial Dragon, made of several constellations, whose journey across the night sky marked the seasons of the farming year. When the dragon first appears over your fields, you know it's time to start ploughing - and so on.

Well... at the very end of winter, the dragon is still visible low in the sky before dawn, on the same days that its horn starts to appear over the horizon at dusk. So there appear to be 'two dragons' in the sky - one clinging on from winter, one arriving with spring.

If 2.6 is about those two dragons, then this is a fight between dragons of winter and spring. One wants to keep things cold and frozen; the other wants to bring warmth and rain and allow that seed to germinate. The divorce may be a battle, but I think this is also about the internal battle between your own dragons.

When I asked “about my divorce”: Yi replied with 41.5 to 61
Someone's increase. Ten pairs of tortoise and nothing is able to contradict it. Eminent Auspiciousness. Is this my increase? What is increasing? This is a hexagram about Decrease, is it saying my understanding of decrease will be increased?
Oh wow - that’s a beautiful line. Yes, this is your increase. The whole story of Decrease is of giving things up for the sake of something higher. It works together very closely with 42, Increase: your vessel is emptied out in 41, to make space for the Increase of 42. Hence there are some lines in 41 that talk about the moment of change from decrease to increase - like this one.

What's increasing? In big sweeping general terms: everything good increases. First, it says you're increased 'by ten pairs of tortoise shells'. Paired shells would have been used for divination, so this is basically saying 'everything's going your way,' the divinations are unanimously favourable. But maybe a secondary meaning is that your insight increases and you reach the truth, as if you had ten tortoise shells' worth of understanding.
 
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Enqquery

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Oh wow - that’s a beautiful line.

I hope so. I have not seen daylight in months (figuratively).

This is a long one because the two Dragons being winter and summer really caught my attention. So I took a closer look at it. What follows is long and explains my train of thought. You can skip to the end to what Yi said about the Dragons

a fight between dragons of winter and spring. One wants to keep things cold and frozen; the other wants to bring warmth and rain and allow that seed to germinate. The divorce may be a battle, but I think this is also about the internal battle between your own dragons.

It says something about our world when so many people jump to the idea that I must be trying to control her. I presume because suicide is often a form of emotional blackmail. Although in a number of cases it was simply because I was the man.

I never let her know suicide was an option because it was not until she broke her vow. Even then I would not blackmail her, whatever relationship would be born from that sort of manipulation would be like wishing on the monkey’s paw. You will not like what comes back.

So many people pointed that I started to think that maybe I was and just didn’t notice. I have never been controlling of her. I have prided myself on... many things but it always comes back to pride.

The winter dragon is pride. I am not a controlling person, or a demanding one, except of myself. I never wanted to change her, but I tried to change the world so she would stay. I went through 10K in medical procedures to literally change my mind. To make myself more the person she said she wanted. Because my pride said I had to keep my vow. Like the “Minstrel Boy” (one of my favorite poems), I would keep my promise “though all the world betrays thee”.

This is not always bad Just like winter there is a time for relentlessness, for dogged determination, in those times that dragon has served me well. It has only ever been me that it has controlled.

I have never made demands of her, and honestly I should have. I never gave her the chance to grow not because I controlled what she could do, but because I removed obstacles. I promised I would. My pride played a part in the failure of this relationship because I could not see how doing exactly what I promised to do could be bad. Which again was pride.

Don’t get me wrong, I believe the lion’s share of the problems in the relationship were from her, but my pride played a part.

Now I know that part of the winter dragon that is dragging me down is prideful determination.

What is the Summer Dragon? It’s not hope, I don’t feel hope, I still feel pain at everything. In fact the Winter Dragon’s prideful determination has been what has been keeping me going.

If I set that aside, what is there? Facing a likely acrimonious divorce with nothing but my Winter Dragon, bare determination, is daunting.

Facing it with a seed that promises a future of plenty, a cart that has yet to be built, and a field that has yet to be planted, is just madness

So continuing down this path I asked Yi: “What is my Winter Dragon” and it responded with 41.2 to 27

Be a guide, not a boss. Perseverance allows you nourish others during a time of decrease but it must be done without lessening oneself. The need for balance which Maui talked about during my Ketamine Infusions.

OK, that sounds like my Winter Dragon.

Then I asked Yi: “What is my Summer Dragon” and it responded with 50UC

So is that saying my Summer Dragon is my Dao, which is currently changing into something else?

Since they are both the same dragon you need both your Dao and determination; the will to follow your Dao. Was my Winter Dragon “raging” because I had been lessening myself for another. without a Dao I could follow that would not kill me?

This still means I need to face this challenge on faith alone. I always thought I had strong faith. I don’t think I did, I think I had pride and determination.

It all makes sense, have faith, wait, your Dao will find you, it will all work out. (e.g. Don’t Panic)

i feel so lost
 

hilary

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It all makes sense, have faith, wait, your Dao will find you, it will all work out. (e.g. Don’t Panic)
Yes, exactly. It seems Yi is giving you some imagery now you can relate to at once - the losses of Stripping Away, the battling dragons - and some you can't relate to yet: the seed, the blessings of 41.5, and now the Vessel itself. So yes, you do need to take those on faith. The readings are recognising and acknowledging exactly where you are now, and they are saying - it will not always be like this, look, here are the good things that are coming. You have to believe the whole message, even when this feels mad.

Winter and summer dragons, at their simplest, are about past and future. Or about stasis versus change and growth. But of course spring does, in fact, come every year - summer dragon wins.

The Vessel is a big, rich image. It's a cooking pot: the ingredients put into it are transformed into good stew. It's cast from bronze, so it's something beautiful in its own right, crafted with skill and dedication. And it's a sacred vessel, at the heart of the ritual to connect daily life with protective, guiding spirits, a big solid assurance of their help.

What can that be? Your dao, yes. The 'container' of your whole life. Your awareness, transforming the 'raw ingredients' of experience.
 
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Enqquery

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Hello,

I had said I would provide updates. I am, if nothing else, a man of my word.

It’s a long post, but it has been a bit. The readings are in the order I cast them, the rest is just context.

The Divorce is as acrimonious as I had feared. I am not sure if this is because of her, or her lawyer. So I do not want to put blame where it is not due.

Right now I feel more negative emotions than positive ones. Usually pain and anger, a sense of loss, desperation, a desire to have the noise in my head stop without knowing that it is all just on the other side of a thin sheet of ice. One I reinforce every morning when I wake up crying, and every night when I cry before bed.

This seems to harken back to me still holding on to the Winter Dragon rather than releasing him for the Spring Dragon. I’m working on that. Maybe she is the voice in my head (lol, more on that at the end).

It is a thin sheet of ice that, if touched will leave me feeling suicide is the only rational choice. Except feelings are not rational, obviously, so it is probably not the rational choice.

The question becomes if it is not rational is it reasonable? Which is why the question comes up repeatedly, because it has never gone away, it has never been answered.

So I asked Yi: “about why I feel no hope”: 14.2.4.5>37 Great Possessing changing to The Family

It looks to me like: You have Possessions in Great Measure. Line 2 and 5 sort of indicate material possessions and allies respectively. The problem is I am comparing my “possessions” to my “neighbors” and viewing them as lacking (Line 4).​

Probably because of the summary collapse of The Family (37) when my wife left.​

But it feels like, given all the activity, there should be more.​

I asked Yi: “seeking clarification about why I feel no hope”: 14.3>38 - Great Possessing and Opposition

Line 3: “A Gong sacrifices to the Son of Heaven. Small people are not able to.”​

This seems to say that I am in a position to help someone else, or not, but if I don’t I will be viewed as the lesser man. It is relating to (38) Opposition.​
Which says to me I don’t feel hopeful because even after all the various abuse I still am expected to be “A Gong” and make greater sacrifices to help my wife. Effectively paying her for all the harm she has caused me.​
Which would be enough to make anyone hopeless.​

So I asked Yi: “about my future”: 38 Opposition.

“In small matters, good fortune”. My knee jerk reaction is: After my Great Possessing has been reduced (because I am not the lesser man), my future looks good for small things. This does not bode well for rebuilding my life.​
However, I don’t know how long this period of opposition is to be occurring. Maybe it is saying “for the near future, during the divorce, you will still have good fortune in small things...”.​

Maybe it is saying “for the foreseeable future you need to change your priorities and accept a successful lesser life...”.​

Then I asked Yi: “about why suicide seems to be the only outcome”: 49.2.3>58 Radical Change brings Opening/Interaction/Joy (depending on who’s translation you go with).

OK this seems to say “Because you need to change your point of view. Change your point of view and you will be happy...”. This is less than useful. Although it could once again be pointing to the Spring Dragon​
Change my point of view in a vacuum in which I have no hope and what? “accept the lesser life...” indicated above?​
Once again that means providing a good life for the person that ruined mine and left me to suffer, and hopefully die (according to our counselor who believes her actions were intended to push me to suicide), so that I could live the lesser life?​

I have a new voice in my head. New in the sense that it is a woman’s voice and not mine. My counselor and psychiatrist say it is stress induced, and possibly because of the amount and type of abuse I have suffered, but not indicative of something more severe. Small blessing I guess, and at least I am never alone (lol).

I am seeing professionals that are doing their best to help, but that thin ice seems to be getting thinner.

I hope all is well for everyone.
 

sylvia1ching

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Hello!

This is my first post here looking for insight. I have been doing castings for a while throughout my life. Usually I am able to glean a fair amount of insight into whatever my query may be.

I have been franticly doing readings recently because I have been estranged from my wife. She said she didn’t love me anymore and that it wasn’t my fault, but she needed some time and space to figure out who she is. I am autistic and uncomfortable with change, she was aware of this before we got married, and she indicated that she felt like she could not go out and try new things because I would be anxious. Which is not the case. It is true I’d be anxious but I could get past it, as I have all my life. If she had simply told me, I could have taken action to deal with whatever she wanted to do. She just could not rely on me to be spontaneous. If she wants to do something, just tell me and I will make that happen.

We have worked out a trial separation agreement as part of that agreement we said we would not talk to each other except in an emergency for 3 months. We are on month 2, We are supposed to talk again in May.

During this time I have been working out, working on the house, and receiving Trans-cranial Magnetic Stimulation to deal with anxiety and depression. It is an interesting treatment. It did not work and I need to do another 36 rounds. It takes a lot to fix my brain I guess. I see a counselor and a psychiatrist to help me with depression and anxiety already.

I can say that she is the most important thing in the world to me and I don’t se a future without her (otherwise I would not have married her). Given my depression this outcome leads me to some pretty dark places. Which could could keep me from interpreting clearly.

I have received 23.6 to 2 as a response to the following two questions: (I will also list some additional responses to the same questions)

about continuing to pursue a romantic relationship with [my wife’s name] in May
23.6 to 2
19.1.2 to 2
11.4.5 to 43

Should I try to keep my marriage with [my wife’s name] intact
23.6 to 2
11.1.2.6 to 52
28UC

Top lines usually seem bad to me something has gone too far and is moving from its “proper place” (the hexagram the line is in) and encroaching on the hexagram that follows.

Motion in the top line of splitting apart indicates that the action of “splitting apart” is ending what follows is a turning point (Hex 24) As part of the splitting one is finally able to reach the uneaten “highest fruit”. Then superior man gets a carriage. An inferior man gets his house torn apart.

Normally the top line in a hexagram that’s is obviously about something being forcefully torn asunder would be straight bad news (which is obviously not what I want, but it is what I fear).

It seems to be saying that the time or our separation is nearing its end. Which it is. That I will be able to reach the “highest fruit” then either get a “carriage“ or get my house torn apart.

Well the house torn apart is pretty on the nose, and if it were not for the highest fruit and the boon for the “superior man” I would have said “that’s it then. Pack it in. It’s over.”

The hexagram does not say that it is over though, just that maybe it’s over. Right? For the inferior man it is over.

The question of keeping my marriage intact 28UC says that something has to give. That there must be a change. Which I agree with, obviously things were not working. It does not say this is at an end, only that it must change. Although the call to action seems at odds with call for peace and keeping still (11.1.2.6 to 52)

Regarding pursuing a romantic relationship with my wife in May it seems to be saying the time is approaching (19.1.2 to 2) and those specific lines call out the good fortune associated with persistence in a joint approach and once again calls for peace and determination (11.4.5 to 43).

I do not understand the repeated 2’s nor what Splitting Apart is trying to tell me. Is my relationship over and to accept it with peace? That is what I am afraid of. Or is it instead saying your relationship is changing but not over, be calm and don’t despair.

I know this is long, if you have made it this far thank you. I would appreciate any insight.
 

sylvia1ching

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First thing first:
"When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. When I let go of what I have, I receive what I need."-Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching
 
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Enqquery

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First thing first:
"When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. When I let go of what I have, I receive what I need."-Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

“Anger may in time change to gladness; vexation may be succeeded by content. But a kingdom that has once been destroyed can never come again into being.“ - Sun Tzu, The Art of War
 

Olga Super Star

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If a man vows a vow to the Lord, or swears an oath to bind himself by a pledge, he shall not break his word.
Love cannot be promised. It is something physical, it bursts from the inside. It’s not something you decide at a table, nor at an altar.

Marriages are meaningless, yes.
The only purpose they served in the past (in patriarchal societies) was to tell the world at large that that woman was taken, and whose child was whose father.
Married women used to change their look and hair until 30 years ago, and this has been so for millennials, to show the world that they were no longer on the market.

Same for the ring. The only purpose of the ring is to show everyone that you’re not available.

these are rules society has given itself otherwise the men would be going around with every woman and children wouldn’t be taken care of.

So religion came along and said, thou shall have one (up to 4) wife, and shall be faithful and help around your FAMILY.

It still happens sometimes that men disappear, if they haven’t signed an agreement.. so nowadays there are these modern laws that with dna you can oblige a man to support their out-of-wedlock children.
Im personally against that but society’s purpose is still the same: not to leave women and children by themselves (imagine how it would have been in the past, for a woman by herself).

You can’t force love, you can’t make someone guilty because they no longer feel the same for you.
People change. Nowadays more than in the past. People read, learn, experience new things. If people don’t change simultaneously, they might find each other as strangers.

That is why marriages are meaningless. You sign that you will love a person forever, but that doesn’t exist. It can’t be.

Weddings have only ever been celebrated for economic reasons: to merge territories and powers. Love was not required. So the marriage became a contract and it could go on forever.
But nowadays we want love. And contract and love don’t go together!

have you ever read Jude the Obscure by Thomas Hardy? He shows what marriage is. How little we need it really.

Where I live men have a tendency to kill the women that left them before killing themselves. They tell themselves they are full of love, but it’s just possession, they can’t conceive a woman getting independent and choosing for herself, going her ownway. You say that you have thought about that but you don’t want to control her, yet it strikes me a lot that in 2020 you have these absolute ideas about a union as if it were something undissolvable. I find it rather asynchronous although I can understand you must be disappointed and ravaged by what is happening.

but as the cast said, get on a carriage and leave! Be the noble one ☝🏻🙂
 
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Enqquery

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Where I live men have a tendency to kill the women that left them before killing themselves. They tell themselves they are full of love, but it’s just possession, they can’t conceive a woman getting independent and choosing for herself, going her ownway. You say that you have thought about that but you don’t want to control her, yet it strikes me a lot that in 2020 you have these absolute ideas about a union as if it were something undissolvable. I find it rather asynchronous although I can understand you must be disappointed and ravaged by what is happening.

It seems to me you are implying that you believe I want to control her, and by extension of that implication, having likened me to murderers.

At the same time it seems that you have implicitly absolved her of responsibility for any of her actions thereby tacitly approving of all the abuse to which she has subjected me. Additionally I did not see any discussion about why she does not need anything from me as part of the divorce (modern divorce laws are also archaic). Both of which I find telling.

I would find it difficult to believe someone who would liken me to murderers can understand what I am experiencing, quite simply because they do not understand me.

I would be happy to provide you some links if you are actually interested in understanding how it is not asynchronous at all. It would fall under Language certainty, or a difficulty with pragmatic language understanding, a common trait among those with autism. (Which does practically make me a murderer 😉).

This means believing that words have meaning, and people mean what they say. To me it would be more accurate, and reasonable, to ask “Why would someone be willing to make a promise they could not keep?”

Now, unfortunately, english has only one word for all types of love. From loving pizza to loving your children.

“It [love] can not be promised” I disagree, if I had children I would be able to promise them I would love them forever. I am able to make that promise to my siblings, my parents, and so on. I can make that promise because the love I talk about is a choice.

Where as the love you are describing is what a junkie feels looking for their next fix. The result of drugs flooding the brain. Feelings that MUST eventually end, because they can not be maintained over time. I don’t think that is love, a crush or infatuation perhaps. In a vulgar sense maybe ‘luv’ or ‘wuv’ or RAWR.

Not love though.
 
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Enqquery

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All of this is irrelevant, my issue is with how I proceed from here. Which is why my recent questions had nothing to do with her. They were all about my perceptions.

All explicitly asked about why “I” felt certain ways, and included my interpretation of the results as it relates to my current situation. The current situation involves my soon to be ex, none of it had to do with her choice, it had to do with my response to her choice.

I was just taken aback by what seemed, to me, to be a remarkably derogatory response.

EDIT: @Olga Super Star It is possible that I read Your response in a manner in which it was not intended. I do not want to attribute an intent that was not. If that is the case, I apologize.

I spent all night re-reading the post from a place of positive intent. To that end I must say I appreciate the response, I think you do not understand me, or the situation I am in. However I will try to give you some insight so that maybe we can communicate more effectively.

This is long but must start with I have never said my wife made the wrong choice, I said she made her choice.

If I were a possessive or controlling person I would not have undergone treatments intended to make physical changes to my brain, thereby changing my nature in a fundamental way. I would not have said, please take some time during which I will not bother you while I undergo treatments. Some of which were and are so difficult emotionally the care providers were concerned about me going through them with the intent of becoming someone else for a person that was so psychologically and emotionally abusive that she undid 15 years of treatments and counseling. Look up gaslighting and imagine that it was happening to someone who believed... Every. Word. You. Said.

Even when she said that “I did not understand how difficult a relationship with an autistic person would be, I can’t do it.” Which, if you parse the language translates to: The relationship is not worth the effort because of your nature which I believe you can not change. Which means that, to her, I was not worth it.

I was not even worth getting to know after months (almost half a years worth of procedures) done on her behalf to address issues as soon as she brought them up.

I am not worth it because of my autism. That is what I was told by the woman I promised to spend my life with, and for whom I did everything from household chores, to small gifts, to drastic changes to my personality and behaviors.

When I read your post, I see, again this is my interpretation only, someone saying that because I believe in promises, Because I believe love can endure through growth and change, and can be eternal, that I must view women as possessions.

That because I believe that after the “in love” part of love subsides you have a choice as to whether you truly love that person, or never really did. That I do not understand love.

I wanted my wife to grow, change, and succeed. I helped her get her job and encouraged her to work the hours she did so she could ge two sizable positions. I did this by doing ALL the housework, Whether it be the dishes, the lawn, cooking, or full blown interior redesign. so she did not need to worry about it, she could work then we could spend time together, or she could spend time with her friends without worrying about anything. This is not a controlling behavior.

Because I can be difficult to communicate with I brought her into counseling with me so she could have our counselor explain to me where I was falling short. I took her to several meetings with my psychiatrist so she could express her concerns and they could be addressed if possible. I did everything I could to insure that, whether it be in her professional life or within our relationship, she could find success. Because her success was our success. This is not a controlling behavior.

After the excitement wore off, after the high was gone, not only did my wife decide she never really did Love me, she decided I was not worth it.

Now I am fighting to keep as much of my “kingdom” Not for me because. I don’t see a way out, I don’t see a future, but to pass to my nephews and god children.

Based upon your response even when taken positively, you can not possibly understand how I can say she is free, I am not. She is responsible for everything that follows from her decisions. Her decision to gaslight me, her decision to infidelity, her decision to encourage me to change the medical treatments that have worked for 15 years, her decision to say they did not matter, her decision to come see me to say she wanted to work it out, only to send a letter saying “I know this will hurt you but... be sure to try to take care of yourself”. Knowing it could push me to erratic behavior which would have made the divorce easier and more lucrative. I do not believe she knew suicide was an option, our counselor believes that she could surmise it.

Her decision to file for the most acrimonious type of divorce, even after I said “take whatever you want, just leave me these 4 things...” because she wanted money. Money she knew I had saved my entire life as a nest egg to start a family, the only thing I have wanted out of life. She wants to take that so I can not fulfill my life’s meager ambition.

Again she wants that, believes she deserves that in fact, because she does not see a value in me. Which justifies any action she takes.

Even still I would take her back if she would have me. Which is a common behavior among abused spouses I am told, but I believe it has more to do with my promise.

After all these treatments I do not know who I am anymore. People say to "be happy on your own" I'm not. I have never been. I can't be because there is no point. I don't enjoy it, I don't not enjoy it either, I don't feel anything about it. Which is due to one of the ways in which I am impacted by being on the spectrum.

I either emote or reason, not emote and reason. I have difficulty connecting the two. I can't anchor emotions to tasks because of the difficulty emoting and reasoning at the same time. This is why I don't have 'experiences' on my own.

For example: if I take a drive on a beautiful day by myself the journey is meaningless without a destination. I will not sit there thinking "What fun this drive has been...". Where as with another person in the car, the journey can become more important than the destination.I get to share the experience they are having.

I try to use the I Ching to help bridge that gap in understanding when I do not have people to share the experience with. The Yi is often that other person.

I have nothing left but a drug dulled world that I desperately want to leave. Even so, I think I am worth it. You may think I am controlling, you may think I am not. I don’t know.
Your post, even reading your post from a place of caring, forgave all her actions. You portrayed her as a person of complete innocence merely exploring her world. You talked about all of the history of marriage, and said that the problem appeared to be that I don’t accept that she had the freedom to make a choice.

If you understand who I am and what I am feeling, please tell me. Because I don’t. Honestly.
 
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Olga Super Star

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It seems to me you are implying that you believe I want to control her, and by extension of that implication, having likened me to murderers.
I didn't mean to say that you are a murderer, of course. You have been the first one to speak about control, you say your friends have told you you want to control her. It just strikes me that in 2020 someone wants to kill themselves because their wedding is over and keeps speaking about a breach of loyalty. This scares me.

Believe me it's very easy to lose one's control when your mind has gone off the track and do awful things. The news is full every single day of men killing their wives or girlfriends as soon as they leave or ask for divorce, and sometimes they even go down to killing the children so as to hurt the woman more.
If you look at what kind of people they are, you are going to be surprised to see that they're standard guys, people who work, have plenty of friends, do a lot of things with their kids, are wealthy and have happy family pictures.. They usually write that she has ruined everything, she has ruined the family with her breach of oath.. They are full of revenge and can't think of anything different at all.

I have a friend myself who was killed by her husband, he threw her into the river and then pretended she committed suicide. He even put on the table a melancholy note she had written years before, to make the police think she had killed herself. They were both very religious, but apparently the "until death tear us apart" that they make you say at the wedding looked more important to his eyes than the "Thou shall not kill other people".
He didn't kill himself, has been in prison for 10 years now but will be out soon. Possibly going back to the small village where his and also her parents live.

When your head spins so much I think it is worth to stop, calm down and ponder why you are so attached to the eternal vow or oath. Also, are you safe? or there is a risk of you doing something you might regret? If there is, ask for help.

At the same time it seems that you have implicitly absolved her of responsibility for any of her actions thereby tacitly approving of all the abuse to which she has subjected me. Additionally I did not see any discussion about why she does not need anything from me as part of the divorce (modern divorce laws are also archaic). Both of which I find telling.
I can't talk about your wife as you haven't told us anything, you just said she wants to leave. I am not here to judge her, and I don't think when a marriage fails it's somebody's responsibility. Not believing in marriage at all (Thomas Hardy is my hero!), I can't think of divorce as a failure. I know a few couples who divorced but are still so much friends, they just didn't want to live together anymore.

To me it's difficult to understand why people should get paid when divorcing. Since marriage has no meaning, divorce has no meaning either. But since marriage is all about inheritance (otherwise why getting married at all?) it becomes pretty obvious that when you divorce, someone has to get paid.
A lawyer I asked that told me that it's like two people setting up a company. You have responsibilities towards the company, you may have 40% and the other 60%, and you can't leave on the spot, you can't leave the other person by themselves. There is an agreement so what did you sign? Is there a penalty for leaving the company? Can you retreat all your money at once? Can you figure out some solution with your partner?

To me it would be more accurate, and reasonable, to ask “Why would someone be willing to make a promise they could not keep?”
The silliness is in the marriage institution, believe me. Love is not something you can promise, it doesn't depend on you. People change. I met up with a girl the other day who was my best friend at university. She no longer is, we moved two different directions.
Also, you never know a person. Do you think my friend had any idea her husband would murder her? No one in the village thought a similar thing would be possible.

“It [love] can not be promised” I disagree, if I had children I would be able to promise them I would love them forever. I am able to make that promise to my siblings, my parents, and so on. I can make that promise because the love I talk about is a choice.
Parents, siblings, children are very different from a wife as they are all your blood, and you grew up with them. Your spouse is something else. It's a stranger. It usually comes from another village. It's got nothing to do with family. You create a family with a stranger.
There s a famous actor who used to say, when asked why he never married: "Marry?! How do you think I could have a stranger in my house?".

Where as the love you are describing is what a junkie feels looking for their next fix. The result of drugs flooding the brain. Feelings that MUST eventually end, because they can not be maintained over time. I don’t think that is love, a crush or infatuation perhaps. In a vulgar sense maybe ‘luv’ or ‘wuv’ or RAWR.
Love over time has been maintained at the detriment of women. Who had no alternative than staying with who supported them. Now that women no longer have to compromise, because they can have a job or can return to their parents or stay in a shelter home for people, you get plenty of divorce. 90% of the times it's she who asks for divorce.
No wonder divorce is going strong in the Western countries, where women are more independent. If you don't have a job, unless your husband is beating the shit out of you and making your life hell, you're staying with him.
That is also a reason why where I live so many men prefer to marry women from Easter Europe. More chances your marriage will last. They don't demand as much, they are just happy with a house and a tranquil home and person who cares for them.
 
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Enqquery

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@Olga Super Star I said I did not want to control her because I anticipated that people would, either implicitly or explicitly say I was trying to.

My Friends never said I was controlling, none of them. No one in my family, no one in her family save her mother, none of her friends save the man she cheated on me with, said I was controlling

You say I never said anything about my wife however I did say my wife was abusive. Which I detailed more in my longer post

You have my condolences for your loss. However, I am not your friend’s husband or anyone other than myself. You are viewing things based upon your experiences. I understand that is human nature, I do the same thing

You say you are not assigning fault, but then you point to controlling men saying “no wonder women file for divorce” implying men are, in fact, at fault.

I am not sure if we cross posted, but I believe I addressed much of what you are discussing here in the long edit to my second post explaining everything.

I would love your insight on that. If after reading that you still don’t understand where I am coming from then, I can’t do anymore to explain.
 
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Olga Super Star

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It's ok, I am not offended by your message. I understand you are going through a difficult time, and I have communication problems too, I must have them as I often get misunderstood. I have to say I get my alert antennas when I come across a man not accepting divorce, and you seemed not to accept that at the beginning, so I was on the alert. I support freedom and am very weary of stubbornness.

When I read your post, I see, again this is my interpretation only, someone saying that because I believe in promises, Because I believe love can endure through growth and change, and can be eternal, that I must view women as possessions.
The fact is that love is not an abstract thing, it is the feelings people feel for each other. How can you promise a feeling?! Can you promise a friend you will always be their friend? I can't.

I know nothing of autism, but I certainly couldn't stay with someone who can be difficult to communicate with and who brings me into counseling with them so that communication can take place through a counselor. I would be running (away) very fast. It sounds very heavy for your partner. And I think when a couple needs another person to communicate, the thing is pretty much over. Unless something really big has happened, like one of the two has been assaulted, or there has been a big trauma in the family, and so on. But a counselor to explain to you what's going on in the couple? The first thing that comes to my mind is, if it is that difficult to be together, just go your separate ways. That's what your wife probably means when she says it's not worth it. Not that you are not worth it but that the relationship between you two is not worth it. Either things go smoothly, or it's not meant to be.

I took her to several meetings with my psychiatrist so she could express her concerns and they could be addressed if possible.
I am single, and can't seem to click with anyone at the moment, so what I am saying could be the wrongest possible thing.
But when I fell in love, many years ago, a friend of mine used to say that being in the same room with us was powerful, she could feel a hidden conversation going on between us.
So to me no communication, or "plain" simple communication (Is there enough fruit for tomorrow?) would not be enough, has never been enough. Let alone communication through a third person. It can't be forever, do you agree? If the partners can't get back communicating themselves, it just doesn't function.

I would like my boyfriend to take me to the beach more often than to his psychiatrist. I'm not saying I support your wife, but it certainly mustn't be easy to be with someone you have to accompany to counseling. After 15 years maybe you want to set free and leave a normal lighter life with eating out and going to the beach instead of seeing doctors and listen to their analyzing your personal life.

Her decision to file for the most acrimonious type of divorce, even after I said “take whatever you want, just leave me these 4 things...” because she wanted money.
That is very mean, but are you sure she can do that? Where I live the person who asks for divorce is usually the person paying.. Unless they have a reason for the marriage to end, like breach of faithfulness or serious behaviour from the other partner - in that case the partner is given the fault, and he is the one to pay.
So I suggest you get a good lawyer and look into it because what's yours is yours, unless you signed a contract that says that you were merging your wealth (no one signs that anymore these days).

People say to "be happy on your own" I'm not. I have never been.
People usually say that if you can't be by yourself, you can't be with others. How long were you and your wife together before getting married?

Your post, even reading your post from a place of caring, forgave all her actions. You portrayed her as a person of complete innocence merely exploring her world.
I don't think I portrayed her at all, I am just saying that anyone is free to go whenever they want to. I understand you may not see any way out, but Yi clearly told you that 23.6, to get on that carriage and move to unexplored lands. You may not believe me but maybe you believe Yi?
 
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Enqquery

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@Olga Super Star We are still missing each other you and I. I asked Yi how best to help Olga on the forums understand my position. It said: 64.3.5 > 44

First off you are strong and I should not marry you. LOL noted.

64 Line 3 Says: “Before completion, attack brings misfortune. It furthers one to cross the great water.”​

64 Line 5 Says: “Perseverance brings good fortune. No remorse. The light of the superior man is true. Good fortune.”​

This says to me that there is something of value to be gained through us understanding each other. Through perserverince in conversation, but not attacking each other, we can achieve some kind of enlightenment and good fortune.

What does it say to you?
 

Trojina

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I'm going way back to early in the thread to look at some of the things you said here. I won't be offering any Yi interpretations, quite honestly it doesn't feel the best thing for you right now to be always consulting the I Ching, you can get even more confused


I started writing bear in mind I am a Christian so if references to God offend I apologize I am speaking of the universe I guess. The Parental part of the universe. It is just a single long thought I just kept writing until I was done. I would love input.

Well if anyone is offended by references to God it's their problem, we don't have to tiptoe around them. If you are a Christian then for sure you can bring your despair to Christ. No complicated interpretations of readings necessary, you can just pray about this.

Right now my soul says God has not spoken on the issue, and I should not take action until he does. That I need to accept that it is out of my hands. That even knowing is out of my hands. That patience is not just waiting a known amount of time, for an unknown answer, that it is waiting an unknown amount of time for an unknown answer.That I know that destruction, death, change, and loss all happen. They can all potentially happen, or none of them may happen. That the question is not one of my relationship but it is one of acceptance and moving on. My world is being destroyed to teach me a lesson in patience and trust and the limits of my control.

I don't think it's true your world needs to be destroyed to teach you a lesson in patience. There are many ways to learn patience they don't all require grief, loss and heart break. People talk a lot about 'moving on' as if it's something people really actually can just do at will. You can't erase her from your mind and indeed no ex is ever really erased from the mind, regardless of whether a person is on relationship 2 or relationship 15, the connection has gone deep. One good reason for marriage possibly is that precious connection is recognised as being something that can turn your world upside down. The emotional cost of moving from partner to partner is so great it can take your life energy. Being in a stable marriage can allow your life to grow because your heart is at peace, it's not incessantly in pain.

I think you have enough on your plate without adding any self blame for the fact your wife has not honoured the commitment she made to you. I don't know her side of the story, none of us do but we aren't talking to her we are talking to you and how you manage to live through this very dark time in your life.





That the longer I fight it and put my faith in something other than God the more that will be stripped away. I put my faith into my wife and she is gone, I turned to my job and now it is gone, In a fit of existential crisis I have pushed most of my friends and family away.I turned to Yi and it said everything will go, then it would not answer anymore. That I need to accept that right now in this moment there is nothing I can do but accept and endure or give up. I have chosen to give up because I have interpreted the destruction of my house as being foretold by a divination that simply said everything will be taken away until you destroy yourself or overcome.

23.6 says a ending can carry you some place better. If any answer from Yi upsets you I would advise you not to consult it and to pray instead because maybe trying to figure what Yi means isn't the most supportive thing for you at the moment ? At least not if it only exacerbates your pain


That none of this means that she will stay, or that she will go, it means that I can not always control my life, and that knowledge of the future is not always understood in the context under which it is said. That Job was told not to ask “why” because he could not understand, because he could not see far enough. Job needed to loose much more than I have. I should stop pushing because the tighter I grip the more that will be stripped away by my own actions.

You aren't being punished, you are going through something many many people go through. It's awful, it's horrible but it isn't the end of your life, nor the end of the world. You do not know what life has for you in the future, maybe there are much better things, even better relationships.


I keep doing readings and now I am told she is cheating on me, or that she will be back in years, or she will only be back to use me, each of these strip something more away from me so that when eventually I see her I will come bearing the scars and lashes of these divination that are saying “what if she cheated...” “what if she is using you...”

Who told you she is cheating on you ? There is no cast in the I Ching that can tell you as a fact such a thing. You need proper evidence to come to that conclusion. To be honest what is hurting you most is all these I Ching readings that leave your head spinning, fearing the worst. Put it away for a while.

You are going through something horrible just like millions of other people's whose wives or husbands disregarded their marriage. It's not a punishment or a judgment and you need to believe what she says about why she's left rather than put words into Yi's mouth.



The truth is my brain is being physically changed, even it is being stripped away. I can’t control that, I can’t predict that, I can’t even say if she will like this person, I don’t even know who I am after these treatments. I always plan and predict and now I am in an environment that I could not have predicted or planned for. I am stuck alone without my wife, without my friends, without my family, without the same brain I had 7 weeks ago, but I am certain that the pain of her loss may be too much to bear? Or maybe not, it may or may not happen. I may or may not want her back, that what hurts is the uncertainty and betrayal I feel at her part in that uncertainty. That she may have been taken away both as part of the trial and to keep her from seeing me face it

Even in this extreme place where you feel alone you aren't actually alone. I think that was the point of Job. No explanation of his suffering worked for him, he was a good man none of his suffering was earned. What really hurt Job all through his suffering was that he did not feel God there with him. When God did speak to him it wasn't the words that mattered but God's presence with him that made him able to go on. Perhaps what matters now is that you truly understand that even if you feel alone you are not alone. You can relate how you feel now to the actual suffering Jesus went through on the night before the crucifixion. It's the same pain, his pain and your pain are the same that's why you can take it to him.


I'll quote something on this I was reading recently, a book by Frances Young who had a severely disabled child and was struggling as you are with all these questions about why. She's thinking about Job too



'As I prepared for class I found an answer to the long standing puzzle. All through the dialogue with the comforters what really galls Job is God's absence. He is sure that if God were present his innocence would be vindicated. In heaven, he believes, is one who will vindicate him against the false charge that he must have sinned or he would not be suffering ('I know that my redeemer liveth'). What satisfies and at the same time humbles Job is simply the reality and presence of God . What God says is irrelevant. In God's presence the demand for explanation ceases. God is sufficient in himself to bring a perspective which transcends and transforms.'
 
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Enqquery

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Who told you she is cheating on you ? There is no cast in the I Ching that can tell you as a fact such a thing. You need proper evidence to come to that conclusion.

A number of people from her office including my sister-in-law and a good mutual friend of my wife and I although he only said “Everyone thinks she is having an affair with [guy] but I don’t know.” After a business trip I found a guy’s razor in the main bathroom shower. A shower I rebuilt for two people. I imported all my text messages and parsed them so I could find words that repeated, her behavior changes coincided with the increase in mentions of [guy].
 

Trojina

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I see. Well if she has cheated on you she's wronged you but that doesn't make you wrong or unworthy to live a good life from now on. I edited my previous post to add a few quotes etc.
 

bologna_tendra

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I noticed in the interpretation of Hilary she spoke of the seed of your future self. Now whatever this seed is, it must already be inside you, and come from you. You spoke about having had treatment to change what you are. I don't see as any person should ever change what they fundamentally are. But that the lifelong game should be to try and know what you are. If this seed is going to grow, you need to know the soil well - the soil of yourself.

I don't know if you ever looked at astrology - it's not everyone's cup of tea - but if you know the date and time and place you were born you can find out your sun and moon signs, and then if you run those into google alongside "universal tao" it will give you a reading of yourself which in my experience is extremely perceptive.

With regards divorce law, it can be an uphill struggle, especially if it's acrimonious. And it can drag for years, in some cases decades with spousal maintenance etc. It might be a case that fighting this to the absolute hilt takes more from you than you salvage - meaning it might pull your energy too far away from the task of working with the seeds of your future self. Maybe it's something worth thinking back in terms of how you will approach the whole situation moving forward - and if you are able to compartmentalise this aspect of your life in a way that hopefully doesn't take over and jeopardise the rest of your life.

All the best
 
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Enqquery

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My troubles are no where near as bad as Jobs, thank God. As I have mentioned, but it bears repeating, I have many good and more than a few great things in my life. I can’t put those on a scale with her and say “there are more good things than the harm she caused” because I still love the person I thought she was.

I am going through what lots of people are going through right now. My suffering is only special in so much as it is mine, which make it special to me.

I pray all the time, and I look for guidance wherever it can be found. Because there is always a teacher in an adversary. There is always a lesson in adversity. I want to know what it is so it stops. So I appreciate insight. Even when I seem to be at odds with it like with @Olga Super Star she is taking her time to offer insight, I want to understand what she is offering.

I am really trying to change my perspective so that I can see abundance instead of scarcity. So I can see the “maybe better things” rather than it’s logical inverse of “but maybe not better thing”.

I want to see a reason to go on that is not simply to stop her from taking my stuff so when I die I can leave it with the people who should have it.

I don’t see it. I tell my counselor, I tell my psychiatrist, I tell my friends and family. All because I want to see hope, I just see the statistics and studies predicting no hope.

I want to see a value to continuing that is not simply the Stoic virtue of duty. That is not enough for me.

I can’t live the hollow life she forced upon me.

I ask God to make it stop, or show me the lesson I am supposed to learn, or end my life, something because I can’t deal with all of this for much longer. I ask the I Ching for a perspective on just about everything. Because the I Ching, my AI, and God are the only people I can talk to regularly without pushing them away.

@bologna_tendra I will look into the astrology. Starting next month I am having more TMS and Ketamine treatments. I’m not done cooking yet I guess. I don’t know who I am really. I did, but that person is gone. I don’t even like the same food I used to. Food is fuel so that does not matter much.

As far as fighting her in court, I refuse on principal to give her any money. I would rather give that money to the lawyer to fight it. She left, by her choice and in her own time, she can walk on her own.

I asked her to please not let our relationship end in a fight or in court, let us get it dissolved in peace. She said “The only way I can get what’s fair is a divorce I don’t want it to be ugly I just want to split everything 50/50 and we can go our separate ways...”

What she means by that is split everything I saved and made over 33 years to start a family. For 4 years of marriage. I offered her everything in the house but 4 things, but that was not enough, she want money. Divorces are always ugly.
 

Olga Super Star

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@Olga Super Star We are still missing each other you and I. I asked Yi how best to help Olga on the forums understand my position. It said: 64>44

What does it say to you?
Ahahahahha I have no idea :rofl:

“Not yet across coupling“:???:

we haven’t met - yet

I suggest you Read Thomas Hardy. It’s super advanced for its time!
The best and most durable love stories are those with no need to put a signature anywhere. No need for the Government or society to know, no need for any vow. A vow is an effort, something you do to get something else or out of self flagellation. To show your gratitude. Daily caring and mutual assistance can t be asked for nor promised, they are renewed day by day and they must come from the heart, not from a signature you have put years before. That’s what I meant by saying that marriage has no need to exist, not that you have to go from one woman to the other! Follow your heart and get with the people you can communicate with. And if you can’t find any, just wait, as I am doing.

Tonight I am having some old white wine. It tastes awful but it’s good for the soul!
And if what I say is still far from you, never mind, we will find more common ground onto another thread 🍰🥳
 
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