hex 4 unchanged

[dragona]

Hello all!:bows:
My first post here and am excited to share some of your thoughts and experiances with I-ching readings!
My first question relates to a friend with whom I used to spend a lot of time ...asked what will result in his relatonship with his new (female) friend? Gotten hexagram 4-unchanged...
I have read somewhere that hexagrams should be interpreted literaly if possible...but this seams it is just a learning experiance for him-nothing serious comes out of it?
And asking about someone else...I was not very cool at the time...
Anyway, I-ching is a generous in its nature so can anyone share how hex 4 relates to an possible relationship? Ty:bows:

 

[Trojina]

it says 'you don't know'

 

[pocossin]

What will result in his relationship with his new (female) friend?
4 unchanged

He needs more practice in relationship building. Hopefully he will graduate with improved skills.

 

[dragona]

Ty..as in "cannot be clear yet"?
I should add that our friendship is tru the net and that i just recently asked of his true feelings towards me and gotten 13-5, 6 into 55 (especially liked line 5; "Men bound in fellowship first weep and lament, But afterward they laugh. After great struggles they succeed in meeting."- could it suggest that real meeting is to happen?)
Asked also what will happen with our relations in the future-42,3,4 into 13
Friends forever?

 

[pocossin]

5; "Men bound in fellowship first weep and lament, But afterward they laugh. After great struggles they succeed in meeting."- could it suggest that real meeting is to happen?

It might but could suggest a meeting of minds.

 

[dragona]

Thank you for your thoughts on this and i dare say that meeting of minds already occured - my worry is wether it reached its peak since it was so intense and in plentitude that now any change makes me feel i am loosing my good friens attention because i am so in need of it...

 

[dragona]

23 unchanged-a big mess?

oh my...hexagram 23 unchanged for what will hapen with our relationship (friendship)now?...not sure how bad it will turn out to be...is it a "siege"- time to wait for bad times to blow over? keep my mouth shut and thus prevent the whole house from falling apart?:bag:
will it be a long wait if it is unchanged 23? or just forever? falling apart sounds as something gradual-and i did resent the lack of emidiate honesty
please, some advice on the most accepted resolution of this hexagram

 

[pocossin]

What will hapen with our relationship (friendship)now?
23 unchanged

To me the hexagram recommends preliminary preparation: soil needs to be broken if the relationship is to grow. That is, find more common ground.

 

[dragona]

Thank you, thought don`t know where you got that reading from...I got that image of house collapsing...yours is certainly different.
And my experiance is that i-ching mostly referes to me, my side of story. In that wiew, perhaps I culd say that hex 4 says he is acting like a teenager a bit (hormonal)-or we both are, since I meet only pouty silence now. Or soil has been broken indeed...into wasteland. Not having a good feeling about this.

 

[pocossin]

Thank you, thought don`t know where you got that reading from...I got that image of house collapsing...

Yes, I see how you could get that image.

The lower trigram is Kun, Earth.
The upper trigram is Ken, Mountain, and correlates to the hand.

Thus, working the soil. The judgment suggests you will have to wait this one out:

Splitting Apart. It does not further one
To go anywhere.

 

[dragona]

literature

Yes, that is how WIlheim gives it...and it may be a long wait, since I am not the one trying this time.
Btw, I use Wilheim&Baines found on the net andCarol K. Anthony`s book, some Tonante and an local quirky author. Using clear head would be the best tthing, though.
Thank you again.:bows:

 

[dragona]

it ain`t over till it`s over

Back wih another question on the subject of how will this situation with my friend unravel?
(Tired of the silence )
Got 7.3 into 46...someone here interpreted that 3rd line as an need of casting dead burdon off and if holding a grudge is to be considered as that burdon, it certainly is so.
But in light of a former result, not sure that i am to act.
Hex 46 seams to be a very positive one but as outcome it confuses me when 2 hexagrams are very different in nature. If wiewing 1st as diagnostic and 2nd as prognostic (or "how it will play off"), will we gradually progress back to normal, "ascend step by step" as Yi Jing, Oracle of the Sun by LiSe Heyboer indicates?
Or throw this burdon away and leave the friendship that has perhaps died alredy?
I lack the experiance of reading the difference even...but knowing the man...feels it may not be over yet. This is hard to appraise...perhaps sticking to one author interpretations alone would be easier?

 

[anemos]

there is a thread about 7.3 with many interesting contributions

hope it helps

 

[dragona]

Ty, but i have red almost all of these posts before i posted this last reading....
I ended sayin:"The ball is in yor corner now." I got silence...not even a "Happy birthday"

 

[chingching]

did you literally say "The ball is in your corner now." to this person? because if someone said that to me, even if in the nicest way, I think I would feel pressured into making the next move/communication and thus I would stay silent.

7.3 says the wrong person is leading at the moment, or things aren't being run correctly, the corpses slow the wagon down, its not the right strategy.

Change your tactics. If you want to talk to someone then talk to them, if they want to talk to you they'll answer.

But I guess taken as the extra baggage meaning also, when you do speak to them make sure you've let go of the angry face beforehand.

 

[dragona]

Yes, i have said that in the end. But i said something nice before that too
For me it simply ment that it is for him to decide how and if to procede, since i felt i was denied of a crucial info that sets course for our future communications. If a friend wont tell you something straight, then he has his motifs for acting that way even thus making you feel bad because you did not get hints perfectly right . Pride is valid, principles too - up to the point of useless stuborness - i am like that too, when i get angry.

"7.3 says the wrong person is leading at the moment, or things aren't being run correctly, the corpses slow the wagon down, its not the right strategy." - is that your interpretation of the line or there is such an exact test?

But I hear you, and I think it is a good clear reading you got. i just think it is up to him to show some good will - perhaps i showed too much before. It is very late, so i may be talking unclearly and too much. Thank you again for your clear reading :bows:

 

[anemos]

Dragona,

I almost posted yesterday what CC says but lost my post and went to bed.

7.3 says the wrong person is leading at the moment, or things aren't being run correctly, the corpses slow the wagon down, its not the right strategy.

Change your tactics. I

I haven't get many times 7.3 but its a line concerned me for a long time. Its a thing still in process but till now, to me , is exactly what CC says, literally and figurative.

fwiw, i got twice this line for the same matter. Once 7.3 and then 7.2.3. and help me understand better that the leader on charge at the moment wouldn't help me to ascent(46)

i'm not sure if i have understand well the background of your questions, but perhaps 7.3 says to you to rethink what is going on and how you respond to the situation. perhaps the ball is in his field but that doesn't mean you aren't also in the game.

silence could mean he doesn't care or he cares and just want to cool a bit. Anger ( his /yours or both of you) is not a good counselor during a crisis situation and 7.3 highlights it, imo.

 

[chingching]

oh no, its me paraphrasing wilhelm and some interpretations from the thread anemos put a link to. I should really mention that, just sometimes I'm only on here quickly, sorry.

perhaps the ball is in his field but that doesn't mean you aren't also in the game.

nicely put anemos.

 

[dragona]

Thank you for those insightfull readings.
I asked because it was good-not to split hairs, Chingching .-)
Just not sure who is the wrong man in the lead atm and my previous answer was hex 23 so i decided to stay put. Nothing is happening and I fel left out (I am). Really not sure i should be the one to try and i know he won`t untill i insist (something simillar happened once before). Insisting is thing of a bad taste, imo.
That opens another question: what to do when you think you`re not in sync with the reading you get?
C. Anthony says: "wait..it will come to you." But does one need to break it or follow the reading without second guessing it? I think I-Ching is never wrong, btw...only people cannot interpret the answer correctly .-)

 

[dragona]

"...the leader on charge at the moment wouldn't help me to ascent(46)"
just to let you know that this really seams to be the case here, Anemos :bag:
silence speaks

 

[anemos]

i'm sorry to hear that.

beck to your reading. One way to read is "how this relationship will advance ( 46) answer: by 7.3 ." I think the ball is still in your field. some reading are a bit static , like saying this is it. I don't see this reading as a static one.

i'm sure you have read the 46 texts but repeating them here just in case you have miss something. It happens to me many times. I phrase even a small passage appears like for nowhere , lol

THE JUDGMENT

PUSHING UPWARD has supreme success.
One must see the great man.
Fear not.
Departure toward the south
Brings good fortune.

The pushing upward of the good elements encounters no obstruction and is
therefore accompanied by great success. The pushing upward is made
possible not by violence but by modesty and adaptability. Since the individual
is borne along by the propitiousness of the time, he advances. He must go to
see authoritative people. He need not be afraid to do this, because success is
assured. But he must set to work, for activity (this is the meaning of "the
south") brings good fortune.

THE IMAGE

Within the earth, wood grows:
The image of PUSHING UPWARD.
Thus the superior man of devoted character
Heaps up small things
In order to achieve something high and great.

Adapting itself to obstacles and bending around them, wood in the earth
grows upward without haste and without rest. Thus too the superior man is
devoted in character and never pauses in his progress.

perhaps you can take advantage of those silent times and think again the whole situation. Honestly I haven't a clear idea of the situation so I can't say much. Form me the answers lay at the questions and the surrounding. You say your relationship is friendship, but it seems for you is something more. Does he know that ? have you told me clearly ? I again sorry if i make wrong assumptions)

"One must see the great man." says Hex 46. Einstein said “ we can’t solve a problem from the same level it was created” . Perhaps its time to see the great man . inwards-outwards , you know better.

 

[dragona]

Thank you for your sencere efforts in advising me, the messy minded one, atm.
Well, I try not to lament here too much about the background of my questions-not the right place and also kinda uneasy feeling. I just wish I was more confident and concentrated and cooled down so I could perhaps share some thoughts with others, not just ask for help here.

It was/is one of those net friendships that arrise sudennly and you have so much in common and you`re constantly together, partly to share your problems, partly to kill the time (for months).
It was very intense and kind and helpful so it is a total turn arround, especially since we both still have our problems quite unsolved and he keeps his friendships, as I do. Stuborness is causing this, imo, and I pushed a bit... but still, silence is not the way to go with me ;-)
Or 23 unchanged has not jet run its course? How can we tell when the time is righ when in this situation?

Can you say how your situations resolved-from that reading you got that I responded to above? "..the leader on charge at the moment wouldn't help me to ascent(46)"?

 

[anemos]

Can you say how your situations resolved-from that reading you got that I responded to above? "..the leader on charge at the moment wouldn't help me to ascent(46)"?

you are welcome

I'm the OP of the link i gave about 7.3. The reason I haven't post any feedback is because it ain't over yet.

I can only talk for the literal side of that reading. ascending was hard and impossible and i had to change it and move towards a better position. But the solution in hand had many risks. so i had to choose between "stay and suffer" or "go for it, move on" , albeit no guarantees . I found very comforting the line says "fear not" at 46. I made my mind when I decided that I didn't want that painful situation any more. I had the support of some special friends which were by me before during and after the process of changing the leader

I found it very nice you have a like-minded friend to share thoughts , feelings , experiences. if i'm allowed to say that ( sorry for the liberty to do that) be his friend and let him be. If he is happy with his new girlfriend ( is it an affair?) be happy for him. If you can't ponder on the reasons. perhaps it would be helpful to talk open about it with him, if you haven't already.

I had an ex boyfriend that one time , pretty explicit, asked me to choose between him and a friend. He lost me at the same second. when my best friend broke up with her boyfriend that he had become and still is a very good friend of mine, i asked them not to put me in a position to choose between them. Once, when i spend more time with him than with her, because he and I worked together and hung out after the office , my friend told me " i feel i'm losing you". That let us the space to talk about it. we are still friends

 

[dragona]

I have initiated the talk today, just cause the absurdity of the situation was too great to indure.
He wants to move on with our friendship, but i fear this may happen again since he won`t accept to his errors or change anything about his ways. Not sure how to procede-it just gave a headache that is still present.
(just to let you know

 

[dragona]

:bows:I am not happy, not happy at all...seams I have invested too much emotionaly in this friendship, but cannot mannipulate it away with equal ease as the other side...so asked: how will X`s new romantical friendship affect our friendship?
Hex 33.2 into 44
But...
"Thus the line confirms
what is said in the Judgment: "In what is small" — here equivalent to "in the
inferior man" — "perseverance furthers." (Wilheim)
What/who is small here?
And..
"It is time to leave in a hurry. He knows he cannot take everything with him. Alas, he has a fine thing he must leave behind. A good thing is hard to come by these days and he knows a good thing when he sees one. It disgust him so to think so of his wonderful thing in hands of inferior people, so he makes his thing inaccesible, that it may be there upon his return. It makes him feel so secure to know that his thing is secure. But he has to tie it well and to tie it to something immobile:those loose ends are also good handles. And maybe he ough not to make it look precious. This may not be much of a problem, until the costs of his worries exceedes the worth of a thing, or unless he makes his thing so secure he deprives himself of its use. Too much insurrance may show too little perspective. And none of this is freedom." (B. Hatcher)

Now, this speaks to me...but cannot be sure who/what is whose "fine thing"?

Some interesting threads here in shared readings...hard to denote to whom what part of the text relates-guess situation is still new, but I am expected to suck it up quietly. He makes it hard for me to find my place in this new born situation (feels as if I am pushing my way in), so I am thinking of abandoning it.:bag: