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Hex 4 - Youthful Folly

discordia

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Hello :)

I'd like to know if anyone has had a similar experience to what I have had recently regarding Hex 4.

Anxious about a situation, I did many readings asking about various aspects of it.

Suddenly, the readings got more odd/random seemingly, more negative. Then Hex 4 came up.

The first recourse to divintation is to show sincerity by actually doing something with it, rather to continue asking, of course.

I have been chastened, and I no doubt deserved to be.

It has made me wonder, though: has anyone had this same situation come up with Hex 4?

Thanks in advance for any response.

*hugs*
 

ginnie

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Pestering

Yes, the IC sometimes seems like an actual person who might get irritated by being pestered.

Sometimes there are warnings that the dreaded hex 4 might be coming. For example, if I get hex 24, then the Yi is advising me to rest and recuperate.

If I ignore the 24, I might get hex 52, which means Stop! That's pretty clear.

But when we are beginners we do not know, and so we might press on. It is never advisable to ask questions about things far into the future, for example. It is wise to confine the activity of one's mind only to what is immediately before us: this month, this very day.

You might be interested to go back over your questions and the responses and see where the Yi was counseling you to "cool it" and think about the responses you had already gotten, instead of asking more questions. ;)
 
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Hello All,

totally agree re hex 4 typically meaning "enough already"... Barbra, your observation on hex 24 is a very insightful one - I reckon I may have ignored a 24 before I got my "Youthful Folly" :eek: I'll have to watch out for them in future.

Funny this, came across this post on hex 4 cos it sounded familiar :blush:, but in addition - couldn't help but agree with Barbra's point that the IC does not suffer the "if A and B and C, then what?" types of questions about very distant future with many variables still up in the air. I've noticed that when I try to "pressure" the IC with long-term questions, it totally balks. Not always with hex 4, but sometimes just starts being well negative.Nice to know I'm not the only one!;)

Best wishes:)
 

Leracy

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'i've just received 4.6 => 7 in response to a question about my business life.

I asked about a project which I do find exciting. My working life has been awful for the last couple of years, largely brought about by ill health. Finally at the end of last year a glimmer of light appeared, which is what I was asking about.

This answer really, really hurts, like a hard slap across the face. Or am I being too negative?
 
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meng

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'i've just received 4.6 => 7 in response to a question about my business life.

I asked about a project which I do find exciting. My working life has been awful for the last couple of years, largely brought about by ill health. Finally at the end of last year a glimmer of light appeared, which is what I was asking about.

This answer really, really hurts, like a hard slap across the face. Or am I being too negative?

Yes, you're being unduly negative. The idea of 4.6 is simply that of self discipline. It doesn't lay blame on anyone, and it advises that the receiver not lay blame on anyone. But self-discipline, as shown by 7, is required to move past the not knowing or uncertain stage.
 

Leracy

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Thank you! I took myself off to read (and listen to) Hilary's commentary on 4 after I posted on this thread and realised that 4 can also represent what other people say to you. I've had a lot of people telling me why I couldn't do all sorts of things recently and now realise that what they are really saying is that THEY can't do it.

Thank you Meng :bows:
 
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meng

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Ann, interesting. So perhaps your head-speak was harboring some resentment toward those who would discourage you from venturing? That, to me, would makes lots of sense.

If I may offer a little advise? Don't listen to anyone who tells you what you are not capable of. Chances are, as you have said, they are the ones who have psyched themselves out of being able to do it. One good thing about 4 is, he/she doesn't yet know what is not possible. ;)
 

Leracy

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Meng - yes!

Thinking about that reading, the project I have in mind - which is to create an online outlet for the intellectual property I've built up over the last 7 or 8 years - is a great big step into the unknown. So, if we take 4.6 as being self discipline and 7 as being marhsalling all your resources, then the reading pretty much sums it all up - doesn't it? Thanks again!
 

ginnie

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Chastisting the ignorant ones

The Yi is saying that if your aim is to chastise the ignorant ones, then it will not succeed. If your aim is other than this, then it might succeed. Line 6 is often a warning of some kind.

The general idea of hex 4 is that immaturity, ignorance, or foolishness must be dealt with gently and patiently. Otherwise, in focusing on the errors of others, you'll be putting yourself in the wrong.

The father who is always punishing his teenage son too harshly, for example, would get 4.6>7, which indicates that the father should stop focusing on what he sees as his son's mistakes and have more self-discipline himself.

The Yi does have its own philosophy, which may differ in many ways from the thought of these times we are living in now. I have had to personally hash out all these issues for myself, because some of my writings have been published. I hope this helps a little. :bows:
 

Leracy

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Thank you Barbra

When I asked the question, I was completely open and wasn't thinking about anyone else at all. The idea about other people was only in response to Meng's answer.

However, your post is very timely. My wish to create an online business will need a lot of tact, and therefore the warning is very useful.

Edit - just wondering - I do 'beat myself up' a lot - is it telling me to stop?

Thank you

:bows:
 

knotxx

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it has meant that for me sometimes, certainly

and oh man yes I have gotten 4 to mean "you can't understand this now so stop asking"--usually because I am too wrought up. I love 52 in that context, which I think means not just STOP but "stop and get centered and clear and calm."
 

ginnie

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Editing

The Yi is indicating that in your content you are striking out at the wrong people, people who are/were simply ignorant or perhaps foolish, and if you are indeed doing that, then the result will most likely be negative. 4.6 has to do with content, unfortunately, not with editing.

If I got 4.6>7 I would take that really seriously as a writer. I think you were right in your first reaction. It is definitely not the green light you were hoping for. :bows::bows:
 

lucia

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Barbra
"The Yi is indicating that in your content you are striking out at the wrong people, people who are/were simply ignorant or perhaps foolish, and if you are indeed doing that, then the result will most likely be negative. 4.6 has to do with content, unfortunately, not with editing.

If I got 4.6>7 I would take that really seriously as a writer. I think you were right in your first reaction. It is definitely not the green light you were hoping for."

hmm....

Hex 4 is often about inexperience and as this is a new venture that is perhaps pertinent and speaking as a writer I would say that if you start viewing your 'audience' as ignorant or foolish - you are stuffed because that's a rather patronising view.

And meanwhile, also speakiing as a writer editing is very much part of the content in fact one without the other = bad writing!

Lucia
 
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Trojina

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'i've just received 4.6 => 7 in response to a question about my business life.

I asked about a project which I do find exciting. My working life has been awful for the last couple of years, largely brought about by ill health. Finally at the end of last year a glimmer of light appeared, which is what I was asking about.

This answer really, really hurts, like a hard slap across the face. Or am I being too negative?

Uum there is no slap across the face here...the whole point is that theres no advantage slapping anyone and that includes yourself. My take on it would be 'don't beat yourself up for not knowing, be patient'. I got 4.6 a few weeks back anxious about seeing someone in authority whom I was afraid would make a negative judgement about me. Intuitively i saw the answer as 'hes on your side, hes not interested in being punitive but helping' (not very flattering to be cast as the ignorant youth but i got it :rofl: ) which turned out to be the case. So I think it can refer to ones own attitude the world is going to punish one for not doing better.....thats not so here
 

Trojina

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4.6 says don't do this :duh: it will give you a headache
 

lucia

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Trojan
"4.6 says don't do this it will give you a headache"

yes (giggle at emoticon ) and I like what Lise says...

" One passes on what one is, a balanced teacher makes stable minds, arbitrariness rears to unseemliness. The same applies to your mind and body: do not force your muscles and brain to do something, just show them the way."

Lucia
 

Leracy

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Good grief, what have I started? :eek:

What I have started to WRITE is a book about a specific business area which can be a minefield. I have been running classes in this area for several years and the classes have always been well received. It's intended as a very straightforward book, and the last thing I ever saw it doing was chastising or patronising anyone. However, it does refer to pitfalls in this area, based on my very real experience, and my aim is for people to find the whole thing easier and avoid the pitfalls.

From the different replies here, it looks like this reading can be interpreted as:

Don't touch with bargepole
Treat yourself more kindly
You've got the whole thing wrong

Now what??? :confused:
 

lucia

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Ann

you haven't started anything but a thread and the best ones offer a range of views which I usually find distill into something useful after a bit of further reading/study and mulling. Sometimes people "mills and boon" or "fox news" hexes - they see them on the surface and sensationalise them. (I can do that on my own ...) But if you hang around here a while, you'll learn to spot that a mile/km away! That's not to say there aren't sharp warnings in the ching but 4.6 ain't one of them. I chipped in only to offer another view of 4 as inexperience (and it can be students) but no comment on your reading (because I think Meng and Trojan have done that very well)- and also a response to Barbra's view about writing. Hence the quote has inverted commas and Barbra's name above it!! Look again. I then added a quote from Lise to add to Trojan's comment. Relax there's nothing dire in your hexes!

Meng
"Yes, you're being unduly negative. The idea of 4.6 is simply that of self discipline. It doesn't lay blame on anyone, and it advises that the receiver not lay blame on anyone. But self-discipline, as shown by 7, is required to move past the not knowing or uncertain stage.

Trojan
"Uum there is no slap across the face here...the whole point is that theres no advantage slapping anyone and that includes yourself. My take on it would be 'don't beat yourself up for not knowing, be patient'. I got 4.6 a few weeks back anxious about seeing someone in authority whom I was afraid would make a negative judgement about me. Intuitively i saw the answer as 'hes on your side, hes not interested in being punitive but helping' (not very flattering to be cast as the ignorant youth but i got it ) which turned out to be the case. So I think it can refer to ones own attitude the world is going to punish one for not doing better.....thats not so here"

"4.6 says don't do this it will give you a headache"

Ann
"However, it does refer to pitfalls in this area, based on my very real experience, and my aim is for people to find the whole thing easier and avoid the pitfalls.

That's a great aim and you've got real experience to base it on - do your mulling with that in mind - 7 is about marshalling your resources - your very good resources - by the sounds of it. And I read 4.6 as self discipline too but not the beat yourself up kind and part of that self disipline is not to give in to negative thoughts no?

No-one here has "the answers" only you have those, but there are some people who have good long term experience and struggle to go deeper than surface level with the ching and when I post my questions I usually find they add something or help me step back and get a clearer view and I am grateful for that. But at the end of the day - I "read" my hexes no-one else can because they're not me!

When Trojan said don't do this she meant "don't beat yourself up" (that's why I laughed at her emoticon).

Ann
"Don't touch with bargepole
Treat yourself more kindly
You've got the whole thing wrong"

I don't see any of that in the replies to your question - and to be blunt I think Barbra is straying a little in the direction of "fox news" but I was trying to avoid saying that. I know how self doubt can plague a writer I've been there, but I had excellent professional training and part of that was about knowing your "audience" and another part of my training was about getting on with the job and not letting one's mind sidetrack you with doubt. A writer has to learn to be self critical without being self-indulgent no? Tricky balance until you start to get good positive professional feedback.
Just a thought but you could offer sample chapters to some of your former students as "work in progress" for comment on their 'readability and usefullness'.
Meanwhile, get writing lady 'cos it sounds to me like you've a great project.

Lucia
 

Trojina

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Good grief, what have I started? :eek:



Don't touch with bargepole
Treat yourself more kindly
You've got the whole thing wrong

Now what??? :confused:

Well to be fair the beauty of the Yi is the answer is suited for the querant ie you, and the querant only so what you make of the meaning is in the end up to you. An answer can look very different according to the circumstance..all people do here is chip in to give their views and experience. At best I guess we might aim for a general principal which as i see would be for 4.6 'Don't be too harsh with others, don't be too harsh with self or even others won't be too harsh with you'. When I was a little kid at school we were still punished for not understanding maths...I don't mean anything approaching wilful disobedience just for not understanding. How teachers thought shouting at small children would help them learn is beyond me. They just get more tense and scared and can't think straight..hardly an atmosphere conducive to learning. So i think the thing with 4.6 is any mistake is truly down to not knowing better, not really fully informed wrong doing as one might find in hex 21. In the end don't you take the image in the line given which is fairly clear ie 'one does not punish an ignorant youth but keeps harm from him' and apply that image to the situation you asked the question about yourself, using added input from people here as you wish.

Anyhow I give up

As Luis once famously remarked "The Yi is not a team sport" or something like that. :D
 

Trojina

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crossed posts with Lucia, i think we said similar things
 

Sparhawk

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As Luis once famously remarked "The Yi is not a team sport" or something like that. :D

Oh boy... I can retire now. I've reached the 6th line (of 23??). I'm starting to being quoted. :D
 

lucia

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Oh boy... I can retire now. I've reached the 6th line (of 23??). I'm starting to being quoted. :D

Hijo de puta Luis (ja ja) you've strayed over here....

Meanwhile, would that be ripe fruit or rotten fruit?

Lucia
 

Leracy

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:eek:

Thank you, all of you for your responses. A couple of things I should explain

I do have a lot of professional training in writing and communication - and most certainly will be asking 'trusted others' to vet what I write. The bit that resonates from all of this though is what Lucia says about

" And I read 4.6 as self discipline too but not the beat yourself up kind and part of that self disipline is not to give in to negative thoughts no?"

I had had a real attack of the heeby jeeby 'what if it doesn't work' wobblies when I asked that question. Looks like I got a pretty straight answer, doesn't it??? :bag:

Looks like the querent has to watch their own mental attitude to the answer.

I can't thank you all enough for your answers, your patience and your good humour!

:bows::bows::bows:
 

Leracy

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Well to be fair the beauty of the Yi is the answer is suited for the querant ie you, and the querant only so what you make of the meaning is in the end up to you. An answer can look very different according to the circumstance..all people do here is chip in to give their views and experience. At best I guess we might aim for a general principal which as i see would be for 4.6 'Don't be too harsh with others, don't be too harsh with self or even others won't be too harsh with you'. When I was a little kid at school we were still punished for not understanding maths...I don't mean anything approaching wilful disobedience just for not understanding. How teachers thought shouting at small children would help them learn is beyond me. They just get more tense and scared and can't think straight..hardly an atmosphere conducive to learning. So i think the thing with 4.6 is any mistake is truly down to not knowing better, not really fully informed wrong doing as one might find in hex 21. In the end don't you take the image in the line given which is fairly clear ie 'one does not punish an ignorant youth but keeps harm from him' and apply that image to the situation you asked the question about yourself, using added input from people here as you wish.

Anyhow I give up

As Luis once famously remarked "The Yi is not a team sport" or something like that. :D


That's exactly the experience I had in school! And part of what I am writing about is the atmosphere that needs to be created in order that people can function well in a certain business situation, and how to handle the pressures that lead to the wrong atmosphere being created.

Thank you for your input Trojan, I really do appreciate it :bows:.
 

Trojina

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Oh boy... I can retire now. I've reached the 6th line (of 23??). I'm starting to being quoted. :D

I'd see it more as 53.6 except instead of white feathers floating down in your case it would be your barrell. A transcending Luis soars to the heights leaving behind vestiges of his wisdom (and his barrell :rofl:)
 

Sparhawk

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A transcending Luis soars to the heights leaving behind vestiges of his wisdom (and his barrell :rofl:)

That means I'll be soaring, butt-naked, with everyone looking up at me?? Brrrr.... That's a nightmarish sight... :rofl:
 

ginnie

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The I Ching for Writers

There's a book that's sometimes helpful called "The I Ching for Writers" by Sarah Jane Sloane, published in 2005 by New World Library. This morning I read what she wrote under 4.6, but I did not find it to be clear. It sounded rather disciplinary, as if she were wagging her finger at the writer.

Something needs to be changed, but what is that? As is usual in the case of getting hex 4, something remains hidden.

Using the Yi for feedback on a large body of written material would just take too long. I think Lucia has made the most constructive suggestion, about offering sample chapters to former students for feedback. :):bows::cool:
 

Leracy

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Barbara, thank you.

I was unable to be online for a few days and missed your last post. I'm going to carry on with my project because I was actually interviewed by a professional magazine yesterday as a 'subject matter expert' :eek: . However, I will do so in the spirit of 4 'not knowing' and treating the whole thing as a venture into unknown territory. And will take advice along the way.

Thank you very much everyone :bows:
 

Leracy

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Just in case anyone's interested, I thought i'd tell you what happened today.

I went to a meeting about the project discussed here. The meeting was very positive - more so than I thought it would be, and there were some great ideas for the writing project I discussed, particularly with how it can be produced using diverse media. I approached the meeting very much in the spirit of 4 'not knowing' and treated line 6 as 'stay positive, don't beat yourself up and listen to what others say - they know more than you do'.

So when I came home, I asked 'where am I now?'

And got 49 1.3.5 => 16

Wow!
 

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