hex. 54 (Memorizing the I Ching)

[rosada]

54.4
Nine in the fourth place means:
The marrying maiden draws out the allotted time.
A late marriage comes in due course.

The girl is virtuous. She does not wish to throw herself away, and allows the customary time for marriage to slip by. However, there is no harm in this; she is rewarded for her purity and, even though belatedly, finds the husband intended for her.
-Wilhelm

 

[rodaki]

hello everyone,

not a comment about 54.4 this one, just some thoughts on the hex. as a whole

I think 54 could be a case of apprenticeship, a big learning experience we all go thru
Speaking in girlie terms, it is a kind of 'playing house' with what is found in our circumstances (which honestly, can be quite fun and harmless unless we're playing with the good china!)
it also reminds me of 20.2 (and I do think 20 is what starts after we go through 4, so still, a learning experience)

a couple of expressions that it brings to mind are
"bound to": bound to obligation, tradition, bound to mistakes (that's a favourite! ), to our inner tendencies, "good" or "bad", and
"getting carried away": by enthusiasm, emotion (again, constructive or destructive), impulsivity or compulsion and anything else that might carry us away

wisdom, no, I can't see that, except when we get out of 54 and to the Blind(ing) Light, the blatant truth of 55 . .

Rosada's linking of 53.6 to 54 also made me think of the idea of 'fallen angel', but not in it's devilish view, more like that of that german movie "Wings of Love", where an angel has to fall to earth to escape the unattainability of Love

and last but not least, a nice radio-synchronicity:
from Deep Purle, "Child In Time"

Sweet child in time youll see the line
The line thats drawn between the good and the bad
See the blind man shooting at the world
Bullets flying taking toll
If youve been bad, lord I bet you have
And youve been hit by flying lead
Youd better close your eyes and bow your head
And wait for the ricochet

:bows:
rodaki

p.s.: oh oh and for 54.4, Martin's post in the Open Space thread
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=7712

 

[jilt]

Dear Rodaki,

I think 54 has to do with role-playing. As long as you do your thing according to the role that is attributed, things go well and affection can be shared. As soon as someone drops out of the role the mores come into play. The exchange is lake, the mores is thunder (authority).
There is a very strong ritual aspect (c.q. the traditional mores) in play to channel the affections and emotions.
Because affections and emotions are channeled so much you can evoke a catalyzing effect: a small unit (lake) that is not affected sets a strong whole (thunder) in motion, just like in chemistry. I think that is refering to the cyclic nature of 54.
In hex 53 you see the engagement, in 54 the bride/ the person who undergoes the ritual, and in 55 you see the king/ritual specialist/the one in command who is executing the ritual.

 

[rosada]

First just want to thank Ravenstar for her ideas about 54 and the tie ins with the second and third house in astrology. This got me thinking about how 2nd/3rd houses can be about creating one's own world and then how you connect with the world around you and 54 can be seen as about how one has their own idea of how things are and then the test that comes when you try to maintain your vision even as you connect with the perspectives of those around you.

Also had some thoughts after reading Mikes reference to the t.v. show where the fellow would try to escape his fate by committing suicide only to discover he really wanted to come back and try again and then oops, couldn't take it, 'nother suicide, then back again etc. Yeah. That fits in with what I was thinking about each hexagram taking us a little bit further in our ability to hang in there, not give up, quit, commit suicide, until finally with Gradual Progress we get to the top of the world and join with another perspective and guess what? It's not like anything we had envisioned at all. But 54 tells how to survive even this.

Oh phooey, not done but gotta run. More thoughts later.

P.S. I'm thinking 54 is right up there with 44!

 

[rosada]

54.3 describes the maiden not being able to be patient and 54.4 is just the opposite, she is able to hang in there until she connects with the husband that is right for her. Could this mean that on a psychological level when we enter situations that are foreign and confusing if we can just suspend judgement for a bit, ultimately things fall in place?

 

[frank_r]

Welcome back, Janice. Missed you a while.

In 54 we are almost at the end of the cycle that started in 47. 55 is the end and the beginning of a new cycle, the last one.
Here in 54.4 we are at the most earthly heavenly line, the line of the heart. thunder changes to trigram earth and nucleur trigram water is also changing to earth. So the upper core is changing to hexagram 2.
So here the only connection is with earth itself. So there is no real personal perspective.
Here we let the time go by, we don't act. We only feel in our heart what is happening.
We can only feel connection when there is detachment.

Because this line has no connections with other lines and is not correct(it is yang on a yin place). It is very isolated, but it will have the contact when the time is right.
And because this line changes to 19 it goes back in history and it feels with whom it had a connection in his heart before.

In 54.4 there is also the change from secondary wife/concubine(this was the case in the lower trigram), to the bride. So in the upper part we come in the more conscious phase as opposite to the more unconcious phase from the lower trigram.
With the change in the third line to 34 there is here a change to 19. There is a strong relation between the concubine of the third line and the bride in the fourth. They change places, the concubine has the power but she waits she limps further, closes her eye and is does not force the issue.
But the bride in line 4 shows real leadership and is waiting for the right time to step forward. This line gets already a glimps what will change in hexagram 55. In 54 the Zhou where still happy to serve the Shang because they knew that in 55 the change would come. (parts from the book Yijing wondering from Jane Schorre and Carinn Dunne).

When the third line sets aside her ambition and would accept the longer time that the fourth line needs to step in the marriage. Then there is the change to 11, harmony. Then there can be a good marriage,
But this will not be easy because line three is a yin line on a yang spot and it is not easy to judge for the unconsciousness what is right for reality.

Frank

 

[rodaki]

Dear Rodaki,

I think 54 has to do with role-playing. As long as you do your thing according to the role that is attributed, things go well and affection can be shared. As soon as someone drops out of the role the mores come into play. The exchange is lake, the mores is thunder (authority).
There is a very strong ritual aspect (c.q. the traditional mores) in play to channel the affections and emotions.
Because affections and emotions are channeled so much you can evoke a catalyzing effect: a small unit (lake) that is not affected sets a strong whole (thunder) in motion, just like in chemistry. I think that is refering to the cyclic nature of 54.
In hex 53 you see the engagement, in 54 the bride/ the person who undergoes the ritual, and in 55 you see the king/ritual specialist/the one in command who is executing the ritual.

hi Bert,

hmm, whole new aspect for me what you are opening up
although I'd like to see 54 as more free than it is -me no like strictly set rules!lol!- it's true that it seems to come up in cases governed by such set rules -are these the rituals you mention? I've had it in case of contracts for example or agreements between parts, and even when there are no signed papers involved, the rules feel very much set, I guess due to an inner sense of propriety . .

rodaki

 

[jilt]

Hi Rodaki,

Any set of strict rules that gouverns our conduct (wether you like it or not) is accompanied by ritualistic behaviour, like signing documents, burning candles, paying fees, saying prayers, elaborate greetings, bowing, cleaning, office-work, offerings, setting scedules and clocks and oing time-mangement (things have to be done by appointment, peoplbe must be brought together in a specified context.
Ritual here is rather loosly defined as behaviour that helps us to switch between domains in life. Those domains can also be cognitive/in our mind and soul. Just think about crossing a border as a rutual, "a rite de passage", but that there are also borders in social life, with stratifications (status-things), age-groups, possesions etc.
Actually, whole bookshelves are filled with this subject in anthropology, psychology ans sociology.
e.g. try the classic "the process of ritual" from Turner or Van Gennep about "rites de passage"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rites_of_passage

this looks very abstract at first glance, but take e.g. a contract for a job. In that contract is defined what you do and what you don't and what you get paid. When you start doing things that you are supposed not to do, wyou cross the line and get fired: You behave according a strict set of rules and you are nice to the hand that feeds you. Sometimes you even have to do things you don't like at all, you even have moral problems with. But when you protest, you will lose your job. That is typically line 2. In line 3 you don't care at all anymore, as long as you get paid or have a position near the authority, the upper hex, you do everything that is desired from you.

 

[rosada]

The state of mind that leads to drawing out or the allotted time indicates a desire to wait for something before going.

Of the lines of the upper and lower trigram, only the fifth and the second line stand in relationship. But while the other two lines in Tui, being in the trigram of pleasure, also seek a marital connection (although by a detour around the second line), the lines of the upper trigram that are not bound by the relationship of correspondence move away from the idea of marriage. The present line, besides having no correspondence in the lower trigram, is not in the proper place 9a strong line in a weak place) and is in the center of the nuclear trigram K'an, danger. Hence it holds back from marriage and waits for conditions to change before it undertakes anything - the danger being eventually surmounted by movement (Chen). But the new situation begins only after the present cycle of events has come to an end.
-Wilhelm

 

[charly]

...
I think 54 could be a case of apprenticeship, a big learning experience we all go thru
...Rosada's linking of 53.6 to 54 also made me think of the idea of 'fallen angel', but not in it's devilish view, more like that of that german movie "Wings of Love", where an angel has to fall to earth to escape the unattainability of Love
...

Dora:

I like it very much. Given that the main character in H.54 is The Bride, I believe that there are almost necessaryly:

► Female recognition: the BRIDE is ALWAYS BEAUTIFUL (1).
► Good prognostication: the OMEN of a BRIDE is always good.
► Hopeful: even in hard contexts like the marriage of the OLD MAN or the OLD LADY (2).
► Some reminiscence of a LOST PARADISE, the BRIDE represents the SOUL, and the SOUL is a FALLEN ANGEL.

Of course, all us can be seen as fallen angels, then H.54 is not only for girls.

Yours,

Charly

____________________________
(1) About lames and blinds and beutiful brides:

The Talmud records an usual debate between the houses of Hillel and Shammai concerning the words celebrants should sing when dancing in front of a newly married woman [as part of the wedding festivities].

According to the House of Hillel, the dancers should chant the same words in front of all brides: “What a beautiful and graceful bride!”

Their opponents, the House of Shammai, disagree. “If she is lame or blind, are you going to say of her, ‘What a beautiful and graceful bride?’ Does not the Torah command, ‘Stay far away from falsehood’ (Exodus 23:7)?” They thus oppose reciting a standard formula; rather, each bride should be described “as she is” (see Babylonian Talmud, Ketubot 17a).

Hillel’s position is accepted as Jewish law. One praises the beauty of all brides and, in any case, the bride is likely to appear beautiful in the eyes of her groom.

From: http://www.myjewishlearning.com/pra...pes_of_Speech/Truth_and_Lies/White_Lies.shtml

(2) In spanish there is a saying «It rains with sun: an old lady is marrying», in another versions a WITCH, maybe a good one, is marrying.

 

[rosada]

random thoughts...

Could it be the first three lines of 54 are explaining the first three barren years of 53.5?
53.5 "For three years the woman has no child. In the end nothing can hinder her."
It just seems like there is some sort of overlapping with these two hexagrams. 53 is this joyous journey to culminating in marriage and 54 seems to be the flip side, a maiden being lead to a marriage she really didn't have any voice in. Maybe that in every action there are pros and cons and while we would like to focus on the positive there still exists the negative. I think of hexagram 2.3, "If by chance you are in the service of a king, seek not works, but bring to completion." That line talks about going along with what is required and not voicing any opinion. Maybe we are seeing here is an expanded version of what is going on with those parts of us that must keep quiet. Maybe the I Ching is saying that in any plan, there are always parts that don't fit in and in 54 we see how those parts that don't immediately align can come to be included in time.

Also thinking how we are told that in marriage the two become one. At
54.1 the young girl is guided by her brother, her own intuition, but once she is into the marriage there is a point where her own intuition is not the only voice she is to consider, but at
54.2 she cannot yet hear/comprehend the inner soul of her partner, so she can only follow her own instincts, but like a man with only one eye she knows there is another point of view she cannot yet comprehend. So she feels very lonely.
54.3 would seem to be looking for clues from the outer world. We cannot
feel on an inner level how the other person is towards us we try at least to gain acceptance dressing right, doing all we can that we think might please.
54.4 Realizing if you can't please everyone you might as well please yourself, the woman returns to giving full attention to her own inner voice.
54.5 now calm and having minimized her expectations she can now connect? Hmm, not sure, have to come back to this after we study 54.5.
54.6 Not sure on this one either. Perhaps that once all the parts are aligned there is still no guarantee the couple is together following their inner guidance.

 

[rosada]

54.5
0 Six in the fifth place means:
The sovereign I gave his daughter in marriage.
The embroidered garments of the princess
Were not as gorgeous
As those of the servingmaid.
The moon that is nearly full
Brings good fortune.

The sovereign I is T'ang the completer. This ruler decreed that the imperial princess should be subordinated to their husbands in the same manner as other women (cf. hexagram 11, six in the fifth place). The emperor does not wait for a suitor to woo his daughter but gives her in marriage when he sees fit. Therefore it is in accord with custom for the girl's family to take the initiative here.
We see here a girl of aristocratic birth who marries a man of modest circumstances and understands how to adapt himself with grace to the new situation. She is free of all vanity of outer adornment, and forgetting her rank in her marriage, takes a place below that of her husband, just as the moon, before it is quite full, does not directly face the sun.
-Wilhelm

 

[rosada]

Thinking it might be helpful to know where we're coming from..
A list of all the paths that lead to The Marrying Maiden:

40.1 > 54.
40.1
"Without blame." therefore...
54.1"... Undertakings bring good fortune."

51.2 > 54.
51.2
"Shock brings danger.
A hundred thousand times you lose your treasures and must climb the nine hills.
Do not go in pursuit of them.
After seven days you will get them back." cause after all..
54.2 "...the perseverance of a solitary man furthers.

34.3 > 54.
34.3
"The inferior man works through power.
The superior man does not act thus.
To continue is dangerous.
A goat butts the hedge and gets his horns entangled." So no improvement if..
54.3 "The marrying maiden as a slave marries as a concubine."

19.4 > 54.
19.4
"Complete approach.
No blame." In other words it's all good if she
54.4 "..draws out the allotted time cause a late marriage comes in due course."

58.5 > 54.
58.5
"Sincerity towards disintegrating influences is dangerous." so best remember...
54.5 "..the moon that is nearly full brings good fortune."

38.6 > 54.
38.6
"Isolated through opposition, one see's one's companion as a pig covered with dirt, as a wagon full of devils.
First one draws a bow against him, then one lays the bow aside.
He is not a robber; he will woo when at the right time.
As one goes, rain falls; then good fortune comes."..therefore, be patient else..
54.6 "..nothing acts to further."

 

[rodaki]

(2) In spanish there is a saying «It rains with sun: an old lady is marrying»,

Hi Charly, I got a bit lost at first with your post but now I got it at last!

as a sidenote, we have a similar saying in greek which says: 'Sun and rain: the less fortunate (the poor) get married' . . it is kinda strange seeing these things repeating themselves as such thru cultures!

Rosada, thank you very much for seeing the lines' meanings along their fan yao's this is making so much more sense for me!

This might sound a bit dull but: does anyone see any similarities between hex. 54 and hex. 10? and if yes, how are they different exactly?

rodaki

 

[heylise]

Hex.54 is lake below thunder, and 10 is lake below heaven. So they have both to do with social stuff (lake). With heaven the 'laws' or things like ethics, birth and death, high and low, the more basic things of social life. With thunder - uff, me no good with thunder. I still cannot really figure out what thunder is about. Life-energy? Making things emerge, the voice of god/conscience/harsh reality?
10 - 54 - 60 - 41 - 58 - 38 - 61 - 19 ... Each has lake below. WHAT do they all have in common

In the last four ones the social part is not that difficult to see. Exchange, seeing the difference between you and others, showing your truth, nearing someone. But 41?? Hm, no social exchange because it is shut inside the individual? And 60 - social things under-water..??

The noble one through anxiousness and fear sets in order and examines (in 58, lake). The maiden of 54 does get her dose of anxiousness, and hopes she does it all right.

In 10 when you do things not right, you get bitten by the tiger, that is law of heaven. In 54 you get bitten by your mother in law. Thunder personified?

 

[jilt]

I think you're right Lise, in both cases doing things out of accepted context will meet a terrible authority.

 

[ravenstar]

Hey Frank, thanks for the welcome and for your enlightening post. It helps to understand the lines and movement how one moves from concubine to bride.

LiSe, you asked......

I still cannot really figure out what thunder is about. Life-energy? Making things emerge, the voice of god/conscience/harsh reality?

I am still quite a beginner with the I Ching and its relation to 'Thunder'. However, I can give you an idea of 'Thunder' from an astrological sense.

Frank mentioned

in 54.4 we are at the most earthly heavenly line, the line of the heart. thunder changes to trigram earth and nucleur trigram water is also changing to earth. So the upper core is changing to hexagram 2.
So here the only connection is with earth itself. So there is no real personal perspective.
Here we let the time go by, we don't act. We only feel in our heart what is happening.
We can only feel connection when there is detachment.

Astrologically Thunder is represented by Jupiter. Frank mentioned thunder changes to trigram earth......which to me means, we still have our heads in the clouds though with earth, our feet are now on the ground. Here we are able to attune our consciousness to the vibrations and creative energy of the Cosmic Power (the Magician). If you've seen the glyph for Jupiter it actually looks like a "4". It is said that in the Golden Verses, Pythagoras tells us that the mystic four is the "source of eternal nature and almighty power". It is "what bounds the parts and unites the whole. Sexuality is potent and magical...but our shame and inhibitions have kept us from aquiring 'the almighty power'. Is sexual energy the ability to create? Does violence erupt when this creative force is unchanneled?

This is a great blog on Jupiter. http://mara-gamiel.blogspot.com/2009/02/jupiter-in-astrology.html

In "Archetypes of the Zodiac" by Kathleen Burt she writes.....
"When Jupiter (God) expresses anger through someone in our environment, instead of instinctively yelling back, respond with humility.....touch the ground. Capricorn, the third Earth sign, relates to advance planning. One's dreams cannot be realized without this. Earth also relates to the body"

Isn't this what the marrying maiden did? And although she submitted to the concubine, she never gave up her dream, her wish, her intent.

God is said to be an intelligence of incalculable power! If we add magick to the equation, archetypically Magick is attributed to Jupiter, whose vehicle (the eagle) is a symbol of power in its feminine aspect. A force/shock so strong, it can be likened to being near a flash of lightning during a tremendous thunderstorm.

Also Frank mentioned detachment. Funny, I wrote this, this morning to a friend of mine. We were talking of the heart chakra and how it gives us a more direct and personal 'relationship' with our goals. Detachment may seem strange for the heart chakra, yet it is crucial in enabling us to differentiate between basic emotions and the true feelings of the heart.

Frank also mentioned the Number 11, if any of you know of Aleister Crowley, he invented an elevenlettered word called ABRAHADABRA, the magical formula for the "Great Work" which is the process of uniting Yin and Yang in consciousness. The sum of Unity (1) and its reflection (also 1) symbolized by the number 11, is the mystic number of Woman, the divider into two, which is further symbolized as mother and child. The letter Beth is symbolized by the womb and its number is 2.

So getting back to thunder, we are all extensions of God, the Creator. but we are still too young to be able to handle the intensity of Its enormous electric bolts. But we are learning to 'pull in light' and as we do we are able to 'expand' and create new options, new realities and new ways of living and being. Instead of defining ourselves within a certain category we are magnetically attracting what interests us and we are seen by others as a unique individual with superhuman abilities, linked to a higher power.

ravenstar

 

[frank_r]

Astrologically Thunder is represented by Jupiter. Frank mentioned thunder changes to trigram earth......which to me means, we still have our heads in the clouds though with earth, our feet are now on the ground. Here we are able to attune our consciousness to the vibrations and creative energy of the Cosmic Power (the Magician). If you've seen the glyph for Jupiter it actually looks like a "4". It is said that in the Golden Verses, Pythagoras tells us that the mystic four is the "source of eternal nature and almighty power". It is "what bounds the parts and unites the whole. Sexuality is potent and magical...but our shame and inhibitions have kept us from aquiring 'the almighty power'. Is sexual energy the ability to create? Does violence erupt when this creative force is unchanneled?

This is a great blog on Jupiter. http://mara-gamiel.blogspot.com/2009/02/jupiter-in-astrology.html

In "Archetypes of the Zodiac" by Kathleen Burt she writes.....
"When Jupiter (God) expresses anger through someone in our environment, instead of instinctively yelling back, respond with humility.....touch the ground. Capricorn, the third Earth sign, relates to advance planning. One's dreams cannot be realized without this. Earth also relates to the body"

ravenstar

Hello Janice,

Thunder as power of the first son, the first yang. The power of the beginning of the year, Wood in 5 phase theorie. With thunder we start to see eternity of the cycle again. the son who will(can) be a father again.

Never thought about jupiter in this way, the sign and the number 4. the number four as being 10(1+2+3+4), the return to unity. So with thunder there is the power of repetion, the yang soul that is the binding link with Spirit, Unity.

Frank

 

[heylise]

Janice, thanks for your big post about Jupiter. Makes a lot of sense.

Here we are able to attune our consciousness to the vibrations and creative energy of the Cosmic Power

From the blog you linked to: Jupiter represents man’s triumph over earthly experiences through his understanding of universal law gained through just those experiences. In the Yi in hexagram 54: The noble one through the eternity of the end understands the transitory.
I guess it goes both ways. Understanding the eternal through the transitory, and vv.

I did not really have trouble with the things thunder represents, both tangible and mental ones. My mind could follow all those. I could explain to someone what thunder was, like explaining a calculation when you know how it is done. But my 'guts' didn't feel it.

So yesterday I had a chat with Bruce (meng) about it, and he gave the example of plugging a computer into the wall. And right after that "or sticking your finger into a light socket." Seems weird but that was simple and silly enough for my guts. I suddenly felt how inspiration or motivation is for me what electricity is for a computer. Everything else is there – but nothing works without that energy.

I remembered that in the medicine cards of Jamie Sams was one about Thunder-beings. So I got her book. She gives as main meaning 'useable energy'. "When Thunder comes, it tells you to use the energy, you are getting what you need to complete any task you have in mind."
I compared that with the hexagrams in which thunder figures as trigram. This is all about the practical aspects of thunder. Of course there is much more to it, Bruce knew lots of things, like the connection with prayer, the ‘Word’ in the beginning of creation, and more philosophical stuff. Once I ‘get’ the practical manifestation of a trigram, those things get clear too without much trouble.

When thunder is inner trigram, it means “make use of”:
In 25 of lush growth: Heaven’s work (The ancient kings made use of lush growth in accordance with the seasons to nurture the myriad beings).
In 21 of the clarity of fire (The ancient kings made the penalties clear to enforce the law).
In 42 of the influence of wind. Being outside, it is the 'seal' of the world you live in (When the noble one sees good, his rule is to improve, when there are transgressions, his rule is to reform).
In 27 of the grounding quality of mountain (The noble one uses cautious language and limited food and drink).
In 17 of the social rules or habits of lake (The noble one, towards nightfall, goes inside to eat and relax).
In 3 of the "unraveling" power of water (The noble one unravels the warp).
In 24 of the wei-wu-wei of earth (The first kings closed the frontiers at sun solstice, peddlers did not travel, the Hou did not inspect the region).

Earth is not an easy one to describe. Earth cannot do anything else but be what she is. Like a rose is a rose is a rose.
Like a rose worships her creator by being a rose, so earth worships heaven.

When thunder is outer trigram it brings a power into action:
In 34 the laws of heaven (The noble one will not tread a path without ritual).
In 55 the clarity of fire (The noble one decides lawsuits and carries out punishments - in 21 ‘use’ punishments, in 55 carry them out)
In 62 the grounding of mountain (The noble one exceeds in respect in actions, exceeds in sorrow at funerals, exceeds in thrift at spending)
In 40 the "unraveling" of water (The noble one pardons transgressions and is lenient towards crimes).
In 16 earth‘s worship (The ancient kings composed music, honored virtue, with dancers worshipped the Lord on High. They associated with the deceased ancestors).
In 32 the influence of wind, being inside, it is your own 'seal' (The noble one stands and does not change his bearings).
In 54 social context of lake. It is a situation in which social rules connect very closely with their big inherent meaning. The maiden has an important task, even though her position is low, certainly in the beginning. She has to look after the altars of the ancestors, but as the new wife she harbors the potential for making the lineage continue into the future (The noble one through the eternity of the end understands the transitory).

 

[rosada]

Thanks for posting this LiSe! I had been toying with the puzzle too and found that looking at how a trigram affects all the hexagrams is big help in understanding it.
I was looking at Thunder in it's position of upper trigram and found that CHEN acts as a wake up call, and what it arouses is determined by the lower trigram. Thus..

16. Enthusiasm
-- --
-- -- THUNDER
-----

-- --
-- -- EARTH
-- --
Earth is total receptivity, so when the arousing thunder calls there is no resistance and so we have everything and everybody responding, even the dead ancestors. CHEN as Gabriel's horn!

32. Duration
-- --
-- -- THUNDER
-----

-----
----- WIND
-- --
Wind is total adaptability so when the thunder rolls, wind adapts easily, and thus endures.

34.THE POWER OF THE GREAT
-- --
-- -- THUNDER
-----

-----
----- HEAVEN
-----
Heaven is all powerful so when thunder sounds the wake up call here there is an almost overwhelming response, particularly at the first line.

40. DELIVERANCE
-- --
-- -- THUNDER
-----

-- --
----- WATER
-- --
Here the thunder sounds and water responds and even though water can represent danger here it is a good thing. The risk pays off, leaping out of the water, deliverance from evil.

51. THE AROUSING
-- --
-- -- THUNDER
-----

-- --
-- -- THUNDER
-----
Here the thunder from the outside is matched by thunder from within. It's an encouraging hexagram and seems to say there is nothing that can come at us from the outer world that can't be matched by what we have within. Or more benignly, we may be frightened when we first hear the call, but we discover we have what it takes to respond.

54. THE MARRYING MAIDEN
-- --
-- -- THUNDER
-----

-- --
----- LAKE
-----
When the arousing sound of thunder calls lake it appears that there is not a strong response. The top line of trigram lake is open and receptive but the bottom two lines are not. Perhaps this explains the problems of The Marrying Maiden. Perhaps the response to the orders from above is not very deep. Interesting this hexagram follows 51. where the thunder, shock, was so great it inspired complete obedience. Here it's as if the demands of thunder don't scare, but arouse a sort of rebellion - like as to a boss who gives crazy orders or as LiSe suggests, a mother in law. I think of someone giving what is supposed to be an inspirational speech and the audience not being deeply transformed. A superficial response.

55. ABUNDANCE
-- --
-- -- THUNDER
-----

-----
-- -- FLAME
-----
Thunder AND Lightening. The peak moment. Gabriel blows his horn and the soul awakens. Hmm..seems similar to 16. Only here it may be dangerous. Thunder brings out the fire. Fire illuminates. Fire is the confidence there is nothing to hide. The truth comes out. (Maybe this is the Marrying Maiden having enough confidence now to speak up.)

62. PREPONDERANCE OF THE SMALL.
-- --
-- -- THUNDER
-----

-----
-- -- MOUNTAIN
-- --
Here the awakening call of thunder barely effects the lower trigram at all. Mountain puts up a barrier to outside influence. Or rather perhaps it is that everything is in such good order that nothing needs to change even when the whistle blows. Anyway, at 62. only a few small adjustments are appropriate.

So that's my story. Incidentally I am not presenting this as anything more than an example of my fooling around. Not at all intended to be a teaching.

 

[rosada]

Seeing a story here...

16. The Prince is giving a ball! Everyone is invited!

32. The invitation goes out all over the land. The prince does this every year. He gives a party and often from among the girls who attend he picks a new wife.

34. Well of course everyone wanted to attend but one little girl in particular, Cinderella, said, "The prince will choose ME."

40. She had been wishing to leave her home and her mean stepmother and stepsisters for years. She knew that this was her big chance for Deliverance.

51. Well to just about everyone's shock and surprise, the prince did pick Cinderella. But she was not surprised at all. She had felt all along this was fated to be.

54. What she hadn't expected was that when she enter the prince's home it wasn't anything like what she had imagined. In fact, it was pretty much like the home she had just left only now instead of a stepmother and stepsisters bossing her around she had a mother-in-law and other wives to answer to. She did her best to get along, but she didn't intend to live like a slave forever. Looking to the future she realized she had been wrong to wish for a prince, she realized there was never going to be anyone outside herself coming to rescue her.

55. This flash of insight so empowered her she stopped blaming others and feeling sad. She became like the sun at mid day and took charge of her life.

62. So, did she stay with the prince? Maybe. Or maybe she did a 56 and became a wandering nun. That's just a detail. The important thing is she realized she could stay or go, be happy or not, it was no one's choice but her own. And once she realized that...
She lived happily ever after .

THE END.

 

[frank_r]

54. THE MARRYING MAIDEN
-- --
-- -- THUNDER
-----

-- --
----- LAKE
-----
When the arousing sound of thunder calls lake it appears that there is not a strong response. The top line of trigram lake is open and receptive but the bottom two lines are not. Perhaps this explains the problems of The Marrying Maiden. Perhaps the response to the orders from above is not very deep. Interesting this hexagram follows 51. where the thunder, shock, was so great it inspired complete obedience. Here it's as if the demands of thunder don't scare, but arouse a sort of rebellion - like as to a boss who gives crazy orders or as LiSe suggests, a mother in law. I think of someone giving what is supposed to be an inspirational speech and the audience not being deeply transformed. A superficial response.

.

Yes, very intersting that you made this connection Lise.
I was reading what Rosada wrote with 54.
Trigram lake is connected with the heart and the heart protector(the false self- the ego).

But in the marrying maiden there is already so much knowledge that things go as they go, that there is knowledge in the heart. So the knowledge is personal, there is thunder a new beginning on the level of the heart. But because the heart has already the connection with the spirit and eternity there is nothing realy something new. Like the feeling that you will dy once. On one hand is this something that everybody knows but is almost impossible to grasp as long as you live.

Frank

 

[ravenstar]

Wow! LiSe, Frank and Rosada, the stuff on Thunder is awesome. This is a great help for everyone!!!

Thanks!

ravenstar

 

[charly]

54.5
0 Six in the fifth place means:
The sovereign I gave his daughter in marriage.
The embroidered garments of the princess
Were not as gorgeous
As those of the servingmaid.
The moon that is nearly full
Brings good fortune.
...

Rosada:

I have many doubts with 54.5:

帝乙 di4 yi3: postumous name of a Yin ruler (1) / SOVEREIGN I
歸 gui1: to come back / to return / to marry (a woman) / GAVE IN MARRIAGE
妹 mei4: younger sister (2) / DAUGHTER

其 qi2: his / her / its / theirs / that / such / THE
君 jun1: monarch / lord / gentleman / ruler / PRINCESS
之 zhi1: 's / him / her / it / OF THE
袂 mei4: sleeve of a robe / [THE] EMBROIDERED GARNMENTS

不 bu4: not / no / WERE NOT
如 ru2: as (if) / such as / AS
其 qi2: his / her / its / theirs / that / such / THOSE
娣 di4: wife of a younger brother / SERVINGMAID
之 zhi1: 's / him / her / it / OF THE
袂 mei4: sleeve of a robe / EMBROIDERED GARNMENTS
良 liang2: good / very / very much / GORGEOUS

月 yue4: moon / month / MOON
幾 ji1: almost / NEARLY
望 wang4: full / FULL
吉 ji2: lucky / [BRINGS] GOOD FORTUNE

I understand that the chinese syntax is here complex, but I wonder why some inconsistences:

帝乙 di4 yi3 is a postumous name, the time of the narration must be PAST, the content not an image but a story, there was such a story?

妹 mei4 is translated here as DAUGHTER, some authors think that DI YI is marrying his YOUNGER SISTER.

君 jun1 is translated as PRINCESS while is almost always MALE, maybe the comparison is with the same DI YI, not with another girl.

袂 mei4, translated as EMBOIDERED GARNMENTS means SLEEVE with spicy associations with FEMALE GENITALS, GENEROSITY and WEALTH.

娣 di4: wife of a younger brother, here translated as SERVINGMAID, while in another lines was translated CONCUBINE (2)

And last, the MOON ALMOST FULL is telling what was the lunar phase at the time of the marriage (there were records?) or is maybe speaking of the GIRL, about her almost notorious pregnancy?

More questions asap.

Yours,

Charly
__________________________

(1)

Di Yi (帝乙) was king of the Shang Dynasty of China from 1101BC to 1076BC.
His name is Xian (羡). His capital was at Yin (殷).
According to Bamboo Annals, On the third year of his regime, he ordered Nanzhong (南仲) to fight Kun Barbarians (昆夷) and built Sufang City (朔方) after winning the battle. He also fought the Renfang (Di Cosmo, 1999: 908), eventually capturing and sacrificing their chief.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di_Yi

(2) This character in the ODES was translated as VIRGINS by Legge, speaking of the girls (mainly younger SISTERS or maternal COUSINS) that accompanied the bride in royal marriages as secondary wives.

 

[rodaki]

wow wow wow . . been away from my computer for 2 days and now there are so many new things to assimilate!

so while I am slowly trying to digest everything, I'm thinking that a crude answer to the question of 10 and 54 is that in 10 we are following heavenly nature's guidelines, in 54 we are following family's guidelines, a narrower focus of context that is . . (that 'mother-in-law' surely did its work, lol! Thank you LiSe!)

and of course thanks to Janice and Frank and Rosada (fairytale stuff yeah ) and Charly for sharing their knowledge . . I'm taking small bites, not deeply enlightend but babysteps will do for me now


:bows:
rodaki

 

[rosada]

I think we're doing a bit of performance art showing what can happen at 54.5:
People with all levels of understanding have linked together here without prejudice and created a "moon that is nearly full," a view of the group consciousness and a fuller insight into the line.

Rodaki, thanks for that insight about Thunder being similar to Heaven but with a "tighter focus." Works for me.

And while I'm at it..
Charly, thank you for your posting of the actual chinese. It is so empowering to know the original inspiration these translations!

rosada

 

[rosada]

"The sovereign I gave his daughter in marriage, Her embroidered garments were not as gorgeous as those of the servingmaid." The place is in the middle, hence action has value.

The place is central and honored. Nevertheless, the line is yielding and condescends to the strong nine in the second place like a princess marrying an inferior, Therefore because of her nobility she pays no attention to outer appearance, and the servingmaid, in the lowest place, is more gorgeous than she. The image of the moon appears because this line is at the top of the nuclear trigram K'an (moon).
-Wilhelm

 

[my_key]

There has been some really exciting posts here in this thread recently. Ravenstar, LiSe, Charly - thanks for sharing your insights. Frank connecting Lake to ego got me scurrying to dig out my Richmond. He has the threads if identity (ego) and feeling from the life force running though his work. His words

"We no longer accept that feeling is inactive and create a mind-feeling, a feeling stimulated by mind rather than life force."

He translates 54.5 as "The emperor’s daughter was married in a gown less impressive than that of the serving maid. The moon is nearly full, good fortune."

and comments
"Our feeling is the serving maid of our identifying, supplying the experience that is then identified. So line 5 is about what identity does with feeling. How it dresses it up. The emperor is the ruler and our ruler in identity is the identifying process; this dresses up the experience in a way that is less beautiful than its original natural self. But the moon is nearly full, the growth of the feeling influence is waxing and about to reach its full radiance, so this opening to feeling will allow natural feeling to show itself again and this is good fortune."

We have reached a stage in the transformation process where our ego (Is this what Sovereign I refers to?) creates an illusion of the feeling, it creates a false image, and dresses up the experience in a way that is less beautiful than the original natural experience (our true feelings are masked). But don’t fret, our feelings of the heart, where sits our true self, are in the ascendant and as we open up more our natural self will show itself more.

So with this in mind and going back to som of the early posts in this thread are we looking at a return to self, a spiritual transformation here?
The action that has value here is to seek out and marry with our inner self.

Mike

 

[ravenstar]

Hey Mike!

It's my turn to say we've missed you! You said something that caught my eye and (like you) I was scrambling for a book by Liz Greene, called Astrology For Lovers.

originally posted by my_key We have reached a stage in the transformation process where our ego (Is this what Sovereign I refers to?) creates an illusion of the feeling, it creates a false image, and dresses up the experience in a way that is less beautiful than the original natural experience (our true feelings are masked). But don’t fret, our feelings of the heart, where sits our true self, are in the ascendant and as we open up more our natural self will show itself more.

Lis Greene talks of the Ascendant in Astrology for Lovers.....here's what she says...

"As we have said the Ascendant is a very important point in the horoscope. It shows how you express yourself to the world outside. In many ways the Ascendant is more obvious to people than the Sun. You have to know someone for a while to really see how their Sun Sign operates. But if you meet someone at a party, or are just introduced, then you'll see the sign on the Ascendant. It's like the doorway to the house. No matter what's going on in that house, the first thing you see is the door. Some doors are open, welcoming inviting, painted in cheery colours. Other doors are silent, closed, with a little peephole so whoever lives inside can check you out first before they let you in. Some doors are large and grandiose, like palace entrances. Other's are small and unobtrusive. The door isn't really any index to the inside of the house. There are houses where you would never notice that shabby little door, but the inside is beautiful. Others are very flamboyant outside, but small and unobtrusive inside. Never judge a house by it's door. But the door reflects how that person wants you to see him. So we have the sign on the Ascendant.
AND.....

"The idea of the "persona" offers a considerable amount of insight into the function of the Ascendant which is often maligned by being considered merely a superficial mask which has little relation to the inner reality of the person. Like the masks of the ancient Greek tragedy, the persona is the person's statement of himself to the world; through this cultivated component of the psyche he declares his role according to the manner in which he has developed over the years. The persona, like the Ascendant, does not come into full conscious flowering until a certain level of maturity has been reached. Ideally this role should be a synthesis of what is best in him, and most useful, and should be worn lightly so that the man does not make the mistake of identifying with his presentation. It is very much what he would ideally like to be, or what he is developing into, rather than what he automatically is at any given time. The first house [ascendant/rising sign] is the most unformed part of the birth chart for it, even more than the rest of the chart, is in a process of becoming.
So the ascendant is how a person allows others to him/her. In fact it sometimes protects their real identity. It tells us how a person has 'photographed" the environment what's happenng in it and they dress, act with what will work for them.

Also, when the Moon is full, its position will be in opposition to the sun. During a full moon we are more aware, clear and open to the influence of others around us, and the influence we have on them. And actually anything you do, will only have meaning if it is in combination with other people.

A full moon is an integral moment when we reach a summit and feel like we're on top of the world.....we're in LOVE....peace and tranquility flows threw through us....life has meaning and we feel conntected to ALL, 'selfless'.

Also when there's a full moon we know there was a past that led up to this moment...although it was hidden from us at the time, the seed was sown at 'the dark of the moon' (turning inward toward our deepest self) and began developing at the crescent moon (a time of promise).

But once it is full, the moon will start to wane, a time when we will start looking to the past.

ravenstar

 

[my_key]

The persona, like the Ascendant, does not come into full conscious flowering until a certain level of maturity has been reached. Ideally this role should be a synthesis of what is best in him, and most useful, and should be worn lightly so that the man does not make the mistake of identifying with his presentation. It is very much what he would ideally like to be, or what he is developing into, rather than what he automatically is at any given time. The first house [ascendant/rising sign] is the most unformed part of the birth chart for it, even more than the rest of the chart, is in a process of becoming.

Yep - This all makes good sense.So perhaps the key aspect here in 54.5 is the aspect of maturity. The inner changes of lines 1-3 have started to show. It's taken them a while for them to bubble away under the surface but are now accepted (line 4). The wine has started to ferment. You have matured in some respects, but because you have not yet reached that full level of maturity you think you need to be something that you are not. And by trying to be something it takes the shine off what is the brightness. If you try to drink the young wine early it doesn't taste so good.As Rosada noted

"The sovereign I gave his daughter in marriage, Her embroidered garments were not as gorgeous as those of the servingmaid."

The transformation process (whatever you are changing from and to in Hex 54) is happening, and part of you thinks that you have to do something to help it along the way. But really there is nothing that you can do to help the maturing. You WANT to do something, put on a show or mask, but the NEED to actually do something is really not necessary. If you trusted the process all will come good in the fullness of time.

I guess its a bit like a I want to transform from being at work to being at home so I can get changed and go out to the party tonight. I know what I have to do to help, I'll watch that clock, that'll bring the party closer. Or even in the extreme ....I'll go and change the hands on the clock that'll do the trick. You stand to the chair to reach the clock on the wall and fall off and twist your ankle. But whatever you've done the party is still going to start when it's going to start and with a twisted ankle that party time isn't going to be so good now.

Mike