Hex 58 - Joyousness, the way forward?

[ginnie]

We are all limited in various ways and I think it's wise to recognize when we are blocked and cannot proceed with our hopes, plans, and dreams. You don't know what will ultimately prove true, because the active elements of your situation are still coming into being (hexagram 3). The future is not cast in stone. Hexagram 3 tells you to do nothing to advance your own cause and that you need supporters and helpers. So I was thinking it would be good for you to get your mind off her for a while and give it a rest.

 

[sooo]

It just seems a bit confusing to me, and maybe its telling me something other than what I asked, for all I know?

If you ever figure that one out, I hope you'll share the secret to knowing if it speaks to your question or to you.

I still like the word 'exchange' for 58.

 

[sooo]

The kinds of waters, lakes and rivers I've fished, link to other waterways. Some lakes are chained together by a canal or river, or a heavy rain, or even a tide. The idea being many ponds, lakes, swamps, streams, etc. connecting. The fish and every living thing migrate from one to another.

 

[ginnie]

Sooo, very poetic.

 

[Magnus]

Thanks for all your input and thoughts, ginnie and sooo. As I have at least temporarily lost contact with X, I asked how do I proceed with X? and received 6 unchanging. I presume that means to take things as they come and not resist or fight them... maybe more to it than that. It seemed like she was backing away after I mentioned wanting to ask her a question a few days ago.

 

[sooo]

Thinking about the confusing aspect where she focuses on other guys but always has her eye on me, I asked "What would draw X's mind to focus on me instead of gravitating toward other guys?"

But would this ever change, and wouldn't the question become "What would draw X's mind to focus on other guys?" (at all)

Sounds like she was attracted to you, and being free to do what she wishes, wished to play with you. Nothing wrong, but not where you're coming from. It happens in reverse lots more, where the female feels less important to him than he is to her. It may or may not be true.

Some guys like the idea of their gf or mate feeling free and flirty, and then, some don't. The result of 6 leads me to think they're not on the same page about this.

 

[Magnus]

I would agree it seems like she's n ot on the same page as me. She'll pay lipservice to things when I bring them up, but idk if she really means it since she doesn't come up with it herself. I wonder if she'll re-appear or not. That's what I always wonder when this happens.

I decided just to ask if X will come around if I wait. I found 13.1.3 > 12 interesting. I particularly wondered how 12 plays a role in this as stagnation to me sounds like it's a situation going nowhere?

 

[sooo]

Sounds like you don't yet know her, Magnus. Or else you do, and there's nothing else there.

Have you considered your attachment to be to your own anima? Consider her attributes as you experience them, to your inner self. They don't have to be true, mind you, only that you perceive these characteristics in her, including or particularly the undesirable traits, but don't eliminate the desirable.

 

[Magnus]

From the get-go, her and I have thought how similar we are to each other. But now that you mention that, I notice she seems less similar to me now than when we first communicated. It's like maybe she can be what she wants to be for a particular person and I am pretty sure I can alter myself for particular people too. I'm not sure this gets me very far but it's interesting to consider... She also kind of made me think if she's so similar to me, and I like her, maybe I can like myself better than I do.

 

[Magnus]

Hmm... Do I know X as well as I always thought I knew her? 38 unchanging. I don't know if the I Ching can answer this sort of question, but it's interesting.

 

[sooo]

Rather than compare your outer natures, I'm asking you to contemplate (these are usually not instant answers) if and how the things she does that confuse you exist within your anima, which is not the same as your own outer nature or personality. In fact, we usually don't know our anima well, but we do recognize her in certain other women, or else we can sometimes project our anima onto someone else, especially if we're unaware that we're dealing with ourselves more than with the other woman. Anima is a Jungian term. If you're not familiar with it, you may find it worth looking up.

 

[Magnus]

I've heard of the term Anima, and I knew as much that it was a Jungian term. I should look it up to be clearer on what it is though I know there's anima and another word like animus maybe one being more masculine and the other more feminine. Thinking deeper, I'm rather unclear on what I want in life, and maybe somehow that is expressed somehow through her. But maybe this idea is surface and not what you're talking about either. I will contemplate further though.

 

[Magnus]

Could the anima discussion you're asking me to look at have anything to do with her her relationships with family members reflect relationships with my own family and myself? I think this might be on to something if it's along the lines of what you're talking about... And I think it would make a lot of sense to me.

 

[sooo]

Your anima primarily has to do with you, and your relationships can absolutely be dramatically effected by her. She's most likely to appear in dreams as a mysterious woman, and usually there is an unexplainable and powerful attraction or connection. It is she, would say Jung and J. Campbell, that we set out to find in a mate, until some time after we realize, hey! this isn't the girl I thought she was, and he tells her after years of marriage, I'm sorry, my dear, you no longer fit my anima image, so I must go looking for her. Of course few realize this is why they've lost that magic feeling, and why there's an altogether different phase in the love relationship, where you learn to love her for her, and not because she reminded you of your anima.

The male figure, animus, is very similar to a woman, but there are differences.

The reason I think this may be important to you is that if you recognize this anima association, you can understand your deep attraction to this woman more clearly.

 

[sooo]

“How few understand what love really is and how it arises in the human heart. It is so frequently equated with good feelings towards others, with benevolence or nonviolence or service. But these things in themselves are not love. Love springs from awareness. It is only inasmuch as you see someone as he or she really is, here and now, and not as they are in your memory or your desire or in your imagination or projection that you can truly love them; otherwise it is not the person that you love but the idea that you have formed about this person, or this person as the object of your desire, not as he or she is in themselves. The first act of love is to see this person or this object, this reality, as it truly is. And this involves the enormous discipline of dropping your desires, your prejudices, your memories, your projections, your selective way of looking – a discipline so great that most people would rather plunge headlong into good actions and service than submit to the burning fire of this asceticism. When you set out to serve someone whom you have not taken the trouble to see, are you meeting that person’s need or your own?” - Father Anthony de Mello

 

[Magnus]

I've had several dreams about her, most recently one was where there was a tornado I was observing and saw all these faces of familiar people to me. I was left wondering why I never saw her flying around in the funnel cloud. Another night I dreamed of us being on a beach facing out over the water, she was uncomfortable for some reason in that dream. There was another where my sister and I were at a glass house/building near the beach and she was shocked/getting frustrated because of something she somehow learned about this girl. I guess in all three there's mystery that surrounds her. I never thought too far into the dreams, and any interpretation of symbols I've read, I tend to try and view as positive for her and I being together. Part of me has wanted to be with her, but with her backing away and coming close again over and over the feelings I have are lessening because probably of the lack of ability to trust the "always there" piece that I once thought to be realistic.

 

[Magnus]

One thing we recognized awhile ago is that we both felt that interacting with each other was an escape from stressful and unhappy times in life. It was a place for excitement and fun, peacefulness etc. It was an escape. I sometimes ponder whether the separations from her, which I've sometimes gotten the powerful jolt hexagram, was something to do with telling me not to focus on escaping my life but to focus on myself.. and only then maybe something could manifest itself better in my romance life (whether it be with X or someone else, but I have this feeling X was there for a reason and isn't truly going to ever disappear.. not sure if its intuition or wishful thinking).

 

[sooo]

I've had several dreams about her, most recently one was where there was a tornado I was observing and saw all these faces of familiar people to me. I was left wondering why I never saw her flying around in the funnel cloud. Another night I dreamed of us being on a beach facing out over the water, she was uncomfortable for some reason in that dream. There was another where my sister and I were at a glass house/building near the beach and she was shocked/getting frustrated because of something she somehow learned about this girl. I guess in all three there's mystery that surrounds her. I never thought too far into the dreams, and any interpretation of symbols I've read, I tend to try and view as positive for her and I being together. Part of me has wanted to be with her, but with her backing away and coming close again over and over the feelings I have are lessening because probably of the lack of ability to trust the "always there" piece that I once thought to be realistic.

Having several dreams about a woman who captivates you; yeah, I'd say there's some indication of anima activity going on in your deeper/darker psyche. It's funny that your scene is by the water, because I almost posted that I met my anima on the beach, in the shallow and calm surf. I can turn that moment on in my head at will; I just choose not to torture myself, chuckle. But damned cuz this old salty dog still stands to attention, if I see someone who looks like her, anywhere. Ah, but she's so rare as to be unlikely found around common polished stones. She lives instead inside my head.

Consider 31-32. What happened in this relationship between 31 and 32? Somewhere along the way, they decided to stay, even though they're not who they were thought to be. Either they resigned to it, or they decided to learn to love one another for real, and move on to 32.

I've lost sight of exactly what we're searching for... oh, the dreams...

That she wasn't in your funnel cloud suggests she's not on the scene.. where is she? Again, the illusive anima can't be grasped that way.. like trying to grab the funnel itself. If she's like that in your dream, say hello to your anima.

Then learn who this woman really is, before wooing her.

That's not a personal judgment, I'm sure you'll understand. It's just how it looks from here.

 

[sooo]

One thing we recognized awhile ago is that we both felt that interacting with each other was an escape from stressful and unhappy times in life. It was a place for excitement and fun, peacefulness etc. It was an escape. I sometimes ponder whether the separations from her, which I've sometimes gotten the powerful jolt hexagram, was something to do with telling me not to focus on escaping my life but to focus on myself.. and only then maybe something could manifest itself better in my romance life (whether it be with X or someone else, but I have this feeling X was there for a reason and isn't truly going to ever disappear.. not sure if its intuition or wishful thinking).

Man, you make the anima case, by your very first sentence: "One thing we recognized awhile ago is that we both felt that interacting with each other was an escape from stressful and unhappy times in life. It was a place for excitement and fun, peacefulness etc. It was an escape." In other words, you weren't really that interested in one another so much as using one another to escape unhappy memories and such. Well, 58 would suggest it's about time you both did that. You still get to keep your inner tornado, she gets to keep her shining knight. You can have fun and role play on Saturday nights.

 

[Magnus]

So you're saying that nothing serious would be between us, but we can just enjoy the time we get together for what it always was?

 

[sooo]

Not at all. I have no idea what may develop between the two of you. What I'm saying is get to know her, the real her, rather than your your anima projection, or her animus onto you, as is typically the case, and awhile later the couple doesn't understand how or why the other person doesn't satisfy them the way they did in the beginning. It's because they were chasing their own inner female rather than taking the time to know the actual person being courted.

 

[Magnus]

Thinking about this, I noticed a shift in myself after the summer ended. I was going against some of her plans based on what I perceived of her. She has difficulty in certain situations (like when her friend wanted her to be with him in the room when they put him down for surgery... she had trouble handling watching him "die" more or less with going under anaesthesia), and she doesn't like going to hospital. Her career choice is a position which is often occurring in hospitals and could be involved in surgery and such. Also, she's told me she dives into sports because of other people in her life, she has no problem with me not being a sporty person or into sports and even talked about coming to college near me rather than taking a sports scholarship to a college near her but ultimately she chose to take the scholarship to the school where she lives near. Her relationship with her father is based around sports, and she seems to really want that relationship to be strong.

 

[sooo]

Do you feel inadequate due to your lack of sporting interests? Do you perceive that's more important to you or to her? Is there insecurity over it on your part?

I think you'll only go so far through this discussion and the oracle. This is between the two of you, and I think that's where this dialogue needs to take place. If you have questions about her, ask her. If she has questions about you, she needs to ask you. That's 58. It would be a strange marriage indeed if everything you talked about had to be through the Yijing.

 

[Magnus]

You have a point. I feel that I look for things "wrong" with me, and not being interested in sports is one of those that could be "wrong" with me and holding her back from me in my hypothetical ideas. If she says I'm [perfect, fully knowing I lack knowledge or interest in sports but am willing to listen to her talk about them and ask questions where I don't know things and have her willingly explain then that wouldn't be an issue and that's exactly how the sporting topic works when we talk really! Right now we have no communication, she's blocked any means I have of contacting her so I don't know what's going to happen. I just have my mind to speculate. She has blocked off communication before, and randomly reconnected weeks later, so maybe that will happen again or maybe not. I just cannot know, but the fact that it's happened now for a third time since September has got me feeling less strongly about her, even though I know I'd run right back when she returned if she does. I don't know if that's healthy or not. I feel that I have been able to learn a lot though through my YI results and others feedback though so this has done well for me even if it has reached its capacity to help at all.

 

[sooo]

She has blocked off communication before, and randomly reconnected weeks later

I thought chicks always do that. :hide:

But seriously, there's all kinds of possible reasons why she'd do that. Some intentional, some incidental. Have to ask her, if you ever have that chance again.

 

[Magnus]

Yeah, with technology it could easily be incidental. Usually it's been to disconnect herself from drama of one kind or another and has been intentional. I dislike the "not knowing" aspect of it as to whether she'll ever come back. She sometimes has good lines like "We aren't ever 'over'" which sound good, and kinda keep guys where they're around still and things are good between her and them but not really having to decide on anything in particular since she's not really sure what she wants out of life. It's complicated, yet it makes sense from some point of view too. I think I sometimes use the I Ching or YiING or whatever is best to refer to it as, as a crutch to try and pull me through the not knowing which exists through much of life. It sort of helps but sort of just keeps my mind busy while I'm waiting...

 

[Magnus]

I don't know what provoked me to ask "Is X a demonstration of my anima?" but I received 51.3.5 > 49. When I saw Hexagram 51, it basically said to me "You're on to something!" I just intuitively read it that way, not how I usually would interpret it. Is that a possible way to accurately read such a hexagram casting?

 

[sooo]

There's a lot of excitement but unless you can do something about it to revolutionize this relationship, your inner excitement is all there will be. It's not a big stretch to go from your inner excitement to your anima question, since at this point it's what's causing the storm inside of you. I'd take it as a yes.

 

[Magnus]

Interesting. I asked "Is X my soul mate?" and got back to the 58 hexagram. This time 58.1.5.6 > 64. Not sure if this is giving me a yes or no answer or if it is saying something else. My initial thought would be that yes she is, but I only think that from the name of the hexagram joyousness and there's a lot more to it than that especially with the changing lines involved rather than it being unchanging.

 

[ginnie]

Interesting. I asked "Is X my soul mate?" and got back ... 58.1.5.6 > 64.

When three lines are moving, I focus on the middle one, which in this case is 58.5. This line says that faith in what is disintegrating leads to trouble. It's saying pretty clearly that you are putting your trust in a relationship which is in the process of fading away. Yet your heart lingers there, as if nothing had changed.

The top line moving drives the point home, as it mentions joy in the form of allurement, a superficial sort of joy, unworthy of us.