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hexa 41.3.4.5 to 1, complicated relationship prob

stal2

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Hi everyone,

I recently asked iching about my relationship situation between me and my boyfriend. And I got hexagram 41 with changing line 3, 4, and 5. I understand the explanations for line 4 and 5. My question is in line 3, which I think the three people are me, my bf, and his daughter, although I am not 100% sure. The reason why I think his daughter is the third person is because a lot of fights between me and my bf within this one month caused by his daughter. His daughter is a teenager, she gives me attitude sometimes, guess it's because she doesn't like her dad has girlfriends (my bf told me she wants him to hang out with her mom). And my bf never says anything when he sees that, he told me she has her right of having opinion. Plus, when we three hang out, my bf only pays attention to her, and she seems like his gf more than I do. And I can tell she's trying to make me jealous sometimes. I understand that's his daughter, but it's hard to control that weird feeling, especially when I see him does small talks with his daughter.

So now my question is, is it the hexagram suggesting me I have to leave because there is no way he will choose me over his daughter? Is that the only solution? I really don't know what to do because I love my bf.
 

willowfox

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Line 41.3 indicates that one of you must leave. Remember the saying, "Two are company but three is a crowd".

You need to leave.
 

stal2

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Thanks for your help.

I asked iching again about if it's telling me I should leave him. I got 8.3 to hexagram 39. Then I asked iching if it's telling me he's not the right person for me. I got 3.3 and 3.4. So what iching is really trying to tell me? Could anyone give me some helps? Thanks!
 

themis

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Hello Stal,

The ICs original response is that 'diminishing one's affliction' will follow 41.3, thereafter you'll
have a situation of 'to partnering belongs a tortoise, spring significant, the origin above shielding
indeed' being one of the most auspicious lines in Hex 41.

Such a response is reassuring, however when one asks basically the same question again on the
same day, one might receive a contradiction, hence 8.3. The next question further contradicts
and reinforces the original response, by informing you that you've approached a 'mature stag'
hence caution is advised, and thereafter the picture is one of union 'significant, brightness indeed'.
Hex 3 depicts a new beginning involving difficulties such as 'the growth of a tender shoot piercing
through the soil'. (The Original I Ching: Ritsema & Sabbadini)

Something might happen. Wait and see. I wouldn't suggest you leave. Teenagers, especially girls
in relation to their fathers do have such a reaction - quite natural. If you could somehow show
her that your intention is not to 'take away' her Dad and that you're sincere and well meaning she
may change her attitude. Perhaps when she's around focus on her, show interest in her life and
activities - become friends.
Hope you'll manage to work things out.
 

mariah kaze

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Hi everyone,

I recently asked iching about my relationship situation between me and my boyfriend. And I got hexagram 41 with changing line 3, 4, and 5. I understand the explanations for line 4 and 5. My question is in line 3, which I think the three people are me, my bf, and his daughter, although I am not 100% sure. The reason why I think his daughter is the third person is because a lot of fights between me and my bf within this one month caused by his daughter. His daughter is a teenager, she gives me attitude sometimes, guess it's because she doesn't like her dad has girlfriends (my bf told me she wants him to hang out with her mom). And my bf never says anything when he sees that, he told me she has her right of having opinion. Plus, when we three hang out, my bf only pays attention to her, and she seems like his gf more than I do. And I can tell she's trying to make me jealous sometimes. I understand that's his daughter, but it's hard to control that weird feeling, especially when I see him does small talks with his daughter.

So now my question is, is it the hexagram suggesting me I have to leave because there is no way he will choose me over his daughter? Is that the only solution? I really don't know what to do because I love my bf.

Please know that I am not a "reader" or anything like a psychic but I do have life's experience as well as a dep faith in the I Ching to guide us. Please take my comments as given with the best of intentions but I make no claims as to my "accuracy".
Hex 41 means reducing that which is too much. Thomas Cleary says: "stopping desires".
I take is to mean "diminishing excess". Now one way to dimish excess is to give away what you don't need. Make a sacrifice. (I've been doing a lot of reading about this) :bows:

I can very much relate to the behavior of the man's daughter here. She feels she is being displaced by the changes in her father's relationship to her mother. She feels like she is loosing Dad to you. Her feelings of jealousy have to be addressed and she has to be reassured that she remains in her correct place "as his beloved daughter" and that it is Mother that is being displaced and not her.
She has to be told that she is not only not at fault but that her mother's I father's problems are not hers and that she, in spite of what Mom might be saying, does not have to take sides. She has to be firmly told where her relationship boundaries with her father are - by him, not you.

This is where reduction comes in for you. You must never become someone who takes him away from her when she needs him more. You are the adult here and if you take this on, you're going to have to make some concessions and sacrifices in your expectations of romance and fantasy. Get grounded and get real about what you're going to give up in order to help this child grow through this period of time without damage to her or your relationship with him. I think line three is telling you that you are three people walking and that eventually, she will walk off and find her own friend. Handle this carefully and the results will be that this kid will come to trust you and grow out of her very negative emotional position towards a healthier one. Hex 3 is saying this might be hard at first but persevere.

Mostly, I'm simply telling you what my gut says to. Been there, got the tee-shirt and sold it at a yard sale. Being a step-parent can be the pits if you think you're going to waltz in and take Mom's place. Make the place your own in a very compassionate way and your guy will will think you're his savior :)
 

ginnie

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You are the adult here ...I think line three is telling you that you are three people walking and that eventually, she will walk off and find her own friend. Handle this carefully and the results will be that this kid will come to trust you

Yes, this is a wise way of looking at it.

Stal2, no point being angry about how close they are to each other ... She will always be his beloved daughter. That's a given.

But if she is a typical teenager, she will grow up and start to have relationships with people her own age. It's just a matter of time.

Reduce your anger. Find some way to relax. And good luck is coming to you! Someone is going to give you 2,100 tortoise shells -- or the modern equivalent -- really soon. And that is true wealth :)
 

stal2

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Hello Stal,

The ICs original response is that 'diminishing one's affliction' will follow 41.3, thereafter you'll
have a situation of 'to partnering belongs a tortoise, spring significant, the origin above shielding
indeed' being one of the most auspicious lines in Hex 41.

Such a response is reassuring, however when one asks basically the same question again on the
same day, one might receive a contradiction, hence 8.3. The next question further contradicts
and reinforces the original response, by informing you that you've approached a 'mature stag'
hence caution is advised, and thereafter the picture is one of union 'significant, brightness indeed'.
Hex 3 depicts a new beginning involving difficulties such as 'the growth of a tender shoot piercing
through the soil'. (The Original I Ching: Ritsema & Sabbadini)

Something might happen. Wait and see. I wouldn't suggest you leave. Teenagers, especially girls
in relation to their fathers do have such a reaction - quite natural. If you could somehow show
her that your intention is not to 'take away' her Dad and that you're sincere and well meaning she
may change her attitude. Perhaps when she's around focus on her, show interest in her life and
activities - become friends.
Hope you'll manage to work things out.

Thank you so much, themis. Now I think I understand better what the iching is trying to tell me. I am still a little worried about 8.3, but since you said it might be just a contradiction, I would rather take it this way instead of thinking anything negative.
 

stal2

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Yes, this is a wise way of looking at it.

Stal2, no point being angry about how close they are to each other ... She will always be his beloved daughter. That's a given.

But if she is a typical teenager, she will grow up and start to have relationships with people her own age. It's just a matter of time.

Reduce your anger. Find some way to relax. And good luck is coming to you! Someone is going to give you 2,100 tortoise shells -- or the modern equivalent -- really soon. And that is true wealth :)

Please know that I am not a "reader" or anything like a psychic but I do have life's experience as well as a dep faith in the I Ching to guide us. Please take my comments as given with the best of intentions but I make no claims as to my "accuracy".
Hex 41 means reducing that which is too much. Thomas Cleary says: "stopping desires".
I take is to mean "diminishing excess". Now one way to dimish excess is to give away what you don't need. Make a sacrifice. (I've been doing a lot of reading about this) :bows:

I can very much relate to the behavior of the man's daughter here. She feels she is being displaced by the changes in her father's relationship to her mother. She feels like she is loosing Dad to you. Her feelings of jealousy have to be addressed and she has to be reassured that she remains in her correct place "as his beloved daughter" and that it is Mother that is being displaced and not her.
She has to be told that she is not only not at fault but that her mother's I father's problems are not hers and that she, in spite of what Mom might be saying, does not have to take sides. She has to be firmly told where her relationship boundaries with her father are - by him, not you.

This is where reduction comes in for you. You must never become someone who takes him away from her when she needs him more. You are the adult here and if you take this on, you're going to have to make some concessions and sacrifices in your expectations of romance and fantasy. Get grounded and get real about what you're going to give up in order to help this child grow through this period of time without damage to her or your relationship with him. I think line three is telling you that you are three people walking and that eventually, she will walk off and find her own friend. Handle this carefully and the results will be that this kid will come to trust you and grow out of her very negative emotional position towards a healthier one. Hex 3 is saying this might be hard at first but persevere.

Mostly, I'm simply telling you what my gut says to. Been there, got the tee-shirt and sold it at a yard sale. Being a step-parent can be the pits if you think you're going to waltz in and take Mom's place. Make the place your own in a very compassionate way and your guy will will think you're his savior :)

Thanks for Mariah Kaze's suggestion and ginnie's reconfirmation. At some point I do think it's really hard for me to accept the situation, and start having doubts about the relationship. So I think you guys' suggestions will definitely help me a lot in dealing with my current situation.
 

mariah kaze

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Thank you so much, themis. Now I think I understand better what the iching is trying to tell me. I am still a little worried about 8.3, but since you said it might be just a contradiction, I would rather take it this way instead of thinking anything negative.

Your 8.3 is more in-depth instruction from the and reflects what you say about
"At some point I do think it's really hard for me to accept the situation, and start having doubts about the relationship. So I think you guys' suggestions will definitely help me a lot in dealing with my current situation."

Hex 87 is about finding/using your inner strength and unity and somewhere in there are your doubts about this relationship. Are you taking on more than you can handle? Are your expectations of yourself and the relationships realistic here? Finding inner unity to face the job ahead *is* difficult in the beginning. This *is* a big challenge and the way won't go smoothly at first. The 39 simply says that until you remove your objections and and dig into your own feelings about this girl, you are going to have a hard time. It does not say to leave, it says to be realistic with yourself, find your inner strength and make a commitment to the higher good of all concerned. Know that it all works out for the best no matter how it turns out and just do your best. :bows:
 

themis

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Stal,

Adopt a different attitude towards the teen. Surely you realise she needs reassurance re. her
place vis à vis her Dad. Enjoy her company, show interest in her life and she'll open up to you.
What ensues will benefit all three of you, the relationship will be more harmonious and her
feelings of insecurity and betrayal will vanish with time. Take it one step at a time ... tread
carefully.
 

ginnie

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I asked iching again about if it's telling me I should leave him. I got 8.3 to hexagram 39.

Sometimes when we get 8.3 it means that person can be of no assistance to us, given what we need.

I think of hexagram 8 as cooperation. When we need something, we cooperate.

The father is obviously not going to cooperate with you against his own daughter. That doesn't make any sense.

As to what else that 8.3 reading may signify -- I wouldn't ignore it. I don't believe the I Ching contradicts itself in alternate questions. I think the I Ching might be telling you not to rely too much on this man, because his ability to be your good buddy might indeed be quite limited, more so than you understand at this time.
 

stal2

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Stal,

Adopt a different attitude towards the teen. Surely you realise she needs reassurance re. her
place vis à vis her Dad. Enjoy her company, show interest in her life and she'll open up to you.
What ensues will benefit all three of you, the relationship will be more harmonious and her
feelings of insecurity and betrayal will vanish with time. Take it one step at a time ... tread
carefully.

Sometimes when we get 8.3 it means that person can be of no assistance to us, given what we need.

I think of hexagram 8 as cooperation. When we need something, we cooperate.

The father is obviously not going to cooperate with you against his own daughter. That doesn't make any sense.

As to what else that 8.3 reading may signify -- I wouldn't ignore it. I don't believe the I Ching contradicts itself in alternate questions. I think the I Ching might be telling you not to rely too much on this man, because his ability to be your good buddy might indeed be quite limited, more so than you understand at this time.

Thanks for both of your helps and advises.

themis: I didn't even realize she might think I am taking away her father. I'll try to pay more attention to her in the future.

ginnie: It makes a lot of sense. Hopefully that's really it's implying.
 

willowfox

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Line 41.3 and now 8.3 says it all.

You are in with the wrong people, and therefore you will be forced out sooner or later. The kid doesn't like you and will turn her father against you for sure, its just a matter of time before the big bang occurs and it will.
 

stal2

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Line 41.3 and now 8.3 says it all.

You are in with the wrong people, and therefore you will be forced out sooner or later. The kid doesn't like you and will turn her father against you for sure, its just a matter of time before the big bang occurs and it will.

Then how would you relate 41.4 and 41.5, which came with 41.3. I appreciate you're trying to help me with the interpretation. But I just don't think it's a good idea you only focused on the negative part. Sorry if I sound defensive.

Also, I won't be replying this post anymore because I pretty much got my answer. Thanks for everyone who has tried to help here.
 

willowfox

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Then how would you relate 41.4 and 41.5, which came with 41.3. I appreciate you're trying to help me with the interpretation. But I just don't think it's a good idea you only focused on the negative part. Sorry if I sound defensive.

You are being defensive as its an answer that you don't want to hear. The other lines come after and will relate to other events further into the future.

I focused on the negative part because this will be the thing that happens first, and its the answer to your problem as you will see, as I cannot see the daughter leaving can you? If she did then all your problems would be solved.
 

themis

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"The initial oracle-consulting notifies. Twice, thrice obscuring. Obscuring, by consequence
not notifying". (Ritsema & Sabbadini)

Hope you'll provide an update sometime in the future ... good news !
 

willowfox

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My question is in line 3, which I think the three people are me, my bf, and his daughter, although I am not 100% sure. The reason why I think his daughter is the third person is because a lot of fights between me and my bf within this one month caused by his daughter. His daughter is a teenager, she gives me attitude sometimes, guess it's because she doesn't like her dad has girlfriends (my bf told me she wants him to hang out with her mom). And my bf never says anything when he sees that, he told me she has her right of having opinion. Plus, when we three hang out, my bf only pays attention to her, and she seems like his gf more than I do. And I can tell she's trying to make me jealous sometimes. I understand that's his daughter, but it's hard to control that weird feeling, especially when I see him does small talks with his daughter.

Three people, he and she are related, they are family, you are the outsider, the person in the background. There is already jealousy, and other problems here, blood is thicker than water as you will find out in due course, as you are pushed further and further away.

But the golden lining is that when you eventually give up, then you will find another guy, the right one next time.

I'm only saying what I see, so no point in getting uptight with me as I'm neutral, and its not my life, so its up to you whether you wish to listen or not, if you don't then no problem for me.
 

seethis

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Give yourself enough time to work this out. Don't listen too much what other people say, since they don't know how you feel insight. You have to make your own judgement! I thought this is what the resulting line of your first oracle was, wasn't it #1? Trust your own judgement!
 

ginnie

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41: Something needs to be CLEARED

I recently asked iching about my relationship situation between me and my boyfriend. And I got hexagram 41 with changing line 3, 4, and 5. I understand the explanations for line 4 and 5. My question is in line 3.

A further thought: When we get hexagram 41, there is something that needs to be CLEARED before actions can be taken.

Since you got 41.3, the "three's a crowd line," then you cannot progress until one of the three leaves. That may not happen instantly. It can take some time for 41.3 to work itself out.

Several people have said that the daughter will grow up and start to live her own life soon enough. But this triad of man, his daughter, and woman is not stable, because jealousy arises within it, as you have described.

The fourth line advises you to reduce what's making you feel sick. If you are actually ill, this means to see a doctor.

The fifth line says you will have good advice. :)
 

seethis

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With 41.3,4,5 chaning to 1, I feel that their is a process unfolding which says that you are struggling with the situation you describe and find your own standing it it. Line 3 seems to point to you, your boyfriend and his daughter, causing you difficulties of finding your own place from where to act. Line 4 possibly points to the fact that you should find the right policy forward to cure the sickness. Line 4 also advices you to deal with your own stuff in this complicated relationship, which in turn would relate to Line 3, advising you to walk alone in order to find someone appropriate. To walk alone (as line 3 suggests) doesn't necessarily mean to leave the whole situation but might only mean that you need to make your own, independent, assessment of the situation. Line 5 points to a solution of your problem by higher means. Relating this back to what I said about the process unfolding in Line 3 and Line 4 (all in the position of moving from the lower to the higher trigram) suggests that you will be successful in solving this, either by leaving the whole situation or by finding your own, independent, standing in it. The resulting Hexagram 1 also points to such success. However, it is you who needs to do the assessment and work but also that you get some really good advice on the way to achieve that. In this way decrease leads potentially to increase. Please bare in mind that the teenage girl is the girld and and that you and your boyfriends are the fully grown in this relationship. This is a big challange for you because you are on your own there, meaning the step mother, while father and daughter are in a way more together. To rise to such a challange is indead a huge resonsibility, not moral terms but in terms of your own personal development - are you ready for this? What ever you decide, to leave or to stay, needs to be worked out by yourself but Line 5 and the resulting hexagram succest that you are capable of working this out indead! Good luck with it.
 

arabella

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I realise it's an old fashioned idea by a mile, but you aren't the stepmother, you are the step-girlfriend, if there is such a thing. Your position is by far the weakest in the scenario and the thin edge of the wedge is there, which will continue to expand the gap between you and this man. I don't think the oracle could be clearer than 41.3. Maybe not that you should get up and run today, but be prepared to realise that your future is elsewhere. I would imagine, this man is going to have the same problem with anyone who comes into the situation and that it's not just an issue with you. If he wants to succeed with a future relationship he needs to prepare the ground better at home to welcome a woman in. If he has girlfriends, not a wife, I predict he can expect more of the same as any teenaged girl is going to perceive a girlfriend "adversary" as expendable to her father as well. It's going to take marriage and maturity to put this girl in a comfortable place.
 

arabella

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Here we go. This is exactly the situation and I hope LiSe doesn't mind my copying a bit of her commentary for 41.3, but it explains precisely what you need to know:

6 at 3: Three people moving, then the rule is one person is diminished. One person moving, then the rule is one finds a friend. Everybody creates his own future by what he acquires and what he discards. Amassing, whether of things or of people, means diminishing spirituality and individuality. Two is company, three is a crowd. Relying on spiritual exchange instead of crowds of things or people opens the door for real emotions and contact.

You need to establish your own spiritual basis and rest on that. If you have no spiritual connection with your boyfriend and this young woman then you need to proceed on your own terms elsewhere. Your spiritual basis is already weakened because a father/child relationship has far more spiritual power than a boyfriend/girlfriend tie. I think this is the crux of the matter and will prove to be true, if not now, then over time. Wishing you all the best with a tough decision, Arabella
 

ginnie

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Maybe there's a website online or a forum you can join about this issue Stal2. It must be a common situation these days. :)
 

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