hexagram 12 and buying of a dog

[yamabushi]

My young friend neighbor asked me to ask how he can convince his parents to buy him a dog.
I asked Yi that question and answer was h 12 unchanging.
My advice was that he will not be able to do that but he can try it to ask with humillity.
Boy come 30 min later crying and tell me that parents refuse him.
Then he ask me to ask his parents to do it, I told him that I can try but I dont see much hope.
Suprisingly, they agree very easily


Now, i m confused...why Yi answered with 12 and didnt advice to find helpers or something like that?

 

[steve]

Hi
his parents refuse right? also 12 unchanging
I dont think it will happen at the moment
you are right the first time

seems his parents value your opinion so now the situation is changed

Did your hear the saying leave sleeping dogs lie?

Steve

 

[Trojina]

My young friend neighbor asked me to ask how he can convince his parents to buy him a dog.
I asked Yi that question and answer was h 12 unchanging.
My advice was that he will not be able to do that but he can try it to ask with humillity.
Boy come 30 min later crying and tell me that parents refuse him.
Then he ask me to ask his parents to do it, I told him that I can try but I dont see much hope.
Suprisingly, they agree very easily


Now, i m confused...why Yi answered with 12 and didnt advice to find helpers or something like that?

its a bit worrying that they agreed just because you asked them. A dog is a big commitment and presumably they had good reason to refuse the child. Perhaps they don't have the means to take care of it ? Or perhaps they know the child will cry over it this week and lose interest in caring for the dog next week ?

Perhaps the 12 isn't about the denial of the request but the fact that actually them having a dog is not a good thing. ?

Not good for the dog and not good for them ?

I could be wrong but it seems an odd situation to me that you should ask/try to convince the parents....and that they should give in to you when they refused the child.


Puzzled as to why you tried to convince them...though that is out of the bounds of the question I suppose. perhaps they just value your judgement.....

...or perhaps the 12 indicates that though they say they will get a dog they won't. I often find 12 unchanging refers to absolutely no movement on a matter regardless of how much people talk about it

 

[yamabushi]

I also think that situation changed as possible explanation

Dog should come today, and I know that kid will take care for him, if dog come it is very worrying for my look on Yi ching.
My actions are very often based on advice from Yi ching, in any case if I obtain 12 unchanging I would leave the situation for a while...
Now, i cant be sure...

 

[steve]

i Agree trojan
its a firm no in my opinion
hahaha odd situaition

Steve

 

[kevin]

You asked how he could persuade his parents and got 12, yes?
And he could not persuade them.
Yes?
Am I splitting hairs?

I wonder what images of the question you were holding in your heartmind as you consulted Yi.

 

[pocossin]

I also think that situation changed as possible explanation

Dog should come today, and I know that kid will take care for him, if dog come it is very worrying for my look on Yi ching.
My actions are very often based on advice from Yi ching, in any case if I obtain 12 unchanging I would leave the situation for a while...
Now, i cant be sure...

Your discouragement is entirely justified because your method is defective. Fortunetelling is not divination. To the extent that you fortunetell, you should expect failure. I heartily recommend to you this essay by the the scholar Angela Voss:

http://cura.free.fr/decem/10voss.html
The Astrology of Marsilio Ficino: Divination or Science?

 

[Trojina]

I also think that situation changed as possible explanation

Dog should come today, and I know that kid will take care for him, if dog come it is very worrying for my look on Yi ching.My actions are very often based on advice from Yi ching, in any case if I obtain 12 unchanging I would leave the situation for a while...
Now, i cant be sure...

Okay I think we need to hear from the dog, get his (or her) perspective on this.

If he arrives later perhaps you could ask him to log in to Clarity to give his perspective on his new owners and his recent change of fortune.... and if he knows the Yi how he feels he can relate to hex 12 at this time

 

[yamabushi]

Your discouragement is entirely justified because your method is defective. Fortunetelling is not divination. To the extent that you fortunetell, you should expect failure. I heartily recommend to you this essay by the the scholar Angela Voss:

http://cura.free.fr/decem/10voss.html
The Astrology of Marsilio Ficino: Divination or Science?

Thank you Tom,

I will read article detaily, but why do you think that my method is defective, I asked advice for boy, I dont think that was fortunetelling.
Btw, I have very good experience with fortunetelling and Yi ching. Every time when I asked what will happened in the future answer was 100 % correct. Sometimes it took couple of months, but it was always correct it the end.
One student of Rudolf Ritsema told me that he found Yi ching better for looking at the future then any form of astrology...

 

[yamabushi]

Okay I think we need to hear from the dog, get his (or her) perspective on this.

If he arrives later perhaps you could ask him to log in to Clarity to give his perspective on his new owners and his recent change of fortune.... and if he knows the Yi how he feels he can relate to hex 12 at this time

Well, dog is in next yard and he look very happy

 

[yamabushi]

You asked how he could persuade his parents and got 12, yes?
And he could not persuade them.
Yes?
Am I splitting hairs?

I wonder what images of the question you were holding in your heartmind as you consulted Yi.

I was thinking about his parents and asked in my heartmind how he can convince them

 

[Trojina]

Well, dog is in next yard and he look very happy

well then he is the dog who defied the I Ching

 

[Trojina]

BTW for along time now I have wondered what that is a picture of in your avatar Yamabushi ? I can't make out what it is ?

 

[steve]

I am starting to think the original situation was 12 no and also the parents DID origfinally say no so the Yi was correct
but when Yambushi asked the parents the whole situation did a back flip for some unknown reason
Perhaps its an example of how a quickly the situation can change. If yambushi consulted the yi after the parents said no and aske what if i ask them, interesting what the reading would have been

Steve

 

[Trojina]

I am starting to think the original situation was 12 no and also the parents DID origfinally say no so the Yi was correct
but when Yambushi asked the parents the whole situation did a back flip for some unknown reason
Perhaps its an example of how a quickly the situation can change. If yambushi consulted the yi after the parents said no and aske what if i ask them, interesting what the reading would have been

Steve

Yes I agree. I think the Yi often tends to give answers to the question of the moment and we can sometimes get lost when we try to make an answer sort of last longer than that

Still there is some mystery with this


I think its a great thread...and I like the fact it has a happy ending with a happy dog in the yard next door

 

[yamabushi]

I am starting to think the original situation was 12 no and also the parents DID origfinally say no so the Yi was correct
but when Yambushi asked the parents the whole situation did a back flip for some unknown reason
Perhaps its an example of how a quickly the situation can change. If yambushi consulted the yi after the parents said no and aske what if i ask them, interesting what the reading would have been

Steve

I agree with you completly. Sometimes situation change very quickly.
And because I was just reader Yi did not include me in the situation
I think that h 3 unchanging could also be good advice in that situation.

 

[yamabushi]

BTW for along time now I have wondered what that is a picture of in your avatar Yamabushi ? I can't make out what it is ?

That is yamabushi, japanese warrior esoteric cast who practised magic rituals...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamabushi

 

[Trojina]

That is yamabushi, japanese warrior esoteric cast who practised magic rituals...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamabushi

I thought it looked something like an extractor fan I can't actually see much except sort of a fan thing...really for some reason it also made me think of one of those fan contraptions for trapping flies

Perhaps everyone else can see a warrior...i see an extractor fan

Is the warrior facing us or does he have his back turned ?

 

[pocossin]

I can't actually see much except sort of a fan thing

I think the objects sticking out are weapons -- a sword and in his hands a halbard. At the bottom shoes are visible under a white robe. The yamabushi appears to be wearing a backpack, and the face is concealed as is appropriate for these mysterious ones. The view is from the back right but the face is partly toward the observer.

 

[sooo]

I thought it was a traditional samurai warrior.

 

[sooo]

Now, i m confused...why Yi answered with 12 and didnt advice to find helpers or something like that?

12 was never intended to be 12 forever. The standoff with the boy's parent may have been 12. If you stand on your head, you get 11.

 

[Trojina]

I think the objects sticking out are weapons -- a sword and in his hands a halbard. At the bottom shoes are visible under a white robe. The yamabushi appears to be wearing a backpack, and the face is concealed as is appropriate for these mysterious ones. The view is from the back right but the face is partly toward the observer.

Face ? Backpack ?

What then is the dark stripe around what would be the knee area ? I see what looks like a sort of laser beam emanating from what could be a hand

 

[Trojina]

BTW Tom, while we are on the topic, what the heck is chingchings avatar meant to be ? I can't make head nor tail of it. Is it a landscape ?

I'm wondering why i can't see because my eyes are okay, maybe its my computer

 

[pocossin]

Face ? Backpack ?

What then is the dark stripe around what would be the knee area ? I see what looks like a sort of laser beam emanating from what could be a hand

My impression is that the yamabushi is in front of a railing as on a ship or fortification. The dark part of his/her clothing could be a dark lower garment or armor. The 'lazer beam' may be the blade of a halberd, a lazer beam -- if this is a science fiction yamabushi, or a projection of the yamabushi's magical power. Maybe Yamabushi will tell us.

 

[pocossin]

BTW Tom, while we are on the topic, what the heck is chingchings avatar meant to be ? I can't make head nor tail of it. Is it a landscape ?

Yes, I think its a landscape of a thatched cottage with shrubs and trees, and all is covered by a rainbow. It is dark above the rainbow and bright below. The tree on the far left looks like a baobab or oak.

 

[Trojina]

Yes, I think its a landscape of a thatched cottage with shrubs and trees, and all is covered by a rainbow. It is dark above the rainbow and bright below. The tree on the far left looks like a baobab or oak.

Good grief Tom your eyes must be made of different stuff to mine. I can't see any of that.

 

[pocossin]

Good grief Tom your eyes must be made of different stuff to mine. I can't see any of that.

There's more in the picture. Chingching's avatar is part of her heart -- represents her ideals -- just as Yamabushi's avatar represents his ideals. And that relates to the topic of this thread: "why Yi answered with 12 and didnt advice to find helpers or something like that?" Yamabushi took 12 as a 'No' and didn't look at the heart of the situation, which didn't matter because his humanity turned 'No' into a 'Yes'.

 

[yamabushi]

This is a much better picture;

http://www.worldofjapan.net/2011/04/yamabushi/

 

[yamabushi]

There's more in the picture. Chingching's avatar is part of her heart -- represents her ideals -- just as Yamabushi's avatar represents his ideals. And that relates to the topic of this thread: "why Yi answered with 12 and didnt advice to find helpers or something like that?" Yamabushi took 12 as a 'No' and didn't look at the heart of the situation, which didn't matter because his humanity turned 'No' into a 'Yes'.

Tom,

as we know, my ideals and humanity make me lot of troubles...

 

[pocossin]

. . . as we know, my ideals and humanity make me lot of troubles...

Even so, you are well armed for dealing with them.