Hexagram 13 - job-searching

[french_taoist]

Hello everybody!

As you probably have noticed, I am new to this forum. My name is Christophe. Here is some background info about myself. I am French. I went to college in the US (major: Business Management) a few years ago, went back to France to look for a job, couldn't find any. My wife (who is American) and I decided to settle down in the US. I have been looking for a job in the US since the beginning of March, my job-hunting here is going better than in France but, still, I'll take all the help I can get. Lately, I have been consulting the I Ching a lot regarding my job-searching. My question was: "at this point, what could improve my chances to find a satisfactory job?"

The response I got was a single hexagram, #13 "Fellowship with men"

I sense this response could be very important for me and the direction I may give to my future career. The thing is, I find this hexagram could mean several possible things in my situation. This is exactly what I find confusing. I have thought maybe, you guys, could help me somewhat sort things out so I can get a clearer picture (more Clarity ;-) of what the hexagram could mean in my situation.

here are the 4 possible meanings I came up with:
- develop networking
- work in the social field or for a non-profit organization or work for the community
- work in an organization that shares the same values as I do or is managed by like-minded people
- support of family and friends

Thank you so much for your help.

Have a great day!

 

[candid]

French_Taoist, I think your 4 possible meanings are excellent. Also consider the spirit in which you go out to meet with these people. True fellowship isn't self-interest based but focuses on the good of the whole. This small distinction makes a huge difference. Its actually a rare commodity and generally well received.

Best wishes with your search. Welcome to Clarity, and to the US!

 

[RindaR]

Welcome, from another who is fairly new here too. I think the answers you came up are confusing only if you approach them thinking that only one is right. Finding something that meets all these criteria sounds like a wonderful thing! You might consider something like these ideas if you haven't already ;-) -

-check with family and friends for ideas about specific jobs that might meet your criteria

-volunteer in local not-for-profits to develop networking and to get ideas about which work environment you like best, or to get word of upcoming vacancies, and to get some extra experience here

An example might be to work up a simple presentation about French culture (songs? visual aids? food?) and volunteer to give it at local elementary schools.

Hope this is helpful-

Rinda

 

[heylise]

Hex.13 includes not only working with or for people, but also 'recognizing' people, or the things people do or wish or think.
"The noble one classifies the clans and reads the trails of creatures".

Maybe it adds something to your meanings. It is possible to get hex.13 when there is nobody around to do anything for.

To me it seems a great one for business management, but I don't know much about it, so I have no idea what specific part of this it could be.

LiSe

 

[french_taoist]

Candid, thanks. That is indeed a major distinction!...which has sort of escaped me. Thank you for your warm welcome. I feel honored to be a new member of your community.

 

[french_taoist]

Rinda, thanks for your inspiring ideas! Helping me re-uniting these 4 possible meanings, may help me get back on the right track, I think.
As I said to Candid, I am very happy to be a new member of your community.

 

[french_taoist]

Lise, thanks. It's true the hexagram has also this other meaning. That could well mean a career in recruitment or career consulting.;-) I'm going to give it some more thinking.

 

[french_taoist]

Hello everybody,

I hope you guys are well?
A few days ago, I asked the I Ching a question regarding my job-searching. It would be awesome if you could help me interpret the hexagrams I got.
Upon asking the I Ching what were the odds for me to get hired by the rental car company I have an interview with next week, I got the following answer from the I Ching:
Hex. 16.1 moving to hex. 51.

I am not quite sure if that is good or bad or if there are some kind of warning. As you probably know, it is not always easy to see through things clearly when you're so involved.

Thanks a lot for any insights you can give me!

 

[cheiron]

Hi FT

I have emailed a short reply to you.

Hope thats OK

--Kevin

 

[cheiron]

Hi FT

Still thinking and getting a slightly different perspective.

16 as a whole is very positive.

Crudely the Judgement might be expressed as ?Go for it ? Success?

The first line is a Yin line in a Yang place ? it is also in a relationship with the Yang in the 4th place ? on which it is dependant.

Thus various commentaries refer to its weak position and dependency.

Some commentaries point to the fact that because it enjoys this support it is prone to arrogance and others that it is prone to dependence.

I prefer the ?prone to dependence? view as it is changing to a correct Yang line in a Yang place? Thus it is, by its change, becoming independent and heralding the time of the resulting hexagram.

I would regard the ?Misfortune? part of that lines oracle as a warning to pay attention - not as an outcome.

Its fault is to ?call out? either for help or to prate its greatness.

I suspect that the lesson in this line is that of quietly developing ones independence or of taking control of ones progress in this matter.

This will enable the time of Thunder ? Momentous change.

Wishing you the best of fortune in this.

--Kevin

 

[jte]

Hi, FT -

I think that if you get the job, you'll understandably be quite pleased. Maybe the 16.1 comes as a reminder that getting the job is the beginning of the journey, not the end - it'll take some adjusting and coming to terms with the responsibilities, expectations, and social environment.

Just a thought, hope it helps. Oh, and I also love the name ...

- Jeff

 

[french_taoist]

Hello Kevin,

thanks so much for your help. I think your interpretation has given me a new approach to the situation. My approach was more pessimistic and lacked sophistication. Dependence (mainly financial), rather than arrogance, is a keyword here indeed! Becoming independent is one of the main motivators for me to find a job as promptly as possible.
BTW, in none of my translations or guides (Wilhelm, Huang, R. L. Wing) the idea of dependency appears, they only warn against turning arrogant.
Would you personally recommend Karcher's translation over any other one?

Thank you so much for your help and your kindness!

-- Christophe/French_Taoist

 

[french_taoist]

Hi Jeff,

Your fresh perspective on the situation is much appreciated. I cannot believe how much more optimistic (than mine) your interpretations are, guys! ;-)
I'm glad my username is so popular! ;-D
Thank you.

-- Christophe/French_Taoist

 

[french_taoist]

Hello again everyone,

A few days ago, I consulted the I Ching again about the same interview. However, I have difficulty to grasp the relevance of the answer (not of the hexagrams individually though) to my situation. There might even be some connections between the answer I got to my prior question and this one...but what and how is beyond me.
My question was: "What could improve my chances to be successful at that job interview?"
I got the following response: hex. 64.6 moving to hex. 40

Thank you for your help in advance!

 

[cheiron]

Hi Christophe

I like Huang and Willhelm... I would also recommend Karcher 2002 as well as it gives a brief gloss on each word. Chinese characters have more than one meaning and any translation into single words is limited by the author?s choice. The 'gloss' allows one to play with the meaning of the text a little more... feel ones way into it...

I think your last reading is saying you are not quite there yet... have a glass of wine and relax

Of course it does help to be relaxed at interviews - enables the energy to flow.

This will lead to the time when you will be able to untie the knots and find deliverance.

Sorry this is so brief... got to run.

All the best

--Kevin

 

[cheiron]

Oh, I forgot... 64.6 is the time at the end of 'Not quite there yet'.

'Soaking one's head' - Is, I think, a word play on getting drunk and getting ones head wet in the crossing. A bit of Yijing author's humour.

BTW - 'Not knowing' in that line and 'articulating indeed' is wonderfully Daoist interview advice

--K

 

[cheiron]

Sorry re edit to both posts - please read online.

It was Karcher 2002 BTW

--Kevin

 

[candid]

line 6: In a job interview it is good when both parties can relax and communicate well, but its important to not let your guard down entirely and sound too familiar, or to give out too much personal information. Keep it warm but reserved and professional.

 

[french_taoist]

Kevin,

Thanks for your help. Today was my job interview. I think it went pretty well. I hope the outcome will meet my expectations. I should know in a week.

I definitely would be interested in the brief gloss that Karcher 2002 gives. I am not sure what you meant in your last post. Are you saying that there is a online version of Karcher's translation 2002, free of copyrights?

How long have you been studying/consulting with the I Ching, may I ask?

Warm Regards,

-- Christophe/French Taoist

 

[french_taoist]

Candid,

thanks for your very practical and to-the-point interpretations! Very helpful.

BTW, do you have any favorite translation?

PS yeah, I almost forgot, APART FROM my nervousness, my interview went pretty well.

Christophe/French_Taoist

 

[cheiron]

Hi Christophe

No Karcher 2002 is paper only I am afraid.

Bradford has generously posted his work online? Including a gloss. Be warned it can be a little overwhelming at first ? but very well worth the trouble: http://www.hermetica.info

Also there is another by Chris Freeling ? no gloss but he has a great feel for the text and its meaning (It is based on the Legge Translation) http://www.mindsports.net/I_Ching_Connexion/JavaVersion/Introduction/FrameIntComp.html

Finally there is Steve Marshall ? Not an I Ching but a lot of very good research on some of the myths and possible meanings of various parts of the I Ching ? I regard it as an essential read:

S Marshall ?The Mandate of Heaven? 2000 Columbia Univ. Press.

He also has a Website which is in a different vein: http://www.yijing.btinternet.co.uk/index.htm

Still wishing you the best

--Kevin

PS ? Quite few years ? but I seemed to progress faster since reading Clarity and using more than just Willhelm ? So much more to learn though

 

[candid]

French_Taoist,

I still rely on the Wilhelm. Not that its better but its what I grew up with, and it just speaks to me. I also use LiSe's quite a bit to cast a different light on readings, often enlightening. But more than anything I base readings off of how they've played out over time according to my own experiences with them. Overall, I don't seek to expand upon meanings but to reduce meanings to essence. For me, that makes specific practical applications unfold more organically.

Best wishes on your interview results.

 

[french_taoist]

Kevin,

thanks for all these valuable resources! I do agree with you that the hermetica website by Bradford looks a little overwhelming at first...but I'm sure there must be a lot of wisdom hidden there! ;-)

I must say that since I have become a member of clarity, reading the posts, interacting with other members, and the available materials has broadened my horizons with regard to my relationship with the I Ching...

Candid,

Thanks. I very much share your approach regarding seeking the essence of things and that of the I Ching in particular. I instinctly look for the essence of things...it is my natural 'method' for trying to make sense of the universe around me.

In your opinion, what specifically LiSe's version brings that others don't have? Is it the part about the meanings of the Chinese ideograms?


To both of you and others...

A strictly theoretical question:

According to you, which of the following is the strongest influence in the I Ching: Taoism, Buddhism, or Confucianism?

Thank you-

-- Christophe/French_Taoist

 

[candid]

Hi Christophe,

For me, LiSe presents a more opened approach, less legalistic and more optimistic. Whether this is a result of her work on ideograms or her Tao-like insight, or both, it speaks - and it speaks with a definitive Yin voice as apposed to say Wilhelm's distinctive Yang voice. That's why the two together work well for me. I don't agree with every gua or change line in either translation/interpretation though, but one or the other will spark the idea needed to materialize the application. Which also addresses your second question to all. For me, Wilhelm is Confucian while LiSe is Taoist. But both are more than these definitions.

I?m sure there are other very good translations/interpretations out there. I?ve read some of Bradford?s work and its insightful to say the least. I?ve dabbled in several, but work best with just one or two teachers or text references. So rather than confuse myself with several versions, I stick to the one(s) that will build upon the same framework, which ultimately develops my own framework for understanding Yi.

C