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Hexagram 14 Unchanging for Life Changing Experience

arabella

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I've enquired of the Yi -- What can I do to improve my life?

The casting: Hexgram 14 unchanging, which would indicate to me that there is enormous potential I'm not seeing; something signfiicant I'm not using or tuned into.

I propose that we make this open to anything anybody would like to offer from either of two prevalent points of view on Shared Readings:

1. Simply based on knowledge of the Yi Ching as it is written OR
2. Based on all of our acquaintance, prior postings I've made, and anything you know about the details of my situation.

When answering, would you please say which approach you are using -- the first or the second? I think the difference of interpretation might be instructive toward the future, a delineation of what we take entirely from the Yi and what we infer because we know somebody and we are doing our best to be helpful.

This is something of a follow-on from a thread just posted by Precision Grace where this happened more or less spontaneously and got tangled a bit. I'm hoping we can clarify where readings separate between pure Yi and more personal. :hug: Arabella
 
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ginnie

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Hi Arabella
I think "improving one's life," as an endeavor, is extremely large in scope. I think that's why Yi responded with an unchanging hexagram which is sometimes called Sovereignty.

Perhaps the meaning is that it's all up to you, according to what kinds of improvements you were thinking of.
:)
 

arabella

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Hi Arabella
I think "improving one's life," as an endeavor, is extremely large in scope. I think that's why Yi responded with an unchanging hexagram which is sometimes called Sovereignty.

Perhaps the meaning is that it's all up to you, according to what kinds of improvements you were thinking of.
:)

Thanks Ginnie. So you are using approach number one -- right from the Yi text with no reference to my "life's story" as it appears on Clarity.

Do you think that hexagram 14 makes reference to any particular area of life? For instance, Hex 14 generally comes up for me in relation to material resources and I'm wondering if the hexagram, especially in an unchanging form, could say there is a need to capitalise on every material resource.
 

dragona

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it is hard to just judge by the unchanged hex..people usualy use some background to put things in some sor of a context.
 

Trojina

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I've enquired of the Yi -- What can I do to improve my life?

The casting: Hexgram 14 unchanging, which would indicate to me that there is enormous potential I'm not seeing; something signfiicant I'm not using or tuned into.

I propose that we make this open to anything anybody would like to offer from either of two prevalent points of view on Shared Readings:

1. Simply based on knowledge of the Yi Ching as it is written OR
2. Based on all of our acquaintance, prior postings I've made, and anything you know about the details of my situation.

When answering, would you please say which approach you are using -- the first or the second? I think the difference of interpretation might be instructive toward the future, a delineation of what we take entirely from the Yi and what we infer because we know somebody and we are doing our best to be helpful.

This is something of a follow-on from a thread just posted by Precision Grace where this happened more or less spontaneously and got tangled a bit. I'm hoping we can clarify where readings separate between pure Yi and more personal. :hug: Arabella

I'd see it as nice answer...to use what you have for you have much and to appreciate what you have for you have much. It is an answer of fullness and possession, you are in possession...know that and :)


Now if someone comes along and says this 'qualifies' you to have a relationship with a man :rolleyes: or this is all about your relationship with a man or that you need a man to improve your life... I will ........writhe about in disbelief, anguish and laughter.

I mean not that a man never improved a womans life.....lord knows they are very handy around the house ;):rofl:

You don't need nothing from nobody, pardon the grammar, you Have. 14 is Big Having which includes all kinds of things...everything a soul can hold, all manner of riches to share with and receive from. So if anything its advice to improve your life by being really aware of how rich you are and sharing that...and being open to receive what is offered you also

what a great answer. I think its very general...and quite a spiritual answer. Celebrate all you have in all areas of your life


I think with this particular answer it would be quite hard to take into account your previous posts...because its quite a definate, general sort of answer. Knowing something of you cannot help but influence what I write of course...like as I write about how wealthy you are I'm aware you have had money problems so wealth can be a hard word to use....and I know you had/have interest in a man...but still you have this interest whilst already being full and complete yourself.


I don't think theres a problem with taking peoples previous posts into account...they are a whole person..we do see them in context....but with PGs thread I was pretty lost about all the man advice. I ended up thinking it sounded like people thought she should just stick her hand out of the front door and pull in the nearest passing stranger...but maybe we said enough about that...mileage variability taken into account
 
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arabella

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I'd see it as nice answer...to use what you have for you have much and to appreciate what you have for you have much. It is an answer of fullness and possession, you are in possession...know that and :)


Now if someone comes along and says this 'qualifies' you to have a relationship with a man :rolleyes: or this is all about your relationship with a man or that you need a man to improve your life... I will ........writhe about in disbelief, anguish and laughter.

I mean not that a man never improved a womans life.....lord knows they are very handy around the house ;):rofl:

You don't need nothing from nobody, pardon the grammar, you Have. 14 is Big Having which includes all kinds of things...everything a soul can hold, all manner of riches to share with and receive from. So if anything its advice to improve your life by being really aware of how rich you are and sharing that...and being open to receive what is offered you also

what a great answer. I think its very general...and quite a spiritual answer. Celebrate all you have in all areas of your life


I think with this particular answer it would be quite hard to take into account your previous posts...because its quite a definate, general sort of answer. Knowing something of you cannot help but influence what I write of course...like as I write about how wealthy you are I'm aware you have had money problems so wealth can be a hard word to use....and I know you had/have interest in a man...but still you have this interest whilst already being full and complete yourself.


I don't think theres a problem with taking peoples previous posts into account...they are a whole person..we do see them in context....but with PGs thread I was pretty lost about all the man advice. I ended up thinking it sounded like people thought she should just stick her hand out of the front door and pull in the nearest passing stranger...but maybe we said enough about that...mileage variability taken into account

The BOLDED part of the quotation is what I took from this as well as the "pure Yi" answer requiring no other background at all. And, as you added Trojan, I don't have any actual wealth! So it's hard to see this casting of hexagram 14 in any way except as PURE Yi language. No, no man under discussion here. That would be ok I suppose if it were somebody who didn't arrive with a suitcase full of "hassles." Right now I've got the weird sensation that, despite whatever impediments there may be, something amazing is underway, something related to thinking outside the box, looking in an entirely new way.

There i think the Yi is truly the master. I keep turning and turnig the puzzle, but only ever see it from one point of view, thinking it is just spinning or upside-down in another position. I think something radically new, an entirely different perspective, is called for. That's what I was contemplating when I cast for this question. It may be useful to look at the past -- but I think only in contrast to what should be happening now.

Hexagram 14 seems to say it's here in the room with me if I would just see it. Like those puzzles kids do -- finding the ten hidden objects in the picture. I'm looking for Hexagram 14 now -- it's hidden here somewhere in plain sight. :hug:
 

Trojina

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I think its been said gratitude is a big part of 14. Gratitude seems to double wealth immediately....even if you are having a bad day you can still enjoy the coffee in your hand....and at that moment you have all you need (if you like coffee) I think its a trick old people master better than young ones . We only ever have the moment and if we have all we need in that moment we are rich....
 

arabella

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I think its been said gratitude is a big part of 14. Gratitude seems to double wealth immediately....even if you are having a bad day you can still enjoy the coffee in your hand....and at that moment you have all you need (if you like coffee) I think its a trick old people master better than young ones . We only ever have the moment and if we have all we need in that moment we are rich....

This is the perfect reflection too of the Hex 14 emphasis you picked out: You already HAVE great possessions; you just need see it and use it.
 

bradford

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"Cultivating gratitude" came immediately to mind. Then I saw Trojan's post.
Appreciation is another good term. I once made an exercise of looking at all the major Economics words and tried to find meanings for them that didn't cost anything.
It was a value-able exercise with some interest-ing and reward-ing insights.
Look at all you possess, if you want it.
 

Lavalamp

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"What can I do to improve my life?"

14 Unchanging - "Possession In Great Measure"

You are on the correct path. Be careful to manage your resources well, and do not become arrogant over the many things you have. Others admire and respect you and you must be an example and use your power and possessions to further the common good.
Derived from commentaries - Wilhelm/Legge/iChing+

By taking your question and what the Yi advises, I would answer your question by implication, "You will your improve your own life by using your power and influence to further the interests of others, by promoting "the common good" (only good and not evil.)" Are you in publishing, government, do you have an oversight function socially?
 

arabella

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"Cultivating gratitude" came immediately to mind. Then I saw Trojan's post.
Appreciation is another good term. I once made an exercise of looking at all the major Economics words and tried to find meanings for them that didn't cost anything.
It was a value-able exercise with some interest-ing and reward-ing insights.
Look at all you possess, if you want it.

What's interest-ing is that last Summer I lost my job. Nothing reward-ing has turned up since, despite so much effort. Since then what has increased is my involvement in my religious faith -- starting a service project for youth ages 11 to 15 in our town, and sponsoring an all-faiths devotional evening at my home once a week for adults. Last week I held an open house for anyone who wanted to stop by to hear what our faith is doing in communities. I've always wanted to incorporate this into my life and now time is no object as I have no work. Despite a lack of funds, I've accrued significant wealth in other ways.:hug:
 

arabella

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"What can I do to improve my life?"

14 Unchanging - "Possession In Great Measure"

You are on the correct path. Be careful to manage your resources well, and do not become arrogant over the many things you have. Others admire and respect you and you must be an example and use your power and possessions to further the common good.
Derived from commentaries - Wilhelm/Legge/iChing+

By taking your question and what the Yi advises, I would answer your question by implication, "You will your improve your own life by using your power and influence to further the interests of others, by promoting "the common good" (only good and not evil.)" Are you in publishing, government, do you have an oversight function socially?


See what I just wrote to Bradford in response to the question you've posed. I'm trying now to LIQUIDATE what I own to continue spending my time on the service project that is underway. As I'm more involved in this activity and see the VALUE in it for the future I've lost INTEREST in a lot of the rest of what's supposedly VALUE-ABLE to humanity. The real WEALTH is in our connection with each other and what we have to show children about community-building that will survive the coming upheavals -- economic and every other type. I've learned that where children today are seen as self-centred and selfish, they have only to be shown where their effort is critical in the community and they are contributors and find their own power. They are quite amazing. Our little group is part of an international community service project that is proving this true in every part of the globe. :hug:
 

Lavalamp

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I would be the last one to say material wealth is the one true wealth arabella, and the Yi says you are on the right path. And you are using your resources and personal influence to promote goodness, as he Yi advised. You ARE making your life better. Good job.

It does caution about pridefulness, but says that is not a problem right now. Yogananda also had a bit to say about pridefulness as a spiritual disease common among people in spiritual communities.

Anyway, thanks for doing what you are doing. ;)
 

Trojina

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See what I just wrote to Bradford in response to the question you've posed. I'm trying now to LIQUIDATE what I own to continue spending my time on the service project that is underway. As I'm more involved in this activity and see the VALUE in it for the future I've lost INTEREST in a lot of the rest of what's supposedly VALUE-ABLE to humanity. The real WEALTH is in our connection with each other and what we have to show children about community-building that will survive the coming upheavals -- economic and every other type. I've learned that where children today are seen as self-centred and selfish, they have only to be shown where their effort is critical in the community and they are contributors and find their own power. They are quite amazing. Our little group is part of an international community service project that is proving this true in every part of the globe. :hug:

This reminds meof the 41.6 you cast recently
 

ginnie

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Do you think that hexagram 14 makes reference to any particular area of life?

Sorry -- I posted this after quite a few other posts had intervened ...

Maybe you have accumulated a body of knowledge of how to get by in these uncertain times and could help others.

One way you could help others is by reassuring those in conditions of low finances that our spirits are more important than our bank balances, much though most of us want to have a sweet cushion to fall back on. But you seem to sleep at night and triumph over every financial adversity in a way that makes other people respect you a lot, Arabella.

Hilary once posted that she thought hex 14 was sometimes referring to the health of the physical body. I tend to think of it as being a body of knowledge; for example, how to use the Bach Flower Remedies to re-balance the emotions. Or even how to use knowledgeable people who are really experts or masters at what they do, like going to a chiropractor who really knows how to do adjustments that hold. So, I tend to think of the healing arts when I think of hexagram 14, not "wealth management."

Using Bradford's idea of substituting no-cost alternatives for money terminology, the "basis" underneath the great possession of hex 14 is indeed gratitude and appreciation, and I'd like to add, looking on things with a certain equanimity that comes I guess from faith that each time a particular phase of the story ends, it will end well and naturally transform into a bright beginning.

So, yes, I am going more by my general understanding of hex 14 -- although knowing your life story makes this a deeper discussion.
 
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precision grace

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I've enquired of the Yi -- What can I do to improve my life?

The casting: Hexgram 14 unchanging, which would indicate to me that there is enormous potential I'm not seeing; something signfiicant I'm not using or tuned into.

I propose that we make this open to anything anybody would like to offer from either of two prevalent points of view on Shared Readings:

1. Simply based on knowledge of the Yi Ching as it is written OR
2. Based on all of our acquaintance, prior postings I've made, and anything you know about the details of my situation.

When answering, would you please say which approach you are using -- the first or the second? I think the difference of interpretation might be instructive toward the future, a delineation of what we take entirely from the Yi and what we infer because we know somebody and we are doing our best to be helpful.

This is something of a follow-on from a thread just posted by Precision Grace where this happened more or less spontaneously and got tangled a bit. I'm hoping we can clarify where readings separate between pure Yi and more personal. :hug: Arabella

Using option 1 I would say that Hexagram 14 unchanging answers the question "What can I do to improve my life?" with "Use all your talents for the greater good and without letting your ego rule your thinking." i think, generally speaking this hexagram talks about someone who is very talented, very able, has a lot , is a lot, can accomplish a lot, but also runs a risk of being very big headed and thus led astray by their ego.

Having said that, you haven't struck me as a someone with ego problems, but who can tell over the internet ;)
:hug:
 

arabella

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Sorry -- I posted this after quite a few other posts had intervened ...

Maybe you have accumulated a body of knowledge of how to get by in these uncertain times and could help others.

One way you could help others is by reassuring those in conditions of low finances that our spirits are more important than our bank balances, much though most of us want to have a sweet cushion to fall back on. But you seem to sleep at night and triumph over every financial adversity in a way that makes other people respect you a lot, Arabella.

Hilary once posted that she thought hex 14 was sometimes referring to the health of the physical body. I tend to think of it as being a body of knowledge; for example, how to use the Bach Flower Remedies to re-balance the emotions. Or even how to use knowledgeable people who are really experts or masters at what they do, like going to a chiropractor who really knows how to do adjustments that hold. So, I tend to think of the healing arts when I think of hexagram 14, not "wealth management."

Using Bradford's idea of substituting no-cost alternatives for money terminology, the "basis" underneath the great possession of hex 14 is indeed gratitude and appreciation, and I'd like to add, looking on things with a certain equanimity that comes I guess from faith that each time a particular phase of the story ends, it will end well and naturally transform into a bright beginning.

So, yes, I am going more by my general understanding of hex 14 -- although knowing your life story makes this a deeper discussion.

Interest-ing that you bring up the physical self here Ginnie. I'm having to work hard on that one because letting any stress take hold does detract from the immune system and i've begun kundalini yoga to try to stay ahead of it. Especially when my activities are all self-driven since I have no work, I have to push hard to discipline myself and not sit about the place. Maybe it is a worthwhile thought to do some sort of "survival" blog for people in my position. Great idea in fact!

I do have the advantage of knowing that God has never let me down. Never. I've had the opportunity to learn a huge amount and certainly that's what life is for. And it seems, even in rather dire circumstances, the learning and opportunities continue. I have nothing to complain about, although I've vastly changed my expectations of what should happen next.

A few of the interpretations in this thread speak of perhaps being "egotistical" in relation to religion if you are attempting to live an ideal of faith -- at least that's how i read it. Thinking you have the answers is the usual flaw in making this choice. Kind of -- if it looks like a zealot and sounds like a zealot........... But religion, in my view, isn't really that simplistic. Answers aren't mine to impart or keep to myself -- answers are individual in that, even if i did have the answer, if it doesn't look like the solution to somebody else, then it won't matter to them. And that's not my call anyway. My faith forbids proselytizing. In the faith that i practice, the point is that what you DO should be self-evident. What you SAY you do, or might do, doesn't really matter at all. Just words.

And that is the humbling experience of this. To try to do what you believe each day; without excuses. To live an accountable life you can examine and improve upon each night. That is a life's work, right there. It's neverending and perpetually imperfect. And if you follow the process of examing your life honestly, you will find that ego is the first thing to dismiss -- and the last. Wherever ego arises it will obscure the view to something far more important -- and it pops up persistently just when you think you locked it out. The ego is a booming sound where you need silence; a baby where you need an adult. In a few places, ego can be a bit adorable. But for the most part ego in the scenario of "putting my money where my mouth is," has profound limitations -- flaws which are resoundingly obvious and therefore embarrassing. Not embarrassing in front of the neighbours, or embarrassing as a community example of anything -- but embarrassing when I look at me in the mirror, which is the worst of all.

As Trojan said, what is happening now is the essence of hexagram 41.6 that came up for me not all that long ago. :hug:
 

ginnie

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Especially when my activities are all self-driven since I have no work, I have to push hard to discipline myself and not sit about the place. Maybe it is a worthwhile thought to do some sort of "survival" blog for people in my position. Great idea in fact!

There can be a lot of sadness creeping about the place when one has no work. The ego may interpret this as having failed. People who retire go through the same thing. When time opens up like that, it becomes more likely that no tasks will get done, even though there are always things to do.

And if you follow the process of examining your life honestly, you will find that ego is the first thing to dismiss -- and the last.

Yes, that pesky ego always comes in loud and clear.

It seems to me you have begun something like the life of a minister to your flock. Even the change in your avatar shows a seriousness of purpose that was not there before. Though you have your work cut out for you, your responsibilities are rather amorphous. Your activities are not governed by anyone other than yourself. This is the sovereign position in which you find yourself with respect to your inquiry.

Maybe the answer is that you improve your life when you get busy improving the lives of others -- and keep yourself healthy enough to keep doing that.

Have you thought of founding a nonprofit organization, just to get the benefits of the structure of that? Then you wouldn't need to do everything alone. But you might have a Board of Directors breathing down your neck!

I don't know what is best, but it would be nice if you could receive a formal grant to do the valuable work you are doing as a volunteer.
 

arabella

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:hug:
There can be a lot of sadness creeping about the place when one has no work. The ego may interpret this as having failed. People who retire go through the same thing. When time opens up like that, it becomes more likely that no tasks will get done, even though there are always things to do.



Yes, that pesky ego always comes in loud and clear.

It seems to me you have begun something like the life of a minister to your flock. Even the change in your avatar shows a seriousness of purpose that was not there before. Though you have your work cut out for you, your responsibilities are rather amorphous. Your activities are not governed by anyone other than yourself. This is the sovereign position in which you find yourself with respect to your inquiry.

Maybe the answer is that you improve your life when you get busy improving the lives of others -- and keep yourself healthy enough to keep doing that.

Have you thought of founding a nonprofit organization, just to get the benefits of the structure of that? Then you wouldn't need to do everything alone. But you might have a Board of Directors breathing down your neck!

I don't know what is best, but it would be nice if you could receive a formal grant to do the valuable work you are doing as a volunteer.

The funny thing is, so long as I'm doing what I'm doing, even as a volunteer, I have the distinct feeling there won't be a need to worry. The deeper I go into this process the more that resources become apparent and the need I thought I had for money rather recedes into the background. I can't live on air of course, but there are many possibilities arising for support that I've never noticed, or been offered, before. Thanks Ginnie -- and all -- for your encouragement.

One thing to say -- I believe we've done this casting more or less entirely on a Premise 1 basis [of the two that I suggested we try] and it has brought to mind the features of life I most needed to notice. Nobody has speculated on what it means in the context of my life and prior readings -- but the interpretation is still quite detailed and limited more by the casting having been an unchanging one rather than by lack of personal discussion. I suppose both ways of interpreting a reading are valid, but as I think of it, we can do very well without knowing the details of someone else's situation -- we still come out with a powerful product that is very meaningful to the querent.

Yes, Ginnie, my avatar change was a very purposeful one. I've had to grow up a lot this year. Not entirely by choice mind you! But it's fine and comes partly by continuing life experience that determined growing up was essential and partly through counseling which has required me to look intently at my entire past, from childhood onward, and how that has affected all of my adult life and decisions. It is a very hard-earned change of avatar and very meaningful to me.

Also, I think the meaning of Hexagram 14 as a means of improvement is becoming more and more obvious as all of you have analysed the possibilities -- and as I consider where I was six months ago -- and where I am now. The next six months should be even more interest-ing! :hug::hug:
 
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ginnie

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-- we still come out with a powerful product that is very meaningful to the querent.

I've thought this way for a very long time here at OnlineClarity in working with unknown querants on both Shared Readings and in the Reading Circle. Often people do not want exposure and give very few personal details. And yet the hexagrams speak most plainly of what is going on in general, certainly enough for me to answer in resonance with the querant.

I know I have at times overdone my personal use of the I Ching (as opposed to simply sitting in meditation on the question), but I think this is all working out okay at the present time, as I intend to put what I have learned to use for the benefit of others. I find I don't need the querant to say a whole lot about themselves.
 

Trojina

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:hug:


One thing to say -- I believe we've done this casting more or less entirely on a Premise 1 basis [of the two that I suggested we try] and it has brought to mind the features of life I most needed to notice. Nobody has speculated on what it means in the context of my life and prior readings -- but the interpretation is still quite detailed and limited more by the casting having been an unchanging one rather than by lack of personal discussion. I suppose both ways of interpreting a reading are valid, but as I think of it, we can do very well without knowing the details of someone else's situation -- we still come out with a powerful product that is very meaningful to the querent.

:hug::hug:

But I don't agree that we must not take the persons prior threads and castings into account. That would sometimes be absurd especially in relationship questions where someone has posted 17 threads on the same person...we aren't machines or robots that can treat it like a totally new query each time so I don't think what you describe is in any way decisively instructive here as a way to go. Not for me anyway, not always...sometimes but not always. Its an individual choice. I think its fine when a person refers to other threads.....mostly. We aren't machines...we get a whole picture of a situation., we respond as people not 'i ching interpreters' and of course none of us are here to give readings IMO


okay you didn't say 'we must not'...anything. I'm just meaning it is impossible not to get to know someones situation after a while.
 
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ginnie

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The I Ching Doesn't Interpret Itself

Well, people tell stories as our way of describing what is happening, but the I Ching isn't storytelling. I cannot allow myself to get into a whole discussion of this as I am not equipped to say what I know on a scholarly level.

As storytellers, most people tend to repeat themselves. Usually one word can say just as much -- or the absence of a whole lot of verbiage also speaks volumes.

People can call me an I Ching interpreter or anything they want to call me, since I can't prevent them anyway from saying whatever they want to say.

I thought I was here to interpret the I Ching ... Now Trojan you have me wondering why I am here, if not to interpret the I Ching. You see, there are people who come here saying they are desperate or they just don't know, can we help them? They have thrown the coins and have written what they received. But the I Ching does not interpret itself and it's fully of scary language from a different time and place. Someone has to say what the reading means.

Isn't that why I come here: Out of my experience, to help others with the meanings of their readings?

I know I have overused the I Ching myself and so have gotten probably every single moving line and every hexagram, and so when I see the line the querant says she got, I tell you it speaks to me and the person doesn't have to say very much, most of the time.

I would never imply that one approach is better than another. I don't see that there is a right approach and a wrong approach.

The miracle is that we want to do this at all, because working with the I Ching is very difficult and it takes many years to get better at it. We have rather dedicated ourselves to getting better at it, haven't we?

By the way, the I Ching told me that I analyze things too much. Too much 57, the wind always gently seeking to penetrate deeper and deeper, until it ends up under the couch, exhausted. That's me. I'm working on setting limits, even on activities I love to do. In line with which, I may not be back tomorrow ...

:)
 

Trojina

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as an example...Hopex asked recently if her son is in danger from some threats received.....here http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?p=152141&posted=1#post152141

i asked her how old her son is.... even though the readings said to me there was no danger somehow (and I could be wrong !) if she had said he was 4 years old I would have felt very differently about responding to her whatever Yi said because the idea of threats to a child are a different thing altogether...not that any threat is good ! But why did I need to ask her ? I don't know. I immediately felt more protective towards a child I guess...it seemed a crucial piece of information. She says somewhere her son runs a business so hes not a child....

Sometimes don't we need information ...because we wouldn't want to give totally irresponsible responses ?
 
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Trojina

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People can call me an I Ching interpreter or anything they want to call me, since I can't prevent them anyway from saying whatever they want to say.

I thought I was here to interpret the I Ching ... Now Trojan you have me wondering why I am here, if not to interpret the I Ching. You see, there are people who come here saying they are desperate or they just don't know, can we help them? They have thrown the coins and have written what they received. But the I Ching does not interpret itself and it's fully of scary language from a different time and place. Someone has to say what the reading means.

Isn't that why I come here: Out of my experience, to help others with the meanings of their readings?

:)


Yes we help with interpreting.....but thats not 'giving a reading' IMO. I'd never claim to be giving anyone a reading here...only my thoughts about their cast

I do not think I would 'do a reading' unless I could talk to the person, otherwise it is irresponsible to advise people and claim it is 'a reading' IMO since we don't know what they are going through or the details of their situation.

Perhaps I ought to make it more explicit in my signature or something that it is only my thoughts and not a reading. A reading is a deep personal thing...one would generally get paid for...it carries responsibility IMO. Thoughts...well thoughts are free and plentiful...mine are anyway, almost as plentiful as my opinions of which I am told by a reliable source that I have 'one on everything whether you know anything about it or not ! ' :rofl:


edited to add do we ever really know what another persons answer means ? I don't think so. In a proper personal reading we stand a better chance...but even then I'm not so sure
 
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hopex

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I can see how 14 would be saying - you already have what you need.

I have a belief that what i need is available to me - i am not seeing
it - thats why i ask for another perspective or what am i blind to that
it would benefit me to see - with 14 and you are skint!!!! that comes
from experience

my son is big but he is also innocent and not involved in this at all -
he is an achilles heel anyone can threaten what you love most whether
its 4/24 /44 or 84
 

Trojina

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I can see how 14 would be saying - you already have what you need.

I have a belief that what i need is available to me - i am not seeing
it - thats why i ask for another perspective or what am i blind to that
it would benefit me to see - with 14 and you are skint!!!! that comes
from experience

my son is big but he is also innocent and not involved in this at all -
he is an achilles heel anyone can threaten what you love most whether
its 4/24 /44 or 84

yes, sure, you're his mum, but to me as an outsider any threat to a child is a whole different arena than a threat to an adult....not that a childs life is any more valuable than an adults...its just my gut instinct I guess. At least your son has means to defend himself in some way...hes a grown man, he can make a call. I'm not saying its okay...I was just giving an example of how we take information into account in responding to people...rightly or wrongly we do that as people with all our fears and prejudices not I Ching interpreters

I think when I say we are not doing readings here I am defending my right to respond as me..... I'm not a reader. I'm still me. I have no obligation not to be me or not to answer as me


now I'm rambling.

Ginnie is so right about setting limits on forum activity !
 

arabella

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In view of a previous thread in which there was some discussion about how much interpretation was reading the Yi, the meanings of the hexagram and lines, and how much was speculation because of previous information about the person submitting the reading, I thought it might be interesting if we could separate out Yi and history -- knowledge of the person and their circumstances versus strict meanings of the lines and hexagram. I didn't know what that "exercise" would produce or demonstrate, but I thought it might be interesting to see. And, of course, it's nearly impossible to separate when we know about each other over a couple years on here, but we gave it a shot I think. There's a lot of information and guidance we can provide, just because of what the Yi is saying -- and not that much speculation from past posts -- if we decide to try tHE "strictly from Yi" approach. But, certainly there is no requirement to do either one. We all do some of each with good results.

The only other comment I would make on this is that, sometimes, the Shared Readings gets into a lot of counseling that goes well beyond the casting -- and I don't know if that's good or bad but just trying to give the benefit of life experience. As Ginnie says, any number of people come to SR for help, for answers to their life dilemmas. Me as much as anyone. And in those cases we do exercise an awful lot of discretion with what we talk about. And the Yi and its meaning can get short shrift on those occasions i believe. Probably out of concern for people because nobody who comments on the SR wants to see others suffer or make mistakes. And, when more subject to that approach, sometimes the interpretation is rather broad and the Yi interpretation is minimal -- or even disregarded -- simply because the personal concern takes over. There we may sacrifice practice on the hexagrams and lines. And we may sacrifice taking a literal meaning/answer from the oracle as well, because we think we know better. But the human condition is certainly the focus in those situations rather than the Yi itself.

Does it matter? I don't know. It's just an observation. I suppose it depends what you believe the Shared Readings is meant to do and how that might alter from reading to reading. In this case, the subjective reading of Hexagram 14 unchanging was very useful without knowledge of the background circumstnaces.
 
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hopex

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I dont know if i follow what people are up to so closely - I think I am
learning more from the Yi as a comment on the matter posted.

By giving an interpretation something might ring true - I am learning
to love LiSe and it is my favourite thing to check in there currently

my awareness of the Yi is growing by looking at more angles - i hope
practise on other people's threads is making me more informed.
 

ginnie

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I'd never claim to be giving anyone a reading here...

Me neither.

one would generally get paid for...it carries responsibility IMO.

Yes and yes. Payment and more responsibility.

do we ever really know what another person's answer means ? I don't think so....

I DO think so. If the querant says I hit the nail on its head, then I figure I might have said something meaningful to that querant. ;):hugs: I happen to think that whatever I said was inspired by Yi, by the querant's reading, the lines themselves.

I'm not saying I always understand Yi's message for the querant. 'Understanding Yi's meaning' is like a flower that is continuously opening and unfolding. So beautiful.
:)
 

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