Hexagram 18????

[cornucopia]

Hello everyone!

I've been reading all the threads for hexagram 18 and there is a diverse scope of opinion.
It might sound sinister but a jar full of poisonous worms or insects in my country means the practice of black magic. I don't believe in such things as I am a Christian woman but you never know what someone can do to you and these practices are mentioned in the old testament
Can someone with indepth knowledge of this hexagram's meaning please tell me. Does this hexagram have evil and black magic connotations?
What does 3 days before and 3 days after really mean? Most sources seem confused about this analogy.
In the bible the jews practiced religious rituals to clear up longstanding iniquities and clear things up with god. They did it 3 days before the new moon and 3 days after the new moon. I'll have to find the passage and copy it for everyone.
Thank you.

 

[diamanda]

Well it seems that in many translations/commentaries, and the imagery in many countries around the world, and through the centuries, it can mean just that, bad/black magic. I've also seen it, in practice, to mean addiction. Decay. And so on. What was your question when you received this?

 

[cornucopia]

Hello Diamanda,

I'm so glad you saw my post and replied. I've read your threads and value your input.

This hexagram totally freaks me out and I always get it unchanged which freaks me out even more. I try to ignore the evil/curse connotations as I'm an educated right brain thinker. I've tried to look at it objectively but no more.

In summary, my concern is a lifelong concern about my marital status. I'm a successful beautiful educated woman - the whole package. I've never had problems meeting and dating men but nothing ever stuck something always went wrong without me doing anything. I would feel the energy would not be right when I would be in a relationship as if an invisible force was interfering in my destiny. I've had enough of it and I want to get to the bottom of it. I and my sister are having the same problems we've never married and we're in our 40's while we both see other women with no effort get the best men and marry numerous times with no effort! I wanted to know why I can't find a life partner to truly love me and I keep getting that cursed hexagram 18!!!!

This is fine because I trust the wisdom in the I Ching but if a curse is the case I’d like to know how to get to the bottom of it. Even though I have a scientific mind I'm starting to believe this because too much out of the ordinary strange events happen every time I meet someone for a serious relationship. I don't ignore it as coincidence anymore I mean 20 years of strange stuff is too much! Now I expect it and wait for the **** to happen. When I ask how to get rid of the negative evil/curse if I have it that spoils my relationships and doesn't allow me to get married I get hexagram 59! Which I take as meaning go to church immediately and listen to liturgies!!!

I want a life partner. I want true love. I want quality. I have a lot to offer and I meet garbage and users. I can’t ignore it anymore. I’ve put my career on hold for this. I don’t want to spend the rest of my life alone! If I was the hunchback of Notre Dame I would expect it but I’m not.

Today I asked will I spend the rest of life without a husband?
Hexagram 7 lines 2, 4 and 6 changed into hexagram 35

Please Diamanda can you help put my mind at ease? Maybe direct me in the right direction to get to the bottom of this. I am the master of my destiny. I want to make things happen. I’ll work at it. I want to know what is wrong if it’s not me and I’m not to blame. I want to get to the bottom of this!

 

[meng]

Hi cornucopia,

If you approach the IC from a Biblical perspective, it won't feel right, it's a conflict of perceptions. Each must be looked at within its own symbols, metaphors and context. Then you can recognize similar metaphors in both, including beliefs in good and evil, which really makes a difference in how one interprets the very same metaphors. An individual or tribe can make the IC or a Bible into cursing tool, or revere it as a holy book... or a way to tap into what none of us really claim to understand, but which proves itself to those for whom it is intended.

There are fairly recent discussions on a thread about a A Christian Book of Changes. You may find it interesting.

 

[meng]

Hexagram 18 is an image of stale air, trapped against the mountain. The idea is not only that something is spoiling, but it goes into how it was spoiled and how to breathe fresh air into it, through understanding. Very often by understanding yourself better. But is it a curse, evil, black magic etc? No, it is not. The idea is to break up the stagnation, not to dwell on it.

 

[bradford]

What meng said.
3 days before and after means to put things back into a larger context.

 

[long yi]

Hexagram 18

For family relationships, hexagram 18 refers to the relationship of a son with the parents (see the specific lines). The son has to clean up the mess from the parents because things are not set propely.

From the sexual perspective, an older female (perhaps of similar age) seduces the young man (trigram set up). The male consider it improper and eventually moves away to avoid bad image or scandal.

The take home lesson here is that parents do not teach their kids in the growth up years.

If a person is single and a mature adult, this hexagram means you must put your own house or life in order before seeking any new opportunity. When things are in a mess, learn to walk clean and start all over. Past is past.

From the religious perspective, any improper relationship between a male and female within a family tree is not encouraged or recommended. Hexagram 18 may have such a composition meaning within.

If the querent got line 5 and 6, in particular a male, he has already walked clean and did nothing improper. However, this does not comment on the female. If the querent is a female, you may have certain emotional problem that she must resolve herself. She falls for someone that she cannot marry to because it may be improper in most countries.

Hexagram 18 also means fermentation process (making beer and soy sauce etc.). Then the querent has to look at the technical process in detail to identify the good and bad of the technical process of manufacturing.

The world has changed. Certain moral and ethnic issues are also evolving. Sometimes right or wrong is not clearly defined. Rather, it is the subjective judgement of a culture or religion.

For education learning, connect this issue to hexagram 60 (restrictions). Every thing has a limit. Regardless of whether it is a process of events in family or technical process of manufacturing. There is the upper limit and the lower limit. One must find the middle path out of the situation in hexagram 18 to lead a happy life.

 

[anemos]

I would feel the energy would not be right when I would be in a relationship as if an invisible force was interfering in my destiny. !

A post-it note i have stick to h18 .

" when an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate" ~ C. Jung

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[rodaki]

hey cornucopia,

not sure how much you're aware of the symbolisms used for trigrams but, according to one way of reading them, the lower trigram is taken as what happens within (the inner reality of the querent/situation) and the upper one as what happens outside (the outer form as is manifested) . . Lately I"ve taken to reading hexagrams with mountain on top as describing something (self-)contained. Wind, on the other hand, may take a number of different meanings, some of the 'darker' ones including suspicions, doubts, indecision and so on so forth . .

 

[cornucopia]

Hexagram 18 is an image of stale air, trapped against the mountain. The idea is not only that something is spoiling, but it goes into how it was spoiled and how to breathe fresh air into it, through understanding. Very often by understanding yourself better. But is it a curse, evil, black magic etc? No, it is not. The idea is to break up the stagnation, not to dwell on it.

Thanks Meng this is how I see hexagram 18 unless it has to do with repairs I am still investigating the family curse part as well.

 

[cornucopia]

Thanks Long yi I am a single woman. Never had a relationship with a younger man. Unless hexagram 18 means I will and there will be a big scandal

You've cleared up many things for me alot of what you describe that hexagram 18 represents resonates with my situation. Especially the fermentation process and limitations.

 

[cornucopia]

hey cornucopia,

not sure how much you're aware of the symbolisms used for trigrams but, according to one way of reading them, the lower trigram is taken as what happens within (the inner reality of the querent/situation) and the upper one as what happens outside (the outer form as is manifested) . . Lately I"ve taken to reading hexagrams with mountain on top as describing something (self-)contained. Wind, on the other hand, may take a number of different meanings, some of the 'darker' ones including suspicions, doubts, indecision and so on so forth . .

Thanks Rodaki this really really helps and needs pondering!

 

[meng]

Thanks Meng this is how I see hexagram 18 unless it has to do with repairs I am still investigating the family curse part as well.

I'm curious what you'll find. I hope you'll share.

 

[cornucopia]

I'm curious what you'll find. I hope you'll share.

Hi Meng and everyone who took the time to reply thanks. It is a family curse on my fathers's side.

I can understand the different connotations of each hexagram and how people try to put a scientific and objective spin to them. The other side of the coin people should realize that 5000 years ago when these hexagrams were created for divination purposes there were alot of pagan rituals which still go on today. For those who have difficulty processing the idea of the existence of black magic and spells and curses, like myself, who turns my back to the dark. Think of this: in Genesis God planted the tree of good and evil and we have the powers to do good and evil. I did alot of old testament reading after getting hexagram 18 and it makes alot of sense especially when I translate it into Greek. Actually many of the hexagrams make alot of sense when someone reads the old testament which was also created about the same time as the I Ching. Something to ponder I should think.

 

[meng]

I wonder, does your reference include "I am a jealous God. I punish the sons, grandsons, and great-grandsons for the sin of the fathers who reject me," from Deuteronomy 5:9?

If so, or if it's relevant to your search, I've found nothing in the Yijing that is comparable, other than the metaphor of being "spoiled by the father", tough love gone too far perhaps. I like Bradford's reference to that as being "father's fixations". Those fixations include a father's own inadequacies, and the son or daughter not meeting the father's approval, to make up for it. Even if he's died many years ago, those ghosts (ala Karcher) can haunt some all the rest of their life, unless equally strong action is taken to avert that.

 

[anemos]

When I ask how to get rid of the negative evil/curse if I have it that spoils my relationships and doesn't allow me to get married I get hexagram 59! Which I take as meaning go to church immediately and listen to liturgies!!!

This is a nice reading which in brief suggest to either relax as not be so rigid to thoughts of future failure and also build your temple which is in accord with the following reading

Today I asked will I spend the rest of life without a husband?
Hexagram 7 lines 2, 4 and 6 changed into hexagram 35

 

[cornucopia]

A post-it note i have stick to h18 .

Hi Anemos where is the post it note??? Don't know where to look.

 

[cornucopia]

I wonder, does your reference include "I am a jealous God. I punish the sons, grandsons, and great-grandsons for the sin of the fathers who reject me," from Deuteronomy 5:9?

Yes this is the one I mean. My old man has turned his back to God and fears death. He is totally disconnected.

If so, or if it's relevant to your search, I've found nothing in the Yijing that is comparable, other than the metaphor of being "spoiled by the father", tough love gone too far perhaps. I like Bradford's reference to that as being "father's fixations". Those fixations include a father's own inadequacies, and the son or daughter not meeting the father's approval, to make up for it. Even if he's died many years ago, those ghosts (ala Karcher) can haunt some all the rest of their life, unless equally strong action is taken to avert that.

Hi Meng your replies are prophetic and have me pondering for days. I was on the same track. My old man is my best friend. I'm wondering if hexagram 18 means I'm looking for a father figure? Hmmm. I'm wondering if it means I have to take care of my father who is suffering from Altzheimer's and won't have time for love matters. Maybe it's as simple as that and I'm reading too much into it. I have my old man freaking out with the curse thing LOL

Anyways hexagram 18 is Gu which in Chinese means poison.The passage below I believe says it all. I firmly believe it shows a method of trying to manipulate people through black magic or it can allude to a toxic sexual relationship.


Gu (simplified Chinese: 蛊; traditional Chinese: 蠱; pinyin: gǔ; Wade–Giles: ku) or jincan (simplified Chinese: 金蚕; traditional Chinese: 金蠶; pinyin: jīncán; Wade–Giles: chin-ts'an; lit. "gold silkworm") was a venom-based poison associated with cultures of south China, particularly Nanyue. The traditional preparation of gu poison involved sealing several venomous creatures (e.g., centipede, snake, scorpion) into a closed utensil, where they devoured one another and allegedly concentrated their toxins into a single survivor. Gu was used in black magic practices such as manipulating sexual partners, creating malignant diseases, and causing death.

 

[cornucopia]

Gu techniques

According to ancient gu traditions, explain Joseph Needham and Wang Ling (1956:136), "the poison was prepared by placing many toxic insects in a closed vessel and allowing them to remain there until one had eaten all the rest – the toxin was then extracted from the survivor." They note, "It is strange to think that this same method has been successfully employed in our own times for the isolation of strains of soil bacteria capable of attacking the tuberculosis bacillus".

Feng and Shryock (1935:1) describe contemporary practices of gu.


At present, ku is used primarily as a means of acquiring wealth; secondarily as a means of revenge. The method is to place poisonous snakes and insects together in a vessel until there is but one survivor, which is called the ku. The poison secured from this ku is administered to the victim, who becomes sick and dies. The ideas associated with ku vary, but the ku is generally regarded as a spirit, which secures the wealth of the victim for the sorcerer.

Eberhard (1968:152) summarizes gu practices.


The essence of ku, then, was the magic charm that could be prepared out of the surviving animal in the pot. It could be used as a love charm with the object of forcing the loved male to come back to the woman.

 

[cornucopia]

Below is why Gu also has the meaning of Remedy:

Many gu-poison antidotes are homeopathic, in Western terms. The 8th-century pharmacologist Chen Cangqi (tr. Groot 1910 5:866) explains using venomous creatures both to produce and cure gu-poison.


In general reptiles and insects, which are used to make ku, are cures for ku; therefore, if we know what ku is at work, we may remedy its effects. Against ku of snakes that of centipedes should be used, against ku of centipedes that of frogs, against ku of frogs that of snakes, and so on. Those varieties of ku, having the power of subduing each other, may also have a curative effect .

And finally Gu means Evil Eye;

From descriptions of gu poisoning such involving "swollen abdomen, emaciation, and the presence of worms in the body orifices of the dead or living", Unschuld (1985:48) reasons, "Such symptoms allow a great number of possible explanations and interpretations". He suggests attitudes toward gu were based upon fear of others, envy, and greed. "But the concept of ku is unknown outside of China. Instead, one finds what may be its conceptual equivalent, the "evil eye", present in all "envy societies"."

 

[Trojina]

FWIW I can see black magic as associated with hex 18 in terms of if it is the case that all under heaven is contained within YI somewhere, then if I were asked to ascribe black magic a hexagram 18 would come to mind.

However reading your earlier post this phrase leapt out at me

I'm a successful beautiful educated woman - the whole package. I've never had problems meeting and dating men but nothing ever stuck something always went wrong without me doing anything. I would feel the energy would not be right when I would be in a relationship as if an invisible force was interfering in my destiny. I've had enough of it

That, underlined, jumped out at me because it's not generally how people refer to themselves, it sounds more like a description you'd give someone you didn't know ? The word 'package' in particular struck me...as people don't often describe themselves as packages and the word made me think of the shut off airless 'can of worms' in 18, the airless container of 18 where things can fester...So where am I heading with this ? Well I was wondering if rather than looking to black magic might it also be worth considering if you have made your own self perception, your view of yourself, a little detached, a little airless ? You are a human being not a package. Packages aren't people, they don't fall in love..That's just an observation you may want to look at. I mean people don't fall in love because someone is the right 'package' although it is the case the media kind of gives us the idea that that is the main criteria.


Anyway apart from that I'm intrigued as to why you would think someone was working black magic against you ? It's not the most obvious explanation for not marrying is it ? Is there, are there particular people who you think would work such magic against you....? Or do you think it's a family curse thing ? Haven't read the whole thread so may have missed something

 

[anemos]

A post-it note i have stick to h18 .

Hi Anemos where is the post it note??? Don't know where to look.

I meant that quote in the other post , cornucopia , that sometimes what appears as fate is a human's doing, what also Wilhelm's say. H18 has to do with parental influences and some of them are so subtle that are not easy to be recognized neither the way they control us . and even when we do its still needs effort to change them and become like the one in 18.6. They are powerful bonds

I really like your 59 reading , makes lots of sense if your 18 is about parental influences and the ways sometimes tie children

 

[meng]

Very interesting, cornucopia. Thank you for sharing that.

 

[meng]

"Manipulation is a feature of 46," a respected member once said. Never thought of that, but it makes total sense. But we associate 46 with a positive scheme of things. That's only looking at it positively, which we associate in an instant, most often by their given name, or one of them. Manipulation of the elements is a feature of magic, black or white; I prefer blue myself. Therefore, 46 means or alludes to magic.

Oooh, let me play with hex 1! as meaning black magic. Earth magic could be h2, and so on. H3 is chaos, which is of the devil, who plays a tempter, like Pan; a fool (4). H21 alludes to shamanism, fo sho.

Cornucopia, what I liked most in what you'd written was the mixture of toxic elements and life forces, sacrificed to make the potion, though they are not science based entirely, and I sit here typing this as evidence of that, having been stung by the "deadly" bark scorpion several times, and six at once one one occasion. It would be very easy for me to call that a curse, and maybe it was, but I don't think so. I think I invited, much as anemos spoke of, the bark scorpions to climb up the blanket, which I had kicked off in my sleep. To them, a giant hand grabbed them threateningly, they did what nature made them to do. There likely was no magic about it, though what it created in my mind/body was transforming me into a lobster-like man creature. That sounds like black magic, within the realm of black magic. I believe hell itself is created by those who occupy it.

r.e. 18, in my readings, I see it being for the purpose of a cure, not a curse. I neither see nor feel a negative connotation when I receive 18. Something is always rotten somewhere. Gotta keep things moving.

 

[meng]

A Godly man thanks God for providing the turkey. A simple man thanks the turkey. After all, it's his life that's being sacrificed so that we may live. If one doesn't understand that, how can they understand the crucifixion, much less the resurrection!

 

[cornucopia]

Hi Trojan, reading the whole thread will give you a better idea. The phrase the whole package is an analogy that everyone uses in the dating world to mean a great catch

 

[cornucopia]

Hello everyone just a follow up.

I went to a priest of the orthodox church which is my denomination. He is helping me with religious practices and psalms and prayers to uncross myself. The church believes in this stuff (just as Jesus was aware and knew how banish evil spirits/demons which fester inside someone and destroy them and their way of life).

First off I am grateful for the I Ching - Hex 18 warned me that the evil has accumulated over many years because I did not detect it and I let it fester and turn to poison. I have a lot of work ahead of me to 'remedy things' with the help of God.

Someone took away my wealth and my health and my luck. Someone did something to reverse my true destiny. I was suppose to have a different destiny than what I have. This is what people who practice strong black magic do for revenge.


Hexagram 18 Gu is generally regarded as a spirit, which secures the wealth of the victim for the sourcer.

The priest told me the symptoms. I had all the symptoms.

I needed proof and now I have it. The priest proved it to me. I saw the signs. The priest told me what to do to see who when and where and I saw. There is a special religious ritual with special holy words the priest says to banish angry evil spirits and then I have to do my own methods.

People who try to manipulate others with evil get hit ten times worse with the curses or spells they practice.

 

[Delpino]

Gu (poison) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org