hexagram 58.5

[txortx]

Hello everyone and happy 2009 to all of you.

I need some help about this line. My question was related with a girl I would like to have as my partner. I received this line.

The question was: how am I doing right now in all this situation? and I received this line. Does it means that having a relationship with her can be dangerous for me? I mean, it is like letting a dangerous person go in my life and I will have to be aware of this danger all the time if I want to be something with her?

Or has this line to do with me? I mean, I should not let the negative elements go into my mind, like hurry or ambition to speed up a good result for me?

The question was focused on my doings, so I suppose it has more to do in the way I want it to be, than in what would she mean for me as a girlfriend.

Thanks for your help.

Txortx

 

[Trojina]

well as noone else has jumped in I'll give you the benefit of my infinite wisdom
I think 58.5 warns of giving your trust to something or someone whois not so sincere towards you. Or perhaps misplaced faith in something already disintegrating.

For myself I've found it to show up times where I've been much in earnest to someone/something that regards me as quite disposable. 58.5 shows such earnestness/sincerity to be somewhat ill placed. In your case I wouldn't like to say how far misplaced your sincerity is towards her but perhaps it may be wise just to hold back a little and see what happens before giving her your heart ? The danger is I think, if it can be called danger, that you get hurt or feel used by placing your trust where it isn't really appreciated or valued. This is reflected i think in the relating hexagram of 54 where one is generally seen as means to an end by another

 

[ivonne]

Hello Txortx, just sharing my experience here, not daring to suggest The answer.As i have received hex 58.5 on several occasions when dealing with a relationship issue, i would say that it all depends on the development of the relationship with your prospective partner itself.

In my case ,the general outlook of the relationship was rather positive, in other words i was able to believe i was doing fine, so i took the 58.8 as a warning the I Ching was giving me not to let negativity in, not to get entangled in negative thoughts.Otherwise the 54 would be awaiting me, ie, a handicapped position from the start.

So, if you asked the I Ching your question because you already feel some drawbacks, you have an undermining hunch that gives you ground to formulate such a doubt, then i think Trojan is right in that a slight detachment or reserve would be advisable , to get a better picture without getting (so) hurt.

But if it is a case of a "preventive" question, then the question itself could be considered by the I Ching as the first sign of (unjustified) negativity.

I hope this could help.Happy New Year for u too.

 

[txortx]

Hello Ivonne and thanks for your answer.

I think you are right. I asked "what would this relationship mean to me?" and the answer was 36. I suppose that Yi is trying to tell me that the time for a relationship with her is yet to come.

The I asked if I should withdraw from her and the answer was: 5.5.

When I asked if there's anything left to do with her, I draw 14.2.5!!

It is a very ambiguous situation

 

[txortx]

Trajan,

Many thanks for your input. It has shown true. I think I will withdraw a bit an see how it develops. I think she is in a very bad moment, and she's using me someway to go out all her wrath, even though I believe she wants a relationship with me, somehow.

 

[ivonne]

I am glad you are coming to terms with your own picture of the situation. However, i think the way you formulate your questions can lead you to a slightly blurred view of the answer, as a safer way is to avoid yes/no questions.Ex.: instead of asking " is there's anything left to do with her" try: " what is the the best way for me to proceed in this situation" or "what can i expect from her now?", or sth like that. Anyway , wh...questions seem to give us a more stable feedback.

Hex 36 ( unchanged) answers a question that , although a wh...one, looks rather strange to me, as "what sth would mean" is quite different from "what it really means" .You see, as you probably know, by consulting the I Ching we are addressing the subconscious (let's call it like this), i would even say the superpersonal , or even higher levels, where a word such as "would "has probably no meaning at all.
Even so , i would lol read hex 36 as :keep your faith in the time of darkness, don't reveal too much of your feelings. This seems to be confirmed by hex 5.5, indicating constructive , hopeful waiting with line 5 telling you that it's a time to pause, that you won't have it all at one go.

Hex 14.2.5 ( well, are you the car that can go far carrying a load? it may be needed here), sicerity is there for sure, and it takes you to hex 13 as the relating hex, which indicates companionship, empathy.

On the whole, it looks to me that , yes, it's going to a struggle, she may need a friendly shoulder to cry on, and if you were expecting e classic love relationship from the start, you may feel a bit 54-ish, but the overall situation seems to indicate that your part in it may prove worth an affort.

Take care, and tell us a bit more of the results later on, if you pease

Ivonne

 

[ivonne]

.... if you please

 

[txortx]

Trojan, sorry... ))

 

[txortx]

of course I will. Thank you for your input. I really appreciate it. And yes, I have the same feeling, it will take a time for her to get heal and be able to open her heart to start a fresh new relation...

 

[lucia]

I received the exact same hex 58.5 > 54 the other day when I asked about the situation in Gaza right now.....

Lucia

 

[txortx]

well, i have been talking to her this morning about slowing things down and after a long conversation I asked the I-Ching "how is our relationship now". I got 46.3.6

I suppose this means all the conversation gave rise to a feeling of easiness that can be missleading and make me think things are more relaxed than they really are (line 3), but that even though I cannot see where it all is leading me I cannot stop now, but I should be very carefull in my way to advance (line 6). am I right?

 

[Trojina]

well, i have been talking to her this morning about slowing things down and after a long conversation I asked the I-Ching "how is our relationship now". I got 46.3.6

I suppose this means all the conversation gave rise to a feeling of easiness that can be missleading and make me think things are more relaxed than they really are (line 3), but that even though I cannot see where it all is leading me I cannot stop now, but I should be very carefull in my way to advance (line 6). am I right?

I think this answer reflects previous answers you've had. You are somewhat in the dark here. The relating hexagram is 4, 'not knowing'...you can't really know whats going on at this time and perhaps its as well you accept that. 46.3 shows someone seeming to make easy progress but to where ? Can this girl offer what you think she can ? 46.3 can mean its easy to get what you want but when you do you find it worthless. In 46.6 one pushes on without really knowing why or where you're headed. People vary over whether it is advised here to continue on like a seed which must push on through the dark earth even when it doesn't know when it will find the light...or that its better not to keep pushing when you don't know where you are going. Given your other answers I'm inclined to feel perhaps you just need to keep an awareness that you don't know everything yet about this relationship and hold back a little, not as in restraining the relationship exactly just not giving trust too easily. In the end it comes down to how much you are happy to trust when you really don't know someone. As you had 36 earlier I think perhaps you'd be better playing your cards close to your chest.

Having said that of course you'll learn more abut her through talking to her than you will by talking to us...what I mean is sometimes theres a danger a person goes more by what the Yi says than by what their partner is telling them.

I think anyway you are right to be careful for now and to take your time in sharing things with her

 

[ivonne]

Hard to say, you seem to be guided by the answers from the I Ching, as your feelings/impression you had after the talk are not here in this post. Nor her reaction to your suggestion. Did you feel it was uplifting? Brought some relief , at least to you? Did she agree with you that slowing down is a good idea for the realtionship? In my opinion that's what would give you the clue on how to proceed further on.

Anyway, to me , personally, and i have received this line alot recently, means : there are no enemies to fight, the obstacles may not be there anymore(the city is empty), so take advantage of this moment of clear the way. On the other hand , to push forward without reflecting on things would be unwise.
This leads to the relating hex 64 , where things seem to get more orderly.So, effort is needed to tidy the mess up, so to speak, before the goal is reached.

Well, isn't it exactly what you have done so far?

Maybe, just maybe, a question like "what is her position in the relationship after the talk? " would tell you something more satisfactory and substantial.

All the best.
Ivonne

 

[ivonne]

Gosh, it seems that i was posting my answer just when Trojan was posting his Sorry , if we overlap in some little bits...

 

[txortx]

Thanks to both of you for your invaluable deep insight.

When I proposed her to take our time and that I wanted to have my time alone, she agreed without problems. Some or her reactions where: "So I shouldn't invite you to my next party?" or "wouldn't you allow me to invite you to dine for your birthday?" So I suppose she was somehow in a good mood...

I also asked the Yi "how she felt after the conversation?" and I got an interesting hx: 12.3.4 (was she ashamed of her previos behavior? was the obstruction to a better relationship between us beginning to start?)

Next I asked "what should I do in this new situation?" and i draw: 64.1.2.5: the time for actions is no ripe, but if I stay calm and wait for it patientely, it will be wonderful? Just to be sure I put the question in another way: What should I do to correct this situation and make it work? And the answer was 3.1.2.3 leading to the Well. So, should I suppose this is a new start and it requires taking care very carefully of all the aspects?

Trojan, at this moment is hard to know if this worth the effort, but for some reason I feel I should. Just for you I have just asked: What can she offer me in a relationship? and i have got 15.3.4. Does it mean that she can make me humble and this way be able to fulfill all what I want?

 

[Trojina]

Gosh, it seems that i was posting my answer just when Trojan was posting his Sorry , if we overlap in some little bits...

hey I'm a lady can't you tell

 

[Trojina]

Hard to say, you seem to be guided by the answers from the I Ching, as your feelings/

Anyway, to me , personally, and i have received this line alot recently, means : there are no enemies to fight, the obstacles may not be there anymore(the city is empty), so take advantage of this moment of clear the way. On the other hand , to push forward without reflecting on things would be unwise.
This leads to the relating hex 64 , where things seem to get more orderly.So, effort is needed to tidy the mess up, so to speak, before the goal is reached.

Well, isn't it exactly what you have done so far?

Maybe, just maybe, a question like "what is her position in the relationship after the talk? " would tell you something more satisfactory and substantial.

All the best.
Ivonne

Eh ? 46.3.6 lead to hexagram 4 by my reckoning

 

[Trojina]

Trojan, at this moment is hard to know if this worth the effort, but for some reason I feel I should. Just for you I have just asked: What can she offer me in a relationship? and i have got 15.3.4. Does it mean that she can make me humble and this way be able to fulfill all what I want?

Just for me ? Hmm well first I think asking the oracle too much can get you really confused, stay with your first answers before asking more...but anyhow very quickly I don't think its about making you humble rather 15 is about accepting things as they are, honesty, integrity.....Perhaps you should endeavour to be very honest with yourself about hte relationship, really listen to what she says. Try not to let your dreams and fantasies make you see things in her that aren't there.

 

[txortx]

ok! thanks

 

[ivonne]

You are right Trojan ,i am sorry, my mistake Txortx, the relating hex is 4 Not Knowing.

" What should I do to correct this situation and make it work? And the answer was 3.1.2.3 leading to the Well."

3.1.2.3>48
You are facing initial difficulties, and in this resides your anxiety.Yet , in this original chaos there are necessary frictions that will eventually polish the outcome.So, endure this, be close to your emotions , feelings , to your hunch.You need to make use of your heart/ intuition, which stands for the missing guide who is to lead you through this dense forest.

But, to me, there is something important you said in your last post: for SOME reason you should make an effort. And this "take" , which is truly yours , may be the most valuable guide here.

So, there goes a question to you (just for a change lol)- Which would be more painful to you right now: to give up trying, refrain from reaching out for a dim, doubtful goal , or to try and possibly fail? When you answer this question, or a similar one, i believe you will finally KNOW what to do.
That would be acting with integrity .

Take care

Ivonne

 

[txortx]

Thanks Ivonne.

First of all, I have been thinking about 46.3.6 and it is just an image of what has happened this afternoon. I feel line 3 is a clear representation of the inexistence of obstructions while we kept our conversation. It was an easy talk. But line 6, imo is a reminder: you can have relatively short periods of mutual receptivity and you have to be aware when the time for withdrawal has arrived. Otherwise you would become too implied and you would start to try to advance blindly and would not be able to listen your internal voice. Progress makes your firmness weak, selfconfidence takes control. This is line 6.

 

[txortx]

Secondly, I don't consider hx 4 as Not Knowing. I consider it as "A new lesson is just about to start". I use to draw it almost once a week. I think that every time you progress and you are one step closer to your target, you need to learn new things and you have to start a new lesson.

 

[ivonne]

I absolutely agree with you, i think we're heading home

Not knowing implies a lesson, learning.
I was about to tell you but gave up on second thought, when i posted you my previous reply with that "crucial" question, that , even a failure that results from a honorable quest , so to speak, can prove worthwhile in the long run as it stands for a new, enriching lesson,makes us wiser.

Any way you turn, good luck all ways

Ivonne

 

[txortx]

I think this thread is over. Thank you Ivonne, thank you Trojan. Now for a rest.