Hexagram 6.5 to 64

[arabella]

Perhaps the Exit of a Friend?

Thanks -- changed my mind on posting this.

 

[pocossin]

Alas, Arabella. I'd have responded if you had give more time.

 

[arabella]

Sorry Poccosin -- I was thinking perhaps it was a boring question and not that significant in the scheme of things. But if you have impressions, I'll gladly reconstruct what I was saying. I have a friend who made huge attempts to flee the madding crowd. As one of the few single men around here, he was besieged by gossiping women. He moved to the side of a mountain, giving up his luxury home, lots of friends, a huge number of activities in town, even a political post. He wants to look at his future with less interference he said. He and i have remained friends and I was invited to see his mountain lair for a day. it's a distinct change, except that it's mostly organised around his kids -- who are all adults with their own families.

He asked my opinion on a number of practical matters [decorating, entertaining, travel to the States] and when I got home I wrote two emails to him -- one giving advice on living in a remote place in the Winter -- how to stock up and be safe. The other saying that I thought an immediate part of his new direction in life should be to consider how he has once more organised his home [at least half of it] around potential visits from kids who are very far away. Only one of them sees much of him. Having "been there -- done that" this is what occurred to me. That this is a "mindset" he may want to review.

After sending these off, I wondered if I was pushing my ideas at a time when he was already struggling to adjust, if he would resent this intrusion at an already demanding moment. So I asked the Yi --

What is the result of offering these opinions? Hex 6.5 becoming 64
Will he be in touch anymore? Hex 28.2 becoming 31

Because he's in the midst of a huge transition and been silent since I wrote my opinion on adult children, I'm debating whether to leave him be now, or just go on like everything is as it's always been. Thanks Poccossin for speaking up!

 

[pocossin]

What is the result of offering these opinions?
6.5 > 64

I associate hexagram 6 with withdrawal and 64 with transition. That is the situation of your friend. The line text is auspicious and seems to refer to the case you made. The result should be that he will be more aware of his situation. Hexagram 64 concerns the danger of a winter accident, and I think you covered that in your email.

Will he be in touch anymore?
28.2 > 31

Both hexagram suggests contact, so I would say Yes. You were supportive of his situation (28) and 31 suggests attachment. Line 2 is auspicious and suggests a person redefining himself (looking at his future). I am reminded of Walden, Thoreau's place of solitude, yet two chapters are devoted to visitors -- 6. Visitors, and 14. Former Inhabitants and Winter Visitors. Somewhere he considers the dangers of solitary living, and although it's not described in the book, his stay was not without peril. In the second year he was kicked by a horse. I think his spleen was injured, and he never wholly recovered.

 

[chingching]

I wanted to respond intially but both hex 6 and 28.2 i have no insights or anything of value to say.

...except maybe remembering patro's thread on 28 and rosada pointing out that it represents a telephone line with two receivers or something like that.

 

[arabella]

What is the result of offering these opinions?
6.5 > 64

I associate hexagram 6 with withdrawal and 64 with transition. That is the situation of your friend. The line text is auspicious and seems to refer to the case you made. The result should be that he will be more aware of his situation. Hexagram 64 concerns the danger of a winter accident, and I think you covered that in your email.

Will he be in touch anymore?
28.2 > 31

Both hexagram suggests contact, so I would say Yes. You were supportive of his situation (28) and 31 suggests attachment. Line 2 is auspicious and suggests a person redefining himself (looking at his future). I am reminded of Walden, Thoreau's place of solitude, yet two chapters are devoted to visitors -- 6. Visitors, and 14. Former Inhabitants and Winter Visitors. Somewhere he considers the dangers of solitary living, and although it's not described in the book, his stay was not without peril. In the second year he was kicked by a horse. I think his spleen was injured, and he never wholly recovered.

Wow -- very insightful! I really hope there's not an accident up there but I also can't imagine him coping easily on such a slope. I did what he is doing last year because a place in the hills was the only thing available. Thought I was lucky until it snowed and then suddenly realised what effort it would take just to get food and was hiking a mile to my car every day in drifts to get to work. It was the WORST experience of my life, bar none and I'm so worried about him. In the mental state he is in I'm just afraid he's seeing the romantic side and not the practical -- which would be exactly the opposite of his normal personality and he stands to be very shocked. Of course, he's a grown man, much my senior in fact, and there's nothing I can do.

I hope he does stay in touch especially as he's in such an isolated position. It's a difficult situation to watch andI've had the feeling I might not hear from him, so I'm glad if you think he will remain in contact. We've been friends through "thick and thin," but he seems exasperated with his life and on a quest for something else.

 

[arabella]

I wanted to respond intially but both hex 6 and 28.2 i have no insights or anything of value to say.

...except maybe remembering patro's thread on 28 and rosada pointing out that it represents a telephone line with two receivers or something like that.

Two receivers is an interesting idea -- meaning what? That one person does all the talking and the other all the listening?

 

[arabella]

I was also interested in what LiSe had to say about 6.5 being The Gong -- but I've never really understood the implications of that. Is The Gong some pronouncement that seems oppressive or more something that is taken in to good effect -- more like a "wake up" call?

 

[Trojina]

Aren't these answers really clear and literal ?

6.5 says contention brings good fortune..ie arguing, presenting a case, which you did brings good fortune. That would seem like it was not a mistake to put this case about how he arranges his home

However if a friend of mine visited me and later emailed me about how I choose to arrange my home in relation to my kids visiting I would resent it.


Me and Yi differ on this so thats good news for you

Having said that whilst contending in 6.5 is apparently fortunate you have to look at the hexagram itself which is 'conflict' so you are actually in argument with him..or thats how Yi shows it. Then Yi shows its not wrong to argue here (6.5). I don't think this gurantees he feels sweetly about it at all, afterall 'arguing' never is...but apparently Yi says it was good to do it....and he can't be that pissed off can he or the relationship wouldn't have a bitof rejuventating in the 28.2 would it

Is 28.2 really a mystery to you here ? Its about renewal isn't it so answers your question clearly IMO

 

[Trojina]

I was also interested in what LiSe had to say about 6.5 being The Gong -- but I've never really understood the implications of that. Is The Gong some pronouncement that seems oppressive or more something that is taken in to good effect -- more like a "wake up" call?

I think theres the idea of a mediator in 6.5...you aren't just arguing you are trying to work through to something In practise of course there generally isn't some mediator hanging around in real life situations

 

[arabella]

I think theres the idea of a mediator in 6.5...you aren't just arguing you are trying to work through to something In practise of course there generally isn't some mediator hanging around in real life situations

I think to put the idea in context -- whether we are arguing and how angry he might be -- i was suggesting not devoting half his home to people who aren't generally there and somehow dictate a lot of his life by default -- because this is what was happening to me. I was keeping the old homestead for my kids and they literally had to tell me to stop. It made them feel guilty while I was funding, decorating,cleaning rooms they hardly ever saw. Meanwhile, my own life was stagnated and I wanted to move on -- but wasn't. This is what I was advising him. That he had changed EVERYTHING, but maybe not one thing that really would keep him bogged down, stuck with a huge house and nobody in it but him. This was what he was trying to avoid, I had thought. So it wasn't just how he arranged the furniture, but how he was viewing his life, that I was highlighting. He kept saying "I hope I'm not too old." So long as you are focused on other people and not your own life, it makes it hard to be spry and forward-thinking.

I hope he got the point because I wouldn't hurt him for the world. If I'm mediating it's probably between him and him -- or the point of view he put out when he turned his life upsidedown versus what he appears to be doing.

 

[rodaki]

Quoting myself -really presumptuous of me, right? . . actually I love how chingching mistook me for Rosada, I think she's one of the great ones around and one of my favorites -I feel quite honored actually

. . 28 is about a strong line between two 'receivers' (1st and 6th) . .

and then it was Brad's translation of 28's image that was quoted:

'The noble young one, accordingly, stands alone and undaunted
And steps back from the world without sorrow'

Taking into consideration the image, I think 28.2 is not necessarily answering directly your q. Arabela, but painting out the outline of the situation. If this was my reading, I would probably read it as saying that your friend is experiencing a new situation, his life has branched off in a new way (the poplar with the new shoot) and that how it will progress depends a lot on how he will feel trying this new arrangement out . .

Again, not saying this is the truth but certainly an aspect of this reading . .

 

[Trojina]

I'd take the 28.2 as a direct answer.

The question was 'will he be in touch anymore'...well an old tree bears new flowers, an old relationship rejuvenates. I can't see any reason not to take this directly

 

[rodaki]

hi T

I'm still taking this as answering the situation but not imposing only one certain truth on a situation that is still unfolding
. . you might disagree with it but I prefer keeping the options of a reading open.
That's how I read for myself so that's how I read others' readings too. As I said, I didn't intend this as the truth, but as one more aspect of the reading . . the new shoot comes in a context of moving away from what has been too much or overgrowing and that could go either way -or even it could go in a completely new direction no one can foresee from where we 're standing now

 

[Trojina]

The post wasn't so much to disagree with you as to reiterate to Abella I thought the answer quite literal and see no reason why a more distant approach to it would be taken

Yes i understand your interpretation is another aspect of the answer perhaps, I wasn't objecting to it only disagreeing with it

 

[arabella]

I understand what both of you are saying Rodaki and Trojan. I can't help feeling that my heart goes toward Trojan's reading because I hope I'm not losing a friend -- or if I am that at some future point he will be back. It's a friendship with a funny history that has really ebbed and flowed and that has weathered a lot that has been thrown at us individually. Still the friendship prevailed. But it seems now that he is taking a turn in the road that has removed him from everything and everyone. The logistics of where he has gone are interesting in psychological terms. Another enormous house outfitted predominantly for people who seldom visit, while his quarters are sort of under the eaves. A massive entertaining space when he's just moved off and left all of his friends and gone to a place you have to be brave even to drive a car. A view of two valleys and, although at some distance, is the church and cemetery where his wife was buried four years ago. I know that none of us controls everything about choosing a home, but I'm taking this scenario seriously -- and thinking it doesn't look very happy, despite all he's done to "free" himself.

Although I'm a bit hesitant to continue with somebody who is answering only intermittently -- and lately not at all, I asked the Yi:

What is the result if I continue to stay in touch anyway? Hexagram 46.2.3.5 becoming 8.

Sounds like it's worthwhile but I've never really understood the "empty city" in line 3. The fifth line looks positive and 8 as an outcome seems to say we remain friends, but it also looks like this remains a tentative process for some time. I just don't know if I'm up to it. It's so unaffirming and in some ways even draining to talk into a black hole.

 

[Trojina]

well Rodaki and I are both aware of the history so its quite interesting when we disagree...as overall i think we agreed about the situation. Romantically this guy has never been a good bet now has he...so Dora is probably right.....but in the end generally we both try to get you disentangled from him I think ...like a pair of I Ching paramedics

I don't see why you can't continue being friends and the last reading supports this. 46.3 often says 'well theres no obstacles here now but hang on...do you want it anyway...theres nothing for you there, its an empty city" so maybe what you think you want from him isn't actually what you really want or what he has to give. Nevertheless it would seem theres some reason to continue, gently and gradually (46.5)

 

[Trojina]

there is afterall nothing to lose by staying in touch is there ?

 

[arabella]

there is afterall nothing to lose by staying in touch is there ?

Thanks T. No, there's nothing of romantic interest. I suppose there's that ongoing debate -- can men and women BE friends? I think that we are and we've certainly shared some good times. Interestingly, when he was first in the throes of moving he was in touch with me every day and every message I sent, there was an immediate response. As though to say -- don't think I'm dumping you when I dump this lifestyle? In any case, that wasn't easy in the midst of moving, so it seemed significant for some reason.

Overall, there's nothing to lose now except that I have that "black hole" feeling when there's no answer over a period. Not a supportive relationship at the moment from my point of view. And yet, I think right now I'm a lot stronger than he is. That's the 46.3 portion I imagine. Kind of talking into the abyss because he has nothing to give in return.

And yet the 46.5 is what I continue to feel as well -- that staying in contact is important although not reciprocated -- and someday I will find out why. I was talking to my son about the situation last night and he said this guy sounds seriously depressed.

 

[rodaki]

hello! -I'm having a very busy weekend and couldn't reply earlier.

ahem . . I think that my interpretation is being skewed a little bit here - my point was not that you and your friend might not have contact again but that the answer was inviting you to take into consideration the whole context, the fact that things went too far and the offspring of that was a new turn/shoot/ place of residence/lifestyle etc. Iow, to take everything into consideration here, and not only the specifics of your pov . .

I thought that this is also the advice of 6.5: look at this thru an objective mind - and since usually the opinions that are too driven are considered something to rise above, 'objective mind' can also be called here 'higher mind'

Following that line of interpr. I'd tend to read your 46 to 8 in a similar way: find how things go together, put the puzzle together (perhaps also find your own answers?) by seeing every piece of it as another step to completion. In fact, I have often received 46 calling for 'rising above' a situation or reach an 'elevated' pov . . That's not meant to be an elitist thing though cause to achieve it there is a lot of work on the ground that's needed -it's like raising a building, how high it can get starts from the foundations . Perhaps 46.2 says that a small step in the beginning is enough; I sometimes wonder, looking back, whether line 3 can be abt hurrying thru a situation, wanting so much to work thru it that you don't really look at it, or there's a piece of the puzzle you can't see? then line 5 don't try to skip steps . . allow both others and yourself the time and space to reach the place/awareness you're looking for, respect the process . .

Anyways, as T said we do know a bit of the past here rofl: about the paramedics! means we have to be swift and tough enough to handle the trauma field?? ) yet we can only speak tentatively . .

hope it helps!

 

[sooo]

A caring woman's wise and compassionate words should never be underestimated as having a comforting effect to a man who has moved into isolation and may be clinging to his memories, so long as the woman respects that his needs may involve aspects not entirely known to her. That's how I interpret 6.5-64, in this case.

 

[arabella]

A caring woman's wise and compassionate words should never be underestimated as having a comforting effect to a man who has moved into isolation and may be clinging to his memories, so long as the woman respects that his needs may involve aspects not entirely known to her. That's how I interpret 6.5-64, in this case.

Thanks Sooo. Your counsel here inspired a brief and heart-felt message to my friend that I hope helps him to launch his new direction with the caring and support that I'd intended. I'm concerned but, as you've said, there's a lot I don't know. So best to wish him well and give him the benefit of my unreserved confidence and support. I don't imagine he knows what he needs or wants right now and that's what he's trying to figure out by going off on his own. I'll just hope and pray for the best for him.

Thanks, as ever, Rodaki and Trojan, for wading in to the maelstrom with your paramedic expertise. Let's hope this is the last time it's needed!

 

[arabella]

BTW, I cast for the result of sending this latest message:

Hexagram 11.1.5 becoming Hexagram 48. That sounds like a good effect and a message well worth sending. I hope that puts him in a good space then for his travels and into the future.

 

[sooo]

Sounds like you've tapped into his keg.

 

[arabella]

Sounds like you've tapped into his keg.

Yes, that one short message has made all the difference Sooo. Thanks for the man's point of view. He said that he truly appreciated that brief and heartfelt vote of support for whatever he needs to do. He didn't really need to tell me, I could hear it in his voice when he called. And we made a dinner date. It's amazing, like some log-jam broke.

 

[hopex]

I like the thing about being a telephone - reckon it means both
ways Arabella - or just simply that communication via tellingbone

 

[arabella]

Interesting update on this situation. Hurricane storms blew out all the electric on the eve our dinner date and although we pulled it off and kept the date it wasn't what I had hoped for at all for so many reasons. We left the restaurant in a whirlwind [literally]. I haven't heard from him since and he doesn't answer my messages. I think this may be well and truly finished. But I'm still glad that I saw it through to the end, if that's what this is.

 

[arabella]

I've given a lot of thought to what went wrong here, on the night. Although I can't go into enormous detail, it was something of a "comedy of errors" that neither of us has control over, the weather was abominable and we both just jumped into cars and left, which was rather a let down for all the build up but really necessary in the midst of a gale. He had asked me what view i have of him now and the decisions he has made, including his recent move into the hills. With others listening in i replied fairly vaguely and wrote my real thoughts to him a day afterward. Maybe it upset him.

I've asked the Yi "What was the effect of what I wrote?" and received: Hexagram 9.3.5.6 becoming Hexagram 19.

One thing I was really uncertain about was commenting on his move to a hill overlooking his wife's grave. I thought doing that put her death into a certain perspective he hadn't had before, as part of a much larger landscape. But I thought maybe I took a risk saying that. I think the move to such a place which requires more muscle is a guy thing in many ways. And I spoke about the healing power of nature and natural sound, as well as the "fresh start" mentality of leaving town and associations that place expectations on him every day that he may not need or want any more.

I'm wondering if 9.3 refers to my reference to his widower status? Or maybe to the likelihood that things in his "house" are quite fragile and you walk on eggs trying to contribute any comments of substance? The other two lines would seem to refer to my trying to offer help which may be appreciated, but which he simply can't incorporate. Maybe he just has to go away and think about it all for a while.

 

[arabella]

Hope I'm not boring anyone with the continuing saga, but I know when I search the archives it's always frustrating to see things left hanging and I can't understand how a casting played out.

The fact of the matter here: 9.3.5.6 becoming 19 -- is that my friend has been trying fruitlessly to contact me for the past three days. I left my mobile phone in the car, having left it on the charger out there and just found his messages this morning. The comedy of errors continues. So he has "approached" me after my comments and apparently has considered them although, according to 9.5 that must has been difficult. I've never understood 9.6 to be honest but if it has something to do with running indoors from the car in the rain and forgetting your phone -- this is just what happened!

 

[arabella]

So, have cleared up the latest misunderstanding with a phone call and I've had a great open conversation with this guy. We are on the same page -- finally -- after so many years. Everything just relaxed. And I get to be myself, which is the way it always should have been. Glad I took the risk to keep going with this and spelling out my concern for him as recommended by Sooo. And thanks to Trojan and Rodaki for their advice and suggestions all these months. With help from these interpretations of the Yi, it's become a different relationship entirely from where it began. Does anybody besides me find this amazing?