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Hi, yet another relationship question

hitchhiker

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Hi, I've just joined as a Friend, after lurking for a while. As I mentioned in a previous post, I came to I Ching by way of a freeware Palm program, which I found useful and interesting enough for me to want to know more. Yesterday, I used the Clarity computer reading and came up with the following. I was wondering if anyone could help me clarify them. Apart from my own inexperience, I am also afraid of being too subjective in my interpretation.

Background: I've been dating a guy for just over 2 years. It's had its ups and downs but I was under the impression that it was getting better. In October, we had a fight, over something relatively trivial in my own view, but which seemed to have catalysed a break up. He ended it without wanting to talk about it, work things through or anything. I feel like he's just turned it off like a light switch, but thought I should give him the time and space, as my pushing too hard was what caused him to withdraw in the first place. It's been about a month and I haven't heard from him so I asked the I Ching several questions (did I ask too many? I wanted as many perspectives on the matter as I could.)

1. Will we get another chance to work things out? yielded #16 (Enthusiasm).
The same hexagram came up for "Where do he and I go from here?" Is this positive?

2. What shall I do in the meantime? yielded
#36 (Darkening of the Light) changing to #3 (Difficulty at the beginning)
Moving lines: 3 and 5.
Seems to suggest if I persevere I'll see the light eventually. It means I have to cultivate patience?
(I am by nature not a patient person...)

3. What forces are at work in our relationship now? yielded
#8 (Holding Together)
About a week or two ago, I asked whether our relationship had a longterm future and got the same hexagram.

4. How can I make it easier for him to cope with whatever he is facing? (he's got some personal problems that's not to do with me)
#20 (Contemplation) changing to #8 (Holding together), moving line 6.

5. Should I try to initiate contact?
#9 (The Taming Power of the Small) changing to #26 (The Taming Power of the Great), moving line 5

6. Should I remain silent and wait for him to approach me?
#34 (The Power of the Great) changing to #43 (Breakthrough), moving line 5.

Am I correct in intuiting that the advice seems to be to sort out my own inner self first? I'm sorry if there are so many questions. I have a compulsive need to understand the situation cos the breakup came as a bombshell. I am torn between calling him and trying to sort things out, and worried that doing so will make things worse. To try or not to try? SHOULD I even think of trying?

Running myself around in circles. Would be grateful for any insight any one has to offer.

Thanks.
hh
 
C

candid

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Welcome Hitchhiker,

That's quite allot of questions to ask about what amounts to one real question: "What should I do about this relationship?"

I think you hit the nail squarely with your own interpretation: Sort out your inner self first. This appears to lead away from the goal you are striving for, buts its merely preparation to do what will give you the most satisfying results. "Hold together (keep it together), contemplate from a high position for a clearer perspective and work on small seemingly insignificant things in order to accumulate weight and momentum toward your goal. When the rain (time for action) comes, you will then be ready to meet it with clarity and power.

Thanks for your contribution. Hope this helps.

Candid
 

hitchhiker

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Candid, thank you for being so - well - candid with me.
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I know I asked a lot of questions but as you can tell I was trying to cover it from as many angles as possible. :p And sometimes the best answers are really the simplest. Thank you for your response, I needed someone to confirm my own hunches that all the different hexagrams seem to point to my need to sort out my inner self. It's tough though - I'm very much a "fix it" sort of person. It's hard for me to just sit back and wait. And of course there's this innate fear that when the moment to act comes, I might miss it... So you think I should leave things be for a while yet? (Sorry, it's hard to curb the urge to DO something, you know what I mean?)

Although I am not too familiar with the hexagrams yet, I find that I am learning fast. Am glad to have found this site, and Hilary, if you read this, am glad you started it.
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Thank you!
hh
 

bfireman

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Hitchhiker-

Welcome aboard. I am realatively new here too, and I think you will find that if you stick around you will be amazed at how much insight you will learn from everyone who posts here. It is truly an amazing forum! (thanks everyone!)

Regarding your questions, I am not gonna try to interpret the hex's for you, because I just don't feel ready yet, but I can offer a bit of personal advice as I have recently been living through a very similar expereince you describe. It is very difficult to sit back and wait, but if you continue to consult the I-Ching, you will see you will consistently be counseled to do exactly this if you are consumed with such feelings as fear, doubt, anxiety, worry, etc. It is precisely these types of feelings which cut you off from recognizing the correct thing to do or say in any given moment. Seems to be how the I-Ching has counseled you though your set of questions regarding this relationship. How you work though these mental traps of fear and worry is a very personal thing. It has been my experience that to truly not be ruled by such feelings takes much and constant inner work of being brutaly honest with yourself. Also, I have found that by sitting around and "thinking" about things is sometimes the best thing to do, other times the absolute worst. It is difficult to determine when consumed by fear and doubt which thoughts are really "true" for you and who is in fact running the show. I would strongly suggest finding any kind of activity or practice which allows you to focus on the present and leave the world of "thinking", not as some sort of escape from the situation, but simply to connect you to your truth beyond your fear and doubt and worry. Well, I am probably babbling a bit here, but these thoughts have been at the forefront for me lately... Hope all works out for the best... The I-Ching really is great for helping to see things clearly in these situations. The more you learn to trust, the more you will be helped.

Namaste - Brian
 

hitchhiker

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Hey Brian, you're not babbling. You're making sense. That's what I've been trying to do, just concentrating on the little things - work, household chores, etc. Not to escape as you say, but to allow myself to be in the present. I've been reading quite a bit about mindfulness these days. I'm appreciative of the insight you've offered. Funny how one knows the answers all along, but yet needs to hear it from someone else.

Thank you,
hh
 
C

candid

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Thanks for your replay, Hitchhiker. You catch on quick!
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Its interesting that you point out the confirmation of what you already know from the Ching. Its shows that your intuition is at work and that you already are awake to the trends and patterns in your life, even before consulting the Ching. That's really the whole point, as far as I'm concerned. To "see" how things work and to then emulate the elements and interactions according to your highest ideals.

Consider that you have been going through these same changes all along since you were born, possibly eons longer, if one considers reincarnation or past existences. These same changes are a fact of life! The only difference now is that you have a reference point and a means of 'knowing' objectively what the situation looks like.

There are many layers in the Yi experience. I'm not talking so much about beginning and advanced. I mean that the Ching integrates with our psyche different ways at different times. Or, it will mean something immediately, then down the road its meaning will expand to a greater value yet.

Brian, I honestly wouldn't know that you haven't been involved with the Ching for a long time. But then, the Ching isn't only conduit of the same wisdom. There is only one source, after all. Just different angles to view it from. You?ve obviously have been a ?viewer? for quite a long time.

While I'm here, I read a beautiful quote yesterday which I'll share:

"Most people believe in God. They just don't believe in a God believes in them..."

Namaste,
Candid
 

hitchhiker

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Candid - wonderful quote! I think I've always been intuitive in some way, I just never had a way of making sense of it before. Needless to say I won't be consulting the I Ching re the relationship for the time being. It's given me a lot to think about for a while.

I wonder if you could share your thoughts on the part of #8 that says "Whoever comes too late meets with misfortune". This is the bit that got me wondering about whether I should make contact or not, and that if I left reconciliation til too late, it'll be - well - too late. Or does it refer to coming too late to self-knowledge?

Thanks again
hh
 

hitchhiker

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Hi, everyone. It's me again. I work at the computer a lot so I'm online all the time. Forgive my enthusiasm, but I feel like a toddler learning how to walk and every step is like a huge leap!

I just wanted to add that I've spent the day looking at my hexagrams (above) using the Wilhelm/Baynes translation which I downloaded from Clarity (thank you, Hilary). I had previously relied on the Palm software to interpret the images and offer suggestions, as well as a book I picked up at a second-hand store called Secrets of the I Ching by Joseph Murphy. The Palm software is great but I believe Murphy's book can be somewhat misleading as he "explains" the hexagrams using Bible verses and imagery, and offers "advice" accordingly (Eg. "exalt God and you will find success", etc.). Not that I have anything against the teachings of the Bible, but I think you can't translate one text with another - both the Bible and the I Ching become immeasurably altered in some way.

So, I went and looked at the Wilhelm verses, which I have to say resonate with my situation a lot more (Hence my question to you about #8, Candid). I noticed that a number of hexagrams encourage me to "install helpers" or "seek helpers" or "appoint helpers". I wonder if that's what I'm doing now by joining this community!
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It might also mean to seek out the company of my friends - but I figured my friends, though sweet and caring, may not necessarily "help". Most of them are, bless them, supportive of me, and totally angry with him, which don't help me a whole lot, since I've long stopped being angry.

"Crossing the great water" came up a few times too. And from what I read in the other posts, it could refer to crossing a period of trial. But I wonder if it couldn't also mean a literal crossing of water? I am supposed to go overseas to complete a postgraduate degree next year and the impending separation was something we always broached but never properly discussed. I am wondering if the I Ching is trying to tell me to concentrate on that first? Especially in #26 which changed from #9 (which I think is asking me to take small steps):

"Not eating at home brings good fortune/It furthers one to cross the great water"

This was in response to "Should I initiate contact?" The Murphy text translated it as something like "Focus your mind on a new direction" which is ok but resonates much less. I'm not sure what the moving line 5 means though: "If you are sincere and loyally attached, you are rich in your neighbour." Hmm...

Oh well, hope I'm not babbling away too much. What began as an attempt to resolve my problems has now sparked my interest in developing my I Ching reading skills as well and I'm interested in any comments you might have. Am I totally off?

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hh
 
C

candid

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*chucklin here* Hitchhiker, I think you are totally on! I think intuitively, you know exactly what you 'ought' to do. Ching merely reflects it back to you. Just as you've said, a confirmation. I'll add: maybe just a peek around the corner. Its an almost unfair advantage. A gift for those curious enough - responsible enough - loving enough.

Oh yeah, 8. Well, let's say you have an appointment at 10am. You miss your train by a few minutes. You're going to be late for your appointment. In this case, let's called it - late for an appointment with what could have been your fate. Now, this is your fate, and you'll need to start a new thread, so to speak, to build momentum toward the goal you've either consciously or unconsciously have set out to accomplish, your destiny. Of course, its still all one thread and we don't really lose everything, just our momentum.

Without time, all this has already happened.
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Its not a really big deal to be able to skip ahead and a read a few pages before the present. But to us who live in a world of limitations, its a great spaceship through time and humanity. (Boy, have I wandered off topic or what?) Anyway, "don't miss your train," is how I interpret that part of 8.

As far as developing your reading skills, that is matter of how your natural self (tao) decides. Analytical people dissect it every which way. Philosophers philosophize it, atheists deny it, religions condemn it (or Condon it). None of that matters if you're on a mission to understand truth. Its a renuciation of 'that' system which places you at the mercy of your inner gods and demons. Not that they aren't useful and helpful. Perhaps these are the "helpers" you asked about? Or, are they we here at Clarity? Or, perhaps the Ching itself? Hey - maybe its your intuition! hmmm Who are the helpers? I say, they're are us. Each one of us helps another, and through this - our world holds together.

I think your enthusiasm is inspiring!
Candid
 

bfireman

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Hi Hitchhiker-

Like Candid, I am really enjoying your posts and enthusiasm. As long as your are sincerely curious, there is no end to what Candid describes as the many layers of the yi. Sometimes those "ahhh haaaa" moments just blow you away. As is being discussed in another thread now, keeping a journal or record is really helpful, because reflecting back on divinations is a really good way to increase your understanding of the hexagrams. Many lessons take time to emerge. If you are on line a lot, you most definitely need to check out LiSe's translation page. Hold on, you will be blown away...(thanks LiSe!!!!!!!!!!!)

http://www.anton-heyboer.org/i_ching/yi_index.html

Candid, I really enjoyed your poem! That sums up in a nutshell the major lesson the yi has been teaching me this past half year. All about trust and letting go and acceptance... I got this quote this past week from one of the "yogi teas" I was drinking...hmmm I think it was a lemon ginger...

"You are not a human being having a spiritual experience, you are a spiritual being having a human experience"

Happy thanksgiving everyone! - Brian
 

hitchhiker

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Heehee, Candid, like I said, patience isn't one of my virtues!
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You, "helpers", are my guinea pigs at the moment. No one else I can talk I Ching to right now. I've been reading about astrology and fengshui and stuff like that for a while, but all my friends think I'm just crazy.

I think the people here are inspiring!
hh

and ps. btw, I'm a cello enthusiast too! Took lessons for a couple of years. How's that for synchronicty?
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hitchhiker

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Hi Brian, thanks for the post. I'll check out the link when I can. Definitely having many "ahhh haaa" moments this week. And the thrill of finding people who don't think I've gone off the deep end. (Do you get that sometimes?)

Have just started keeping a record of readings cos I was losing track of what I had asked and what answers I was given.

Once again, thank you! Talk to you soon.
hh
 

hilary

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Hello Hitchhiker, and welcome, very belatedly. I had to drop in and say hello when you mentioned the 'cello!
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No, no-one here really thinks you've gone off the deep end, even if you have asked 6 or 8 questions at once
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. Or maybe we're just all swimming in the same pool. I get very used to telling people what I do, and saying 'you won't have heard of it, or if you have, you don't have to pretend to think this is normal or sensible, that's OK by me...'

Other things... I looked at Murphy's book once years ago, and I seem to remember thinking it was something of a waste of paper... Follow that link Brian gave you! Look, you don't even have to scroll up:
here it is again
One of the best things this website has done, IMHO, is to make more people aware of LiSe's translation. I can't recommend it strongly enough.

I've only skimmed through your readings quickly, but my initial impression is that making cautious contact with him, once you're feeling in control yourself, could be a good thing. But the reading on not contacting him does say that even if/when you lose, there are no real regrets. Hmm...

Just a first impression, just passing through. Concert in two days time, Mahler 5, and can I play it?
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hitchhiker

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Hi Hilary,

Cool, you can play Mahler? I only had lessons for about two years then had to give up for various reasons.

Coincidentally, I sent him a cautious msg today (before I read your post). Checked with the I Ching about whether I should do it and got: #61 changing to #59. Interestingly I got the same reading when I asked about a week ago "What do I mean to M?" So I took it as a positive but cautionary signal and sent a friendly message (about Liverpool Football Club's current form no less
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), got a friendly reply (that the real test will be against Man U on Sunday), and that was that. But it's ok. Miles better than the hostility from weeks ago. We'll see.

LiSe's interpretation for #59 was totally apt:
"... a flood destroys old structures, paving the way for a new fresh and as yet clean life, open for new possibilities..."

Only I'm not clear if this is what will happen, or what already has. I guess time will tell.

Thanks for the LiSe site (you too, Brian! and you LiSe, if you see this!) - it's great! I'm learning a lot.
hh
 

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