Holidays 29.1.6-61

[Grandma]

I am very upset because of the way my sisters and my mother were gossiping aobut me. I found out about it becuase one of my sisters J broke ranks and told me about the conversation. She said the other sister P said some very negative things aobut me.
Now the problem is the holidays are coming up and my daughter is living with my mother at the moment. I know my daughter wants to have the holiday with them because of all the food they cook and it would be more people than just the 2 of us.This incident has been causing me anguish since July when it happened and today my daughter tried to talk me into going there for TG but made it clear she very much wanted to have the holiday with them.


What should I do 39
Get more help about this situation. I am trying to find a therapist right now (have been looking anyway) and money is an issue. I found one that will see me once a month but I think I need more than that.

Sd I go to NY for ThanksGiving? 5..1.2-39
I cannot read this because I cannot be objective at all.


What sd I do about the gossipy sister 43.2.5-55


Remain cool and calm. Be cuatious and persevere, this is not a one time thing

How will I feel after I go (if I did go) 29.1.6-61

This seems like don't go. That I would feel like crap, it would be dangerous and undo the good I have been doing for myself.

 

[tiziano]

Hi Susan,

difficult situation, but I would try to be optimist. Especially I'm taking the final 61 as giving you hope.

IMO, everything seems to say you should go and make things clear by talking sincerely and openly, provided you can prepare yourself in the best way before the holidays.

What should I do 39
Get more help about this situation. I am trying to find a therapist right now (have been looking anyway) and money is an issue. I found one that will see me once a month but I think I need more than that.

Sd I go to NY for ThanksGiving? 5..1.2-39
I cannot read this because I cannot be objective at all.

So... 39 and 5 share the same external situation: danger (and unknown) is outside. Fits perfectly. Inside you get the suggestion to stop and strengthen yourself. Use this meantime to get stronger and make clear to yourself your own truth. Don't rush into danger, but find out your inner "law", honour it and build your integrity out of it. Be true to yourself and assert your rights. Try to dissipate anger (5.Image) and look at the bare facts. 5.Judgment talks about truth giving light through an honest commitment / sacrifice. Line 5.1 is you preparing "outside the walls" before going there and says you get harvest by remaining faithful to what endures. Carefully examine what's long-lasting and what is only temporary. Line 5.2 shows you and your relatives having some argument but "in the end, this is auspicious". I tend to consider 39 as the general background to the situation, providing the overall suggestion that you "cultivate your De", i.e. remain virtuous and truly know who you are and what you want.

What sd I do about the gossipy sister 43.2.5-55

Remain cool and calm. Be cuatious and persevere, this is not a one time thing

I'd read it as "proclaim your truth out loud with sincerity and take the command of your life". Once you've consolidated your De, don't sleep on it (43.Image) and be somewhat generous with it. I.e., use your awareness when you speak and do this in the most open and forgiving attitude you can. This means that by then you should have tried to understand their p.o.v., too; you'll be aware of why they did as they did and know they couldn't do anything different, because of their nature and limits. Anyway, the lines say you should be firm and not afraid of speak out your reasons loud and assertively. You can master the situation, you have all the requisites to do so. Maybe they will be a bit confused by this, but you won't.

How will I feel after I go (if I did go) 29.1.6-61

This seems like don't go. That I would feel like crap, it would be dangerous and undo the good I have been doing for myself.

Doing something good for yourself doesn't mean becoming isolated from the world, or from your family, even though they are unfair to you. In the end, this would generate only frustration.
The lines are tough and I think this reflects your actual position. Maybe it's too early to pose this question. You're still too weak and angry. Going in this condition would be a catastrophe. But you have the chance to prepare yourself in the meantime: use it. Be a teacher for yourself (29.Image). 61 may be nothing but your goal for now, but it can become reality if you really want. Pay particular attention to the "suspend your condemnations" part.
And, in the worst case, you should at least gain more trust and confidence toward yourself.

Best wishes!

 

[Trojina]

I am very upset because of the way my sisters and my mother were gossiping aobut me. I found out about it becuase one of my sisters J broke ranks and told me about the conversation. She said the other sister P said some very negative things aobut me.
Now the problem is the holidays are coming up and my daughter is living with my mother at the moment. I know my daughter wants to have the holiday with them because of all the food they cook and it would be more people than just the 2 of us.This incident has been causing me anguish since July when it happened and today my daughter tried to talk me into going there for TG but made it clear she very much wanted to have the holiday with them.


What should I do 39
Get more help about this situation. I am trying to find a therapist right now (have been looking anyway) and money is an issue. I found one that will see me once a month but I think I need more than that.

I don't think its a case of racing around looking for help, I think what may be needed more is a pause. You need to pause to see you can't climb over the obstacle, the mountain with your current appraoch. You need to reimagine the situation.. Sounds like you have versions of events and what they mean and what you might do....but wait, stop a moment...your other answers reflect this too IMO. I can't help wondering at the motive of the sister who told you they had said bad things about you. You got her version of it....but you weren't there and didn't hear what was said. You are viewing the situation like a great big mountain in front of you....but maybe you could go around it rather than over it...and also what really is the nature of that mountain. Apart from therapists what other allies might there be here...your daughter, your mum...39 suggests you don't isolate yourself or see yourself as the lone combatant

Sd I go to NY for ThanksGiving? 5..1.2-39
I cannot read this because I cannot be objective at all.

Exactly you cannot be objective...this answer is telling you there really is no rush for you to 'tackle' this.....actually its questionable how much there is to tackle yet. 5.1 suggests you take a breather and relax, there isn't anything to do yet...5.2 there are words, no doubt this relates to the gossip...but actually there's not much you can do about it...and also its a bit disorientating because you don't have a full grasp of the facts....well emotional 'facts' that is. I don't know when thanksgiving is...its a mystery to me being British,,,,but all I see this answer as saying is there really is no need for you to hurry in anything. Take you time, don't panic, no rush to decide. Hex 5 overall asks you to recuperate not fret.

What sd I do about the gossipy sister 43.2.5-55


Remain cool and calm. Be cuatious and persevere, this is not a one time thing

Hmmm you will make a decision about this in time. You have all the facts in one sense yet in another you are completely deluged by messages/information all demanding you act (hex 55). 43.2 is clear, there is no need to worry in the end. I think 43.5 shows a problem that recurs over and over. Given you already had hex 5 and 39 I think you will conme to make a decision about her in time.....but right now you can't see so clear (hex 55) and there is no need to rush (previous hex 5)

How will I feel after I go (if I did go) 29.1.6-61

This seems like don't go. That I would feel like crap, it would be dangerous and undo the good I have been doing for myself.

Good question...I have found that a useful question. Hmmm well I feel it might all be a bit too much, too many chasms (hex 29) experienced intensely (hex 61)

I'm not saying don't go....but if you do go...or even if you don't try to feel less urgency about all this. It isn't urgent, these problems will still be there tomorrow and you need a bit of time to take a slightly different view of them. There are some problems there but 5.1.2>39 is definitately not saying "go and deal with it all right now" IMO. 29>61 certainly speaks of much truth coming out but there can be such a thing as too much truth to sustain if you are emotionally wobbly.

Anyway first of all take a breath and tell yourself this is not urgent, then you might be able to think clearer

 

[rodaki]

I don't think its a case of racing around looking for help, I think what may be needed more is a pause. You need to pause to see you can't climb over the obstacle, the mountain with your current appraoch. You need to reimagine the situation.. You are viewing the situation like a great big mountain in front of you....but maybe you could go around it rather than over it...and also what really is the nature of that mountain. Apart from therapists what other allies might there be here...your daughter, your mum...39 suggests you don't isolate yourself or see yourself as the lone combatant

that's a great rendering of 39, for me . . I just looked up 39 straight and although somewhere inside I know all this stuff it still helps a lot to read them out - thanks T


I wanted to add something about the 29 to 61 reading, about 29 specifically, that while it isn't exactly the best hx to get, often it doesn't end up so scary when seen in action . . the reason for this being that it often shows territory we've gone over and over many times before and which, while it might feel like it drags us down, it's a danger we know all too well. Especially here, with the 61 added, it seems to me that the dangers could be those of an 'ingrained patterns' nature, either acquired (perhaps 'fed' to you through your mother? 61 can be about the 'food' we receive as young ones), or maybe about your own inner routes of thinking and emotion.
It's surely not the best place to be, specially during holidays - also keep in mind that 29 makes for least half of your 39 . . (which then could be showing you standing, keeping calm, in the face of adversity)


Btw, another way to see 39 is that of a reef or of a lone rock, or islet, standing in the midst of the sea . . still there are ways to make good out of it or go around it if you choose to


my two cents - good luck with anything you decide!

 

[Trojina]

Yes and I think a kind of faith is called for in 29, what is called 'holding the heart fast'.

I could be wrong Susan but I hear a sense almost of powerlessness/fear in your post. Could be that is the real issue ? I mean regardless of who said what about you if you stand secure amongst all these swirling waters can they harm you...or as Dora suggested might it be now its more a case of beliefs/patterns of feeling, you have internalised about the power of your families words about you etc etc. In its way 29>61 is quite a powerful answer IMO. Truth (61) shines out amidst the swirling murkiness (29)

 

[Grandma]

Thanks so much everyone, you all gave me really good inforamtion
Trojan you are very perceptive to say that I am afraid. My family is so dysfunctional \, they don't react in ways i think are normal to incidents. I think what happened here, in this incident i am talking about is that assertiveness in my family is deemed worng, the only thing really acceptied is passiveness and obedience to the "family" way of thinking.

Well, I think I shold ask what about that fear.

 

[ginnie]

How will I feel after I go (if I did go) 29.1.6-61

Don't go. It would be a big mistake.

 

[Grandma]

I don't have the internet at home and lately I haven't been able to get to the library so I apologize for not conversing on my own thread and especially a problem that is so worrisome to me at the moment. so I just saw your comment Ginnie. I wonder if you would elaborate on your point of view? Is the 29.1.6-61 where you get that idea? Because i wonder if the 61 means "it will be how you thought it would be"

 

[Grandma]

oh sorry, read your reply really fast and just saw the 29-61 is what you are referring to.
would you care to eleaborate? This is very stressful situation for me.

 

[Grandma]

where sd i spend Thanksgiving (US holiday last thursday in NOV)

23.2.3.6-46

strip away (unwanted) to push upwards

 

[Trojina]

where sd i spend Thanksgiving (US holiday last thursday in NOV)

23.2.3.6-46

strip away (unwanted) to push upwards

That looks like a clear answer about making a pretty complete break doesn't it. You are ready to grow beyond the limitations of the situation (hex 46) and to do this things need to be stripped away. It isn't a mistake to break with others (23.3) and the entire situation needs a whole new framework. You cannot paper over cracks in 23.6.

Its hard to say whether that 23 applies to only the immediate scenario with the family or is a longer term picture. Either way however stressful the situation people here can't decide for you. Howabout doing what you want to do ?

 

[pocossin]

What should I do?
39 unchanging

Go. It will be a struggle, but go. Your daughter wants it, and holidays are for the young. The incident that impedes you was four months ago. Possibly your mother and sister no longer remember what was said, and your tale-bearing sister did you no favor by telling you. Whatever was said wasn't said to you. If during the holiday you do not bring the incident up, who will? Go and give thanks for incidents past. Don't make the child suffer for the faults of adults.

 

[ginnie]

Hi Susan,
Elaborating on 29.1: "Abyss upon abyss. In one of them, he tumbles into a cranny -- misfortune! Commentary: Namely the misfortune of getting lost upon the way."

About 29.6: "Bound with black ropes and imprisoned amidst thorns, for three years he fails to obtain what he seeks. Commentary: The line indicates that we lose our way and suffer misfortune for three years."

If there is anything good and encouraging in either of these two lines, I don't see it. In the first line you fall into a pit within an abyss. In the second line you get all entangled and imprisoned for a set period of time.

 

[rodaki]

aah, Susan, your question seems to have the strange luck of inciting lots and widely varied interpretations - it can be mind-boggling
. . As today I stayed home, I was doing some reading on myths and some things that came up brought your thread to mind . . I'm just gonna go on and recount the stories and maybe they add sth to help in your decision.

So today the day is astrologically linked to an ancient mythical figure, that of Tantalus (and also to the Sphinx, which I find quite pertinent). One of the stories that contribute to the myth of Tantalus revolves around him offering an abominable feast to the company of gods, which they, in their divine awareness, refuse. The only one who falls into eating some is the goddess Demeter, and that only because she is distraught because due to her worry of her daughter . . Tantalus is punished in eternity but he also founds a line of sovereign figures that have fueled a big part of later tragedy plays.

That mythical (hence exaggerated) backdrop, thought in tandem to your situation, made me think of how safe you'd feel bringing your daughter into these old dynamics and share with her (and herself, her time and affection) a source of nutrition, ie the words, and family feelings/patterns you find potentially 'dangerous' . . Perhaps the 29 then is not just about your own emotional safety and what has been passed on to you by your sisters/mother but also what will be passed on to your daughter (implicitly and/or explicitly) . . Wondering if that makes any sense regarding your choice

 

[Trojina]

To quote myself

Good question...I have found that a useful question. Hmmm well I feel it might all be a bit too much, too many chasms (hex 29) experienced intensely (hex 61)

I'm not saying don't go....but if you do go...or even if you don't try to feel less urgency about all this. It isn't urgent, these problems will still be there tomorrow and you need a bit of time to take a slightly different view of them. There are some problems there but 5.1.2>39 is definitately not saying "go and deal with it all right now" IMO. 29>61 certainly speaks of much truth coming out but there can be such a thing as too much truth to sustain if you are emotionally wobbly.

Anyway first of all take a breath and tell yourself this is not urgent, then you might be able to think clearer

I still think the first thing to do is to ttake the pressure off yourself. When you do that things have a habit of untangling a bit in time. Time ! Ha time was the essence of the first answer 51.1.2>39....give self space and time.

It is not of crucial importance if you go this time or not is it ? If you were sick with a cold or a virus and didn't go the world wouldn't end would it ?

Seeing it in terms of a story or mythology may be helpful as suggested. It gives you a chance to get perspective on it.

My own view is all we can do here is give you our take on the readings. I do not see here any plain 'instructions' to go or not to go although I feel if you are so very stressed its you you need to take care of now not that situation. Its a cliche I know but try to be kind to yourself, do what you think is best for you. I think the 5.1.2.>39 reflects that.

 

[Grandma]

Thanks alot everyone, yeah I guess this comes down to what I think is best for myself
My family upsets me very much. The world would not end if i diddn't go, and my daughter is 28 she is not a child, really just my child. Funny her name is chloe and I think there is a link to her name and the story of Demeter that Rodaki was telling. It's true , I am upset about bringing my children into my family's dynamics , a dynamic I think is very bad for me. basically I don't want to go, I want the "idea" of going and having the meal with my family but I am afraid of "suprise" insults from them.
I think the reason the anwaers go both ways is that I am supossed to decide this for myself.....I think waht trojan says is true, its causing me too much pain. 23-46 could be go and break with letting them get to me (but I don't know if I could do this, I think that is the ideal, being storng enough that what they say can't hurt me, but I don;'t think I am in that position yet) so the other way to read 23-46 is that I break with them and don;t go and breaak with them as important to my well-being or as people to rely on fro holidays or wahtever.

 

[Grandma]

Just rereading ALL these truly GREAT and helpful and wonderful and apt comments on this thread.
Really 2 years later the advice is like a blueprint for therapy for me. So I actually going to print it out and reread all of these comments cause everyone was really correct.

I ended up going and it was fine but 2 days later my sister told my daughter that I had made things very uncomfortable by not speaking to my niece. ( something my daughter didnt even notice) no one would have noticed as dinner was uneventful and this was just more control shenanigans from them. So my daughter got to see for herself a situation where that was not the way my family said it was.
So we didnt go there again for any holidays she came to my home. And she moved from my moms to go get her masters and is doing great there, her being there kept me tethered to them.

So really very 29-61 repeated danger incidents behaviors but you know the truth and my little fish ( pieces) learned it a little (she sees them a little more clearly but is still a little hopeful about them where I am more detached at this point)
Although I must say some readings can be very long
Now I am invited to sons home for Xmas and he is still influenced against me by my family but I think I can overcome the repeated pitfalls by maintaining an inner truth.
I think anyway, never quite sure.