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Horns in hex 44, elevated nine.

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svenrus

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I asked the I if it would be OK to buy a ticket to a destination where I was to meet with some friends even if this cost would cause economic problems to me and got hex 44 with changing lines second, fourth and top leading to hex 39. In cases like this I use the Nanjing-rule and found that the reply is elevated nine which, in Shaughnessys edition is:
"Meeting its horns;
distress;
there is no trouble.
"
I have just one quistion: anyone who knows what Horns symbolize ?
 

pocossin

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I have just one question: anyone who knows what Horns symbolize?

In this suituation, horns symbolize forging ahead (advancing through opposition). Having been chased by horned beasts, I have a personal experience of what horns may symbolize. You are lowering your head and rushing headstrong into a liability. Apparently you are going into debt to pay for this ticket. 39 suggests that you will not find it so easy to pay off. You are the only person I know who uses Shaughnessy. God bless you, but I doubt Shaughnessy will keep you out of every trouble. Be realistic about this trip. Apparently you cannot afford everything you friends can afford, so why try? You can't have everything you want. On the other hand, probably you have things that they don't.
 

ginnie

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I have just one quistion: anyone who knows what Horns symbolize ?

I would think horns symbolize antipathy and also opposition and even physical clashes or threats of clashes.

I agree with Pocossin that it is not advisable to go into debt to buy the tickets. You will leave yourself with "no fish in the bag" -- and this leads to misfortune.
:)
 
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svenrus

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In this suituation, horns symbolize forging ahead (advancing through opposition). Having been chased by horned beasts, I have a personal experience of what horns may symbolize. You are lowering your head and rushing headstrong into a liability. Apparently you are going into debt to pay for this ticket. 39 suggests that you will not find it so easy to pay off. You are the only person I know who uses Shaughnessy. God bless you, but I doubt Shaughnessy will keep you out of every trouble. Be realistic about this trip. Apparently you cannot afford everything you friends can afford, so why try? You can't have everything you want. On the other hand, probably you have things that they don't.

Thank You for responsing, as this situation to me is more serious than it sounds. I've now taken my decision and hoping for a better time for this meeting.
" horns symbolize forging ahead " is a good picture telling me not to force this travelling through....
 
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svenrus

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"pocossin": sometimes I feel the advice to be found in Wilhelm/Baynes, sometimes in Alfred Huangs, sometimes in others translations... Just for this specific case Shaughnessys translation seemed most straightforward; except for the symbol Horns... (Richard Rutt got: "Locking their horns" and there seemes to be a difference between "Meeting its..." and "Locking their...").
 
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svenrus

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The Miao people.

On page 247 note 24 to ch. IV in THIS treatise [Article from http://www.biroco.com/yijing/stick.htm Note 1] it's stated that the Miaopeople from southern China still use to communicate with 'Knotted ropes' (see also Ch. II, 2. in Ta Chuan, The great treatise. p. 329 in Wilhelm/Baynes 1968 ed.).

That made me "google" for it, and I found theese remarkable site's: http://www.travelchinaguide.com/intro/nationality/miao/ and http://video.travelchinaguide.com/miao-ethnic-dance-000148.htm (Link's from march 2013)

The meaning, in hex 44 line six took another direction when seeing those videos and pictures; Horns actually meant as ritual dresses.... ?
 

ginnie

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Richard Rutt got: "Locking their horns" and there seemes to be a difference between "Meeting its..." and "Locking their..."

Well, in my experience there can be a lowering of the head or frowning, and expressions of dislike and wanting to ward off the other person. I wouldn't take the word "horns" too literally. After all, we human beings don't actually have horns on our foreheads.
:)
 

meng

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I too have have been chased, by a bull, up a tree. So I know what horns are for. If applied to humans, our mind is our greatest weapon, and so our mind becomes like that of the bull's horns. This feels to me like 44.
 

bradford

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I would start by questioning the Nanjing method that says that 44.6 was your answer.
But as to horns: Being pushy, threatening, aggressive, a butthead, is certainly suited to contexts like 34. But In 44, with its overall theme of calling for restraint, it's as likely to refer to being overly defensive or too protective.
 

rodaki

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being overly defensive or too protective.

that's been my experience of this line too: being aggressively protective, even if later it felt a bit too much (28ish). 44 to 39 for me, btw, usually suggests a very determined, willful way of solving problems - a kind of a 'bulldozer' attitude, with all the debris effects too . . .

In your case svenrus, I'd read the lines as
2nd: having some money
4th: having no money
6th: uncomfortable yet necessary (or desired) action
 

meng

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*picturing pillows on the tips of that bull's horns*

The restraint - KEEP OUT - was posted on the fence, which we crawled under to get onto the property, to fish the grassy pond.

Force and restraint of it is a theme used in other hexagrams as well, such as: 9, 26, 34, and lawd knows how many change lines throughout the book. The very nature of duality is push-pull, going and coming. It's also the most efficient, since pull requires no power, only release, as in 40.
 
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svenrus

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I remember a hexagram where it said at one line "No fish in the tank" and at another line "Fish in the tank" and actually got somehow confused. Don't remember which hexagram and the exact texture...
The Nanking rules I got information about in Richard Rutts I Ching book, and I have used those more like an experiment than being fully into why they are formed like they are; but to find one line contra more lines and those being of opposite statements.
For the horny animals there is no questions of the use of them in defence and in attack. We humans have used horns for all kind of purpuses, being powdered to medicine in china, for ritual ornamentations. I have tried to find a passage in Williams Chinese dictionary on chinese symbolism and art motifs where I once read about horns being used by ancient chinese as to demonstrate their rank in the official hierakie, but failed to find it; I guess it was in Wilhelm/Baynes I Ching edition I found an explanation for horns meaning something like the peak corner.... ? As one couldn't reach higher.
When asking for the symbolic means of Horn I surely asked for something hard to explain but maybe pointed out too how little we, including the chinese themselves, knows for sure about the symbolism used in the I Ching (?)
 
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Trojina

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I asked the I if it would be OK to buy a ticket to a destination where I was to meet with some friends even if this cost would cause economic problems to me and got hex 44 with changing lines second, fourth and top leading to hex 39. In cases like this I use the Nanjing-rule and found that the reply is elevated nine which, in Shaughnessys edition is:
"Meeting its horns;
distress;
there is no trouble.
"
I have just one quistion: anyone who knows what Horns symbolize ?

I have had several experiences of 44.6 which have kind of boiled down to exploring something thoroughly, and having explored it, rejected it. However this involved no aggression to others....the 44.6 seemed to be around the thoroughness of examination. One time I had it re looking at a flat to rent and found by talking to neighbours that actually there were vandals targeting cars in that block etc etc. If I hadn't spoken to the neighbours I would have remained unaware of the issues there so in that instance I felt the horns were almost like rather tough exploratory feelers, Ineeded to be persistent to find out.

One time I was going to a local meeting re the use of an old college....I stayed for a few hours listening, looking around..I was thinking of utilising one of the rooms there for a project. I asked for a tour, I spoke to people there.....I realised there would be no heating in winter.....and there was also barbed wire around the property and locked gates etc even though the meeting was open to all....so one needed horns just to get in in the first place. It was all very friendly with lots of laughter... so there really was no aggression in the situation but I had cast 44.6 before going. I think the 44.6 was about exploring thoroughly and then deciding against it. I actually don't think the horns in 44.6 always indicate aggression as such....but they might indicate a certain aggression of purpose or thouroughness.

Yi says using the horns in 44.6 is "not a mistake" so I think for some reason persistence is required though it may be a dead end. This line isn't always blind purposeless bullheadedness and i don't think that's the central meaning. I think it's necessary as Yi says 'no mistake' however it's not usually productive....yet still not a mistake. This line isn't like 34.3 I don't think, well it can't be as it isn't 34.3. One can get ones horns entangled in things when trying to explore, trying to get the measure of something, even dead ends need exploring sometimes.

ETA I personally have never found 44.6 to be about protecting anything but I can imagine that may sometimes come into such a reading
 
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meng

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Fwiw, for any readers, the purpose of the bull's horns were not blind aggression; they were to protect his herd of cows, on the other side of the pond.
 
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svenrus

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Fwiw, for any readers, the purpose of the bull's horns were not blind aggression; they were to protect his herd of cows, on the other side of the pond.

Basically I agree with You. Anywhere I could not find a bull mentioned. Legge, Wilhelm, Blofeld, Lynn, Rutt and Shaughnessy only got 'horns'. Belonging to a certain animal or symbolic in itself.... ?
In my search for the meaning I stumpled upon a link to an onlinebook which have no direct connexion with this matter but where it's mentioned that the horns of the rhinoceros was highly sought after in ancient china due to some effects it was said to have. [http://chinese-unicorn.com/ ch. 16 on]

Guessing, searching. Those who could have explained to us went away thousands of years ago. I guess.
 

meng

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Basically I agree with You. Anywhere I could not find a bull mentioned. Legge, Wilhelm, Blofeld, Lynn, Rutt and Shaughnessy only got 'horns'. Belonging to a certain animal or symbolic in itself.... ?
In my search for the meaning I stumpled upon a link to an onlinebook which have no direct connexion with this matter but where it's mentioned that the horns of the rhinoceros was highly sought after in ancient china due to some effects it was said to have. [http://chinese-unicorn.com/ ch. 16 on]

Guessing, searching. Those who could have explained to us went away thousands of years ago. I guess.

Interesting.

This is the first book published in the English language to explore the origin and significance of the mythic Chinese unicorn and its influence on later unicorn myths. It proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the Chinese unicorn was not the qilin, but a one-horned female goat-like beast called the zhi. It also examines the real animals upon which the myth was based. Its most significant finding, however, is that the unicorn zhi was the ultimate symbol of justice under the law in ancient China. Making judicious use of all available evidence, historical, epigraphical, archeological, art historical and scientific, this book explains how the myth of the unicorn began in China then gradually spread into other parts of Asia and Europe. The myth of the unicorn has become universal in scope because it embodies the longing for ideal justice. However, images of unicorns are anything but universal, because as a mythic beast, it is capable of endless transformations. Thus, at different times and in different places, images of unicorns have varied widely. It is for this reason that the true origin and significance of the mythic unicorn in ancient China has for so long been obscured.

Interesting, this link with the sense of justice, because 44's sense of aggression is often linked to a sense of doing justice, and entitlements especially.

It was once also discussed here that the horn might be a reference to a small horn, worn around the neck, in either red or solid gold, to ward off the "evil eye". Again, I don't think it was literally so originally, but if the horseshoe fits...

Even if these aren't literal meanings, their symbolism express protection, in some cases magic power, and the sense of aggression. If my emotions were to be analyzed during a time of 44, I think those would be part of my inner drive.

Since mood and temperament are so much involved, I've associated it with Wind (eldest daughter) not getting her way with Heaven (her father), and coming out on her own, with a 'tude, to meet him, face to face. That 'tude is what I associate with horns, in 44. Luckily the Father loves his First Daughter, and he eventually named the cyclic incident, PMS.

Regarding my bull chasing incident, I didn't mean to suggest that 44.6 horns were referring to the bull, only that the bull's horns and the aggressiveness of the bull are easy to associate with 44.6, for me. It's how I feel inside when I'm in a time of 44.6. She bears no great blame, but likely experiences some humiliation before it's over.
 

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