How have you reacted when a reading seems to have been completely wrong?

[liquidity]

For example -- when it says "good fortune" about an outcome and the event turns out to have been really, really bad fortune, or vice-versa?

Does it shake your faith in Yi? Or do you feel that you should be looking at the reading differently? Or what?

 

[Trojina]

With time you will often find the meaning becomes clear. Most people most of the time, myself included, tend to think answers are just applying to the one tiny little slice of their life they present when they consult - but it's much much bigger than that and you can only see how much bigger with hindsight.


So when I get a reading that appears wrong I just keep it with me for longer. I don't mind when readings look to be wrong because I don't expect to understand all readings. I suspect I settle with a meaning quite quickly after casting. A reading that appears wrong is quite refreshing because there is no settling and you have to carry it around a lot longer.


It can also be that you simply misunderstood. It's good anyway to have any faith shaken with Yi because it is not obliged to answer to answer all and everything we put to it and so many answers give the question and the responsibility for the choice back to us. Yi dependence isn't a good thing and it's always worth thinking about what you would do if you didn't have Yi at all before consulting.


I think knowing what you would have done left to your own devices, no oracle involved, is an important thing to think about before casting. For one thing it sharpens up the question. If people ask 'what shall I do about X ?' when in real life there is only 2 possible options any way then having a wide open question as if there were actually more than 2 options for X can be confusing and cause a lot of floundering. I think I have wandered a bit from your question.....

 

[moss elk]

Hi liquidity,

I do not know of a possible reading that says only, "good fortune"

It would be an oversimplification to run blindly forward thinking, "it said good fortune", because here is always more to the message. Good fortune if you follow the advice...etc



What would I do if this happened to me?
I would slow my roll, and consider more before leaping.

 

[Freedda]

A few thoughts:

I am not entirely convinced that the Yi gives predictions about future outcomes, at least not in my experience. It could instead be giving you advice about how to achieve the best possible outcome (or at least to avoid the most harmful); so, as Moss Elk said, it's could be more about following the advice being offered and not about a prediction.

I sometimes feel that the quality of one's attention during a casting has a lot to do with the quality of the reading. Could it be that whoever was tossing the coins (or whatever) was not very focused, or were not very clear about what they were asking? Sort of a GIGO sort of thing.

As Trojina points out, we often don't know the outcome or know if the Yi's advice is good or bad, or accurate or not until some point after we've said, 'gee, the Yi just didn't get it right that time.' Consider a relationship that fails to materialize, but you only find out much later that the person you so wanted to be with is dishonest or mean and crazy. Was the Yi so wrong in saying that you had 'good fortune' in that instance?

Finally, could it be that either the Yi is just plain wrong sometimes, or that we don't have what it takes to understand the reading?

Best, David.

 

[diamanda]

For example -- when it says "good fortune" about an outcome and the event turns out to have been really, really bad fortune, or vice-versa?
Does it shake your faith in Yi? Or do you feel that you should be looking at the reading differently? Or what?

A very long time ago, when I didn't have enough experience with the I Ching, yes it totally shook my faith. I actually put the Wilhelm book in the rubbish bin a couple of times (but bought it again every time, and bought more books too and learned more).

When a line says good fortune and the event turns out badly, it could be because:

• The querent has asked the same, or similar, question way too many times and results are blurred.
• The querent is not paying close attention to the phrasing of the question.
• The querent doesn't have enough experience and/or thinks in a more romantic way about the commentaries.
• The line says good fortune, but the resulting hexagram is bad for the situation. As an example, if you get 19.2 > 24 when asking about forming a serious relationship, 24 is bad if you want a serious relationship as it's too easy-going.

 

[Gmulii]

Save it somewhere. Look back at it after a year or so...
Very likely by then it would make a lot of sense. If not can always ask, how would someone else read it. It usually turns out it was related to a rule that was missing... So often it won't even need a year, as soon as we stumble upon a new rule we can remember the example and check it again. It often would fit after.


When working with the text on the lines, I guess its more or less same principle, although less about rules and more about the text itself and our understanding of it.
If we see it doesn't reflect the situation the problem may be in the translation(as there are a lot of difference between different translations sometimes).

 

[liquidity]

• The line says good fortune, but the resulting hexagram is bad for the situation. As an example, if you get 19.2 > 24 when asking about forming a serious relationship, 24 is bad if you want a serious relationship as it's too easy-going.

Interesting. And how did you get that idea (about 24)... from your experience, or is there a particular system or book that holds that to be true?

 

[liquidity]

It usually turns out it was related to a rule that was missing... So often it won't even need a year, as soon as we stumble upon a new rule we can remember the example and check it again. It often would fit after.

What do you mean by a rule that was missing? Can you give an example, please?

 

[Gmulii]

I'm mostly using Liu Yao and Mei Hua. But I think the general principles are the same, we try to find the meaning in what we read. In Liu Yao we look at the Hexagram as a situation and we follow different influences in them.

Example for missing rule... I did know it back then, just didn't figure out it will apply, as it wasn't the usual circumstances.

My brother had a exam he had to take in a few days time. Our mother asked me to see what will happen.

Question was "Will my brother take the exam" and I asked for her.
I said he won't take it.
He took it without any problems.

In the next few months I was wondering what I missed. I knew the events and was aware there is something big missing here, but had no idea what.

So question: "Will my brother take the exam."
Date: 3 July 2017.
Hexagram:

We look at the relations on the lines and try to say how will that show up in the situation. Looking for Images, the more Images we get of the same outcome the more sure we can be of it.


My way of thinking back then, was that in this case my brother will be on sibling line. He is my brother, I'm asking, that should be the relation that would show up on that line.
Sibling line is clashed by the day.
Looking at the month of asking, sibling line is very, very weak, as it is Metal(Autumn) in a Summer months. Very weak clashed line means line is broken.
No way he can take the exam. Problems with authority there(as he is weak in the Fire month and Fire represent authority). Also may talk too much, as the fire bird animal on the line suggest that.

Yet, he did take it..

Looking at the Trigram relation we have very strong trigram for my brother being supported by the environment. Here, there is good reason to think the Lines reading may be wrong.

One day in another topic in another forum someone mentioned old rule that I knew, but forgot. It was along the lines of the idea that if someone else asks us to ask in their place, then all relations in the hexagram have to be rearranged for them. Rechecked old examples and sure enough this one seem to fit, perfectly.
So in this situation even though my brother would be on sibling line if I was asking, in this case I asked for my mother, in that situation my brother is on a child line, as he is her son.

And here everything fits. Child line is the first line, it is moving. It is weak initially, Zi is clashed by the Month(middle of winter with middle of summer).
However after the move, even though it is something called "return to control" it becomes very strong supported by the Officer in the Season of asking.

Officer and its relation to the line representing what we ask for is what we look for when taking exams, job interviews and stuff like that. It is supporting my brothers line in this case, so he will take it.

So what was the missing rule... When I ask for my mother, I shouldn't look for my brother on sibling line, in that specific situation on sibling line will be my mothers brother.
This may be obvious to some, however in most questions when we ask for someone else, the other person doesn't have any relation to us, so in this case it was challenging to figure it out, right away.


When working with the translation text that may not work in exactly the same way as the message is often more symbolic. However the idea is still the same in my humble opinion. We see how we understand the situation described and if we mess up the reading, then the influences and events were different then what we understood of the text, more often then not.

In some other day on some other question we may get the influences there, and then we can reread old examples and figure out why it showed up in that way. Each Hexagram and changing line are describing a type of change. If we get how that works we can go back and apply it to any example that are going through the same change. : )

 

[diamanda]

Interesting. And how did you get that idea (about 24)... from your experience, or is there a particular system or book that holds that to be true?

a) From the original text, which says coming and going without blame, also that 'friends' come.
b) From experience, where the text played out as easy-come easy-go, in a friendly manner.

 

[Hujambo]

It happens to me all the time and it shakes my faith. It only works 100% when I already knew the answers.

OTOH, I would never trade that which I am learning by using the trigrams/hexagrams etc to describe the patterns of change in my life. I frequently find myself quoting lines or envisioning hexagrams from the IChing to myself in response to events or observations. Not from memorising, from recognising the patterns. I am not yet at the stage where I can interpret as a prescription, only as a map of the terrain.

So I say, I am learning in a different direction than divination or prediction, even though it is scarily accurate at times and completely befuddling at others. I have the sense of aligning myself to the most useful configuration over the course of readings. Perhaps waiting for the smallest change possible to the obvious and natural, or the most efficient change, etc. ie. where do I feel unbalanced, lost, obstinate, etc. If I look from over here, can I work with those elements or do I have to go over there and make 55 turns before I am facing a good direction with all of myself coming along for the ride? Why am I asking questions?

I have no business having faith in the IChing, it is not required. I am expecting me to keep changing in response, so the faith that gets shaken when a reading seems wrong, is faith in myself.