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How I Strayed off the Path

joang

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Before resuming the discussion about whether or not one CAN stray off the Path, I decided to write this down for three reasons:
1. To clarify with specificity, rather than generalization.
2. To end speculation about the nature of my great mistake.
3. To (possibly) serve as a warning to others.

I should begin by describing what my relationship with the I Ching was like in the early years, but it is difficult to find the words. It was magical, astounding, instructive, enlightening, encouraging, humorous, and much more.

Then one day, something happened to change all that. Three times that day, I experienced long waits in waiting rooms. As I sat and waited in the third one, I mused, ?waiting, waiting, waiting... five, five, five.? I thought no more about it until that evening when the daily lottery number was announced: 555. Wow! I thought, ?it? wants me to win! The 555 was fate, which I had no control over, but how I interpreted that event, and how I acted upon it thereafter was my own doing, and my undoing.

I began to look for clues everywhere I went, believing that if ?it? had tried to help me once, ?it? would do so again; therefore, all I had to do was be aware and alert so that I could act upon them immediately. As you can imagine, my head was soon swimming in numbers. Numbers are everywhere. I spent my days deciding what numbers to play; and when they didn?t come out, I spent my nights trying to figure out what clues I had missed, and what I could do to get it right next time.

I did not ask the Oracle to give me winning lottery numbers (at least not until almost the end of that stage), because I knew that would be inappropriate and irreverent. What I did was worse. I would ask questions about other matters, and then I would go out and play the numbers of the hexagrams. It very quickly got to the point where I was thinking more about the numbers than about the message. Try as I might, I just could not empty my mind of numbers in order to be receptive to what the Oracle was trying to tell me. Thoughts of numbers kept pushing their way in, contaminating the consultation. It was a difficult struggle indeed, and it went on for years.

Finally, I did manage to banish the demon. I stopped thinking about numbers, stopped playing the lottery, even stopped caring or looking to see what numbers came out. But unfortunately, the damage was done. My communications with the Oracle were not the same as they once were. The magic was gone. Or so it felt. My consultations slowed to a trickle, sometimes as few as once or twice a year, when some particularly vital issue arose. The Oracle answered those questions. It did not chase me away, or punish me by not answering. Rather, I think perhaps I was punishing myself by staying away so long. I don?t know. I really can?t explain it.

Anyway, that is all behind me. I am back and I am a little bit wiser now. Yes Martin, I did learn something from that experience. I learned firsthand what the I Ching means when it says:

?The inferior thing seems so harmless and inviting that a man delights in it; it looks
so small and weak that he imagines he may dally with it and come to no harm.
The inferior man rises only because the superior man does not regard him as dangerous and so lends him power. If he were resisted from the first, he could never gain influence.?

Angelfish (Joan)
 

louise

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Hi Angelfish, my personal reaction to your story is that you are being way way too hard on yourself
and you feel alot of guilt - but truly I don't think you really did anything 'wrong'.

Sounds like when you got obsessed by the numbers thing - thats what it was, an obsession. We can all be a little neurotic at times, and I don't mean that in an offensive way - at times when I've been stressed in my life I've done neurotic things like checking the door is locked, not once but 5 times before going to bed ! People do get 'hooked' onto all sorts of things and I think its a sign that their mind is quite troubled at that time - and they sublimate that distress by maybe carrying out all sorts of rituals. Maybe at the time of the numbers obsession you were quite worried inside and didn't acknowledge how bad you felt to yourself - the numbers almost being a distraction.

What I see in your post is that you yourself feel guilty and 'punished' by losing the 'magic' of the oracle. My perception is that this is with you - you believe you did wrong. I can't see you did anything wrong - just prone to human daftness like everyone else on the planet - and life can be hard, so we shouldn't be too hard on ourselves.

I don't think you ever went off the PATH - thats just my perception of your post, maybe I'm way off, but thats how it seems to me.
 

louise

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So you got addicted (at least it wasn't drugs)..maybe its part of your path to experience addiction. Perhaps rather than beat yourself up over it, give yourself a little compassion - ask yourself how you got to that point, what was your mind really looking for ? It was looking for happiness as all minds do, just looking in the wrong place thats all- no sin, no crime, just part of being human...
 

davidl

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Hi Joan,

When I first became aware of my spirit master through the I Ching some 10 years into my relationship with the Yi, I would ask 'testing' type questions to see if he was 'real'. Sometimes I would ask about minor future events. The accuracy was incredible. Any way one day in a state of naughtiness I asked if we should go to the casino and play roulette. He agreed and soon I had my chips in my hand standing over the table. The first no. was given to me (no. 33) , I placed my bet, the no. that came up was 32. Next bet 7. The no. came up 6. Next bet no. 16, the no. came up 15. And so on. We never went back to the casino, I never asked those type of questions again.
 

martin

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Dear Angelfish,

You are a hard nut to crack!
I would say that you have strayed ... a little bit to the left side of your Path.
But that was probably part of your curriculum. You needed that kind of experience. No?

Crack?

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Martin
 

lenardthefast

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Gee, David, seems to me you missed out on a very valuable lesson. Your Master was simply teaching you arithmetic. Like on the third time when he said 16 it was obvious from the first two times that you were supposed to place the bet on the number 'preceding' the given one. You don't happen to have his address and phone number available, do you?

Namaste,
Leonard
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joang

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Wow! What great responses, you guys!

Louise, you struck a chord when you suggested, "ask yourself how you got to that point, what was your mind really looking for ?

Hope. That's what my heart was looking for. For a few hours a day, winning a jackpot was something to hope for. Obviously, I was going through a depression.
 

joang

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David, at least you caught on quicker than I did. I used to get the numbers in reverse, or 2 right out of a four digit number, and so forth, but that just encouraged me to keep trying. heh heh.
 

joang

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Martin, I still feel I paid far too high a price for that lesson. And I don't mean the money.
 

joang

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Leonard, if David had bet one number lower, I bet [oops, there I go again] the Master would have switched to one number higher.
 

joang

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Postscript. I am not beating myself up anymore. It is behind me now. I have forgiven myself, and I felt forgiven when I read the Image in Deliverance: "Thus the superior man [Yi] pardons mistakes and forgives misdeeds"
 

joang

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Hilary, thanks for suggesting I look deeper into the meaning of #29. I realized there had indeed been a "Repitition of danger." I got hooked on hope a second time; this time involving investments. It wasn't as bad as the lottery obsession, but it did take up far too much of my time. I ended that pre-occupation just before I consulted the Oracle.
 

hilary

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Thank heaven I went through my prize draws and competitions phase before I met the Yi. I spent quite enough hours crafting irresistible tie-breakers, scheduling the perfect timing of entries and cutting interesting textures into the edges of postcards. (OK, OK, so I was at a low ebb!!
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) I reacted to the words 'win' or 'prize' on leaflets as if to my own name. Imagine what kinds of mess I could have got into if I'd combined that with divination... the mind boggles...

Thanks, Joan, for 'coming out' first!
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mathman

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martin, as a maths student I'm interested in the statistics of your roulette experience. Can you remember how many consecutive numbers came up 'one out'?

Ricky x
 
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dharma

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Here's part of an article that I thought fitting to the topic of discussion here. The link to the whole article is included at the end.
<CENTER>~*^*~*^*~*^*~*^*~*^*~*^*~*^*~*^*~</CENTER>

The Importance of a Path
by Gregory Ellison

...It is said that all paths lead to the same mountain top. This may be true, but no path will lead anywhere unless it is followed. Which spiritual path you choose to follow is less important than that you have a path and that you follow it.

Jumping from path to path in search of the the latest, greatest spiritual revelation or the fanciest meditation technique is the biggest ?trap? to keep us firmly locked into a limited state of awareness.

Whether you choose to follow a traditional spiritual path such as religious contemplation, meditation on astrology or Kabbalah, a body/mind discipline like T'ai Chi or yoga or your own eclectic blend of spiritual practices that resonate with your own unique perspective, every viable path has certain elements in common. These include:

An integrative model - a way to conceive of humanity as an expression of One. Although it is important to remember that a model is a set of concepts about reality rather than the ?Truth? in itself, we must have a consistent way of thinking about transcendence in order to aim for it.

A meditative component - a part of the practice specifically devoted to withdrawing attention from the ?external? world and focusing it inwardly It is only through such internal exploration that we can directly experience ourselves as expressions of a greater whole.

An ethical ideal - here I am going to run the risk of sounding dogmatic by asserting that there is only one valid ethical ideal on which to build a spiritual foundation. Although known by different names in different traditions, it is most commonly known as the Golden Rule: do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

A ?critical distance? from worldly life - it is not necessary to retire from the world in a cave or a monastery; the world is our teacher. But it is necessary to develop the ability to stand back from our immersion in the push and pull of physical life enough to objectively observe ourselves as we go about our daily business. Without this critical distance we remain enmeshed in a stimulus-response relation to the material world, believing ourselves to be acting and choosing freely but actually ?programmed? by conditioned reflexes we have learned from our environment and upbringing. This is a subtle form of waking sleep or illusion (?maya?) to which we are ALL subject in the physical world. Objectively observing ourselves in relation to the world is an essential step in transcending it.

Beyond these few common elements, your own intuition and interests are the best guides to a spiritual path that is right for you, and that is the most important thing. As Carlos Castaneda said, you must find a path with heart. If the path does not have heart, it is useless.

(continues)


http://consciousevolution.com/metamorphosis/0308/practicing0308.htm
 

martin

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Hi mathematical man
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,

You asked me but I didn't play roulette, it was Davidl ...
Your question is interesting, though, because probabilities are often misleading. For example, calculation may reveal that an event that seems to be highly improbable to common sense reasoning is in fact not that improbable at all.

Martin
 

joang

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Dharma, thank you for the Gregory Ellison link. What he says in the article has a familiar ring to me, as I too have read Casteneda's books, in which "a path with heart" is often discussed. It is quite likely that my use of the term "the path" in this thread was colored by that association, even though I had almost forgotten about it. How perceptive of you to have intuited the Castaneda connection.
 
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dharma

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Joan,

Having read the whole of Castaneda's series myself, I too, no doubt make unconscious associations to Carlos' meaningful concept "a path with a heart". That the article happened to make mention of him was for me a refreshing 'coincidence'
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.

Nice to run into yet another person who has acquainted themselves with the teachings of don Juan and has vicariously journeyed along one man's most unusual chosen "path" (hmmm... or did it choose him??) too. His exotic experiences were, as seen through my mind's eye, incredibly mind-expanding trips
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...and the possibilities, endlessly mind-boggling!

Dharma
 

joang

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Dharma,
I think the way it all began leaves no doubt that the path (or the Spirit) chose Carlos; but there were several times along the way when he almost gave it up. Each time, he chose to continue. So it's also true to say that he chose the path, imo.

I loved don Juan Matus. I have heard it rumored that he was not real, that he never existed, but I find that hard to believe. I prefer to think that he was impeccably thorough in erasing his history.

I attended some of Castaneda's Tensegrity lectures at UCLA. He certainly spoke of DJ then as if he were a real person. But during one of the question and answer sessions, after being asked to explain the meaning of this or that passage in the books, he shocked us all by saying, "Those are old books. What don Juan said is irrelevant now, except for his wisdom and sobriety... The door is closed... I am as new to the new era as all of you are... the human race is coming to an end... it's up to the women to evolve or we're finished." [Source: my handwritten notes.]

He spoke a lot about the need for us to evolve, and that what was needed to bring this about was a "critical mass" of practitioners. That theme also is echoed in the Gregory Ellison article you posted the link to. [Pardon my dangling participle. :)]
 
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dharma

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Hi Joan,

Fictious or not, he had an undeniable impact on everyone who's read the books. The need to cast an air of unreality about him reveals perhaps the over-riding fear of moving beyond the limitations of the familiar world that our assemblage-point focuses on. For those who believe, I think it may be because his character essence has an undeniable realism that teaches and reaches the reader with the certainty of someone very much alive and present. Despite the tremendous wisdom imparted though, I personally derived the most value from his constant and unfailing sobriety than from any of his teachings per se. Attaining and maintaining similar levels of detachment for myself has been a great life lesson and he was the original role model.

Sincere thanks for sharing your ideas and your encounter with Carlos Castaneda himself.
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Dharma
 

joang

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Dharma,
I was going to allow the Castaneda subject to end there, but that would leave the door open to possible misconceptions.

I did not attend any more of his seminars after that one. It was because of his books that I flew 3000 miles to see and hear him speak in person. The experience turned out to be nothing like what I hoped it would be. I neither saw nor felt any ?magical? prowess emanating from him or his female warriors. The Carlos who spoke to us didn?t even sound to me like the Carlos who wrote those astounding fascinating books. I was stunned when he said, ?The books are irrelevant now.? Perhaps he said that because he was annoyed that the audience?s questions were focused more on the books than on Tensegrity, which was what he brought us there to promote.

I was not that interested in Tensegrity. If the books were irrelevant, there was no good reason for me to be there. I dropped that path completely soon afterward ? ? not that I was ever really on it completely. There were parts of Don Juan?s teachings that didn?t sit well with me and I could not accept, particularly the ruthlessness and severing all ties with one?s past, including family. That was not a path I wanted to follow. The Ching is. I feel at home here. It?s where I belong.

Nevertheless, there are many parts of Don Juan?s teachings that I consider precious gems of wisdom that I carry with me to this day, the most important of which is, the power of ?Intent?.
 
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dharma

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Joan,

Interested in reading the book review for "The Active Side of Infinity"?

http://www.doyletics.com/arj/activesi.htm

The writer talks about his understanding of 'intent' as well as the reasons behind the necessity for severing ties with one's past.

As far as the 'ruthlessness' issue goes, I guess it all depends on what you believe that that means and how it affects your personal sense of security to behave in this way when appropriate.

It is my experience that there are times and circumstances that require us to cut through to the gist of the matter in an abrupt way, to avoid pandering and molly-coddling (whether ourselves or others) that enable a given situation to continue on when the time has come to cut to the chase.

No doubt, the path of don Juan Matus in its totality is a hard one to follow but/and certainly one with a heart, if it is your calling. Otherwise, we take what we need and continue along the path that feels right for us.

Dharma
 

lenardthefast

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This is just an aside regarding the Castenada/Don Juan Mateus discussion.

I read all the books in the series and was quite fascinated with the concepts therein. I believe it was in the third or fourth book (forgive me for not having the title(s) handy as my memory isn't what it was), but anyway, I DO remember that it was in the book that related 'don Juan's' visit to Los Angeles. There is a passage in that book that firmly convinced me from that time forward that 'don Juan' was a construct solely of Castenada's imagination. The exact details are admittedly fuzzy, but in a supposed conversation between the two, 'don Juan' made statements about Los Angeles and the city environs where his comments were totally out of character to his own admitted experience of that location. The comments WERE totally 'in character' for Castenada. This impression was so strong, that from that moment on, I never considered 'him' to be a 'real' person, but merely the spokesman for Castenada's philosophy.

This realization did not impinge whatsoever on my enjoyment of the series, however, it did remove, for me anyway, the validating component that the don Juan character had contributed up to that point.

Should anyone (Dharma, Angelfish?), care to jog my rusty memory as to the title of the book, (the one where 'he' travels to LA), I would be glad to reread it and quote the exact circumstances to which I am referring. I would love to hear your comments concerning my observation, once I can quote it in it's entirety.
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Namaste,
Leonard
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malka

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I've never read any of Carlos Castanedda's books, but I did hear him speak at a conference about five years ago. I must say, I found him very sexy (for what that's worth!) I guess my brain is in the gutter today. Break-up blues. ;)
 
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dharma

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Hi Malka,

You know, now that you mention it, I don't think I've ever actually seen a picture of Carlos... I haven't a clue WHat he looks like at all. He tended to describe himself in unflattering ways throughout the books and so it never occured to me to consider him attractive.

Thanks for providing me with a more desireable point-of-view of Mr Castaneda. And for what it's worth, a broken heart doesn't put you in the gutter - you merely changed ->>direction... and fortunately, on THIS path you're on, men are STill (woohoo!) sexy!! ...all magic flourishes where hope springs eternal...

Dharma
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dharma

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Hi Leonard,

I will go through the books when I have a chance and let you know, unless Joan knows off-hand. I would like to re-read this passage you are refering to and see if it "strikes" me differently after all these years because I know it didn't when I originally read it.

Dharma
 
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dharma

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Sorry Leonard, I cannot figure out which book it is you're talking about. It's probably the one book that I don't actually own. Perhaps Joan will know. In the meantime here is a short little bio (for those who are not familiar with C.C.) and the link to the website where I found it. Leonard, maybe something on this site will help trigger your memory.

"Sustained Action" is devoted to analysis and discussion of evidence and controversy about Carlos Castañeda http://www.sustainedaction.org

.....

In 1960, Carlos Castañeda met the Yaqui shaman Don Juan Matus, and learning from him, he wrote the partly autobiographical works for which he is known.

Notable works include:

The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge (1968)
A Separate Reality (1971)
Journey to Ixtlan (1972)
Tales of Power (1975)
The Second Ring of Power (1977)
The Eagle's Gift (1981)
The Fire from Within (1984)
The Power of Silence (1987)
The Art of Dreaming (1993)
Magical Passes (1999)
The Active Side of Infinity (1999)
The Wheel of Time (2000)

Although they started out with the premise of anthropology, his works became a mixture of story, religion and philosophy. His works contain descriptions of paranormal experiences, several psychological techniques (such as neurolinguistic programming), Toltec magic rituals, shamanism and experiences with psychoactive drugs (e.g. peyote).

Since Castaneda?s books first appeared, many critics have doubted their authenticity. Books and articles have been published over the years attacking Castaneda?s claims from a variety of standpoints (e.g., passages that have remarkable similarities to descriptions by other anthropologists; descriptions of flora and fauna unlikely to be found in the Sonoran desert; the unlikelihood that Castaneda?s purported teacher, a relatively unschooled Yaqui shaman, would be conversant with sophisticated philosophies that sound remarkably similar to those of Nietzsche and Gurdjieff, among others; and basic internal inconsistencies in dates and events among the books).

Such criticism became so vociferous by the late seventies and early eighties, and Castaneda so steadfastly avoided responding to his various critics, that the climate was ripe for what was to become a pervasive myth about Castaneda: that he himself had recanted the extraordinary tale described in the books. In fact, Castaneda never admitted during his lifetime that the books were anything but his best attempt to describe his training by don Juan and his party to learn to perceive other worlds and "energy, as it flows in the universe."

Another way to read the books is as a sort of game, almost like a detective novel. Some of the material is likely to be true, some is likely to be fictional, and some of the events described probably appeared to be real at the time, but were actually hallucinations; it is up to the reader to decide which is which.
 

joang

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Dharma,
thank you for the link. After reading that review, of course I will now have to read the book, The Active Side of Infinity. The last Castaneda book I read was The Art of Dreaming.

As for ruthlessness, I do believe one has to be ruthless with oneself in order to eliminate the obstacles of self-importance and self-pity. I don't have any problem with that kind of ruthlessness, as I think you can tell from my first post on this thread. :)
 

joang

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Leonard, I?m sorry but I don?t remember in which book the trip to L A took place. I have often wished someone would transcribe the books into electronic form and put them on a set of CDs, which would make it easy for us to quickly search and find any particular passage we were looking for. I have done that in fact with book one of the Wilhelm/Baines version of the I Ching.

I am not sure that I would be so quick to assume that such an apparent contradiction proves that Don Juan was a figment of Castaneda?s imagination. Don Juan did not always tell Carlos the truth; he had a Nagual?s reason for deceiving him at times.

Namaste. I used to know what that meant. I considered it a lovely expression. Tell me again please?
 

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