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How I would draw my personal leader?

Albatross

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A inquiry that bother me in the last weeks, it is what is the way like I perceive the type of leadership. What is the perfect leader to me. I asked the Yi because I think that I have some kind of bias about this subject. The bias is that I chose some type of leader because I want to please other people, because I want to satisfy the images that other have about me when I select the "right" type of leader.

The answer

47.3.4.5 to 46

My explanation

I assume that with the line 3 the Yi put in evidence my bias. My fear take me to a place where I chose a leader that in reality it did not appeal to me.

Line 4.5 told me about my preconception, my expectancies in my own culture and formation; how I am incapable to throw away that predispositions.

and 46 maybe it is about to put action in my own decision put in away my fear and desire of please to reach a really figure that help me grow.
 
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Freedda

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Hello Allegorical_being,

I think there may be a bit 'lost in translation' here for me (no blame), so I wonder, are you asking about your personal leadership style - how you would be a leader? OR, are you asking about what kind of leader you'd like to have if you had the choice? OR, something else?

Best, D.
 

Albatross

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Hello Freedda,

My question is about "what kind of leader you'd like to have if you had the choice?"
Why is that? I was thinking, for social reason or group pression, or the own predisposition bias we think that like some time of leadership but in reality it is possible that we love totally different type. For example, when someone asked me about my ideal leader and I answered with the figure of a open and dedicated person, liberal, etc. but in your insight you love a tyrannical leader, with hard command.
The point of my question is about maybe I am not real honest about my expectancies in the leadership in general.
thanks for the insights.
 
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Trojina

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I don't understand that ? What do you mean by 'leader' ? Do you mean your boss at work ?
 

moss elk

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If you are going to ask us to help you with your homework, at least tell us what the school or program is.
 

Trojina

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Hello Freedda,

My question is about "what kind of leader you'd like to have if you had the choice?"

thanks for the insights.

Well it depends what it's a leader of ? A gym class or a hike or a Phd or your chess group ? This doesn't make sense - a leader of what ?

I haven't just got 'a leader', no one has. One has different leaders in different situations. Do you mean teacher or boss or what ?
 

Albatross

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If you are going to ask us to help you with your homework, at least tell us what the school or program is.

Sorry? Did I offend you in some way with my post? It is not homework. I asked to Yi a question, only that.
 

Albatross

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Well it depends what it's a leader of ? A gym class or a hike or a Phd or your chess group ? This doesn't make sense - a leader of what ?

I haven't just got 'a leader', no one has. One has different leaders in different situations. Do you mean teacher or boss or what ?
Hello, what I mean by leader it is like a utopic leader, the way the features that you want to found in a person that you think they are the features of a true leader. For example, Gandhi or so. What is the person that you think '¡wow! I want to be lead by this person?

Thanks.
 

Trojina

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Oooh don't understand the concept I'm afraid. I have never wanted anyone as a leader except in certain capacities I use them for. I would never look up to anyone as a leader. It's very hard to understand what you are asking. I don't know if you are asking about your own leadership skills or if this is, as you seem to suggest about an imaginary world leader ? No idea.

I have never in my entire life had the thought 'wow I want to be led by this person, I can't even imagine the mindset of someone who would think that way. Why would you believe in leaders ? It seems a very remote sort of question.
 

moss elk

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Sorry? Did I offend you in some way with my post? It is not homework. I asked to Yi a question, only that.

Oh, the question sounds like an exercise you read in a book or were given by someone in some kind of school/philosphy or program.
Maybe I am mistaken.
 
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Freedda

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So, is your question something like ....

'If I could chose a leader for my country/world what qualities would that person have?'
(And is it a perfect/utopian country/world, or as it is now?)

D.
 

Albatross

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Trojina said:
I have never in my entire life had the thought 'wow I want to be led by this person,

Hello,
It is not like the leader itself. It is because the ideals are seeing in some person, the ideals that this person represents are appelling like Ghandi or Mandela, the ideals that they represents say something to the people.
 
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Albatross

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So, is your question something like ....

'If I could chose a leader for my country/world what qualities would that person have?'
(And is it a perfect/utopian country/world, or as it is now?)

D.

Yes, it something. However, no matter the world or country this person represents a way of life that is valuable to live.
 

rosada

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I think English is not Allegorical's first language. I think the term he is looking for is Role Model, as in someone you try to emulate, be like, be inspired by.

If that is what Al is asking then I think 47.3.4.5 - 46 is advising..

47.
You are in a situation where you are feeling confined maybe even oppressed. Or maybe you are just bored with yourself . Whatever, you are wanting to take your life up a notch. You feel you have gone as far as you can go on your own so now you seek those who can help and advise you. You are wanting to recognize and manifest your real purpose.

47.3
You are in a state of transition. Don't be afraid to act on your own.
47.4
You probably already have an idea of what you should be doing, you see worthwhile causes that you feel "somebody" should support, and now you are starting to recognize that you are that somebody.
47.5
You'd think other people would be eager to do better and be better too but nope, not everyone sees things the way you do. Do not be concerned about those who insult you and ridicule your ideas. Follow your highest ideals and you will recognize things are already improving.

In short, I think you are being advised to follow your own ideas and therefore to look for a role model who wasn't afraid to act on their own to make improvements. When you start to do this you will find yourself meeting with others who are similarly self motivated.

46.
Small efforts will result in big results.

I think Mother Teresa is a good role model of someone who saw what needed doing and with no role model other than her own sense that something should be done went out into the world and - despite being ridiculed and nearly ex-communicated - did it.
 
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Trojina

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If that is what Al is asking then I think 47.3.4.5 - 46 is advising..

Beware if you give yourself a long name like allegorical_being it will get shortened. I knew you would end up as 'Al'.

I can't see why anyone would pick a leader to be a role model, that would be useless. I may have respect for Gandhi for example but I don't want him to be my role model, wouldn't make sense would it given he's got a different task in life.

My advice is never have role models be who you are - if you meant 'role model' which isn't clear.

There is no perfect leader.

Why should famous people be role models, you don't even know them. They may have all these ideals but treat their aged father like crap. If you have to have role models make it someone in your own world not famous people as you never know what they're up to. Just because someone's famous for being altruistic or whatever doesn't make them a role model.


I think your answer says perhaps you could rise above (46) limited versions of what ideal people are like. Those lines in 47 are all to do with aspects of having to relate to an authority that has none really and line 4 shows a laborious effort that could be far simpler.

As a matter of interest why are you asking this ?
 
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Freedda

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Allegorical, Rosada poses a good question: are you looking for a leader - as in someone to lead a nation or a movement, or are you looking for a role model - as in someone you could be like (emulate), learn from, look up to, or admire (though they may not lead anything)? Or maybe both?
 

rosada

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I see the importance of finding and following a proper role model as one of the key teachings of the I Ching:
1.2 Dragon appearing in the field. It furthers one to see the great man.
 

Albatross

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Beware if you give yourself a long name like allegorical_being it will get shortened.
¡Ha, ha! Yes, I did not think in that, but there is no problem.
if you meant 'role model' which isn't clear.

I think that Rosada gave me a good equivalent. 'Role model' is really what I wanted to say.
As a matter of interest why are you asking this ?
The reason for asking this is because I am doing a exercise where I have to do a revision of my own ideals. What I really want? For example, if I say I want to be humble, an unknown person. Am I honest with myself or only am I hypocritical? But I really want power, fame, money and I do not take the risk because I am a coward.
 

moss elk

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If you are going to ask us to help you with your homework, at least tell us what the school or program is.

The reason for asking this is because I am doing a exercise where I have to do a revision of my own ideals.

Now that you have established what I was asking about...

I'll try asking again,
Where did you get this exercise from?
 
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Albatross

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Where did you get this exercise from?
Exercises, reflection, meditation. It is something that I did in a retreat, and now I am revisiting the exercises. In this retire the time of meditation was called exercises.
 
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moss elk

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I can see that you don't want to answer my question for some reason.
So, good luck.
 
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Albatross

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If you are going to ask us to help you with your homework, at least tell us what the school or program is.
When I came to the Yi, I came because my road directed to its voices. I try now like in the beginning to ask personal questions, personal concerns for me. This is not a obligation to me, or homework of some sort. If you consider my questions and myself like I am a lazy boy that join this community because I want that the people that is part of this group do my homework. That is not the reason, I shared my readings because some lines of the answer of the Yi are difficult to me, it is not clear to me the answer that Yi offered.
 
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Albatross

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You are in a state of transition. Don't be afraid to act on your own.

That answer really amazed me because when I read:

Resting on thorns and thistles.
He lies on a hard line.
Entering his house, not seeing his wife.
Not a good omen.

I thought that was some type of reprimend.
 

my_key

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Hi Allegorical_Being
From your posts it's clear that since your meditations and other experiences at the retreat you attended, this question has been something that you have spent time giving additional consideration to, in order to give yourself a insights on how to develop as a person. It's good that you recognise already the biases that you hold and have a clear picture of the qualities in a leader that you admire - 'someone asked me about my ideal leader and I answered with the figure of a open and dedicated person, liberal, etc.'. From the flavour of your posts I suspect that these are qualities that you would like your personal (internal) leader to have too.

How would I draw my personal leader? 47.3.4.5 to 46
Already by asking the question you did you are stepping towards understanding and owning those qualities you admire(46), however right now the noble part of you is not able to fully shine through (47). The Role Model (The Noble One) in a 47 situation models something like 'This is a time to recognise that I am caught in the swamp and that I will need to draw deeply on my own resources to climb out to dry, firm land'.

Consider again how you might sabotage your attempts to climb from the swamp. Also, perhaps you are missing that you already have aspects of the qualities you are looking for (3). Pay particular attention to how your life has taught you to feel, think and behave. Find the taps to turn that will slowly drain the swamp (4). The more you can drain the swamp, the more fresh water will be able flow in to loosen the thick mud, holding you down, and then to wash it away. Be, think and act as if you are already the Role Model you admire - sacrifice the old you. Fake it until you make it ! (5)

Like Rosada I see this as a transition time for you.

....and, of course, my interpretation of the divination may mean nothing like this at all to you.

Good Luck
 
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Trojina

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I see the importance of finding and following a proper role model as one of the key teachings of the I Ching:
1.2 Dragon appearing in the field. It furthers one to see the great man.


I don't think there are 'teachings' as such in Yi. I think we learn from it when we ask about our lives by the answers we get but Yi is not a collection of 'key teachings'. I'd regard the wish to find an actual outer role model an inferior wish for the small person or the small person within us. We do not develop our true potential in any sense just by copying others whom we imagine are perfect in some way because that is just projection, we don't know them.

What is to be followed and found is the great or noble person within one's own self . This is not done through aping others because they have their own dao, we cannot follow their dao but must follow our own. It maybe right for them to act in one way because for them it is natural, a part of their path. It is harmful to to try to tread someone else's path, that leads to inner alienation from the self although it may be helpful sometimes for our inner 'small person' to try to emulate another.

In the Image there are descriptions of what the noble one within us would do but that's not the same as going and taking some outer figure as a role model.



47.3.4.5 to 46

In order to connect with your ideal of a leader/role model at all you'd need to ditch false authorities/images you have in your head about this. These are depicted in the lines and in 47.3 you are being warned about not leaning on false things that don't support you, things that aren't real. I don't think your perceived quest for an idea role model is anything that serves or nourishes you.

The reason for asking this is because I am doing a exercise where I have to do a revision of my own ideals. What I really want? For example, if I say I want to be humble, an unknown person. Am I honest with myself or only am I hypocritical? But I really want power, fame, money and I do not take the risk because I am a coward
.

I see - I think the exercise itself is limiting by trying to capture in words a solid picture of an ideal, being humble or whatever. It's a restrictive exercise not allowing growth perhaps (46) because it's all resting on superficial descriptions of people. It does say in 47 that 'words are not believed'. I think you'd find you could do the exercise but the results won't really mean much because it all seems to rest on labels of people and people aren't one dimensional.
 
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Trojina

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I was thinking in that this week. What is the meaning of 'the great man' for the Yi?


There's much to be said on that but here is a Blog post of Hilary's that may help


For myself, having looked through my journals, I have come to the conclusion the 'great man' is the one in you who has an awareness of the greater direction of your life. The 'small man' can be someone lesser but it can be the part of you that tends to small concerns and doesn't see the big picture.

We need both to live and it became very apparent to me looking back over journals of over 30 years or more that the 'great woman' was the one who could see the overall picture, and the 'small woman' was writing about daily life and concerns. It's really easy for me in my journal to see 'great man' moments. They are moments of clarity, almost timeless, showing an insight into the whole of my life, the big pattern of it and these are very different to the one who is immersed in the daily round of life.

I think 'seeing the great man' might sometimes refer to a person but more often it's advice to get in touch with the one in you who has that wider view of the tides of your life. In considering your life from the stance of the 'noble' one you see from the noble one's view you don't need to pretend to be Gandhi or mother Theresa although if you find them inspiring well that's your thing but it's not the core of what your 'great man' is.
 
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Liselle

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Hilary also made a comment just yesterday in Reading Circle:
I've just been mulling over the differences between noble one and small people generally. It seems to be partly how much imagination they have.

She was contrasting "noble one," not "great person," but could the idea still apply?

(I think Hilary's said it's okay to quote what she says in Reading Circle or WikiWing - ?)
 

Albatross

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I think you'd find you could do the exercise but the results won't really mean much because it all seems to rest on labels of people and people aren't one dimensional.

I have strong feellings with this part because very deep in myself I feel that the role model that I try to find it is like you said one dimensional because in reality every person has lack, it is superfitial.

Thanks, the insight was very powerful.
 

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