"How is the relationship between you and I, Oracle?" 26.1.5 to 57

[nahword]

Am I using the I Ching all wrong? Would you stop if you got this response?

Hi, all! This is my first thread, and it's gonna be longer than I expected.

26.1 - Danger at hand, it furthers one to desist.
26.5 - The tusk of a gelded boar. Good fortune.

I admit, as I scroll through my journal of inquiries, the part of me that shines a warm glow isn't always what's expressed. A lot of the time, the question seems important to me at the time, but as I read back, it seems frivolous.
Further, I tend to ask about specific opportunities and use the I Ching as a metaphysical metal detector. I often try to assuage my anxieties and seek approval for my mistakes in the past ("What if I hadn't...?). I don't think the I Ching enjoys my company right now. I've found our relationship very soothing, though.

That said, I don't know much about Taoism beyond pop culture talking points and a few pages of reading. And I'm in a tumultuous time to be finding a thing like this! I have gained decent information about healthy directions for me to aim my energy. I think the oracle is acknowledging the correct questions I ask by telling me to come back when I express my wayward energies and study the path?

I do have a lot of things I need guidance on and no consultants around I can trust to understand my experiences or motivations. But if I were to trust the oracle's responses, I would stop seeking them.

Unless, of course, I was misunderstanding this response.
Hexagram 57 doesn't to me have an impact on decision making. It seems more like a feeling of comfort: something to enjoy, but not something to pursue or evade.
Does that mean that I shouldn't cling to it, and that I should find a safer way to build confidence in my decisions?

 

[rosada]

I think 26.1.5 - 57 says your relationship with the I Ching gradually improves as you
26.1 Calm down.
26.5 Pay attention.
57. Little by little with repeated use you come to understand the I Ching more deeply.

 

[Trojina]

Am I using the I Ching all wrong? Would you stop if you got this response?

Hi, all! This is my first thread, and it's gonna be longer than I expected.

26.1 - Danger at hand, it furthers one to desist.
26.5 - The tusk of a gelded boar. Good fortune

I do have a lot of things I need guidance on and no consultants around I can trust to understand my experiences or motivations. But if I were to trust the oracle's responses, I would stop seeking them.

Unless, of course, I was misunderstanding this response.
Hexagram 57 doesn't to me have an impact on decision making. It seems more like a feeling of comfort: something to enjoy, but not something to pursue or evade.
Does that mean that I shouldn't cling to it, and that I should find a safer way to build confidence in my decisions?

It's a good question, if I have it right you're slightly anxious you aren't using Yi the right way and weighing up how much other help you need outside of Yi?

Yi has limits in terms of the help it can offer and so I don't think anyone can solely rely on it alone. Although there will be times in life when one relies on it alone it's always important to consider what other help you need. For example I recently had counselling and there is absolutely no way I'd have come to the realisations I came to by using Yi alone. Often people seek medical help when they need a Dr, one has to recognise the limits of trying to understand all things through this ancient oracle.

Very interesting what you said about 57 and decisions and I think you're right. Not everyone talks to Yi in order to make decisions. People talk to Yi to reflect upon things or get another perspective. Yi is often sold as an aid to decision making and I don't think that's true, it's not really that mechanical it's a relationship not a 'tool' as some people call it. 57 is gradually allowing things to soak in gently, it wouldn't be to do with hard decision making. I think it's false to see Yi primarily as an aid to decision making because in the end it is only us that make the decision itself but Yi helps us to explore how we feel about things to do with the decision.

To your actual question.

'Am I using the I Ching all wrong?' 26.1.5>57

I think the 26 here might be Yi itself. It is after all a stored body of wisdom, a great resource. It's a bit like asking a library or an archive or a very wise learned person if you're using it all wrong. I think Yi is more alive than than a library but it is a resource.

Line 1 says

'There is danger.
Harvest in bringing it to an end.'

Momentum in the wrong direction? How might that apply? Do you ever feel you hurt yourself or torment yourself through Yi answers? It is possible but only you would know what that is.


Line 5 says
'Gelded pig's tusks.
Good fortune.'

Here a potential source of harm is disarmed. There's force here but it's under control.


I like 57 as the relating hexagram suggesting you are getting to know Yi gradually but are you trying to almost give yourself therapy or analyse yourself through Yi? The danger here would be as the interpreter if you try to analyse yourself you'll see the answers in the light of all your hangups. What you need is another person to reflect back to you otherwise you might tie yourself up a bit.

You said you were trying to analyse past events 'what if I hadn't' and I can see the danger there of self blame and anxiety.

I don't think you need to stop using Yi but be aware if you're trying to get insight into past relationships or behaviours you could make yourself feel worse when you interpret in the light of your pre-existing self judgements. Line 5 says the harm is taken out. Maybe you just need to make sure you aren't hurting yourself in any way.

 

[nahword]

It's a good question, if I have it right you're slightly anxious you aren't using Yi the right way and weighing up how much other help you need outside of Yi?

Yi has limits in terms of the help it can offer and so I don't think anyone can solely rely on it alone. Although there will be times in life when one relies on it alone it's always important to consider what other help you need. For example I recently had counselling and there is absolutely no way I'd have come to the realisations I came to by using Yi alone. Often people seek medical help when they need a Dr, one has to recognise the limits of trying to understand all things through this ancient oracle.

Very interesting what you said about 57 and decisions and I think you're right. Not everyone talks to Yi in order to make decisions. People talk to Yi to reflect upon things or get another perspective. Yi is often sold as an aid to decision making and I don't think that's true, it's not really that mechanical it's a relationship not a 'tool' as some people call it. 57 is gradually allowing things to soak in gently, it wouldn't be to do with hard decision making. I think it's false to see Yi primarily as an aid to decision making because in the end it is only us that make the decision itself but Yi helps us to explore how we feel about things to do with the decision.

To your actual question.

'Am I using the I Ching all wrong?' 26.1.5>57

I think the 26 here might be Yi itself. It is after all a stored body of wisdom, a great resource. It's a bit like asking a library or an archive or a very wise learned person if you're using it all wrong. I think Yi is more alive than than a library but it is a resource.

Line 1 says

'There is danger.
Harvest in bringing it to an end.'

Momentum in the wrong direction? How might that apply? Do you ever feel you hurt yourself or torment yourself through Yi answers? It is possible but only you would know what that is.


Line 5 says
'Gelded pig's tusks.
Good fortune.'

Here a potential source of harm is disarmed. There's force here but it's under control.


I like 57 as the relating hexagram suggesting you are getting to know Yi gradually but are you trying to almost give yourself therapy or analyse yourself through Yi? The danger here would be as the interpreter if you try to analyse yourself you'll see the answers in the light of all your hangups. What you need is another person to reflect back to you otherwise you might tie yourself up a bit.

You said you were trying to analyse past events 'what if I hadn't' and I can see the danger there of self blame and anxiety.

I don't think you need to stop using Yi but be aware if you're trying to get insight into past relationships or behaviours you could make yourself feel worse when you interpret in the light of your pre-existing self judgements. Line 5 says the harm is taken out. Maybe you just need to make sure you aren't hurting yourself in any way.

I suppose the motivations I have to consult the oracle fall between getting to know myself, making career decisions, and musings. If any of them were wasteful or dangerous, I would expect musings and career decisions. Musings because they aren't focused on growth, and career decisions because they effect other people. I suppose it also could be dangerous to ask questions about myself and my past if I find something I can't cope with.

There is also danger in that my next question was going to be, "Hey, Oracle, you still mad at me?!"


But if some people don't use the I ching for decision making, in what context can they use the insights they gain?

 

[Liselle]

Personally I think Yi can be very helpful with decisions, but as Trojina points out it's more subtle than that (57 again). You don't want a carnival fortunetelling atmosphere. Yi isn't just a fount of "Yes, do this!" and "No, don't do that!" answers although it can help guide you in directions by describing issues or suggesting ways to think about it.

 

[Trojina]

But if some people don't use the I ching for decision making, in what context can they use the insights they gain?

The context of their life, their feelings, their preoccupations. It doesn't always involve decision making but understanding, a change of perspective or reflection. A change of perspective, Yi helping one see things another way can help very much and doesn't have to involve decision making.

I haven't said Yi can't help with decision making, of course it can, but it's scope is far wider than that. Also Yi has a million ways of passing the decision itself back to you, it might show factors that arise if you go one way or the other but it's not going to make decisions for anyone as that's their job.

 

[Liselle]

But if I were to trust the oracle's responses, I would stop seeking them.

What did you mean by this? That doesn't sound right, I'm probably misunderstanding.

Speaking from personal experience, there will be times when you think you can't trust it, or even (!) that it's lying to you. But anything like that is probably a sign that Yi is:

• telling you something new that surprises you
• telling you something that doesn't fit with what you already know, and therefore...
• ...you should just keep the reading in mind as you watch what happens in the situation
• letting you know you've misunderstood a previous reading, and that's why the new one makes no sense
• changing the subject in some way, although be careful not to jump to that conclusion too fast
• addressing the topic you asked about, but not the literal question. For instance if you ask why something is happening, Yi might instead describe what you can do about it. Sometimes you have to sort of expand the scope.
• etcetera

You do get more used to things like this with experience.

 

[redoleander]

26.1 Helps you from heading in the wrong direction or balances you out somehow, reigning in your first instinct or your impulses perhaps.

26.5 As a result of integrating more understanding, time, wisdom, influence before acting or even just in considering, then you can take that initial energy and make it something truly great (and move away from harm)

57 The influence is subtle. Let it sink in over time. Maybe it helps you shift toward the subtle in general.

It could even be cautioning you that you need to slow down and learn to interpret over time, if 26.1 is genuinely about you and Yi

 

[nahword]

What did you mean by this? That doesn't sound right, I'm probably misunderstanding.

Speaking from personal experience, there will be times when you think you can't trust it, or even (!) that it's lying to you. But anything like that is probably a sign that Yi is:

• telling you something new that surprises you
• telling you something that doesn't fit with what you already know, and therefore...
• ...you should just keep the reading in mind as you watch what happens in the situation
• letting you know you've misunderstood a previous reading, and that's why the new one makes no sense
• changing the subject in some way, although be careful not to jump to that conclusion too fast
• addressing the topic you asked about, but not the literal question. For instance if you ask why something is happening, Yi might instead describe what you can do about it. Sometimes you have to sort of expand the scope.
• etcetera

You do get more used to things like this with experience.

Thanks for your thoughtful response. What I meant is that I interpreted this specific response as telling me to back off when I read that I should desist.

 

[Trojina]

I do have a lot of things I need guidance on and no consultants around I can trust to understand my experiences or motivations. But if I were to trust the oracle's responses, I would stop seeking them.

I thought this meant you'd stop seeking consultants if you trusted the oracle's responses which is in part why I answered as I did.

 

[rosada]

26.1.5 - 57 is not saying to back off.
It's saying continue to consult the I Ching but not forcefully as in asking one question after another without first understanding the answers you've already received. By restraining your impulse to ask more questions to get quick answers you will gradually - 57. - create a deeper connection.
Note how 57. comes between 56. The Wanderer and 58. The Joyful Conversation. This suggests there has to be a link between being an outsider and an insider. One doesn't just go from wanderer to trusted confident. 57 describes how that link is forged.

 

[marybluesky]

You asked how the relationship between the oracle & you is, and the I Ching says:
It stops you from unnecessary/ too harsh struggles, tame your dangerous urges & organize your energies. By using the oracle, you understand the things little by little.

 

[Liselle]

I thought this meant you'd stop seeking consultants if you trusted the oracle's responses which is in part why I answered as I did.

Oh.

 

[Trojina]

Hang on, why paper bag, seems I was wrong as in post 9 she explains to you what she means though I don't understand how that applies to the actual sentence you were asking about.

I don't think it was that clear it was my best guess.

 

[Liselle]

Well I thought it meant that as soon as you trust the oracle, you'd stop divining. 4th graders have better reading comprehension.

 

[Trojina]

It really wasn't clear what was meant.

 

[nahword]

Well I thought it meant that as soon as you trust the oracle, you'd stop divining. 4th graders have better reading comprehension.

I think that's the first time I wrote something with six or seven possible practical interpretations. It's more my vague writing style than your comprehension, I'm sure.

 

[Liselle]

Well, once Trojina kindly explained, I understood.

The internet is hard sometimes.