how quickly things can change 13.1.5>56

[oceangirl]

Further to this thread I started today https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?25144-Groping-and-a-naked-photo-request

I decided not to tell my friend and was just going to let things work out as they would....unfortunately (or fortunately?) it seems her husband decided to fess up about what happened as my friend sent me a message making excuses why I couldn't spend the weekend renovating with them....not that I was going to go anyway in leiu of the present circumstances.

Of course I don't know what's transpired between her and her husband but I'm again wondering about our friendship
What do I need to know about my friendship with her

Hexagram 13.1.5>56

This reading doesn't look too bad but not exactly great either, understandably I guess.
Looks like our friendship will survive once the dust settles.

 

[equinox]

I am really sorry that you have to make this experience -- it's the typical story of a society where offenders manage to get away (backed up by sexist structures) behaving like this, while the offended sits at home and agonises over how they can keep peace and save the situation for everyones best.
I don't say it's your duty to speak out, it's your decision, you weren't the agressor and it's your right to speak out as well as not to speak out. Personally my strategy would be "name it, shame it", because then hopefully you wouldn't feel so unjustly treated anymore and your friend knows a important truth about her husband. And if she closes her eyes still then, nobody can help her here. So if you felt the urge to tell, it would be your right. There is a saying of the German writer Ingeborg Bachmann which is so simple and true in my eyes:
"The truth is bearable to man" or "Man must put up with the truth", I don't know the perfect translation.

I agree, 13.5 suggests that you and your friend have a strong bond that may last, but your friendship will only work with an certain kind of superficialness right now (13.1), because keeping distance is the only way for you to deal with her in regard of this event, if you stick with your decision not to tell her about it.

 

[oceangirl]

Thanks blackmilk - I have a feeling the husband told her what happened....yes I'd tend to think I'll keep my distance for now and things will tick over at a superficial level for a period because she just won't want to deal with the truth of it all. She knows the truth about her husband, he's not very nice and quite mentally and emotionally abusive in a passive way. They've been together for over 30 years, she's in a comfort zone she's not prepared to step out of. I'd be surprised if she decided to let go of our friendship - I'm just not sure how it's all going to fit together again.

 

[Trojina]

Further to this thread I started today https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?25144-Groping-and-a-naked-photo-request

I decided not to tell my friend and was just going to let things work out as they would....unfortunately (or fortunately?) it seems her husband decided to fess up about what happened as my friend sent me a message making excuses why I couldn't spend the weekend renovating with them....not that I was going to go anyway in leiu of the present circumstances.

Of course I don't know what's transpired between her and her husband but I'm again wondering about our friendship
What do I need to know about my friendship with her

Hexagram 13.1.5>56

This reading doesn't look too bad but not exactly great either, understandably I guess.
Looks like our friendship will survive once the dust settles.

I just responded over on the other thread too. Yes I think your friendship will survive. I also think by 13.1 that you and her need to meet in neutral territory without him. Maybe a café or park or somewhere, your place ? Now you don't know what he's told her you need to get your version across and show her the text. She must be terribly embarrassed since her husband's actions humiliate her too.

After that, well I think the friendship will have to be between the two of you unless you feel his actions weren't that serious ? I only say that because well you know him better than me. Personally I'd have nothing more to do with him and alert him to the fact you do take it seriously, are keeping the texts to show the police if need be. Even having apologised he has shown he think of you in a sexual way which can't be comfortable if you were friends with them as a couple.

I think it's hard being friends as a single person, woman in particular, with couples anyway. One does tend to end up enacting, being the point of all insecurities in their relationship which is a pain in the backside. Who wants to get drawn in to all that, let them do it themselves.

The main thing is I think you can go on being friends with her. Let's hope she dumps him.

 

[equinox]

I can't know it, but you said that he is emotionally abusive, so I wouldn't count on that he told her a true story about what happened. Maybe he realised that it is likely that you tell her about his text messages and then he decided to do the flight forward and gave her a version of the event, that makes him looking less bad, like "she flirted with me agressively so I felt encouraged to text her" or "she sent me some signals..."
So better be careful that he doesn't try to play off her against you.
(P.S: Don't want to sound too apocalyptic or making you paranoid. Just double-check if there are doubts about his honesty here)

 

[oceangirl]

I just responded over on the other thread too. Yes I think your friendship will survive. I also think by 13.1 that you and her need to meet in neutral territory without him. Maybe a café or park or somewhere, your place ? Now you don't know what he's told her you need to get your version across and show her the text. She must be terribly embarrassed since her husband's actions humiliate her too.

After that, well I think the friendship will have to be between the two of you unless you feel his actions weren't that serious ? I only say that because well you know him better than me. Personally I'd have nothing more to do with him and alert him to the fact you do take it seriously, are keeping the texts to show the police if need be. Even having apologised he has shown he think of you in a sexual way which can't be comfortable if you were friends with them as a couple.

I think it's hard being friends as a single person, woman in particular, with couples anyway. One does tend to end up enacting, being the point of all insecurities in their relationship which is a pain in the backside. Who wants to get drawn in to all that, let them do it themselves.

The main thing is I think you can go on being friends with her. Let's hope she dumps him.

Thanks for responding to both threads - it's great when someone does seem to understand at such a level and doesn't try to make out it's not a serious breach of friendship.....Yes I think the friendship with her will survive but it will take time for the chips to find their resting place.
I don't think I'll be spending anytime with them as a couple ever again, the damage has been done, more than once and I can no longer forgive and forget even for her.
Yes it humiliating for her because it also shows her the truth of what she's putting up with. Although she's a very loved person by so many she told me recently noone but me ever takes the time to visit her - I wonder why??!!!

 

[oceangirl]

I can't know it, but you said that he is emotionally abusive, so I wouldn't count on that he told her a true story about what happened. Maybe he realised that it is likely that you tell her about his text messages and then he decided to do the flight forward and gave her a version of the event, that makes him looking less bad, like "she flirted with me agressively so I felt encouraged to text her" or "she sent me some signals..."
So better be careful that he doesn't try to play off her against you.
(P.S: Don't want to sound too apocalyptic or making you paranoid. Just double-check if there are doubts about his honesty here)

Yes possibly but she was there the whole time and she knows me so she knows that I would never, ever flirt with him. She also knows, despite the outer appearance that I don't like him as a person really.
I'm keeping the text messages as proof unless and until and will no longer spend anytime in his company.

 

[rosada]

What you need to know about your friendship with her:

56. Image:
The superior man is clear minded and cautious in imposing penalties and protracts no lawsuits.

If this line is referring to your friend I think this is saying she does not want to make a big deal out of this, likewise if it is referring to you. There seems to be a strong desire to deal with the incident and move on. So, how should you deal with it?

13.1 Fellowship at the gate. No blame.
Seems to say that you could just not go there, not discuss the event at all. No blame in that although it does suggest your friendship becomes rather generic, superficial. This could also be suggesting that if you do decide to discuss what happened you could start out by saying, "First of all I want you to know I'm not blaming anybody for anything, I just want you to know what happened because you are my friend and I think it's important you know this."

13.5 says "Men bound in fellowship first weep and lament, but afterward they laugh."
I don't think you should interpret this as advice that you can say nothing and your friendship will somehow be strong and survive. I think it's saying for you to have a friendship more significant than acquaintances just standing around outside the gate, you've got to have a real heart-to-heart with her and tell her the whole story. The line is THEN very reassuring for the friendship continuing.

You do not mention why you suspect your friend's husband confessed other than the fact that she disinvited you to an intended get together. That is really weird. I would have thought she would have called you and expressed regret and apologized for her husband's borish behavior andreassured you that if he ever did anything like this again you should tell her immediately and she would deal with him. The fact that she didn't mention it makes me think either he didn't confess at all or, as black milk suggests, he put a spin on the story that makes you look bad, or worse this is how she deals with his nonsense.

Anyway, I think 13.1.5 - 56 is saying either you talk about it as 13.5 recommends and it gets handle so we all 56. Move on, or you don't talk about it and then I think 56 means you leave the friendship.

Have you responded to her dis-inviting you yet? I think you should and use it as an opportunity to address the problem. Send her an email saying something like, "Yeah, I agree it's not a good idea for me to spend the weekend with you after Fred's drinking and sending me that ridiculous email. Maybe when things calm down a bit we can all sit down and have a chat. I'd like him to get it once and for all that you and I don't think this is funny!!!" In other words, just assume he has told her - if he hasn't and this is the first she's heard of it - oh well, she needs to find out sometime - and then offer this solution. You are wanting to make a federal case out of it, you just want it to stop. By suggesting the three of you sit down together you make it easier to for all of you to admit this happened and change the future.

Astrologically we just had a new moon in Libra opposing Uranus. Libra is the sign of partnerships and agreements, Uranus is the planet ruling freedom and independence. It means the next four weeks are going to be about renegotiating our contracts, treaties and commitments.

 

[oceangirl]

Thanks Rosada - I'm unsure how I feel about it all really at this stage - there are very personal changes going on for me at this time at a deep level and I believe this is incident enhances part of the shift for me. I love reading your blog spot so this weeks was quite pertinent for me where you've said 'In our personal lives there will probably be a lot of folks wanting to make changes too. Partnerships that aren't working will be abandoned. Even friendships that are solid will be finding adjustments need to be made'. Interestingly enough this particular incident happened on Thursday of the New Moon.

 

[equinox]

One problem I see here is that your friend has been with a man who is emotionally abusive to her for 30 years now. It is therefore obvious that she has developed strategies to stage her own reality so that she can be together with him without constantly questioning the relationship fundamentally. (in some cases, she certainly does this nevertheless)
This means that she is constantly fooling herself, or/and is willing to believe his lies.
The problem with people who expose themselves to such situations, is that they don't flinch from dragging other people into their misery and it looks like your friend is doing this as well from time to time, even if she loves you and doesn't want this.
It may be that he told her a lie about the evening that makes you look bad and therefore you should not come, but it can also simply be the case that she once again closes her eyes and takes the line of least resistance to avoid trouble and in this case it means to disinvite you, simply to avoid possible problems. However, in triangles like this you will always end up being the “54 marrying maiden”, to say it I-chingish. So its's only wise, that you leave this triangle situation and refuse to see her when he is also around. You want to keep the friendhip, which is understandable, because after all she still seems to give you a lot and you have this great 13.5 bond.
And because you like her so much, you try to protect her from ugly events, also because she has a tough time with her sister dying on cancer, how horrible. Of course, you don't want to make her life harder by confronting her. So I understand that this is a very sensitive case now. And it's indeed unlikely that she will leave him "just" because of this, I guess there were plenty cases she should have left in the past 30 years and she didn't. But if you really want to be there for her profoundly it would be better to be absolutely honest with her in general, even if it hurts. (Of course, timing and sensitivity is important here.)

Because otherwise you don't really help her, you rather help her to keeping up an alternative reality that may be comforting for a moment but is a nightmare on the long run. (30 years!) If I were you I would stay away from him, as you intend to do anyways. I always would be honest with her and tell her, that it is not acceptable for you to be involved in sick dynamics. If you are honest with her also when the truth is ugly, you give her a better chance to refrain from dragging you into these sick dynamics. At the same time its important to make clear, that you still like her a lot and would always be there for her if she needs somebody to talk or even plans to leave him -- which is unlikely, but you never know. And if you can't help her, than at least you practise self-love, because it's not healthy for you to be tossed around in order to support others keeping up their dysfunctional relationships. Maybe this reads like I am judging your friend, but I don't -- I think she is suffering a lot in the whole situation and I feel sorry for her. But I think in general and especially in regard of your history and your efforts on healing traumas it is important for you to allow nobody and no situation to force you denying unjustices that happenend to you, if you feel the urge to talk about it. I wish you all the best and believe you will solve it.

 

[oceangirl]

Thanks blackmilk - at this stage I don't have the capacity to deal with it on any level so I'm just staying away from both of them. On Tuesday I will be starting intense therapy for sexual crimes commited towards me when I was a teenager - I have appointments every Tuesday for the next 4-5 weeks. I'm sure this is going to bring up a whole lot more than just those moments in time so I've no capacity for anyone else's stuff.
I remember a woman telling me a long time ago after she'd had a fall out with her best friend that she will deal with it when she's ready no matter how long that takes - that made me realise some things just cannot be fixed straight away if at all.

 

[equinox]

I remember a woman telling me a long time ago after she'd had a fall out with her best friend that she will deal with it when she's ready no matter how long that takes - that made me realise some things just cannot be fixed straight away if at all.

Sound like a good way to deal with it. I wish you all the best.

 

[oceangirl]

I found out today that she actually doesn't know about the text message and I thought maybe I should tell her but the moment that could have happened slipped away.
So now after thinking about it some more I've decided to continue keeping this matter to myself and see if he sends anymore messages sexually harassing me because this is the second time I've asked him to stop doing it but if he continues then this is going to become something else ie. a police matter. Certainly I don't want this but perhaps she and he will see the seriousness of his behaviour.

I've asked what is the likelihood he will continue to keep up this sexual harassment

Hexagram 27.6>24
This looks to me like he will continue with this harassment.

 

[equinox]

Hm. Can't say from that if he will go on.To me 27.6<24 is maybe referring to you and your attitude to think of how you can make a wise decision doing the best, for you and for others (your friend?)
I think you will are on the way finding a solution coping with the matter in a way that is acceptable for your inner self (24) I find you should talk about it with your therapist, since she or he will have experience in dealing with situations like that.

 

[oceangirl]

Yes fair enough - I looked at it closer after I posted it and agree with what you're saying...yes it will be the first thing I bring up tomorrow. Thanks for being kind enough to always respond especially with this present situation.

 

[oceangirl]

Well I started the therapy yesterday and as awful as it is to recall such things it's so wonderfully releasing - he does it with EMDR therapy - super interesting so will see how I go mentally and emotionally.
After the session I thought I just need to tell her about the text messages, get it all out in the open, well out of me from holding onto the thoughts that surround her not knowing and how to deal with her phone calls and texts as per usual in our friendship when I just don't want to respond.
But before I could do that I received a text from her partner asking if I'd told her because if not he was going to tell her when she got home from work that day (yesterday).....hmmm

 

[rosada]

Have you responded to that text? If not i suggest you not answer it. That's very typical behavior. Anything to get a response out of you. I doubt he will tell her but then again, he may. But you don't need to discuss it with him. You don't need to discuss anything with him.

 

[oceangirl]

No I didn't respond because as you said I don't have to or need to discuss anything with him...finally I'm becoming empowered in myself

 

[oceangirl]

Have you responded to that text? If not i suggest you not answer it. That's very typical behavior. Anything to get a response out of you. I doubt he will tell her but then again, he may. But you don't need to discuss it with him. You don't need to discuss anything with him.

Spot on - she rang me today and spoke as if nothing had happened, which in her World it had not because she didn't know....once I told her and sent her the conversation she just fell apart physically and emotionally. Gosh she's just nursed and lost her sister from cancer amongst other things - WTH is wrong with her partner.....I've no words, honestly!

 

[equinox]

Did you talk to your therapist, if yes, what did he say?
And yes, good that you didn't respond to him.

 

[equinox]

Did you talk to your therapist, and if, what did he say?
And yes, good that you didn't respond to him.

 

[oceangirl]

Did you talk to your therapist, and if, what did he say?
And yes, good that you didn't respond to him.

He reminded that the first incident with my friends partner was assault not just harassment and just the whys and wherefores of staying friends with my gf. Good to get the perspective from a person who's not emotionally attached to the outcome.