...life can be translucent

Menu

How to make it easier to share....54.2 > 51

JoeCampbell

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jul 29, 2010
Messages
92
Reaction score
6
Dear All

My girlfriend lives in very tight financial circumstances, and in another country, a poorer one than mine. I am working and my circumstances could not be described as tight (at least not currently!), and I want to be able to give of what I have. But it is enormously difficult for her to recieve - the current example is that we both want to go on holiday later this year and I can easily pay for both of us, but she would rather wait another year, save what she can and then contribute her 50%.

I can certainly respect this but I would prefer it if she could "just" take/share what it is that I have. So I asked "what can I do to make it easier for X to share what it is I have to give?" and I got 54.2 > 51.

I can find no other similar questions and/or parallel responses to this constellation in the Forum. And I can make no sense of the reading...Lise's 54 is very beautiful but too complex for me....something about just being generous and letting it grow??

Any insights would be very much appreciated. Thank you
 

Tim K

visitor
Joined
Nov 29, 2013
Messages
1,327
Reaction score
96
Some people just can't ask for help, they want to prove to others that 'I can do it by myself, dammit!'.
Usually they are just shy (low self-esteem/ tough parents) and afraid to admit that they need someone to help them. It's unimaginable for them to receive help because then they will feel indebted to the person who helped them (54 Inferior position).

So, Yi is saying: She's like one-eyed woman, that still wants to go on her own, and you need to Strike/Shock her out of this state. Open her second eye.

Wilhelm, hex 51:
The hexagram Chên represents the eldest son, who seizes rule with energy and power. A yang line develops below two yin lines and presses upward forcibly.

When a man has learned within his heart what fear and trembling mean
(when you have understood her fears), he is safeguarded against any terror produced by outside influences. Let the thunder roll and spread terror a hundred miles around: he remains so composed and reverent in spirit that the sacrificial rite is not interrupted. This is the spirit that must animate leaders and rulers of men-a profound inner seriousness from which all terrors glance off harmlessly.

Swoop in and save the day, in the end she will be glad that you did.

p.s. I also did a tarot reading:
style="width: 600px" align="center"
|-
|
w2s.gif

|
p5s.gif

|
w6s.gif

|-
| You hold the power
| She is trying to ignore it
| You swoop in
 
Last edited:

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
So, Yi is saying: She's like one-eyed woman, that still wants to go on her own, and you need to Strike/Shock her out of this state. Open her second eye.


:confused: don't agree with that. The woman keeps to her inner truth she doesn't need striking at by anyone.

I think Joe it is you who are in the 54 situation here. You aren't in control, you can't make her do anything. She is being true to herself.

This line doesn't counsel force or violence as if you the leader as Ash suggests.


The line pathway is very gradual and gentle

54.2
51.2
51.5
53.5


So I don't think you can persuade her I think you have no choice but to let her take her time. Perhaps she will come to accept by herself anyway. There is no hint IMO that you need to be forcing her to open her other eye.
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
Swoop in and save the day, in the end she will be glad that you did.

p.s. I also did a tarot reading:


You hold the power She is trying to ignore it You swoop in

Last edited by ashteroid; Today at 05:32 PM.



He got 54 and you reckon he holds the power to force her to do what she doesn't want to ?

Whichever way you look at it 54.2 doesn't mean 'go in and tread all over her like what she decides doesn't matter'


The trouble is when you hang on to every word of Wilhelm's commentary you also take on his outdated attitudes to women. I'd say Joe was actually the powerless one here. He got the 54 about trying to make someone do what he can't make them do. Joe is not in a position to force anything. He is in the role of the Marrying Maiden.
 
Last edited:

JoeCampbell

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jul 29, 2010
Messages
92
Reaction score
6
Thank you both - interesting interpretations and I have to say that I favour Trojan's here. This is the same girlfriend I have posted about previously, there's been more than enough violence and pressure of various sorts in her life, so I won't be doing that.
Guess I'll take it easy, try and lead by example or something....
 

Tim K

visitor
Joined
Nov 29, 2013
Messages
1,327
Reaction score
96
Trojan horsey, don't take me the wrong way, I respect women, and I don't see where Wilhelm says otherwise in 54.2.

In fact he talks about one eyed man.
Nine in the second place means:
A one-eyed man who is able to see.
The perseverance of a solitary man furthers.

Man and wife ought to work together like a pair of eyes. Here the girl is
left behind in loneliness;


Yes at first I also have thought about 54 representing him, but then 51 doesn't make sense at all.
So I looked at Huang's commentary, he says 'Whatever has prevented you from seeing things clearly has been removed'. And Wilhelm says don't leave her alone, work (go to the holiday) together.

'go in and tread all over her like what she decides doesn't matter'
He said they both want to go... :confused:

I have two grandmothers, a mom and a elder sister. And through them I've learned that sometimes you need to take a bull by its horns and push. Because they wouldn't do it by themselves.
My grandma still thanks me for pushing her a little to buy a new raincoat, because she is too shy to buy new clothes herself, or she will buy it and then it will be just hanging in the wardrobe for a month.

I had to push my sister to take care of her teeth, and she was also very happy with that.
Same thing with mom, I helped her with buying a new notebook and a tablet.
One thing I still don't dare to do is to buy new electric cooker for my grandma. Her wrists are weak and it's hard and painful for her to turn the knobs of a 30 year old cooker (made in USSR), but she still resists my initiative.

I remember being pushed out of my comfort zone myself, in a swimming pool when i was 4, the instructor just grabbed me and thrown me into the pool and I learned how to swim :)
 
Last edited:
B

blue_angel

Guest
I really like Tuck Chang's site. He says "don't fight over power and wealth". What I gather from other sites is your very consistent presence in her life is what's important. Although you may not be together phyically, you still keep in touch consistently and are supportive and generous. So maybe she will come to the decision of allowing you to help in
her own time.

For me, what works is to look at the hexagrams as the whole of the situation, and the line as the action I need to take. When there's more than one line, sometimes the first line will show an action I have already taken, and the following line will show what action I need to take now. Not saying that is the right way or how it "always" works.

So yes, I agree with Trojan as well.

Blue_Angel
 
B

blue_angel

Guest
Ashteroid, I can also see what you're saying but I don't think its the whole of the answer. If I include some of what you say and Wilhelm with the other translations, looks to me like "be persistent in offering your generosity but don't have any expectation for change." Another words, maybe your persistence will pay off, maybe it won't, but don't be forceful and certainly don't allow it to become a fight. Its a subtle, gentle, (hermit) like persistence. I do see 54, as you having to be second, or submissive in her decision. Or I guess you can also see 54 as you assisting her. 51, I'm not sure how that fits in. Were you a bit shocked she wouldn't take your help? That would give you your 51. Or 51 could be saying if you do end up arguing and fighting over money, then you end up with 51 a small fight, shock, but its not detrimental. You still end up laughing and come to some sort of agreement.

Either way... I feel the line says as Tuck Chang has it "don't fight over money and power." Seems to fit perfectly to me.

Blue_Angel
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
Trojan horsey, don't take me the wrong way, I respect women, and I don't see where Wilhelm says otherwise in 54.2.

In fact he talks about one eyed man.
Nine in the second place means:
A one-eyed man who is able to see.
The perseverance of a solitary man furthers.

Man and wife ought to work together like a pair of eyes. Here the girl is
left behind in loneliness;


Yes at first I also have thought about 54 representing him, but then 51 doesn't make sense at all.
So I looked at Huang's commentary, he says 'Whatever has prevented you from seeing things clearly has been removed'. And Wilhelm says don't leave her alone, work (go to the holiday) together.

Hmmm but you see the bit I underlined is just Wilhelms commentary, his idea about what it means. She's going her way as if alone but that's not shown as a bad thing. Infact her constancy here leads to good fortune. She has integrity. If you read Hilary's commentary for example the idea here is to be self sufficient, which is what she is trying to be. It's not a mistake and it may be that she actually eventually strengthens the relationship this way in the end. You don't need to search hard for 51 to fit in IMO, especially with only one line moving. Wilhelm brings the idea a woman cannot be a hermit....she should be with a man. That's his idea not the I Ching exactly.

So Yi isn't saying he needs to strike or shock her out of this state, quite the reverse. I'm not implying you are sexist I'm only saying beware with some of Wilhelm's commentary that what you take as the I Ching can just be a pretty skewed interpretation, his view of how the world is or should be.


I thought your interpretation below departed from the message Yi gave possibly because sometimes you are taking Wilhelms commentary as if it were the I Ching itself.


So, Yi is saying: She's like one-eyed woman, that still wants to go on her own, and you need to Strike/Shock her out of this state. Open her second eye.

Wilhelm, hex 51:
The hexagram Chên represents the eldest son, who seizes rule with energy and power. A yang line develops below two yin lines and presses upward forcibly.

When a man has learned within his heart what fear and trembling mean (when you have understood her fears), he is safeguarded against any terror produced by outside influences. Let the thunder roll and spread terror a hundred miles around: he remains so composed and reverent in spirit that the sacrificial rite is not interrupted. This is the spirit that must animate leaders and rulers of men-a profound inner seriousness from which all terrors glance off harmlessly.


Let me compare for example the translation and commentary From Hilary's book for 54.2

"With one eye, can see.
A hermit's constancy bears fruit"
that's all of what Yi itself says, the translation. Anything added to that is pretty much someone's thought about the meaning. ( Useful but not necessarily valid.)

Some of Hilary's commentary on that, what she thinks that might mean is

"It is better to be like the hermit, self sufficient, not attempting to change the situation, but staying quietly loyal to your own insight. The hermit has inner independence; she is the same person whether or not anyone is watching. "


Come to think of it since Joe asked what he could do maybe the advice is he must act like this hermit in line 2. It's true one can feel abandoned in line 2 but that doesn't mean one needs to seek another out. He is in in secondary position like the marrying maiden, he has to wait for her decision. It's easy to get side tracked into thinking 54.2 is about her...because it is a woman in line 2 but he did ask about himself. Genders are interchangeable in Yi, men can be the 'wife' and so on so he certainly might be the marrying maiden himself.

In this reading it's hard to see if 54.2 is him or her....either way being quiet and holding one's own counsel seems the way forward not attempts to shock someone. The 51 here might be the realisation that's/he is alone . In the fan yao he climbs the 9 hills.

ps note Yi says 'with one eye, can see'....that doesn't imply someone must come and force the other open. S/he can still see.
 
Last edited:

Tim K

visitor
Joined
Nov 29, 2013
Messages
1,327
Reaction score
96
I didn't put any importance to the sexes mentioned at all. If Joe was Joanna and she was a man I would say the same thing. And I use many commentaries to get the idea, but I try to quote only one that fits best to my answer.

My focus was on their get together in the end of the year that they both want. And if Joe would buy tickets and make reservations and then present it to her, saying, 'Dear, I love you with all my heart, I know it's difficult for you to accept my help, but can we go this year? why wait another year to be together?

If you insist, you can return 50% to me later'.

And this unexpected gift can push her in the right direction of being more receptive to help, because the decision is already made, she doesn't have to decide. They will enjoy the trip, and she will see that it's not that scary.
 
G

goddessliss

Guest
I'm not usually one to say anything other than what the readings refer to but I do feel ash that, as I was reading this whole thread, I thought how sexist you sounded and you have only referred to helping the females in your family.

By buying the tickets and making reservations you are taking away her free will - would it not be better to reach some sort of compromise, if possible, before taking any further action? - Liss
 

Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom

Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).

Top