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How will the senate vote? 43.5 - 34.

rosada

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How will the senate vote in the impeachment trial?
Deciding - Standing Firm.
Nothing changes?
 

Liselle

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Interesting. Wonder if "high ground" in this line could possibly mean anything like what we mean when we say "take the high road"? Or a higher perspective? Or - per Crouch - in a battle it's good to control the high ground, because it's "the place from which your undertaking can be launched." He finishes his sentence with, "and you haven't had the high ground for some time." That'd remind me of the Democrats controlling the Senate, if 50 + 1 meant anything in an impeachment trial. As far as I know it means nothing.

"Move to the centre, no mistake" (Hilary) is intriguing, as if they'll find some middle ground. I think I vaguely heard someone say on a podcast this morning that there might be something they could do without actually convicting. That might be a "center" sort of compromise. (Unfortunately I was busy, so instead of making a point to remember what had been said and where, I sort of vaguely thought, "Interesting" and promptly forgot it.)

Another theory / way of moving towards a center might be what will McConnell do. If he (a) decides what happened on Jan. 6th can't be allowed to slide, and/or (b) is sufficiently terrified about big corporate donors abandoning the Republican party, and/or (c) thinks it will be better overall if they move decisively away from Trump - if McConnell goes, maybe enough others will follow. Could McConnell be the 34, someone with power, influence, and courage who could say, yes, this amaranth (a difficult decision to convict) is worth going after?

I also heard a commentator say if the vote could be anonymous, in his/her opinion conviction would be a lot more likely - implying that enough good sense might be there, if they can get backbone infusions (34?).
 
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breakmov

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It seems to me that Biden and the current senate are going to respect the current constitution at all costs.
- I think it is an intrinsic quality of this administration Biden! And even if this quality, for some reason, was in question the current administration/senate would still have to respect it even if it was a "respect the constitution" as a counterpoint to the previous administration.
I imagine something like this:


- Vote NO to impeachment because it clashes with the current law.
- Vote on changes to the constitution so that in the future something like what happened will not happen again.

43.5>34 fits this senario perfectly.

breakmov
 

rosada

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I understand that some how the Senate can vote to not impeach and yet still make it that he cannot hold public office again. That sounds like a middle ground as in "Centered action, no mistake."
 

Liselle

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It might also be that Yi can't say yet.

Q: "How will they vote?"
A: "No idea! They're all busy deciding (43) whether they're brave enough (34) to go after it (line 5)!"

Or something.



Breakmov, amending the constitution is a long, complicated process that involves many things including ratification by the states. The Senate can't do it by itself. So far I haven't heard anyone propose any amendments to do with this.
 

breakmov

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Yes Rosada ,something has to be done, "nobody wants" to go through another "trump situation". But doing this without pinching/stretching the current constitution seems to me to be the factor to consider.
One can guess a great struggle in that senate, but how to resolve legally, according to the constitution, if there is a vacuum in the law about this whole surreal situation?
Can you imagine the political use that trump will make if the current administration/senate fall in the temptation to stretch the current constitution to prevent him from returning?

A populist like trump would take advantage of any flaw, or something less clear, in this trial to victimize himself.
Having a "Centered action, no mistake," I believe, will be the main goal in that trial.




Liselle, yes I also believe it would be something "colossal" to put into practice in the short term but the amendment to the constitution will be something that "will have" to be done before the next elections, for the sake of the future of the quality of that democracy, I think.

We will see how the trial in the world's largest democracy will proceed.

breakmov
 
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diamanda

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How will the senate vote? 43.5 > 34
They'll try very hard to get rid of him, but they won't manage?
I hope I'm wrong as he's too dangerous.
 

Viru10

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Curious how this line plays out. When I get it I'm never quite sure what to think, since so many commentaries vary on its meaning.

34's image fits here. Following ritual or precedent. No president has been removed before so I'm not sure he'll be removed here. But there may be other precedent they can act on.
 

Liselle

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34's image fits here. Following ritual or precedent.
Yes, could well be that each party will stand its party-line ground, with maybe a few Republicans breaking ranks but not enough to do anything.

I'm hoping that at least we'll be able to learn something about 43.5 from this when it's over. I never understand it either, the pesky thing, and this is after I got it for a situation with a very clear-cut outcome that I babbled on about ridiculously in WikiWing. :hissy:
 

IrfanK

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I understand that some how the Senate can vote to not impeach and yet still make it that he cannot hold public office again. That sounds like a middle ground as in "Centered action, no mistake."
From what my former boss, a keen participant-observer in American government matters, said, Section 3 of the 14th Amendment has a specific provision about preventing public officials involved in insurrection from holding office, and it doesn't require an impeachment or super majority (a simple majority will do). I googled around to get my facts straight and came up with this:

https://bangordailynews.com/2021/01...ent-the-constitutions-answer-to-insurrection/

The key passage is as follows:

“No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.”
 

rosada

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What will be the result of the impeachment trial?
58.1.4.5 - 7

I thought I'd tack this question on to this thread just to keep discussions on the topic all together.
 
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rosada

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I wasn't so much asking what the actual vote would be but more I was wanting the IC's view of what would be the repercussions of this whole theatrical.
I think it's describing how getting the facts out in the open may lead some Trump supporters to question their loyalty.

58.
Opening, creative success. Constancy bears fruit.
A noble one joins with friends to speak and practice together.

I see this as a description of the senators and the trial. (Not sure they are all "friends" though..)
Perhaps it only refers to Trump supporters.

58.1
Responsive opening, good fortune.

This line says people are willing to speak honestly and listen with open minds.
--
Uh, not sure the I Ching is watching the same trial we are... Or maybe IC is saying this is what is needed..

58.4
Negotiating opening, not yet at rest. Containing the affliction means rejoicing.
--
Well I know they went through a lot of negotiating deciding just what the Impeachment charges should be based on and maybe also this is a reference to the desire to get this trial over with in hopes to get on with healing. Could also be saying the trial is bringing things to light and these discussions and seeing what actually happened, how well the attack had been planned and rehearsed is necessary. Getting the truth out even if it doesn't lead to impeachment.

58.5
Trusting in stripping away, there is danger.
--
Perhaps seeing the evidence laid out will lead some Trump fans to reconsider their loyalty.

7. Indignation against the status quo then you begin to organize in a way to change it. Crowds of people, energies and resources gather around that original focal point of grievance. The emotions that began as mere reactive indignation become an inner reserve of strength.
A noble one accepts the people and gathers together crowds. - Hilary.

I see this a s a reference to Trump and his "army" of rioters. Or could be a reference just to the whole country, the "Army" of citizens.

58.1 Points to truth coming out in the open. 58. Points to a lot of haggling over what it all means. 58.5 Sounds like when the truth comes out Trump's supporters become even more stubborn and dangerous.

58 meaning discussions and 7 meaning people collecting to form an army makes me think the debate wont end with the jury verdict.
 
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rosada

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Just for the record...

Will Trump run again in 2024?
64.3.4 - 18.
 

rosada

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Hmm... I don't know what to make of this. Maybe 18 is a reference to him feeling the election was stolen and running again would be a chance to correct the error. 64. Describes a sort of time out period when the old ways have been completed and the new way yet to begin. So 64.4 describing defeat and 64.5 success? Sounds more like this last election and the debate over the votes.
 

moss elk

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He doesn't believe the election was stolen, only his thralls do, thanks to his hypnotism.
He knows when he is lying.
That is what makes him extraordinarily evil.
 
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diamanda

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Will Trump run again in 2024?
64.3.4 > 18

He will test the waters, and fight (oh no...), but in the end he won't be able to?
He's an abomination, it's a horrendous hit on democracy that he was acquitted.
I really hope he never gets to run again.
 

rosada

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Moss Elk's comment that Trump doesn't believe the election was stolen inspired me to ask..

What does Trump believe about the 2020 election?

15. Integrity.

Whoa! I think you're right Moss!
 

Liselle

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Just for the record...

Will Trump run again in 2024?
64.3.4 - 18.
I don't know what to make of the lines, either, but the hexagrams sound like what McConnell said after the Senate trial was over. That this isn't over yet and he hasn't gotten away with anything yet.

(His explanation of why, nonetheless, he voted to acquit:
1613406676877.png )


What will be the result of the impeachment trial?
58.1.4.5 - 7
For what it's worth, that exact reading is the example Hilary used in her Change Patterns course (in the Change Circle library).
 

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